.
Mike,
.
Do you make it down to Florida fairly often on business and do you ever make it down to Miami ?
.
Rgds,
Larry
.

cello April 17, 2005 07:47

Mike, Thanks for sharing your experience with us. it really helps me a lot to think and choose my future amp, and speakers.

Best
Blueguitar.

rubyjunior April 17, 2005 03:19

Mejames, a few years back i had spoken to Guy about changing the rca outputs on the RVC to XLR.....and at the time he said there wasn't room. thanks for the update on his thinking.

if i were to bi-amp with Tenors there would be no problem. but with the DarTZeel there is a problem. i will attempt to explain it.

the latest version of the DarTZeel (version B) has a switch to switch DC compensation in and out. it sounds better to me with this switched out (no negative feedback). the way that the Placette implements it's balanced volume control has an impedence miss-match with the DarTZeel when the DarTzeel is not running negative feedback. basically, i get a slight buzz after a few minutes from some unstable impedence (this is beyond the limit of my technical ability to explain).

if i use a single ended cable then there is not a problem.

my apologizes for not having a deeper understanding of why this happens.....but it does happen.

therefore if i decide to bi-amp with the DarTZeel i'll either need to go single ended version of the RVC or use something other than the Placette (new DarTZeel preamp is a definite possibility).

as i move closer to my Holy Grail things seem to get curiouser and curiouser.

mikelavigne April 16, 2005 23:18

Mike Guy can fit another balanced output into your placette rvc rather easily he explained to me previously something about hard wiring the power supply cable replacing its plug in leaving the space for the second balanced outputs

mejames April 16, 2005 20:04

Blueguitar; sorry, i didn't respond to your first question.

as i sit here listening to the Kharmas and a single DarTZeel i get absolutely no sense of lack of dynamics, or of any distress or hardness at peaks.....even in my big room. my previous smaller room did give me a certain dynamic immediacy that i don't quite get now; but that is a matter of how any system sounds in a small space and partially just a 'feeling'.

that is not to say that more power (with the Tenor 300 watt Hybrids or 2 DarTZeels) wouldn't have any benefits......just that there is no sense of anything missing (other than the bottom octave....but that is a speaker/room issue).

once the VR9's arrive and i experience what they can do in this room i will have a whole different context......which may bring me to feel differently about what i am currently hearing.

IMHO a single DarTZeel is more than enough for these 90db, 4 ohm Kharmas.

mikelavigne April 16, 2005 15:27

hi Blueguitar;

no, i'm not able to make it to NYC.....i was just in Florida on business this week and it's just too far for me at this time.

i do think that many would feel the ML2.1 can fully develope the Kharma performance. until/unless i am able to actually live with the ML2.1 i would be hesitant to comment too much. it would come down to taste, sonic priorities, and room size.

based on my limited exposure to the ML2 and ML2.1 and other Lamm amps i have spent more time with.....i prefer the more lively and energised presentation (my personal viewpoint) of the Tenor and DarTZeel. i have not had any Lamm amps in my room to live with for extended periods of time but have listened to them many many times on very familiar gear.

that said; i believe the Kharma/Lamm combination is one of the very best sounding i have heard.....just not my personal favorite.

i hope you are able to find your personal 'right' amp......please let me/us know what you find.

mikelavigne April 16, 2005 15:05

Hi Mike
Thanks for the reply, do you feel you need more power on the Kharma in current set up by using one dartzeel?

are you going to the HE show in NYC? I am trying to go there listen myself if I can. I am considering the Dartzeel and Kharma set up. eventhough the Kharma seems to mate well with Lamm gear. I would like to get something little different, I am already using the Lamm M1.1 so, thinkg about the ML2.1 or tube like solid state.
obviously the ML2.1 can't fully develop the potential of Kharma.
Thanks

rubyjunior April 11, 2005 23:02

hi Blueguitar; good question.....and one i have considered a few times. my prevuios room was small so i never went any further than thinking. i have been in a state of transition in the new room.

i do not have experience with bi-amping Kharmas. i know that bi-amping can improve things, although sometimes only marginally. in my particular case, there would have been a few trade-offs and budgetary issues.

another set of Tenor Hybrids, $35,000.

another set of Valhalla interconnects, $3250.

another set of Transparent Opus speaker cable, $29,000.

those are all at list price; obviously you could buy substitues (particularly as far as the Opus) or buy used.

my Placette is not set up with two XLR outputs, so i would have needed a splitter (not the most refined approach).

my feelings were that it would not likely result in enough benefit to justify.

