the darTZeel NHB-458 monoblocks arrived today. beautiful to look at, built like a swiss watch, and even brand new and just starting to break in magnificent to listen to. the energy and realism is staggering.

NHB-458 head on view

NHB-458 side angle view

mikelavigne November 15, 2012 05:01

hi Paulo,

Lubbock is in Texas, Seattle is (in the State of Washington) northwest of Texas 1500+ miles away on the Pacific Ocean, north of California. i live in the mountains east of Seattle.

my 100 WPC darTZeel Stereo NHB-108 has plenty of power to drive the 96db, 6 ohm efficient main towers of the MM7's. i can play music louder than i can endure and the 108 is not stressed. as i recall, the Eidolon's are more like 86db-88db, 4 ohm, so a considerably more challenging load for an amplifier.

i do have the big bad darTZeel NHB-458 monoblocks on the way to replace my 108; which hopefully should arrive in a few weeks. they are approx 450 watts into 8 ohms, and 1200 watts into 2 ohms. they should truely take control of the MM7's.

mikelavigne November 14, 2012 14:10

Hi Mike,
thanks.
I was several times in US and once on 1982, for a couple of weeks near you at Lubbock.
Back to your marvel of speakers and system, has the Dartzeel the capability to drive correctly these demanding speakers? though they, I suppose, are more efficent of my Eidolon, (I think), they need much more control.

caliaripaolo November 13, 2012 13:04

more MM7 thoughts.....

tonight is the first time i've actually pulled out music specifically related to deep bass (since the 'Earth Drums' cut the first night).....cuts known for having prodigious amounts of big fat bass.

first up were Patrica Barber's 'Light My Fire' and Holy Cole's 'Invitation to the Blues' off the server in 44/16. tunes we all know.

holy cow! it is big fat bass. but it's also very nailed down in the soundstage, has specific depth and shape, and tone and texture, a natural decay. these 2 cuts have more big full bass notes and not so much explosive bass. there are a number of quite different bass things going on too, it's so easy to hear everything.

and it's so physical!

then there is the air and ambience everything rides on. lots of other things going on in the mix at the same time and everything simply happens with no drama.....except for the music that is, which drips with drama and involvement on both tracks as the vocals are clear and expressive and nicely separated. and no reason to worry about riding the volume control on these cuts so it doesn't go into distortion. the only concern is SPL's being painfull.

everything is just so effortless and easy, the extreme dynamic capability being in service to the musical message. absolute bass performance corrupts absolutely.....or something like that. and i expect that the mono blocks will only add a greater mid-bass dynamics to this when they get added.....although i don't sense anything missing.

mikelavigne November 08, 2012 03:05

Paulo,

thanks.

i will hope your USA tour happens and that my room is one stop.

cheers,

mikelavigne November 07, 2012 16:25

great and incredible speaker Mike.
Thanks for your kindly invitation. I shall propose to my wife a tour on USA with your listening room as a milestone on the list of sites to visit, :-)

caliaripaolo November 05, 2012 14:28

Bill,

thanks....i saw the post where you referenced my phrase, thanks for that.

i've seen plenty of those photos of the misery from the devistation.....very sad. hope things get back to close to normal asap.

mikelavigne November 04, 2012 18:41

David,

i owned the Watt Puppy 3/2's back in the day (and the 5.1's and 6.0's too)....so i get your point....there are many more high performance speakers today than there once was. and the best is better than back then...maybe lots better.

many of us today are definitely 'living large' with great music reproduction performance in our homes.

mikelavigne November 04, 2012 18:37

Peter,

thanks.

lack of sleep is the only negative, and i'm serious about that. it's very difficult to leave the room at night. and in the morning i'm drawn back. i am on vacation this week so hopefully i'll find some balance on that issue.....or not.

i'm not complaining mind you, this is what i've wanted.

i've had the complete 2 tower set-up since Tuesday night. the main towers were laser dialed in 2 weeks ago and have not been moved. the tweeter adjustment on those is set at flat (which is all the way full). all the bass adjustments on the bass towers are set to flat, 40hz on the crossover. the bass towers are just 'eyeball'd' into position. i've done zero adjustments of any kind, i've just listened.

i had considered the main towers to be perfectly coherent by themselves; but adding the bass towers had actually improved the coherency and seamlessness....which was surprising. i've listened to all kinds of music, from large orchestral, to organ, to string quartets, to blues, jazz, big band, rock, and lots of vocals. almost all is familiar to me and i've not heard one note out of place. i think part of this is the woofers cover the mid-bass so perfectly without issue, and that is the toughest frequencies to get clear and linear.

