Andy, an additional thought on ACROLINK and Oyaide. the things i read about these products were curious in that they were 'raves' and yet were from brief listens to unfamiliar systems with attributes assigned to cables and even plugs. they read more like promotional ad copy as opposed to objective perceptions. Ken Kesler listened to a totally unfamiliar system to him and said he was 'dazzeled'.....to be fair he did not specifically say he was dazzeled by the sound of the cables or by the food or the hospitality.

both these products might be outstanding. until i read perceptions that build more of an objective case of investigation i can't expect much.

in Denver i will listen to them; but again......how does one judge cables at a show?

maybe someone that has lived with these products and has specific impressions can shed some light.

mikelavigne September 16, 2005 01:24

Andy, i have only heard Zanden at shows.....and the same feedback from Jonathan. very nice digital.....my limeted exposure gave me the perception of a 'warmed up' tonal balance missing the clarity of the CDSD/DAC6. without living with the Zanden hard to say more than that.

the Zanden is another digital product that uses tubes to solve 'digititus'.......in other words trade resolution for naturalness. in my experience, tubed output stages on DAC's are not the very best solution to that challenge. emmlabs retains naturalness without needing tubes......a better way to my ears.

if i lived with the Zanden (or Reimyo, for that matter) i may feel differently.

btw, i've been trying to get Jonathan to get up here to hear how the system is sounding but he's such a wuss!

Larry, for what it's worth.....i have not heard any recent versions of the Wadia.

mikelavigne September 16, 2005 00:59

.
Hooper,
.
Thanks for sharing the info on EMM vs Zanden. Have you ever heard either the Zanden pair or the EMM DAC and Transport compared with the Wadia 861 SE (with all of the upgrades) ?
.
Rgds,
Larry
.

cello September 15, 2005 19:55

Andy, i did just a quick look around to see what i could dig up on ACROLINK cables and Oyaide AC receptacles.

color me skeptical.

but then i was skeptical about the VR9's and the darTZeel amp too.

i do respect Joesph Cohen and would expect these products to be very good......a 'breakthru' that transcends the amount of performance improvement that logic tends to say might be possible over other current similar SOTA products? likely not.

.......and especially not on the level that SOTA AC line isolation could yield.

YMMV. i will pay attention in Denver at the Rocky Mountain Audiofest to these products......who knows?

mikelavigne September 15, 2005 02:19

very interesting product this Equi=tech is. Thank you for introducing this, Mike. I was looking for something like that.

GD

gallant_diva September 14, 2005 04:38

Andy, for awhile a few years back i did compare lots of cables and such but not for a few years......it's less work to just let you (and MES) do much of the work (darTZeel's, VR9's, Jena Labs power cables) and i can just enjoy. :)

no, i've not heard of (or listened to) ACROLINK, but i do have my own opinion on a whole system power grid approach. i do use 'home runs' of 10 guage Romex for each of my 11 dedicated circuts, and Jena Labs cryo'd duplex outlets. no doubt there may be some ultimate benefit to special wire in the walls beyond the Romex; but i agree with Jonathan that there are better, more performance effective ways to get the ultimate performance from your electrical power grid.

it starts with getting power to a dedicated panel as close to the transformer in the street as possible, ideally a dedicated transformer in the street just for your dedicated panel. also, the homes in my area are on 3 or more acres and far apart.....and my home is the first in line off the main road.......so i get a pretty clean 'look' at power and am upstream of my neighbor's 'noise'.

at this time, my power is taken from just downstream of my power meter, as i didn't want to fight the politics with my local utlility (later i may pursue that). i also have 2 dedicated 6' ground rods just for my dedicated panel. i plan on replacing my dedicated panel with an......

