i considered being politically correct and not allow myself to get too over the top after one night. but that would simply be blowing smoke.

i've heard a number of state of the art speakers in my time.....and quite esoteric systems. i've been to my share of shows and high end stores. i've never heard anything like this before. and as good as the main towers were, you cannot even compare the main towers to the full 2 tower system. it's a whole different paradigm.

and this is with simply sitting the main towers in place, putting the tweeters at full, setting the bass towers in place and setting all the adjustments to flat and the crossover at 40hz. so far thru yesterday afternoon, the main towers have 230 hours of breakin, the bass towers started playing at 7:00pm last night. so one would think that with careful set up by the speaker designer, and hundreds more hours, and maybe even better amplification it should get better.

adding the bass towers yields dividends thru the whole frequency range, fleshing things out and adding 'ease', nuance, and tonal complexity. and think about how linear the bass is; 4 15" powered subs per channel, each in their own 150 pound sealed box, needing only the slightest excursion even at very low frequecies. and perfectly blended into the -4- 11" woofers. the complete sense of effortlessness and seamlessness is off-putting when listening to any familiar music. really breathtaking and laugh inducing. you gotta be kidding!!!

the room and speakers seem to be perfectly matched, and speak with one voice. all the work i've put into the system seems to have come together.

the music is so much less hifi, less reproduced, less processed, and more immediate, more real, more not constrained by technical limitations. the music has such a higher emotional content; not by any tonal warmth or artifact; but by simply allowing the signal to be fully rendered.

expectation bias? honeymoon syndrome? placebo effect? nope.

i guess i've left myself little room for future rationalizations. not that i think i will need it.

i think a few fully sane local friends will likely visit in the next few days/weeks....maybe they can add their more objective perspectives.

mikelavigne October 31, 2012 22:10

Mike,

I have been following the changes in your system since the time of the Wilson/Levinson/CD12/Rockport to the Kharma/Tenor/Emmlabs, the VR-9s, and the DART 108/Evolution MM3/wave kinetics/playback designs. I have always enjoyed seeing the images of your incredible room and equipment and the inspiration it provides. Notably, I am quick to visit your system page to demonstrate to my non-audiophile friends the ne plus ultra of audio when they are shocked and amazed with my more modest system. I also very much enjoy reading your insightful and eloquent posts. I was eager to see the real-life pics of the MM7 in your room as there has been such little press and no actual photos of the them on the web aside from the computer rendering on the EA website. They look incredible and I'm sure you are enjoying their output. I look forward to reading of your experiences with them along with the eventual implementation of the 458s. Congratulations.

adamg October 31, 2012 17:53

Awesome Mike!
Congrats

grr6001 October 31, 2012 11:37

Congratulations Mike, they look better in your room than the literature images I saw last year.

It will take some effort to dial everything in but you are definitely going to be able to move the air with those.

This could well be your ultimate upgrade. I'm happy for you.

albertporter October 31, 2012 04:15

they are here!

all 4 towers

right towers

left towers

excuse my sucky phtography, i just wanted to get a few pics up.

beyond my imagination.....

mikelavigne October 31, 2012 03:10

Hi Mike,

hi David,

i hear that you are now an Evolution Acoustics MM3 owner. if so, congrats to you and welcome to the Evolution family. :)

I have a few questions in relation to your room since you have been there and done that.

You have made some serious changes within design.

#1 When you installed the QuietRock was this placed on the front and/or side walls only?

the problem i had to solve was threefold. (1) i had unequal room boundaries since one side was stuctural, and one side was not. the less 'firm' side was acting slightly like a diaphram and i was getting unequal bass response. (2) the room was overdamped, too much built-in bass trapping. (3) the huge fabric covered bass traps knocked down too much high frequency energy.

the Quietrock THX 545 was added onto the existing 'cocoon' of double layer sheetrock that was behind the 10' x 15' front corner bass traps i removed. then i added a layer of 3/4" finish grade ply over the Quietrock. this change established very strong and equal room boundaries on each side, elminated the bass traps, and replaced the fabric with the finish ply 'live' surface.

i also put the Quietrock and ply on the ceiling wells front and rear where i sealed the opennings to the ceiling bass trap.

then i added the Auralex T-Fusors to there new large reflective surfaces to control any slap echo.

