Description

this room and system is the result of 10 years in High End audio. my system has been stable for a couple of years (except for transport and amplifier upgrades within the same brand). the room has been in the planning stage for about 18 months and i actually moved in a little over a month ago.

my audio philosphy is to have the system get out of the way of the event. i like as pure and simple a signal path as possible and, at this point, prefer passive to active gain stages. i love all the formats and enjoy having lot's of music.....vinyl is my favorite but i listen to at least 60% digital. the new room really reveals the benefits of SACD over redbook.

the system and room truely allow the event to be recreated before me. i love the way the speakers disappear and i am transported to another place/time.

i have choosen my cables, sources, amps, speakers to have as little of their own sound as possible.

recently, i upgraded my digtial transport from the modified Philips SACD 1000 to the new emmlabs CDSD.....this was a significant step upward in performance.

i have written an article in Positive Feedback regarding my room building experience.....here is a link;

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue16/lavigneroom.htm
Read more...

Room Details

Dimensions: 29’ × 21’  X large
Ceiling: 11’


Components Toggle details

    • Evolution Acoustics MM7's
    twin towers, 600 pounds each, main passive tower, 82 inches tall, active bass tower, 84 inches tall.

    passive main tower, 97db, 7 ohms, so easy load. active bass tower has 4 analog adjustments for ideal room integration.
    • darTZeel NHB-468
    Mono block Amplifiers. amazing first watt, transparent and rich tonality. great match for my speakers.
    • darTZeel NHB-18NS with 2 internal phono stages.
    battery powered preamp with 2 separate phono stages. uses BNC 'zeel' cables between pre and amps.
    • Evolution Acoustics 7.5 meter 'Zeel'
    7.5 meter pair of BNC cables from preamp to amps.
    • Evolution Acoustics 'System' speaker cables--10 feet
    new version of these cables, a big step over the amazing TRSC model i have used for 10 years. fantastic performance.
    • WADAX SA Reference DAC
    Wadax Reference Dac----state of the art dac with 2 separate power supplies. the best dac i have heard by a good margin. below is a link to a thread about my Wadax experience.

    https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/wadax-reference-dac-and-server-arrive.34173/#post-771357
    • WADAX SA Reference Server with Akasa optical interface
    ultimate state of the art music server using Roon. includes the Akasa optical interface.
    • WADAX SA Reference Server power supply
    additional chassis power supply to improve the Wadax server performance.

    https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/wadax-server-psu-unit-has-now-arrived.36722/page-6#post-948318
    • WADAX SA Akasa DC cables (3)
    replaces the standard DC cables. takes the performance of the Wadax Reference system to 'Level 4' for ultimate performance. Red in color.

    https://wadax.eu/akasa/

    https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/wadax-server-psu-unit-has-now-arrived.36722/page-9#post-971100
    • Arya RevOpod isolation footer (32 used under the 5 Wadax Chassis).
    height and tension adjustable. the Wadax dac, server, and server power supply chassis all use 8 footers, so it's critical to be able to adjust height and tension to have an even support for optimal performance. RevOpod's are unique in those attributes making them ideal for this use.

    https://www.arya-audio.com/revopod
    • CS Port LFT1 turntable w/arm
    air bearing platter and air bearing linear tracking arm; string drive with zero feedback dc motor, low pressure, low flow air system with zero noise air box.

    world class musical flow, nuance and delicacy, combined with authority and ease. serves the music completely.
    • Esoteric T1 Turntable
    magnetic drive/rim drive idler turntable with torque adjustment.

    with the deletion of my NVS turntable, i was able to move the Taiko Tana active isolation shelf to under the Esoteric T1. this has upgraded the performance of the T1 significantly. objectively small changes, but musically quite profound up tics in realism and immersion. more nuance, greater music focus, better bass articulation. 

    https://www.esoteric.jp/en/product/t1/top
    • Esoteric G1X Master Clock
    Master Clock Generator for speed improvement for the T1 turntable. significant improvement in music realism.

    https://www.esoteric.jp/en/product/g1x/top
    • Durand --Tosca tonearm.
    gimbal bearing design. Tosca is on the Esoteric T1 turntable
    • Primary Control 12" FCL tone arm
    Field Coil Loaded uni-pivot tone arm. with power supply. mounted on the Esoteric T1 turntable. amazing natural and very high resolution tone arm. link below.

    https://www.primarycontrol.nl/Field_Coil_Loaded_Unipivot_Tonearm.html
    • Glanz MH-1200S 12" tone arm
    12 inch tonearm, stainless steel. used for the Sumile mono cartridge.

    https://glanz.tech/e/collection/mh1200s1000s900s/
    • Experience Music/Intact Audio phono corrector + silver wound MC Trio SUT combo for three different tonearms.
    bespoke tubed phono preamplifier. silver wound, with custom dual power supplies.