Equi=tech 10kv Wall Cabinet System

........which will effectively isolate my gear from the outside power grid without lowering dynamics (it should actually increase dynamics). an increase in dynamics and a lowering of the noise (about -12db) will effectively lower the noise floor of my already very quiet system and increase dynamic contrasts.

i think that the Wall Panel system combined with the in-line conditioners of the Jena Labs Fundamental One power cords (we both use) will outperform pretty much any stand alone power conditioner and eliminate any backfeed of digital grunge into the power grid. you have basically put a wall up to the outside and also walled off each component from the inside.

my opinion is that my direction will far outperform any 'wire-focused' approach in 'bang for the buck' results. to be fair, i have not investigated this ACROLINK so my assumption of a better idea is maybe premature......i'll try to get some info and comment further.

the system is sounding wonderful, with a capital 'W'......you need to come on out for a visit.

mikelavigne September 14, 2005 03:48

Andy, i know you were kinda kidding......but your perceptions have helped me make a few decisions in the last few years......and i haven't regretted any yet. i think we both like objective feedback (from 'ears' we are comfortable with) to keep our sonic compasses properly oriented.

you have done the work with these CD tweaks......and i'll try the Shine Ola for sure. thanks.

Henryhk; thanks. BTW, i had dinner Friday night with Lloyd Walker......but forgot to ask him about Vivid....darn! i did hear lots of stories though. :)

mikelavigne September 12, 2005 01:11

Mike:

Yeah, tweaks can be a confusing subject--especially if you ask for advice. Different people prefer different things, and trying to sort through all the opinions can be pretty frustrating. As for CD treatments, I can say this: I tried the AudioTop, based on all the rave reviews, and I was pretty underwhelmed. I bought a bottle at CES--it's very expensive--and I tried it on a disc when the VR-11/VR-9 room was largely empty. Herve and Jonathan both thought that it smoothed out the sound SLIGHTLY, but didn't do much else. For the cost, I expected a lot more. Also, on a side note, if the Auric cloths are working for you, by all means continue to use them. I look at all my treated discs under extremely bright light, so I see scratches that most people wouldn't or wouldn't care about. As I mentioned, I use the Viva paper towels, and I've yet to find anything better. They may be paper towels, but they're softer than any cloth I've ever tried. By the way, I used the Auric on SACDs (not the Sonopress) with no problems. The Shine Ola is very gentle on discs, and I haven't had ANY problems with treating SACDs. If you do try the Shine Ola, please let me know what you think. Your ears are probably a good deal better than mine. :) It's billed strictly as a cleaner, but I, and a few others, prefer it to the Optrix, Vivid, etc., not only for the scratch factor but also for sonic improvement.

hooper September 07, 2005 18:27

for what its worth I use Vivid: makes things smoother and firms up mid bass a bit...but effect is not dramatic. On Sacds makes less of a difference as I suspect the format's higher resolution leads to such marginal incrementalk gains less audible. Works on DVDs pretty well though, picture quality definitely does improve with better resolution; or more accurately cleaner images and a tad brigher colors

henryhk September 07, 2005 07:56

Andy, thanks for the info. i am very excited to be finally focusing on the music as opposed to the gear and room.

the 'cotton swipes' that came with the Auric Illuminator seem to leave the cd surface completely smooth. i would think any paper would scratch to some degree. i will observe closely to make sure i'm not scratching the disc.

thanks for the heads-up on the Audiodesk.

the Auric seems to work great on redbook......but i know that it can be a problem on some early Sonogram SACD Hybrids......until i fully understand it i will avoid any SACD's with it.

i've had some recommend Vivid, others Optix, still others Audio Top.....and now you recommend Shine Ola. what's a guy to do?

Mr. Weitzel lives close.....so maybe i'll get some to try.

thanks for the coaching.

now i need to start using the Loricraft PRC3......i have 5 or 6 new Lp treatments that i purchased.

i feel like a janitor......cleaning is now sexy.

mikelavigne September 07, 2005 05:14

Mjcmt, the pictures show just one chair; but i often have visitors and have 10 chairs that are brought in as needed. as they are just folding chairs i remove them when not in use. my plan was (when the budget recovers) to add some more comfortable seating that i would leave in the room.

recently i did add a couple of Barcelona Chairs (not originals but nice knock-offs) for comfortable additional seating. they can be configured as a 60" wide sofa (see attached) or stacked.

2 Barcelona Chairs

here is a picture of the new Grand Prix amp stands and rack with the new chairs.

Grand Prix amp stands and rack

while i believe that good headphones will reveal some musical detail equal or better than any system......that is a far cry from "the same results"; which infers equal overall musical satisfaction from headphones as compared to a good system......which is just wrong based on my particular listening priorities.

of course, YMMV.

mikelavigne September 07, 2005 04:56

Just an observation:

You only have one chair in the sweet spot of your awesome room with awesome equipment. You can get the same results with awesome headphones and an awesome headphone amp, and not have to build another house for your gear.

