HELLO HELLO MIKE = YOU STILL THERE?
DO WE NEED TO WORRY?

LOXO

loxodrome September 19, 2007 17:45

Any recommendation on a cd player, I plan on upgrading my marantz Sa8260 To either Esoteric SA60, PLinius cd 101, Cary 303/300 or maybe even the Wadia player, not New of course, I been trying to built my system over time, by upgrading pieces after pieces, I’m looking to sound, details, mid, bass, you know the WOW thing, so suggestions are welcome
Regards
Jean

keyarae September 15, 2007 05:46

What you think about the esoteric SA60 over EMM lab player, I been thinking about purchasing SA60..... Witch do you recommend?

keyarae September 11, 2007 04:20

I just posted pictures of my own MM3-Dartzeel-APL NWO2.5T system. Spent 2 weekends tweaking speakers and finding the sweet spot. Speaker and CD player are still burning in (only 130hours so far), but the sound is already great (in particular after extensive room treatment with realtraps). Only complaint I have is that several pop-rock CDs sound terrible: too much highs and harsh voices. But my RTA analysis shows a completely flat response. Mike, do you experience the same problem? Does it mean that a lot of pop CDs are recorded with too much emphasis of highs?
I listen mainly to Jazz and Classical anyway...

stereotaipei September 02, 2007 08:12

Dear Mr. Loxodrome, please recall the wisdom conveyed by the bumper sticker- "mean people suck". Mr.Lavigne deserves to be treated with the same respect that you would want to receive.
OTOH, i do have to re-emphasize that half the work of achieving the most satisfying experience in listening to recorded music involves "letting go", or putting aside concerns you might have about the endless electronic and mechanical limitations that are always going to exist anyway.
as one graduate student i used to know in college would state- that, through careful research "science will be able to uncover ALL the answers to ALL the questions". perhaps he was right, but not in his lifetime, or his great-great grandchildren's. so each of us must at some point come to grips with, whether it's the house we live in, the car we drive, or our diamond-encrusted speaker system, how much is it enough?
TWO THINGS I WANT TO KNOW- #1- what records, cd's, and tapes people find most inspiring and enjoyable, and why. it doesn't matter if you have a $100,000 plus stereo system or you heard it on a radio broadcast. i am on the hunt for new stuff, and as much as i love Mozart, Bach, Handel, and Vivaldi, i need to explore new areas and new sounds. and hopefully (but not necessarily), i want the recordings to be revealing enough so i can hear everything clearly, so i can enjoy it on my (fairly decent) system.
NUMERO #2- i do have a nagging concern regarding my EMM DCC2SE preamp/dac-
should i seriously consider sending it off to be modified, adding blackgate caps and other upgraded parts? some people have subtly hinted that the preamp section is a bit dry sounding. i describe the sound as "VERY neutral", not necessarily thin sounding but not harmonically rich either. like i said, NEUTRAL SOLID STATE/JUST THE FACTS. the dac section otoh is excellent and gets the notes right, both accurately and musically.
this is not an inexpensive component, and the thought that EMM labs could have used (quite a few) better-quality parts is somewhat unsettling (not that i think about it all that often as i have more important stuff on my mind). So, i don't care that it's not the nicest looking preamp; if they saved a few bucks on the design, i can live with that. But it's what's inside that "should be" designed and modified by a group of engineers with some "trained ears" weighing in on the results.

french_fries August 17, 2007 13:39

French Fries,

At last, some start to think!!!But it seems the Europeans are the one's leading the way.

Have fun and share the wonderfull experience of musical expression.

loxodrome August 17, 2007 04:41

The 50ohm interconnects are inside of them. Do they reduce coupling / interference with the power and speaker cables? Looks like something I'd be interested in.... Thanks!

cathode August 14, 2007 13:59

French fries, I love your suggestion of new threat name, one French vote for it! (and btw your post really made me laugh)

In the meantime, I have been going to the gym everyday for the past 2 weeks, to get prepared for the reception of the 1900lbs of MM3 crates this Sunday... with my wife asking my every week why I didn't buy the Magico Mini (only thing she is interested in is that they are much smaller...). Anybody has a friend champion of weightlifting in Tokyo? (...)