#2 Side walls extending how far out, to the edge of your hardwood flooring at 10 ft or further.

the room shape is basically an oval, with no sharp corners. not exactly sure what you are asking....maybe restate the question.

#3 why did you install the 3/4 inch ply good one side offer top, sonic wise what was the benifits.

added mass and aesthetics. i was trying to really solidify that wall on either side of the speakers to give the room maximum leverage for the bass. the Quietrock did most of the work, the 3/4" ply just helped. i could have painted out the Quietrock.

#4 the half round diffuser in the middle at the front you had built but now are using RPG Skyline diffuser system placed on top.

i found that the half round was not precise enough in that critical spot. the half round did a good job overall in making things sound natural and even, but the Skylines really focused the center image. really simply a low diffusion approach verses a very agressive diffusion approach.

From what you have now learned would you have still built this round diffuser or just gone flat and then used these RPG diffusers?

i cannot say with confidence that i would; however, my feeling is that the half round has a positive effect on the overall sound by scatering refections and preventing any hot spots.

#5 Curious about the rest of your room build and what if you were to do another room.

i would build exactly the same room without the original front bass traps.....and simply solifiying that wall on the right side more in the initial build. the 'bones' of the room are perfect. and the designer did tell me that it's better to build in more bass trapping than i might need as it's easy to remove but building in more later is hard.

the room does space like no other room i have ever heard, and it has a great feel and energy.

#6 you are now using Auralex T-Fusor diffusers on the sides and other areas just on top of the quietrock ans 3/4" ply correct?

correct.

#7 have you placed anything inside? is so what and sonic wise what did you find the differences to be. 6 each on the front side walls, and 4 each front ceiling and rear ceiling.

correct on the count.

no; my T-Fusors are empty. if you add any stuffing then the T-Fusors will be absorbtive and it will dampen energy and change tonality.

Room designers all appear to have their own thoughts including the actual construction method build and most I have heard for 2 channel just sounded to dead, more like for home theatre.

the whole philosophy of my room is about retainig energy everywhere. use diffusion, and minimal absorbtion. it's easy to throw absorbtion at a room to control things. it takes much more thinking and effort to control reflections to retain energy.

simply observe a concert hall. diffusion everywhere. a wood floor stage. no absorbtion.

that is the model to aspire to.

Those new speakers are looking Amazing! :)

thanks. the bass towers arrive this afternoon!!!

mikelavigne October 30, 2012 14:05

Hi Mike,
incredible speakers.
My best congratulations. If the city of Mantova (where I live) was not so far away I would ask you for a listen session.
If you desire to look for Vicoustic panel, I just published my system.
Waiting to see (unfortunately without hear) your system when bass towers will arrive.
Ciao

caliaripaolo October 30, 2012 13:15

Hi Mike,

I have a few questions in relation to your room since you have been there and done that.

You have made some serious changes within design.

#1 When you installed the QuietRock was this placed on the front and/or side walls only?

#2 Side walls extending how far out, to the edge of your hardwood flooring at 10 ft or further.

#3 why did you install the 3/4 inch ply good one side offer top, sonic wise what was the benifits.

#4 the half round diffuser in the middle at the front you had built but now are using RPG Skyline diffuser system placed on top.

From what you have now learned would you have still built this round diffuser or just gone flat and then used these RPG diffusers?

#5 Curious about the rest of your room build and what if you were to do another room.

#6 you are now using Auralex T-Fusor diffusers on the sides and other areas just on top of the quietrock ans 3/4" ply correct?

#7 have you placed anything inside? is so what and sonic wise what did you find the differences to be. 6 each on the front side walls, and 4 each front ceiling and rear ceiling.


Room designers all appear to have their own thoughts including the actual construction method build and most I have heard for 2 channel just sounded to dead, more like for home theatre.