But isn't this hobby what it is al about!

mjcmt September 06, 2005 20:01

Larry, thanks for the feedback. i do have a Furutech RD-1 but i can't find the damn powercord. i haven't used it since i moved two years ago. gotta find the cord.

any feedback on the RD-1 compared to the RD-2?

i'm not familiar with 'Auto top CD treatment'.....can you point me to some info on it? thanks.

i see that you will be in Denver......hope to meet you there.

best regards,

mikelavigne September 04, 2005 13:38

'get the lead out'....

a week ago i was going to 'make small adjustments' to the GP rack and then report. It turns out that it was just not that simple. Actually it has been a roller-coaster week sonically (and very busy at work). The sound got 'different', then worse, then i stressed about it...and finally i did something about it.

Since late last night I finally feel I'm THERE. After almost 3 years since i decided to look for a different home and build a new room.......the new room is at a point where it has the magic and specialness that i went looking for. I have come to understand that just throwing expensive gear into a good room does not guarantee great sound. The bigger the room, the more revealing the gear, the higher the expectations.......the more elusive the synergy. It is that synergy and sense of 'everything flowing together' that takes you from 'hifi' to 'music'.

a week ago i did make some adjustments in tuneing the pads for the shelves that did make very big positive differences in the performance of the emmlabs digital gear. I heard a naturalness and un-veiled sound that i had never heard from digital before......i was floored. i stayed up until 3am playing disc after disc........the difference did not jump out at you but rather connected you to the essence of the music in a here-to-fore unfamiliar way. Each note had a completness and coherence that was spooky......like what vinyl does. it was still short of the dynamic and organic scale of vinyl but had a measure of it's believability.

i was going to post about my reactions but decided to wait until after i filled the legs with lead shot......

the next day after some considerable effort i did find 100 pounds of #7.5 lead shot.......that night i filled the legs of the rack and amp stands with lead shot.....it took a few hours. then last Sunday morning i listened. I expected to be floored again by the incremental improvement of the lead shot. I thought it sounded more 'solid'......but did it? Was something now 'missing'? I couldn't put my finger on it....something had changed.

that afternoon a friend visited.......he had heard about my excitment about the GP racks. we listened for a few hours. he felt the system was better balanced than before and especially preferred the bass performance.......but he was not overly impressed by what he heard.

later i listened back in the sweet spot with an open mind. at this point it hit me that the lead shot was robbing the music of it's energy. even though Alvin of GP had said that the lead shot should improve performance......in my system it had been a negative. the more i listened the more clear it was. it was a pain to install the lead shot but i was very concerned about removing it without spilling these tiny lead balls into my thick carpet. it took until Friday night (last night) to get my son to assist in the tricky job of removing 100 pounds of lead shot from the GP rack and amp stand.

why did the lead ballast rob my system of energy? my opinion is that my floor is 6 inches of concrete......even under the carpet. the lead shot would serve to dampen the legs when sitting on a suspended wood floor; but still allow enough energy and 'action' for things to sound 'alive'. on my concrete floor all that lead would just reduce the ability of the legs to react quickly to absorb the resonance......in essence 'locking up' the play in the suspension.

in any case last night when i finally got the system put back together those first notes were heavenly and particularly satisfying. all was right in the barn!

i had another 'discovery' this week about the system performance. i had been percieving a certain edgyness in my vinyl performance on some cuts. i had thought that possibly my vdH Colibri cartridge was out of adjustment......or......maybe i had my VR9 tweeters set 'too hot'. i had also heard some excessive 'tube rush' out of one speaker between cuts. so i had all these varibles........the racks, amp stands, new speakers.......and maybe my cartridge. i was frustrated that i just couldn't get things to 'jell' the way i wanted.

after some thought i realized that me Lamm LP2 phono stage is over three years old and possibly it was time to freshen the tube set. i ordered a set of tubes and they arrived Thursday.......i installed them......and that special ease and magic returned. it will take 100 hours or so for the new tubes to fully open up and attain optimal performance....but there was a big step up there and a big answer as to some previous frustrations.