    https://myemia.com/LR.html
    • LFD -3- Phono Cables DIN to RCA
    3 sets of very high performance phono cables. amazing performance. built by Dr. Richard Bews in the UK.

    one cable uses a DIN to RCA short Dongle + an RCA to RCA interconnect. the Dongle improves the performance of the DIN connection. details at the link below.

    https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/lfd-cables-phono-and-i-c-from-the-uk-cables-as-components.31243/
    • DaVa Reference cartridge
    field coil cartridge. with tube power supply.
    • two Etsuro Golds, ---a pair of Reference MC Phono Cartridges.
    duraluminim (A7075) body, 24 carat 'Kinpaku' Gold Leaf finish, diamond cantiliver. .3mv output, 4 ohms. these are both special versions of the Etsuro Gold.

    one is mounted on the CS Port linear tracker.

    one is mounted on the Primary Control FCL arm.

    finest cartridge i have heard by a significant margin. WOW!
    • Audio Technica MC-2022 60th Anniversary cartridge
    uses the unified stylus cantilever design. which results in extreme lack of distortion and linearity. remarkable neutrality and ability to dig out detail and keep it natural and musical.

    https://www.audio-technica.com/en-us/at-mc2022
    • Murasakino Sumile Mono phono cartridge
    MC cartridge for mono records, .04mv output. tracking force 3gms. finest monaural cartridge i have heard. competes on musical refinement with the top stereo cartridges. 

    https://murasakino.audio/en/products/sumile-mono.html

    Mounted on the Glanz MH-1200S tonearm. mounted on the Esoteric T1 turntable.
    • DS Audio Ion 001 Vinyl Ionizer
    generates positive and negative ions to remove static charge from vinyl records. 

    https://ds-audio-w.biz/products/181/
    • CS Port Static Eliminator IME1 (two of them)
    An unprecedented accessory focusing on cartridge friction. It suppresses the effects of static electricity and makes records clearer.

    one is on the CS Port tt, one on the Esoteric T1 tt.

    https://www.csport.audio/products/products-ime1-en.html
    • Stage III Concepts 1.5 meter XLR set of Gorgon interconnects.
    high performance interconnects. used from the Wadax Reference dac to the darTZeel preamp.

    http://aaudioimports.com/ShowProduct.asp?hProduct=283
    • Ampex twin ATR-102----one 1/4" and one 1/2" reel to reel master recorder
    hot rodded by ATR Service Inc----Andrew Kosobutsky. significant upgrades over stock. each interfacing with hot rodded Ampex MR-70 preamps. the new tape deck performance standard in my opinion.

    https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/ak-hot-rodded-ampex-atr-102s-w-mr-70-preamps-replaces-my-studers.36288/
    • Kosobutsky 1.5 meter set of RCA interconnects + 8 meter set of XLR interconnects.
    1.5 meter set of RCA interconnects are used between the EMIA phono corrector and the darTZeel preamp.

    8 meter set is used between the Ampex MR 70 tape preamps and the darTZeel preamp.
    • Nordost QRT QNET network switch
    Network switch, with Nordost Qsource power supply.

    https://www.nordost.com/qrt-audio-enhancers.php
    • Synology 30 Terabyte NAS (a pair = 60 TB) music file storage
    mirroring music storage for my music files.
    • Massif Audio Design Audio Racks, solid wood
    2--double wide 3 shelf racks for sources

    1 single wide rack 4 shelf rack for Ampex MR-70 tape preamp chassis.

    https://www.massifaudiodesign.com/racks
    • Nordost Sort Fut rack footers (3 sets of 4)
    mechanically tuned resonance control device. supporting the three Massif racks.

    https://www.nordost.com/sort-systems/sort-fut.php
    • Taiko Tana (5 of them) Herzan TS-150 (2) + TS-140 (3)
    active isolation under 5 separate components: (1) the NVS turntable, (2) the MSB dac, (3) the darTZeel preamp, (4 + 5) both darTZeel mono block amplifiers. custom modifications by Taiko Audio add a linear power supply plus panzerholtz top layer + Daiza platform to provide full frequency resonance attenuation to each platform.
    • Taiko Audio Daiza isolation platform--22 used in the system
    Panzerholtz Platform with spiral cutouts reducing mid and high frequency resonance while retaining life and energy and not changing tonality.