We don't see a lot of posts from Mike this days: I bet he spends his time enjoying his new bass set up on the MM3 and his multi channel configuration. Btw Mike, which one do you prefer: stereo or multi? After more than 6 weeks of listening to multichannel , do you recommend the investment over stereo? Are you still missing bass in stereo on the MM3?
Besides, do you have any recommendation in term of initial setup for the MM3?
It will take time to optimize and stabilize everything: in less than 2 weeks I received my APL NWO2.5T, 29 Mondo traps and now the MM3...

stereotaipei August 13, 2007 13:10

mike lavigne is one of the most generous people/audiophiles i know, and personally called me to help me set up my von schweikert vr-9se's. we talked and wrote on other occasions as well. however, mr. loxodrome's point can be taken in a couple of different ways, aside from being Mr. Sour Grapes.
OTOH, i do recognize his point about taking the time to "really listen" to what THE MUSICIANS are doing on a recording (after you've tweaked your equipment ad nauseum)- this requires patience and concentration, like meditating (or studying organic chemistry).
drinking single malts, flipping through the absolute sound, wondering about this or that tube, power cord, a better speaker, the mark-2 version of your mark-1, or watching the lights blink on your amplifiers, are not going to get you to the promised land. alot of times i myself think my stereo is just making sophisticated noises, even after spending obscene amounts of money (i too have those accursed opus cables). friday morning was different though. a big veil lifted- probably a brain clot dissolved relieving a psycho-neuro-blockage (rather than the purity of the electricity coming from the wall), while listening to Handel string concertos (on an ordinary redbook cd). i was HEARING what those guys were doing; i could FEEL what they were feeling. i was grateful that i was able to make the connection- it doesn't happen all that often. even though i feel my equipment is doing its job, and that i'm reasonably satisfied evolving and upgrading my system, that extra dimension, that special mood, only comes around when i am "ready" to experience it. this takes some Mental-House-Cleaning for me, to get rid of the pops and clicks cluttering up my brain.
BTW, this thread is so long my computer (or audiogon's server) is having trouble viewing it! may i suggest that you start a new system thread called "please don't take me too siriusly"?? i would really appreciate it.
MY most sincere wish for myself and others is that we're having fun and making the most of our time listening to the music.

french_fries August 12, 2007 06:53

Hi Mike
This is the wonderfull selection with no doubt!
You changed Exquisites for MM3. I never heard the latter, but they resemble Grand Exquisites to some degree. Are they better?
As you know I am using Tenor OTL at present. You owned both OTL, Hybrid, and now Dart. I am seriously considering to move from Tenor at some stage due to complete lack of support from both CDF and newly re-defunct Tenor.
How was Dard with Kharmas in comparison to OTL.
Thanks for responce on my site.
I am moving to Stealth cables at present.
Regards
Alex

aleksandersloboda August 01, 2007 15:23

Hi Mike,You are Sirius!I caught your response to Frontiers question regarding burn in time for Nordost Valhalla dated 07-20-07.I thought I have a quick look at your system and ended up reading quite abit of the responses.I marveled at your room and equiptment.....I have a modest system which we enjoy very much,its well thought out and its the best that I can afford.I do hear music through it especially now when I made the switch over to Nordost wire in my tonearm through to my speakers.Valhalla used as tonearm wire is a incredible evolutionary step forward in analog play back.Along with the Nordost Thor and Nordost a.c. cords using this wire through out my system has left me with the belief that wire is as important as anything eles in the audio change including the room its set up in.It simply revealed the true voice of my system were other brands of wire unknown to me at the time had a corruptive effect on this tiny fragile signal from my cartridge.I'm very happy with what I'm hearing from my system.I'm off the path of tweaks and upgrades.Even my wife that has aways claimed she has tin ears easily hears an enormous difference.Now she knows what I,m taking about. This wire may not work in everyones system,it sure works in mine. Mark

stiltskin July 31, 2007 15:09

Mike, I found the link for the test CD: http://www.realtraps.com/test-cd.htm.
I have a question for you: you seem to like your EMM Labs transport a lot: did you ever get a chance to compare it to the Wadia 861 SE player?
Thanks, Joel