Those new speakers are looking Amazing! :)

dev October 30, 2012 02:55

Lawrence,

yes; i do look forward to the truths revealed by recording 'live' in my room. it will be an education i'm sure.

thanks.

mikelavigne October 27, 2012 05:08

Ron,

the dart 108 is really such a great amp that set the bar so high that Herve had to really pull out all the stops without limits to surpass it. the 458 is more an amp that showed what was possible.

having had both amps in my room at the same time 2 years ago for a month, there is no doubt that the 458's do things which are unique, even fantastic. but; the 108 does prove just what an outstanding amp it is when used on a speaker which is a reasonable load. so the need for an amp 'in between' is not as significant from the perspective of the performance as it might be from a marketing point of view.

as i sit here listening to the 108 on the main towers of the MM7's it is really amazing. hard to imagine a better sounding amp.

having the MM7's all set up with the 108 for a few weeks will clearly demonstrate the relative upgrade for sure when the 458's land.

mikelavigne October 27, 2012 05:05

for those interested, this is a picture of the crossover in each MM7 main tower.....and is where the magic happens.

it took Kevin most of three weeks to build 2 of these for my set of MM7's, and this was the third pair built.

it is first order......and sits nested in the middle section with the tweeter and mid-range drivers.

depending how you look at it; the MM7's are a 3-way plus integral powered subs, or a 4-way. the woofers run free at the bottom and the subwoofers crossover to blend.

mikelavigne October 27, 2012 03:18

Mike - Wow, those Dart monos are something else! Dart definitely has a devout following and I am surprised that they don't have an amp that falls somewhere in-between those behemoths and the model NHB-108. There must be owners that can't make that level of leap but would consider spending more than what a 108 would cost them...

Good on ya, I am sure that they will bring your system to new heights and its nice that you'll have the full MM7s in place prior to their arrival so inserting them after the NHB-108 will offer a wonderful presentation of what they can do.

Ron

rgd October 27, 2012 00:17

and Bill, i'll bet in the next few days you'll be wishing you were already in Austin enjoying the sunshine and mild weather.

mikelavigne October 26, 2012 23:37

Bill,

the MM7 main towers are much more 'svelt' compared to the MM3's. and since they are 8 inches taller they appear to be 'thin'...although in truth they are massive and dense. so i agree that they look a bit 'lonely' by themselves. the 'brutish' Bass Towers will be even taller and wider and agree that it should look more in balance with them added to the look.

i'm a bit of a neat-nik as i manage a car dealership with 150 employees and fighting clutter is one of my main duties, it's a constant stuggle to maintain a proper environment for customers to be comfortable. so when i get home i need things in their place to be in my comfort zone and relax. so my room reflects my sense of orderlyness. combine that with having to sell everything i could possibly live without to afford my recent excesses and you can see the result.

best wishes at staying safe, dry and warm through the storm. i hope your power stays on so you can listen.

mikelavigne October 26, 2012 23:36

hi Jason,

i have finally recovered from my lifting last week. at least these bass tower sections are lighter (140/150 pounds each compared to 190-200 pounds each for the main tower sections) and smaller since there are 4 instead of 3.

i'll have plenty of help....and post some pics.

mikelavigne October 26, 2012 23:21

Mike, the pictures are very good. Two reactions: first, the existing speakers towers look almost lonely without the accompanying bass towers, not matter how absurd that seems, given the size of the speakers already in place. Second, I like how uncluttered your room looks. Lot's of over the top systems (and you gotta admit, you are in that league) are so filled with gear that, while it makes the gearheads happy, the aesthetic of the room is swamped by 'stuff.' That is not the case with your room- I think part of it, as we mature, is to pick out the stuff that works, and make it simpler, rather than more complicated. I look forward to seeing pics of the bass towers in place. Enjoy. We are battening down for another storm of the century. We've had 6 or 7 in the 9 years I've lived in this house.