    22 Daiza platforms in the system of various sizes under every piece of the signal path.
    • Evolution Acoustics 'system' power cables
    a new version of the TRPC model i used on my darTZeel 468 mono blocks for the last 10 years. a big step up.
    • Sablon Audio King power cord
    used on the Wadax Reference Server power supply.

    https://www.sablonaudio.com/power
    • Absolute Fidelity power interfaces
    power cords specifically designed for either motors (tt and tape decks), amplifiers, and components. 11 in the system.
    • Tripoint Audio Troy Signature
    Grounding box for chassis grounding the darTZeel 458 mono block amplifiers + grounding the passive main towers of the Evolution Acoustics MM7 speaker system.
    • Tripoint Audio Elite
    Tripoint Elite grounding box. this does chassis grounding for my sources. it uses a a pair of Tripoint Thor SE Master Reference ground cables for my dart preamp and the MSB Select II dac. there are also 4 Signature Silver ground cables to the two arm boards of the NVS tt, the power supply of the NVS tt, and the SGM server.
    • Equi=tech 10WQ
    10kva balanced Isoltion transformer and distribution panel.
    • Furutech GTX-D NCF Rhodium duplex outlets
    10 in the system. used with 10 Furutech covers and frames. uses NCF (nano crystal formula) material to reduce noise by emitting negative ions.
    • Wave Kinetics A10 U8 decoupling footers
    8 sets-of-4 in the system for individual tuning of each piece of gear.
    • Auralex T-Fusor diffusers
    i use 20 of these. 6 each on the front side walls, and 4 each front ceiling and rear ceiling.
    • Klaudio Record Cleaning System
    automatic record cleaner
    • Acoustic Revive RL-30 mKIII CD-LP demagnatizer
    for demaging any disc.
    • Furutech DF-2 LP disc flattner
    will remove warps from Lps
    • Audiodharma Cable Cooker, Anniversary Ed.
    will cook any cables
    • Winds ALM-01 Stylus Force Gauge
    easy accurate, repeatable, measurments.
    • i-Tower by Koncept LED floor lamp
    (3) are used. best audio light ever. 2 'warm', 1 'cool'.
    • Quietrock THX 545 drywall
    specialized drywall with a 1/4" metal layer. used in my front sidewalls to establish proper room boundaries.
    • Barn.... ......room is....
    ....most of the ground floor. 29' x 21' x 11'.

Comments 3397

Showing all comments by mtkhl567.

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Mike, haven't seen your system/room for a while now. I can only imagine its like a dream. You think you might benefit from a larger room now?
Henry

mtkhl567

Merci Sam!

mtkhl567

My amp is with Herve right now, waiting to go pick it up! If you're ever in Paris let me know, I'm starting to find out about the good jazz clubs and restaurants!

mtkhl567

Hi Gary, I'm settling into Paris, France ... I'll probably start osting some pics as soon as I get my amp back from Herve.

You are right though on the 458s, if he did make something halfway, he'd probably get more 108 owner's to upgrade.

Henry

mtkhl567

I'm with you Mike, all the way on the numbers, but no kidding the right channel peaked at 1040 watts or close to that in his basement. The most amazing things was that there was no sense of reaching a limit, the control was just phenomenal, the separation of all instruments, voice was impeccable, the speed of base in an drum session on vinyl was as real as it gets, close up. The tt didn't seem to mind the kind of pressure it was subjected to. Herve, used a modified Colibri. I just never heard the MM3's like that before!

As for the cost, well he's backlogged on these mono's already more than a year. So we all have some time to save up a little longer... :) same for the MM7s I guess.

It was a most memorable experience!

mtkhl567

I was priveledged to spend an afternoon in Herve's basement recently, where he has his MM3's paired to his new mono blocks. We started with digital but soon switched to his EMT turntable. His turntable was 6 feet to side in front of the right speaker and didn't vibrate at all. Eeven when the mono's were outputting above 1000 watts into the MM3 midrange and thweeter section. Unbelievable control at that level, i'm going to have to start saving up... We listened to some amazingly good recordings as well as simple 140 gram vinyl pressings from the 70s and 80s. Prince's Rainbow Children, Tears for Fears, amongst others.

Anyway, the mono's are absolutely awesome! I'm wearing a dartZeel polo shirt to work today, thanks Herve. I'm looking forward to visiting again soon. Now I'm wondering what those mono's would sound like paired to the MM7's...

mtkhl567

About lowering noise floor. My personal experience. There are other solutions out there. For example, I learned about a guy in Germany (Creaktiv)who creates, amongst other things, products just for reducing noise levels in everything touching your music signal. I tried a whole set of, according to him, his most effective products.

And Mike, you know I have much the same system components as yours, the noise floor dropped SOOOO RADICALLY that I found it way too spooky and took most of it out again. Just to say what Mike mentioned before, you have really NOOO idea about the noise "polution" in everything around you. All matter around you is made up of atoms that have energy stored in it which affects your feeling/hearing. The more you take that away, the more unnatural it feels, effectively because, it is a piece of "life" you are reducing.

So the art of noise reduction is to do it in those places and things that add a non-natural element to the experience of enjoying music. And this is where our hobby gets very very tricky, because our hobby consists of using eletrical energy to move air to reproduce a historically recorded event.

Now, how's that for some hobby phylosophy! Enjoy, but don't overdo it :)

mtkhl567

Hi Mike, have you ever listened to a Soundsmith strain gauge cartridge system. I have heard that it has unheard of performance due to its unique technology, giving it unrivaled neutrality (I mean no sound of its own), and you can have different needles/tips that you can easily exchange yourself.