jfd01 July 22, 2007 23:28

Mike, what a fantastic system (and room) you have! I realize I'm responding to a very old thread here, but you were wondering back then about test tones below 20Hz, and I thought I would let you know that you can find test tones down to 10Hz at the Realtraps website (www.realtraps.com). I downloaded it some time ago so I don't remember exactly where it is on their site, but it's in there somewhere (10-300Hz). Best, Joel

jfd01 July 22, 2007 20:40

Henry: My feelings are on record (NPI). I think digital (DSD) is probably more accurate to the original recording, but I find analog more enjoyable. There is a greater sense of ease, naturalness and immediacy along with greater dynamics with good analog that is hard to beat.

Thank you for your nice comment!

jtinn July 13, 2007 20:48

Jtinn, Mike, thanks a lot for taking the time to provide above clarifications!

Jtinn, I agree with you about the fun factor. And as evidenced by the many posts and visits of Mike's system, all are in extreme awe when confronted with the extreme high audiphile playback in "the barn". Most brands of which you represend as importer/manufacturer, which in turns says something about you as an audiophile equipment provider. Hat off.

Mike, thank you for elaborating on the circumstances of the challenge. And as was described, it must have been highly challenging indeed. Not having been in the same situation as you its difficult to judge its various distractions and their intensity, and I appologize for the somewhat bluntness of my probing. However, may I ask your opinion on the strengths and weaknesses of each (analogue vs digital playback) in general. You have both, probably among the best available today, in your system. I'm personally a great fan of the real silence/blackness that digital playback can provide, I've never heard that in from a record player. Vinyl I've heard though has more realness, musicality, micro dynamics, but I dislike hearing the needle/groove, the dust, the pops (as jtinn mentioned above). Not to mention the significantly higher cost of purchase, maintenance and wear.

Would you and/or jtinn care to comment?

Have a good weekend, with no doubt some great music!
Most respectfully,
Henry

mtkhl567 July 13, 2007 11:40

Mtkhl567 (Henry), as my above post mentions;

i simply did not take proper care to be thorough....and got a bit cocky and distracted

i will expand a bit on this so it is more clear. cut #3 was 'Satin Doll' from the 45rpm version of Johnny Hodges, 'Blues-a-Plenty'. one of my favorite and most played cuts (frequent vistors to my room know it well). in retrospect i was too confident and cocky about my 'feel' for it and only listened for about 1 minute to #A and then only for about 30 seconds to #B.

why would i be so careless with this cut?

it had to do with the previous cut, which was the Mussorsky 45rpm of 'Great Gates'. i had easily chosen #A (correctly, it turned out) but i had played cut #B louder than #A and during the playing of cut #3 (Satin Doll) my brain was doubting my choice for track #2 since i thought maybe that #B might have been more dynamic. during the #A listening of track #3 i said out loud that i wanted to listen to the Mussorsky again.....which i did after choosing #A (wrongly) for track #3.

i listened briefly to the Mussorsky #A again; and choose #A again (correctly again).

a few cuts later i again asked for the Mussorsky to be played. this time i listened longer to both #A and #B and again choose #A. by this time i realized i needed to just relax and spend more time.

in any case; it is conjecture to know how i would have done with track #3 had i not been distracted by track #2......or if i would have practiced more with the methodology. we started the testing at 11 am on Saturday. it wasn't until 10:30 am that i found my safety glasses and put the duct tape over them. i had never listened in this way before......and it is a different environment.

personally; i am confident i could have continued and done 19 out of 20....but that is for another day.

i was unexpectantly nervous......but it was more the excitment of the goings on and being on stage.....not any lack of confidence.

i hope this answers your question.

mikelavigne July 09, 2007 13:39

Henry: You have to understand the situation. There were tons of people there and there were certain distractions (me for one :)).

It really was not close and most people were fooled by pops that they thought were analog when in reality, the recorded digital played those pops back at a much more prominent level. Even though I never peeked, I would always whisper which one was analog in a friend's ear and I was correct each time. If it were done again with very few people, I am sure Mike would get it correct each and every time.