after removing the lead shot from the racks and installing the new tubes the vinyl has really gone to a new level as far as believability. there is a rightness and unveiled openness to the music that just pulls you in.

the same night i had installed the lead shot i had also tried some alternate speaker cables. the cables (which will be un-named) did sound good but ultimately i greatly preferred the Transparent Opus with buget bass speaker cable. i will need to find a better pair of speaker cables for my bass but for now i will stay with this combo.

all in all it was a week of discovery......and ultimately finding the synergy and magic back in the system. when a system with the potential of this one finds itself......something really special is happening.

so where does this leave me?

conclusions-----

the GP racks and amp stands are simply amazing.......but like anything one needs to listen. resonance control is not 'one-size-fits-all'.

when you are chasing system synergy everything matters. the higher the potential performance the more demanding that all varibles are handled.

as i sit here typing i have a favorite cd from years past playing........it sounds so damn much better than ever before that i am having a very tough time typing this.......did you hear that? wow!......i gotta go listen now!

mikelavigne September 04, 2005 06:20

.
Mike,
.
You will love the Loricraft. It is a joy to use and does a fabulous job of cleaning. Which fluids do you use ?
.
I also have an Audio Desk and it definitely provides an improvement to the sonics on most CD's.
.
You might want to try the Furutech Demagnetizer. It is surprising to hear how much an improvement it makes when used before each play (60 seconds to use it).
.
I have had the best luck with using Audio Top CD treatment as compared to Vivid and some of the other CD treatments.
.
The combination of using the Audio Desk, Furutech Disc Demagnetizer and Audio Top treatment yields a surprising improvement in the sonics....more detail, less glare, better bass and sound staging. It is a bit mind boggling, but it works.
.
Congratulations on getting to the point where you can really focus on software.
.
Rgds,
Larry
.

cello September 03, 2005 22:21

Dalton, prior to moving into my new room i was fully satisfied with my Kharmas and not really considering any other speakers. i was always on the lookout for something better than the Kharma...but had never found it. there are more than a few very good speakers which have different strengths and compromises compared to the Kharmas. but overall, the Kharmas were my choice.

with the new room, the Kharmas were exposed as too limited in dynamics and bass extention for a room of that size.....soooo......i was forced to consider other speakers. i found that with the VR9 (and VR11) i could retain the strengths of the Kharma and also have all the dynamics and extention that my room allowed. i have not yet heard any speaker that combines the attributes i hold highest as well as the Von Schweikert's.

i am not saying that there are not other SOTA speakers which have their own strenghts....just none that are right for me that i have heard.

Jlind,

my plan is to start focusing on my software now that my room/system has reached a reasonable level of maturity. i just purchased the Loricraft PRC3 record cleaner to help to focus on perfecting my vinyl listening. i also have purchased the CD trimer (Autodisc sp?) and have a few different CD cleaners including Optrix that i plan on trying. i recently heard a demonstration of the effect of the combination of some of these cd tweaks and i am a believer. i do think that some tweaks work better with less SOTA transports......i will be curious how the tweaks work with the emmlabs CDSD.

mikelavigne September 03, 2005 00:38

Hey Mike do you "treat" your cd's with anything? I ordered still polich called Mikro Smooth and a clarifiying spray called Optrix from www.mapleshaderecords.com. I was wondering if you have heard of this stuff? I was so impressed with what those treatments did. The biggest benefits I heard was a larger sound stage and a clearer more pronounced top end. If you havent tried his stuff you should buy some as soon as you can. The difference was night and day. I can only imagine the difference it would make with your system. They also have really well recorded cd's. Read about them on the website and im sure you will want to pick some up for yourself. See ya.

jlind325is September 02, 2005 19:36

Mike,

Thanks for the open invitation. It is exciting for me just thinking about it. I would surely love to hear your set-up considering that most Vancouver Hi-fi stores I frequent do not carry Von Schweikert and DarTZeel. These shops cater more to the Home Theatre group - I guess that is their bread and butter.

I would like to know what other loudspeakers you have considered prior to choosing the VR9SE? What was the main criteria you opted for the VR9? Pardon me if this question was already asked on a previous forum.

Thanks for being a true gentleman.