A group of audiophile's in The Netherlands compared it to the XV1s, A90, Colibri, Lyra Titan and unanimously concluded that it was the best cartridge system they ever heard by a long shot. I'm thinking about trying it myself soon.

mtkhl567

Jonathan, Mike, the relentless persuit of perfection is again mindboggling! I guess the economy has been picking up in the US of A!

Certainly visiting Mike's room is on my list of "things to do before I die" ...

I guess, if that's with Mike's permission :-)

Have you tested your new decoupling devices in Mike's room yet? Can you compare them to Harmonix?

mtkhl567

Looking forward to you writing some impressions on the 458...are you testing the new EA BNC interconnect too?

mtkhl567

Hi Mike, will you be trying the EA BNC interconnects too? It would be interesting how they stack up against your Valhalla's and/or Transparent MM's or indeed the Zeel's?

And what about the MM7's...

We need a major economic upturn...sigh !

mtkhl567

Mike, thats great feedback thanks. In the contect that you mention we are talking evolution of all the great traits the system already has. I love this approach, as the fundamentals of the system are already so right. I'll probably get them both at the same time when I've saved up myself.

I was reading - online - the latest Stereophile and had to smile at the list of annual components. Great stuff in there but all individual. And its all about synergy of components. And sound tastes. Oh what fun it is, this hobby.

Any new interesting recordings lately you can recommend ( no tapes please..LOL)

mtkhl567

Mike, its been a while...are sales picking up for you these days? Sure hope the worst is over...

I was wondering if you have tried Kevin's new interconnect and speaker cables yet. I haven't read all your posts for a while, so I may have missed your blog.

mtkhl567

Thanks Mike for your update. You are dead on with the room comment. Interesting about your base issue. In my room, although 500 sqft the base does not go as low as my previous room which was 700 sqft with a back wall at about 30-35 from the woofers. I miss that clean sub <25Hz base ... am I bound by the laws of physics or can my room measure down to that level despite its size?

mtkhl567

Addition: the speaker auditioned was the Grand Exquiusite!

mtkhl567

Hey Mike, occasionally I like to go out and test my ears on another high-end system. You know, just to re-affirm my sonic taste and component choice. And yesterday I had just such an experience. I listened to two high-end systems at a dealer with decently treated/sized rooms for about 4-5 hours. When I came away and played the same songs at home I once again smiled and was so pleased with my MM3/DartZeel/Playback.

The systems I auditioned were Wilson Alexandria/Boulder and Kharma Exquisiste/Burmester. Both their very best. All cabling by Transparent Opus MM(!).

Keep em spinning

mtkhl567

I guess $280k is a lot to shelve out for any ”upgrade” , oh well, don`t mind me joining you in that daydream. Me too I enjoy my combo a lot. My Swmbo laughed when I brought it up! Us boys and our toys...

mtkhl567

Mike, have you put your order in for the MM7's yet ... together with the DZ mono's ... ? I couldn't even get my mind wrapped around what that would be like!

mtkhl567

"one other nice consideration of the zeel cable is that it can be 'any' length up to 1/2 Kilometer and the sound will be the same, so you can place the Playback Designs near your sitting position without sonic penalty."

Not to underestimate financial penalty these days, and ability to hide the Zeel vs standard ICs due to their thinness!

Tuboo, the model B is what you get today if you order one, model A you might be able to get second hand if you wait long enough for someone to part with one (which is fairly rare!). Its not a rumor, model B just succeeded model A some time after its introduction. Sonically there is no difference, just the DC comp circuit - if you wanted to use it - is included.

mtkhl567

Jtinn, Tuboo, my personal experience in running the 108 version B amp and DC compensation is that I've never required replacing any fuses when internal DC compensation jumpers are set to OFF. If you bias both left and right channel, which is easy to do with the supplied screw driver and a small torch, to -300mV each when the amp is at operating temperature, it will NEVER blow a fuse. Blowing a fuse kicks in at plus or minus 2000mV. When turning on the amp it will swing start from about +1600mV and will settle around -300mV (if so biased properly) between 5-15 minutes of power ON, indicated by the blinking eyes. Alternatively Herve can supply a 22-Ohm resistor jumper for each output terminal that eliminates this DC swing alltogether. I personally didn't get these jumpers because my amp is ON 24/7.

God, I miss my music, couple more weeks...

mtkhl567

Tuboo, It's not just the power, but it's increased musicality and palpability, the greater sense of ease that was just overwhelming. It reminded me of when I changed from my 33H mono's to the NHB-108, it was so abundantly obvious...

Mike, are you busy listening to music? Or selling cars? Hibernating over winter?

mtkhl567

Mike, those DZ mono's were amazing, even when I didn't hear them at their best. ie not broken in, not with the NHB 18NS pre-amp, not with the MM3's, not in a super room. Just awesome!