it's almost like great bass acts like 'glue' holding everything in place and adding body and completness to everything.....while balancing things out.

i spoke to Kevin Malmgren (the designer) about this as i really could not believe what i was hearing. he said in some ways he was not surprised, that he had a hunch that set to 'flat' it might just be right for my room.

i do expect that when Jonathan visits later this week and takes a look on the RTA that there will be some issues for him to deal with. and then later when Kevin comes that some improvements are made. that is simply logical.....how could a speaker with such capabilities be 'prefect' without any adjustments?

later today a few golden ears will be here for a listening session; maybe they will be able to avoid my 'expectation bias' and percieve some issues.

there is no doubt that tape has gone to a whole new level now, really silly good. but so has vinyl. i've not had any chance or inclination to do comparitive listening to answer your question at this point on whether vinyl still competes directly. ask me in a couple more weeks.

mikelavigne November 04, 2012 17:52

Mike, Congratulations on the MM7s. I am one of the many who follow with interest your system thread. I have small two-way speakers and love the coherence and disappearance when playing something like Bach's Cello Suites or simple voice or guitar.

I'm curious about how seamless and coherent your massive towers with all of those drivers sound when listening to small scale music. I'm quite envious of how they must sound with full scale orchestral works and would be very impressed if they could reproduce small intimate stuff with equal finesse.

Also, how does tape compare to your top level vinyl chain? I think I remember you writing that with the Telos and Anna on the DD WK table you thought you were approaching the sound of master tapes.

Gotten much sleep lately?

peterayer November 04, 2012 16:18

it's RTR tape night with the big rig.

so far 4 different tapes. 2 Jazz, 1 latin salsa, and TP-003, Arnold Overtures....both reels. just finished reel 2.

Wow!

as good as it sounded with the MM3's, i was not prepared for what i just heard on the MM7's. those huge rolling cresendo's are like a real freight train coming thru my room. you know it's going off the tracks, it's got to be a train wreck. and then it simply happens just like it should and it's no big deal. i laughed my evil laugh....holy guacamole!

just so many wonderful things about this tape.

we can debate the music. but not the sound, it's really quite an amazing recording.

one of the jazz recordings had 2 piano's and was very high energy......very good recording. Jay MacShane, Milt Bruckner, Clarence Gatemouth Brown, and Arnett Cobb. the MM7's do piano like no other i have heard.

right now i need to select another tape and keep listening.....

mikelavigne November 04, 2012 06:35

Mike: the concept of 'less interpretation by the brain' is a very apt way of describing why some systems sound musical and others sound like reproductions. I'm going to borrow that concept in other discussions. Thank you. We are fine, thanks for asking. Lost power, etc. but no structural damage or personal injury. The village closest to us looks like a disaster movie, boats on the street, riverside homes flattened, debris everywhere.
I posted some pics on WBF in off topic. Pretty horrible, we have many friends there.

whart November 02, 2012 15:32

i remember reading years ago (in the audio press) how amazing the wilson Watt/Puppy 3/2 system was; you could barely pick the top cabinets up by yourself; they were so powerful that you didn't need a large "conventional" speaker anymore. just hook up a big krell or levinson amplifier to these mighty mites and you couldn't tell where the music was coming from. the dynamics, frequency extension, and of course imaging was state of the art.
Well, how far we've come from those days of yore, with behemoth systems making their "big" comeback. no doubt the effortless effect of having many drivers doing the work of few can be impressive and unforgettable. i just
have to wonder what happened to the imaging and disappearing act that
a small/modest well designed speaker system that seemed to capture everyone's imagination?
this system is no doubt one of the finest arrays available in the world today. the problem is Rocport, Kharma, Wilson, Magico, Nola, etc. ALL have the same ambitious designs, several that require 4 cabinets, and if you put
any one of them in this incredible room (let's hear it for this spacious room with treated walls and ceiling) you would have a jaw-dropping experience over and over and over again, just with a different set of nuances and system-dependent "tonalities". SO which one is the "best" can never be absolutely decided.
i heard the Wilson WAMM system 20 or so years ago and i can certainly attest to the effect a no-holes-barred system can have on the human nervous system. but no money and the lack of a large well-damped space to put that system into has kept that experience tucked away in my memories-not in my house. BUT it's great to see one of us mortals (congratulations Michael) attain that set-up in their own home.
AS for the rest of us poor slobs, we can always go see the symphony from time to time and still have a lot of fun.