"After silence that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is music." Aldous Huxley

dalton August 31, 2005 07:25

Dalton; thanks. you would be most welcome for a visit.....e-mail me and we can set it up.

regarding the class D amp for the VR9 subs; i think the design parameters were to have an amp that had excellent dynamic performance, minimal size, minimal heat dissapation and maximum efficiency. since this amp takes it's signal off the output of woofer input from the main amp it takes on the 'flavor' (or lack thereof) of the main amp......so the class D sterile signature (in the mids and highs) is not heard as such.....rather as transparency under 80hz. i think a class A/B amp with the same power and control would be much more challenging to incorporate into the enclosure as far as size, heat and efficiency. also, a class a/b amp would likely have a little more of it's own character. no way to really know about this without trying it.....but my information is that Von Schweikert tried quite a few different amps on the subs and that these worked best.

in addition, a class D amp is better in the under 120hz range than class a/b. the VR9 only uses up to 80hz.

when you visit you can tell me what you think.

mikelavigne August 31, 2005 06:13

Blueguitar; i am using the Tenor but do have a darTZeel NHB-108 keeping me company in my room......waiting for the pending arrival of the pre.....maybe in a couple of weeks.

stay tuned

mikelavigne August 31, 2005 05:16

Mikey,

I have been salivating every time I see a pic of your dedicated room ever since you posted it. From what I read on the VR9SE specifications that Albert uses Class D to power the lower frequencies. I wonder whether a Class AB might have been a better choice considering its stratospheric price range. Any thoughts on this?

Any chances of driving from Vancouver, BC to hear your rig? I promise I won't stay overnight.

dalton August 31, 2005 01:00

If I have bigger room, then I will be happy to get VR7, which is similar to VR9 but less expensive. which amp are you using now? Tenor?. I remember you returned the Dart back to your dealer, bc of premap matching issue. do you see yourself get back to dart when they introduce their preamp?

Thanks for you detailed reply.

rubyjunior August 29, 2005 13:06

Blueguitar; i can't imagine a better speaker for my room/system than the VR9. i'm not saying that the VR9's are the 'best'......but that they fit my system and it's balance perfectly as well as have the dynamics and adjustability to fully utilize the capabilities of the room.

as far as what other speakers would be my next choice; i'm not sure that Kharma has the dynamic energy to be my next choice for my current room. possibly if combined with subs. in any case, i would say that Kharma would be my next favorite speaker for most real world rooms. i have no experience with the Von Schweikert VR7's......it may be a consideration.

there are a few speakers i heard at CES last year that might be my next choice for my room......but i would need to spend more time with them before i could go that far.

the SE version of the GP Monaco is about $800 per shelf. i only got the frame itself with SE spec......which means it has a higher level of carbon fibre. i did not get SE legs. after discussions with Alvin from GP it sounded like the most significant feature of the SE was the better carbon fibre. i did not do the SE upgrade on my amp stands as they didn't have any SE frames avalible for the rack.

mikelavigne August 29, 2005 06:54

Henryhk, thanks for the kind comments. even though you are in H.K. i would still offer an invitation to visit. there are a couple of HK audiophiles that will be visiting my room in October. i am looking forward to their visit and their feedback regarding my system. i have much respect for the very serious and sophisiticated audiophile community in HK.

i listen to a little of everything.....if it sounds good. i enjoy classical but am only learning about it. maybe 20% classical.....many large orchestral pieces as my room does scale and space very well. next is pop/rock.....i'm love 60's and 70's pop and rock and listen to this about 30%......particularly if well recorded. as my system really does bass both deep and tight i'm listening more and more to anything with bass energy. my main love is 50's and 60's jazz along with female vocal.....and this is about 50% of what i listen to. i also enjoy the Blues, Bluegrass, and about anything with great guitars.

sometimes i get into audiophile recordings of what i call 'pretty music'......which if i'm in the mood is fun.....but not as a steady diet.

music is what matters and finding new music or a new artist is still what's best about this hobby.

mikelavigne August 29, 2005 06:33

Hi Mike
Obviously, the VR9 is the best speaker for you at this moment, will you say Kharma is the second best speaker for you if you have to choose a speaker for yourself besides VR9?

what is the retail price on your SE version GP amp stand?

Enjoy the music
Blueguitar

rubyjunior August 28, 2005 23:33