Herve promised to ensure an eye-catching finish just like the NHB-108's see-through top was. Can't wait to get a pair...

mtkhl567

Interesting, I saw Andy Payor in his room at CES ... not a Rockport turntable in sight...

mtkhl567

Mike, I really need to take you up on that invitation some time :-)

Recently on a show I heard a Studer playing on some small active speakers, albeit in the CD/LP sales room (so lots of rumor), but it caught the attention of quite a few people. Zero tape his, and a very very nice rendering of the recording.

But as a novice audiophile, for me I'll eventually go the digital direction ... maybe I'll start with the RR 24/192 downloads onto my recently purchased 1TB hdd ... now when 32/352.8 resolution levels become available, that's when digital really will start to get interesting IMHO ...

mtkhl567

Tuboo, maybe you want to wait for the DartZeel NHB-458 monoblock's to come out next year ...

mtkhl567

Hi Tuboo, yes I too remember Mr Fremers remarks about the Dart combo sounding too "warm" for his taste. I personally have a different ear and experience from Mr Fremer. Mellow to me in his systems context could originate from his Stealhead tube phono amp, and maybe his tt source. My expereince is that the Dart power amp is extremely fast, dynamic, controlled and coherent from top to bottom. The most musical power amp ever, it takes all the strengths of the pre and exemplifies each significantly. If you'd discuss with Herve's design choices you will understand why the pre and power amps are THE perfect match.

Mike L and RTR ... whow, that's going a bit too far for me, let me enjoy good vinyl for a while on the excellent GPA Monaco & the Dart combo :-))

mtkhl567

Even if you use a laser leveler to adjust your speakers to say 1 mm exactly, how do you compensate for the fact that your right ear doesn't hear the same level as your left ear (no exception, such is nature). From the sweet spot I used a laser distance measure from left ear to left tweeter and right ear to right tweeter within 1 cm accuracy. Works for me.

mtkhl567

Tuboo, I'm no speaker designer but I listen to a lot of opinions about speaker design from people in the biz/hobby. What I've been told is several things. One, in a ported design vs an enclosed one is a compromise for speed as ports help move air but also induces vibration and thus distortion. Its also cheaper to implement. Two, the misconception that woofers can fire any direction because you can't hear where those low soundwaves come from anyway. Well, that may be partly true but low level information should be phase coherent and time aligned when reaching your ears. So rear facing could never be "in sync" by that definition. That original timing difference of soundwave information including rerflections should be on your recording, and a system should not add to it.

I certainly agree with you on the important need for powering a subwoofer. And certainly 45, even class A, watts hardly seems up to the task. And compare that with 2 x 1000 class D watts for my 4 x 15" enclosed paper treated woofers may be a misplaced comparison. And on paper that in itself may explain a large part of the difference in bass performance that I clearly heard. Delicate hobby, this is ...

Btw, the room was not a show room, but a permanent, well treated, room at a very respected high-end dealer in Belgium.

mtkhl567

I know there are many other considerations, as obviously I wasn't just listening and therefor comparing one speaker vs another. So more accurately put the Accuphase/Lohengrin vs Dart/MM3 especially on track number 13 (Its a Miracle) of Amused to Death by Roger Waters it was so abundantly clear that the base response of the three drum solo's at the end of the song were completely fouled up by the former setup. Sure room, the daad's in the corner (which were set at reflection not absorption!) etc have a role to play. But the rear firing woofers on that drum solo from the Lohengrin II just meant the deepest base piece was lost altogether. The upper base dynamics, depth and the speed of the Lohengrin was excellent though on that piece. Again those proprietary midranges are fantastic. And if you never heard that song before, you might think, hmmm excellent. That is until you hear how it is supposed to sound like, and then you come to the conclusion I came to above ... and that means it would probably do that on most lower octaves of all kinds of music. And for that 200,000 Euro pricetag imho is a shame. Btw, Julien himself set up that room...

mtkhl567

Before I forget, congrats on USA winning the gold against Spain in basketball. Not sure wether you were able to see or tape, but that game was worth watching every minute!!! :-)

mtkhl567

Mike, Tuboo, I heard the Lohengrin powered by an all Accuphase chain (A45/2810/DP800/DC801/VPI/Herron) with MIT cabling and some room treatment recently. I agree with Mike that the Lohengrin is a very fine speaker indeed, the in-house manufactured midrange and ribbon tweeter are truely exceptional pieces. Very fast midbase I remember. The only drawback were the backfiring woofers, resulting imho unacceptable phase/timing incoherence in low frequenies (noy sure what the x-over was set at). They were powered by 45 pure class A watts and that seemed to be sufficient in the appr. 60-70 sqm room with high ceilings. Verity is working on getting the sensitivity of the Lohengrin up to over 100db as Julien explained to me then.

Mike, between you and me, that session with Julien just put for me into perspective what an unbelievably fantastic speaker the MM3 is by comparison. And what great synergy the Dart/MM3 combo presents for the money.