french_fries November 02, 2012 14:01

hi Bill,

i trust you are coping ok with the aftermath of Sandy with minimal intrusion on you and your family.

yes, the MM7's do make the music so relaxed and effortless. easier for the ears and less interpretation by the brain.

my only real problem is i'm not getting much sleep.

and then there will be the mono blocks and another layer of the onion will peel back.

take care,

mikelavigne November 02, 2012 13:57

From your first reactions, Mike it sounds like the word that sums it up is 'effortless.' And I imagine that with the big amps coming, that quality will be even more apparent. They look just right, now. Sort of 'system in balance' or whatever the Eastern concept is.
I look forward to your reading about your experience as you get in deep.
Best,
bill hart

whart November 02, 2012 03:04

hi Mike,

thanks. and to answer your question; no, set flat the bass towers have proper room to breathe.....i get no sense of overload or doubling at any SPL my ears can handle. although i respect that at some point the speakers likely can keep going and the room might overload. here is a something i posted last night on another forum that speaks to that question;

i've been avoiding audiophile 'sounds' demo discs. however, i just played one of the true torture tests of bass impact, extension, and tonality and overall energy. 'paramita', He Xun Tain, CD. track 7, Earth Drums. it's a 7 minute endurance test for a system and one's ears and comfort. i've heard it on many systems. i did not use an SPL meter, but likely in the 100-110 db range (maybe higher on peaks) i would guess with walloping deep impactful bass with a high energy pace.

like a warm knife thru butter. child's play. the MM7's simply smirked and did not even breathe hard. total coherence, not a trace of hardness or compression. sledge-hammer impact, but perfectly controlled, both the leading edge, impact, and release. the nuance and micro-dynamics of each note was natural and complete. nice decay and ambience. totally effortless.

even the dart stereo 108 was not even stressed at all only having a 96db, 6 ohm load to deal with. the only limitation was my tolerance for pain. unfortunately us humans cannot endure what might test this beast.

my room does have a large volume at 29' x 21' x 11'. and even though i did remove the large front corner bass traps, my whole drop ceiling is still a bass trap which has huge internal volume, and i still have 4 built in bass traps along the rear wall that are floor to ceiling height. so it's designed for full-tilt boggie type bass. the other thing is bass volume is one thing, lots of big speakers and subwoofers can do volume; however; clean very low distortion bass is another thing altogether. and with so little cone excursion needed from the woofer drivers and subwoofer drivers the bass is very linear and clean.

mikelavigne November 01, 2012 12:52

Congrats Mike, sounds like you're going through an audio roller-coaster ride.

Question, with the addition of bass towers, does the speaker system overload the room when you push it?

mikelakers November 01, 2012 05:27

hi Geoff,

thanks for the kind words.

it will be interesting to see how the MM7 spell affects my friends this weekend.

stay tuned.

mikelavigne November 01, 2012 05:08

Thanks Sam.

and yes, the dart 458's are still on the way. i think within a week i'll 'know' when they will be here.

mikelavigne November 01, 2012 05:04

hello Adam,

i truely appreciate all the nice things you have written, thank you. you do know the history of my system. happy to have provided some entertainment for you and your friends over the years. as you know, great sound does not need to be over-the-top expensive, it's more a state-of-mind and result of a good plan and good thinking. trust me; my expensive system has certainly sounded like crap from time to time. so i respect that a modest appearing system can sound great. hopefully you influenced your friends to pursue fine audio too.

i look forward to continuing to share my MM7 and 'almost here' dart 458 experiences. i'll post some better MM7 pictures soon.

again thanks for your thoughful post.

best regards,

mikelavigne November 01, 2012 05:01

thanks Gary.

mikelavigne November 01, 2012 04:46

Thanks Albert, i appreciate the kind words.

i'm really enjoying it.

mikelavigne November 01, 2012 04:45

Paulo,

even though you live far away, that does not mean you cannot visit. if you ever are in the area you would be most welcome.

the twin towers are worth a bit of effort to hear. :)

mikelavigne November 01, 2012 04:43

My oh my, they look stupendous.

Your "few fully sane local friends" may start off that way but they will probably not end up that way. The loudspeakers look insane - and they probably sound insane.

Absolutely fabulous.

I live vicariously through your adventures.

Regards,

metralla November 01, 2012 03:43

Hey Mike,

CooL!
You're going to run these with the bigger Darts...right?

Best,
Sam

c1ferrari November 01, 2012 03:39