While I had a ball meeting everyone and participating, for my taste, it was really an exercise in futility. Sound was great, food was great, company was great!

jtinn July 09, 2007 05:09

Mike, I'm not a vinyl guy either (at least not yet), however I am a little confused here. If the point was that 5 of 5 personal music choices in ones own system could be distinguished between digital and vinyl playback and the miss fell on nr 3 then what does that demonstrate? In Mike's own system, room, musical choice...lapse of concentration, maybe Mike as you said you took this challenge as a no-brainer. However you don't seem to me as a guy that doesn't take care of the smaller details and proper due diligence when it comes to a personal quest. The reviews you have done in the past, the answers on your own setup and its journey since 1994. Now, I've heard vinyl too, and I am convinced its better than any digital I've ever heard when in direct comparison. Nonetheless, if you were not able to easily distinguish in at least one occasion of six personally chosen pieces (which he must have heard hundreds of times). Than that is to me indicative of digital being damn close to vinyl...at least in your room. And, that confirmed by "three or four others try the test and they missed every single one...". Whaow, that means that they thought they heard vinyl and it was actually digital...? As a budding audiophile I'm pretty confused now...I was saving up for a vinal rig...maybe I should wait until the Memory Player technology becomes mainstream...

Maybe I'm full of it, and I shouldn't ask all these questions. But I admire you and I'd like your opinion, digital vs vinyl, open and clear, pro's and con's.

best of regards
Henry

mtkhl567 July 09, 2007 00:23

Mike..I am not a vinyl guy (not due to sound quality but storage, flexibility, convenience etc) however 5 out of 6...is demonstrative enough.

henryhk July 06, 2007 11:06

Henry, thanks for the kind words about the Challenge.

at some point i may go back and complete my impressions of the event. i don't want to be accused of 'sour grapes'......but i am confident that if i had done even a small amount of practice with the methodology we used for the blind testing that i would not have 'missed' the 1 out of 6 that i did. i simply did not take proper care to be thorough....and got a bit cocky and distracted.

i must say that i disagree with your comment;

If anything it surely shows that at the pinacle of music reproduction, digital and vinyl are very close indeed.

in fact; i believe the opposite.......that the higher the resolution the more obvious the differences. anyone present in the room for the test had no problem hearing the difference sighted......it was quite obvious.....the vinyl was lots better.

OTOH; a blind test presents a different and un-familiar environment....and it was my mistake to not take it more seriously. we had three or four others try the test and they missed every single one......even after hearing the differences clearly when sighted.

mikelavigne July 06, 2007 06:27

Jake; my wife is so supportive and understanding....i am very lucky. but i did stretch the bounds of her support when i explained i was paying for John's plane ticket.....and then i told her 'and by the way.....we will be hosting 25 people here for two days'.

in the end, she enjoyed meeting everyone and had a great time.

then yesterday i mentioned i paid the audioasylum $250 for losing the bet.

but she is already over it (it did not hurt that i worked in the yard all weekend and also yesterday helping her).

she tried to get me to promise i would never again pay for someone's plane fare i had never met for an audio contest.

i just smiled.

mikelavigne July 06, 2007 05:57

thanks Larry and Rhirsch for your support.

Lox just does his thing every month or so to get a bit of attention.

as Azjake says; he is just a garden variety troll not worth fretting about.....and likely best ignored.

mikelavigne July 06, 2007 05:46

Rhirsch,Don't waste your time, this person can't even form sentences!
That's why Mike does not lower himself
"F-1 cars and girl's"......Yah ,maybe when he returns the keys to them after they run it through the carwash! :)
His mentor is probabely Romy the cat...

azjake July 06, 2007 01:13

Loxodrome's response to me via email...

"...TO: Rhirsch

sucks your stuff. i spent my times with F-1 cars and girls while you dumdums have soso $ for nothing

loxo... "

Am I the only one here that doesn't understand why one's hobby/passion would inspire such vitriolic reactions?

rhirsch July 05, 2007 22:55

Loxodrome... who are you to sit in judgement?

His dreams AND how he goes about realizing them is personal and should not have to endure yours' or anyone elses criticism.

rhirsch July 05, 2007 16:24