Not that the Lohengrin/Accuphase didn't sound great, it sounded fantastic, everyone in the room was justifiably impressed (also with the EUR200,000+ price tag!) ... but it could not touch the Dart/MM3 for sheer musicality, disappearing act, tonal balance, clear soundstaging and palpability...

mtkhl567

Mike, all those improvements... the "hairdryer" tweak, the MPS-5, the new MM3 position, reel-to-reel. Don't you think its time to update some of your pics? Would love, and I'm surely not alone, to see your latest and greatest!

Thanks for sharing your journey, and are you too leaving some of your gear on permanently? That's my most recent super tweak... I was listening to Lee Morgan's 1964 Search For The New Land recording. Fantastic Blue Note recording. So much more analog with all components at their operating temperature.

Enjoy!

mtkhl567

French_fries, to finalize the room with a grand piano I would figure Mike's taste would be more suited to a top Bosendorfer, or maybe, just maybe a Bechstein ....
either way, it would be interesting if the "system" could truthfully replicate the sound of a really good piano in the same room ...

Mike, ever thought of trying that...?

mtkhl567

JF - I'll have to read up a bit. Is that also where I'd find some technical info on the APL amp?

mtkhl567

Mike, I wonder if you ever heard the Accustic Arts hybrid tube DAC II. I have, and I found it quite good (vs the CDSA SE), in fact it was abundantly clearly better in many aspects, most importantly sounding very analog.

"...in any case; i think it's ready for all comers...". I'm curious to hear if there are any comers, would be so interesting to learn from.

mtkhl567

Mike, that tweak that you recently discussed is that the same one as Brian Kyle is selling now?

mtkhl567

Mike, I apologize for my somewhat incorrect vs categorization, thanks for sharing that detail ... maybe JT can post some general technical specs on his website for everyone to read. So have you called Alex yet? You probably need some more hours on your player before any proper comparison.

Gary, I appreciate your sense of humor, especially in this hobby. All too often some audiophiles get too intense and serious about what products "sounds best". In your situation above, a bedroom alarm clock would have done it too :-)

I've only ever exchanged one email with Alex (and a couple with Brent), and his passion for what he does was shining through load and clear. I've nothing but admiration for him, and while I never had the chance to hear any of his products, all APL owners rave about them. Maybe one day...

But yeah, let's keep the fun part alive!!!

mtkhl567

Mike, don't worry, I'm on JT's list... just obviously can't get a sense of performance if not listened & compared myself. I'll probably fly over to Barry when he gets his. But the barn where this stallion comes from is obviously a good indicator!

mtkhl567

Mike, et all, both players are at the top of their game. At that level its about subtle nuances and likely at best very subjective preferences. 24bit vs 32bit DAC architecture, VDRS NEO vs VDRS drive, tube vs solid state, $10k vs $30k.

I remember in a prior shootout the CDSA came in close second after the NOW2.5T. The MPS 5 is allegedly MUCH better than the CDSA, so has the gap closed or could it even dethrone the NOW3.0GO? My bet is that the value of the MPS 5 is absolutely irresistible, unless you don't own a decent pre-amp...

mtkhl567

"...But your point is well taken. It would be awkward to compare two products with the mfg. present, especially if the results came out in favor of the other brand..."

Even more awkward if that player would be one third of the other's retail price too...

mtkhl567

Mike, that's great news on the PBS CDP. Can you pls take a pic and post it? Would love to see what it looks like!

mtkhl567

Wow Mike, that's a very interesting account of your experience there. I can see your enthusiasm for this tweak. I heard something similar described to me in a commercially available product here in Europe, but had not come to experiment with it yet. No blow dryers involved though, but it involved demagnetizing and ionizing in some way. After your account here, I'll go back and ask some more about that over here and share my findings.

mtkhl567

Welcome back Mike! As always its a pleasure to see your posts filled with interesting info, opinion, new products, and testing new stuff. I agree with your life-work balance sentiments, very important to have a good equilibrium, which means making choices about where you spend your time & energy.

I'd be interesting in your opinion about the Playback System player and particularly how it compares to the Emm. The technology in that player seems to be phenominal, and has the capability to go way beyond the Emm ... which is already a mindbogglingly good CDP. I may fly out to the states this summer to hear it.

mtkhl567

Matt, the gentleman goes by the name of Barry Konigsberg and here is his weblink:

http://www.transparentmusic.net/

Other than the Jena Labs powercords I've never felt the need for additional power conditioning. But then again I did not live in a power grid "dirty" area. Look at some other MM3/Dart/Emm combo owners on the Gon and they will have more elaborate conditioning systems.

Good luck & be prepared to be amazed when auditioning this combo...