OTOH i expect to eventually bi-amp the VR9's. part of the reason is the location of the speaker terminals on the speakers. the tweeter/mid speaker terminal is about 30 inches off the ground......and the Opus is very heavy......so i will need long jumpers. my plan initially is to use jumpers to the Opus. but this arraingement may compromise the Opus's performance so i may go to bi-wiring initially and bi-amping eventually with different speaker cables.

both Hooper and MES are currently using the DarTZeel vertically biamped on the VR9's and love what it does. i heard this setup at CES and it did sound great (but to be fair i didn't directly compare a single DarTZeel).

would the DarTZeel biamped work equally well on the Kharma?

maybe.

would the Opus speaker cable with a single amp work better?

maybe.

mikelavigne April 11, 2005 02:30

Hello Mike
do you ever think to bi amp the kharma? you have experience the very best model from kharma. the midi and the exquisite both are 90db, 4 ohm. do you think the bi amp those speaker will get you better result? I am still searching for my next speaker, and I felt my Watt puppy 7 sometimes need more power in the sense to get more body on the bass without playing too lound. what you think of it?

thanks in advance.
blueguitar.

rubyjunior April 10, 2005 23:16

Scotty, thanks for the kind comments.....and best wishes on your future room.....i agree completely on the significance of the room (see the thread title).

i do like VAC amps......they are among the better tube amplifiers. but i prefer the Tenor and DarTZeel to any of the VAC amps i have heard. i'm sure once i get the VR9's in room there will be a parade of contenders to plug in to see how they do......

mikelavigne April 08, 2005 03:25

Awesome set up. Particularly keen on the wood behind the speakers. Very interesting acoustical design touch, but makes sense when you think about it. I will be building my own listening room here in the next few years....so I will stay tuned...Can't wait to hear your impressions on the VS-9's...Great speaker...should definitely sound better than the show set up, even though they sounded great there. I spoke with Albert at the show and he is quite keen on VAC gear with his speakers and has shown several times with VAC. Didn't know if you had tried it or were considering it with the VS's...I only mention this as it seemed several posts above were comparing various gear. Good luck with the VS's and let us know how they sound. Boy do I wish I had a room like that. The room is soooo important...

scotty333 April 07, 2005 05:48

Blueguitar; i have listened to the Verity Parsifal a few times, and the Lohengrin once about three years ago. the Lohengrin was not my cup of tea as i recall.....but to be fair it has been so long i don't recall much about it. .

i do like the Parsifal......although it was a little polite for my tastes compared to the Kharmas.....a very listenable speaker that is kind to digital.

i have not heard the Sarastro that i know of....i may have run across it at CES but not specifically remember it.

sorry i can't be more help.

mikelavigne April 07, 2005 03:24

Hi Mike,have you ever have experience with Verity audio's Sarastro or Lohengrin speaker? if you do, what you think of it compare to your Kharma? or overall quality and performance of the Verity audio?

rubyjunior April 07, 2005 01:41

.
Mike,
.
Do let us know when you get to listen a pair of Stradevari's (hopefully in your room) and what you think of them compared to the Exquisites and VR9's.
.
Rgds,
Larry
.

cello April 03, 2005 22:53

Sean, thanks.

i asked my room designer to design the best room that he knew how to design......and left the Exquisite's out of that consideration. my feelings were that the room is the one ultimate limitation that is, by far, the most difficult to overcome......and i wanted a room that would allow me to explore the highest performance gear i could find. we discussed the scale of the room and felt the trade-offs with a large room were better than those with a medium sized room. also, it is great to have a sense of space.

after 18 months of effort to build a room.......it is child's play to switch speakers. this switch is revenue neutral so no pain there.

we will see whether the VR9's are speaker enough (i think they are) and if i will miss aspects of the Kharma (at least a possibility).....you have hit exactly on the question of the moment.