Henry

mtkhl567

FWIW I tried the EA double run speaker cables in my previous system (SF Stradivari, ML 33H/32) and did a/b with the Nordost Valhalla's. The EA cables which only had about 200 hours burnin on them sounded already better than the Valhalla's (they really need 700 hours). We used the Cisco gold CD with Gary Carr on double base and Harmon Lewis on organ. The double base sounded more real, superb timbre, with the EA cables, the organ had noticably more space and the deeper tones by both instruments were more clearly defined. Gary Carr's breathing had gained in detail and structure. The EA cables are also significantly cheaper than the Valhalla's...so this was a no brainer to me.

mtkhl567

Mike, a personal thanks to you from me and my wife for having shared all your knowledge and experience on this and your other threads. All those are a testament to what a great person you are and the passion that you have for music and music reproduction.

My dream has come true and when I think back at when I started this journey back in late 2003 in Bonn, Germany, I couldn't have believed what I ended up with today really existed. Amongst others, you, Jonathan, Alvin and Barry are in my audiophile best friends list for life.

We've started a vinyl collection, with the GPA tt and about 150 LPs this week and can't wait to experience more of the analogue world. We're packing up tomorrow to return to Europe next week. If you ever get the chance you're more than welcome.

Your audiophile friend,
Henry

mtkhl567

Jtinn, Mike, thanks a lot for taking the time to provide above clarifications!

Jtinn, I agree with you about the fun factor. And as evidenced by the many posts and visits of Mike's system, all are in extreme awe when confronted with the extreme high audiphile playback in "the barn". Most brands of which you represend as importer/manufacturer, which in turns says something about you as an audiophile equipment provider. Hat off.

Mike, thank you for elaborating on the circumstances of the challenge. And as was described, it must have been highly challenging indeed. Not having been in the same situation as you its difficult to judge its various distractions and their intensity, and I appologize for the somewhat bluntness of my probing. However, may I ask your opinion on the strengths and weaknesses of each (analogue vs digital playback) in general. You have both, probably among the best available today, in your system. I'm personally a great fan of the real silence/blackness that digital playback can provide, I've never heard that in from a record player. Vinyl I've heard though has more realness, musicality, micro dynamics, but I dislike hearing the needle/groove, the dust, the pops (as jtinn mentioned above). Not to mention the significantly higher cost of purchase, maintenance and wear.

Would you and/or jtinn care to comment?

Have a good weekend, with no doubt some great music!
Most respectfully,
Henry

mtkhl567

Mike, I'm not a vinyl guy either (at least not yet), however I am a little confused here. If the point was that 5 of 5 personal music choices in ones own system could be distinguished between digital and vinyl playback and the miss fell on nr 3 then what does that demonstrate? In Mike's own system, room, musical choice...lapse of concentration, maybe Mike as you said you took this challenge as a no-brainer. However you don't seem to me as a guy that doesn't take care of the smaller details and proper due diligence when it comes to a personal quest. The reviews you have done in the past, the answers on your own setup and its journey since 1994. Now, I've heard vinyl too, and I am convinced its better than any digital I've ever heard when in direct comparison. Nonetheless, if you were not able to easily distinguish in at least one occasion of six personally chosen pieces (which he must have heard hundreds of times). Than that is to me indicative of digital being damn close to vinyl...at least in your room. And, that confirmed by "three or four others try the test and they missed every single one...". Whaow, that means that they thought they heard vinyl and it was actually digital...? As a budding audiophile I'm pretty confused now...I was saving up for a vinal rig...maybe I should wait until the Memory Player technology becomes mainstream...

Maybe I'm full of it, and I shouldn't ask all these questions. But I admire you and I'd like your opinion, digital vs vinyl, open and clear, pro's and con's.

best of regards
Henry

mtkhl567

Mike, I'm in complete admiration! You called the challenge, you conceded that you lost by missing the third recording, and with the grace that only true gentlemen are bestowed with.

Disregard perhaps the momentary laps of concentration at that moment, the discussions around the gear, process, technical topologies etc. If anything it surely shows that at the pinacle of music reproduction, digital and vinyl are very close indeed.

It was very informative to read about the challenge and I'm sure that everyone involved grew,learned and had pleanty fun.

Again: BRAVO ;-)
Henry

mtkhl567

Henry, I heard the same gear on Wilson Watt/Puppy 7 speakers. And I was amazed by the detail, imaging, soundstage, but the dynamics and speed were suboptimal...to me unacceptable. Isn't it strange how there can be such differing experiences with similar setups? Not that the Wilson is in the same league as the Magico 6, but still. The AR stuff was a full beat slower than for example the top Spectral gear I compared it with. Just my 2 cts.

mtkhl567

...another question to you. Have you tried the Evolution Acoustics speaker cable? I had the pleasure of hearing them in my system last weekend (4 seperate 8ft runs, ~200 hrs burned in)...and made my NO Valhalla's sound THIN in every respect by comparison!