Joesy; thanks for some support on the 'chair' thing.....and i still need to hear those 'Strads'.

mikelavigne April 03, 2005 21:59

Wow Mike. I've never seen this thread or system. Very nice looking, but my first impressions were that the Kharmas were in no way enough speaker for a room of this size. For that matter, i don't know if the VS 9's will even be enough. Either way, i'm certain that they will be a step forward in terms of the dynamic capacity of the system. I'll be curious to see how happy you are with the new speakers once they arrive and what your thoughts are on the total presentation, not just the "jump factor". Please keep us posted. Sean
>

PS... Your humility is only surpassed by your willingness to share your experiences with others to their benefit in an unbiased manner. Thanks for taking the time and effort to do so.

sean April 03, 2005 07:52

Hi, Mike : I am sure that, as myself, there are a lot of us waiting for you to post the differences between the vr9s and the Kharmas ... that will be some very interesting reading (I, personally prefer the Stradivarius over the VR9s) . Also, I will like to say that I think that music listening is something very personnal and it makes very much sense to me to have only one chair on that fantastic magnificent room of yours. The placer of listen to music at that high level of quality on room and equipment can only be truly shared with one self, even thou sometimes you have invited others . I, too, would remove other chairs once the invited are gone. The great mayority of us have to put out with the family room, and I can very well imagine being inmerse totally without distractions and in a perfect room... Heaven. Josey

josey April 02, 2005 23:40

Blueguitar; i'm still waiting too.....

are we there yet?????????

i'm told a few more weeks.

Thanks Ben. it is really about the music.

to justify the room project i had to agree to a revenue neutral budget for a few years with the wife.....which has serverely impacted my former habit of adding lots of new music weekly. one of my real pleasures was that constant discovery of new music.....which i dearly miss. i do have a good deal of music already.....about 5000 lps and 3500 cds and sacds......but more than ever i KNOW it is about the music.

mikelavigne March 23, 2005 14:20

Mike I haven't looked at your system in a while...it now looks even more stunning than before.
More than that what I really like is your big music collection.
To me that's what it's about but I'm sure your set-up and room is like a dream to a lot of us.
Superb.

ben_campbell March 23, 2005 12:23

Hi Mike
I think a lot people here are waiting to hear from you about the VR9 compare to Kharma Exquisite Midi.
please let us know what you think of it

Good Day

Blueguitar

rubyjunior March 16, 2005 16:22

thanks areynolds for the help.....i guess my pictures do invite a few to wonder about my listening habits.

Tal, i have answered your question many times on many different forums.....Audiogon, Audioasylum, Pink Fish, and AVS.....most multiple times.

to be honest; i manage a company with 140 employees and basically am in meetings or interacting 60 hours a week....so when i go home i need a little peace. my nightly sessions are typically singular.....other than audio friends calling me and my web participation as i listen. most weekends i have audio/music friends over and up to 10 will join me in the room at a time.

the wife and my son are frequent listening companions.....although they know when i need my space. when alone i do remove other chairs (i'm a neat-nick....what can i say).

mikelavigne March 13, 2005 02:59

Talshapiro,

May I suggest that you read a thread before contributing such a snide remark! Mike has been married for more than 30 years so he is no social misfit and he is often the first to extend an open invitation to fellow audiophiles and music lovers to experience his fine system and room. On these occassions he brings other chairs in for visitors. Mike has mentioned in several threads that his chair is especially comfortable and well suited to extended listening sessions so who can blame him for siting it in the sweet spot whenever possible. If your post was meant to be in jest then I apologise for my defensive rant.

[email protected] March 10, 2005 22:24

Such a lonely person, just one chair? Suggest investing money in a relationship, eh?

talshapiro March 10, 2005 18:23

Eric; i ordered piano black. it should be two more weeks.

mikelavigne March 06, 2005 15:59

man, i was hoping to get a straight up confessional there, haha. i can't wait to see in room pics with the new speakers. what color cabinet did you order?

eric

ericeash March 04, 2005 04:16