They could give your Transparent Opus MM a good challenge. Wonder how a fully burned in SC/IC/PC system from them would sound...

mtkhl567

Mike, thanks for your elaborate reply, I'll gladly take your pair of MM3's of your hands when you finally get your VR11's...in 2008 or 2009 :-)

Good luck with your challenge this weekend, looks like a lot of fun.

Henry

mtkhl567

Hi Mike, always a pleasure reading your thread. On the topic of your new subs, I remember an online review by you of the VS VR9's and you ended that review by saying something to the effect that the soul of music is in the speakers base reproduction capability. And the VR9's had that in spades.

How, in your opinion, does the base of your current setup (MM3+subs) compare to that of the VR9's, and do you think it could even be better than the VR11's?

Henry

mtkhl567

This is the first time I read anyone stating a digital source sounds better than analog, albeit with an unconfirmed modification that (doubles?) the cost of the Meitner combo.

Videoht, are you a recognized Meitner modifier, or more a hobbyist? And can you explain some more detail how you use Tantalum and its extreme high heat resistance and conductivity properties in the upgrade, I presume in the resistors? I ask because I used to buy large quantaties (tons) of Ta for turbine applications.

Can you also share a bit more about your system setup, cable used on the clock, room setup. Where are you located etc.

Regards
Henry

mtkhl567

That's too funny!!! Lox, I think you've just invented about the only unmarketed tweak out there. But before you put any silver, gold or platinum versions on the market may I make a suggestion for those with a more limited budget? Just hold your hands behind your ears when listening, same effect, and may also increase audiophile listening pleasure (depending on personal taste)...all at no cost! It does bypass the papercutting fun though...

Looking forward to that picture of you and your family with your "additors", or mine, on your system page.

:-)
Henry

mtkhl567

JF (read Jean-Francois?), where is your system posted. I'm curious.

Btw, my wife loves Sardou, Cabrel, Kaas...well she would, being French as two of my three kids! Any other french musicians you can recommend?

A+
Henri

mtkhl567

Mike/JF...!!!

If Mike is having problems following JF, what about the rest of us? I use the Jena One PC's, but what is being discussed above goes way over my head (...and probably 99.9% of ML's regular blog readers).

Let's get back to the music, Mike a while ago you mentioned about being open to all sorts of music. Here are some of my favorites:

Kari Bremnes (Norwegian), amongst others Svarta Bjorn (1998), Over en By (2005) and if you don't understand norwegian Norwegian Mood (2000). Not that you need to understand the langyage to enjoy her amazing voice and some typical Nordic musicality (Label is Kirkelig Kulturverksted)

Richard Bona (French African), Munia the Tale (2003) by Verve. The first track is an amazing spatial acapella!

Paolo Conte (Italian) if you like a rusty Italian voice, works for my wife(!). He's published many albums, try Reveries, came out in 2004. But his earlier years are the best.

And if you can stand French, then I could recommend Michel Sardou (Du Plaisir 2004) where he also has a duet with the infamous Garou (yes, also french singer). Or french guitar player/songwriter Francis Cabrel. His 4 disc recordings Une Ombre a l'autre is a great set of live recordings issued in 1991, from his tour (de France) late eighties.

I could go on, but I'd probably hit the letter count limit for posting a response :-). Hope there's something in there for you.

Who ever said in an earlier blog that the 80s and 90s were a musical wasteland must surely have made that comment from a very narrow personal perspective...music is like wine, there is simply good stuff everywhere waiting to be discovered, just move your boundaries. Especially in recent day-and-age fame does not neccesarily mean quality. With that, I get of my soapbox, and wish you Mike and everyone reading your blog happy listening and the eternal pursuit of finding great music (and ofcourse equipment to play it on...)

Long live the music
Henry

mtkhl567

Thanks Mike for your lengthy reply on "strategies" for a succesful audiophile hobby while preserving marital bliss. I guess I am lucky to have an understanding wife too, and I am really happy that my kids are starting to appreciate the system too although they don't understand the value of money (at 6,5 and 1) yet!

FYI, I did try the DartZeel power and pre-amp (thanks to Barry Konigsberg, great guy)with my Stradivaries in my home and the new Emmlabs onebox, and there is no doubt in my mind that it sounded much better than what I have now. It was very surprising to me how much better...mindboggling. And, I am also convinced that adding excellent vinyl gear would take my system go even higher. I guess that's part of a learning curve and better products out there over time.

Now, Barry also raves about the Evolution Acoustics speakers. My goodness, this hobby can get very, very expensive... :-)

Regards
Henry

mtkhl567

Hi Mike, I've been watching and reading about your audiophile involvements for a while now, impressive journey! First I have to congratulate you on your latest setup, its my understanding that you probably have one of the best sounding systems and room in the US if not on the planet earth. Second, it sounds like you have the "buy-in" from the misses to go to these extreme levels of audiophilism (may just have created a new word :>). I was wondering what advice you can give some of us out there on how to successfully exercise this extreme form of hobby if you can call it that!

Thanks for any advice.
Henry

mtkhl567