whart October 26, 2012 20:40

Hi Lawrence, I agree live music is the reference point and live music feed to air over the radio can give wonderful results when recorded on RTR. The best music quality I hear on New Zealand radio stations is when they have musicians in the studio playing live to air.
Mike not long now I bet you are getting excited, be careful with your back lifting those big sub bins. I know what moving heavy loudspeakers is like, I am looking forward to seeing the pictures.

jasonparmenter October 26, 2012 18:53

Agreed have music recorded ~In~ your room can really tell you a story about your system including hearing it while its being recorded!

good for you :)

Lawrence
Musical Arts

lharasim October 26, 2012 18:36

thanks Lawrence,

barge in anytime, by all means.

i love live music, and appreciate what live music over FM is capable of sounding like. a good friend is the music director/conductor/composer of a local Chamber Orchestra and i've sponsored performances of theirs (thru the company i manage) from time to time for 15 years, and advertise in his program. i don't get to as much live music as i would like to, but agree it's important as part of one's musical path.

my aim is maybe to record some live music in my room from time to time if i can. i have a number of RTR decks including a couple vintage Ampex's; a 350-2 and 351-2 both with tubed mic pre's. my conductor friend also has a jazz guitar band that we have talked about doing that with.

mikelavigne October 26, 2012 12:44

Just got word the bass towers of the MM7's will ship tomorrow and i'll have them on Tuesday. :)

mikelavigne October 26, 2012 02:26

sorry to barge in here mike...Here in the chicagoland area we have probably the best classical station in the country WFMT 98.7...I get a daily dose ..they have plenty of live and pre-recored in there studio music + pipedreams on sunday!! right now they are doing tribute to Sir georg Solti

excellent live feeds that i sometimes attend...IMO its important to hear live music on a regular basis to keep you going in the right direction...unless you just like hifi and are not trying to bring the live musical event to your home...

Lawrence
Musical Arts

lharasim October 25, 2012 06:28

Mike, that radio content is available on the web along with commentary, blogs,
and the like so you can participate (if you want to) in what you liked/didn't like
what you heard. it may not sound that great magnified over your big rig, but
you should check it out, especially if you're looking for new music. i heard Nielson #4 the other day (last thursday 10/17) and i thought it was really great. they feature top performers and orchestras, string quartets, etc. and feature
concerts from Europe, Tanglewood music festival, the Proms in England, the list goes on and on. i don't want to harp on this too much, but there is so much music i haven't been exposed to that i might potentially love, i have to tell people about it. plus yes, i give the local classical radio station a yearly contribution in the hopes they will stay on the air- you wouldn't believe that a city the size of Miami can't come up with more than 20,000 or so patrons.
i should also warn you that before you get your bass cabinets to do some push-ups and sit-ups (and keep a bottle of tylenol handy just in case). -since you seem to enjoy this hobby "so much"...! just kidding....

french_fries October 25, 2012 05:01

hi Sarah,

great to hear from you! i hope you are enjoying your fine system(s). and i fondly remember my Marantz SA-1, it was a great sounding player.

the bass towers will be set up to the outside of the main towers. to give you an idea of how it will look, the main towers are 15 inches wide, the bass towers are 18 inches wide. there will be from 5 inches to 12 inches between them. there is 5 feet between the main towers and the wall, so there is plenty of room. here is a rendering of the MM7's in that configuration.

any time you are in the Seattle area you would be welcome to visit for a listen, i hope you dcan do it sometime.

mikelavigne October 25, 2012 00:18

hi David,

thanks. and i'm sure your system sounds great! it's not a contest but a pathway we are all on....each a bit different. we are all enjoying the music as we see fit, enjoy sharing that enjoyment, the talk about gear, and our experiences. hopefully we make a few friends along the way amd make our lives better.

a little competition happens, it's unavoidable....boys with their toys. but it's a sideline to the rest of it....or should be.

my 'family' (my wife and grown children) understand and respect my desire to explore the possibilities of music reproduction. they understand the joy and friendships it's brought me, and the years it's delayed my retirement. they respect that it's a balance to the obligations i've always fulfilled. i'm lucky to have such support.

my 'paradigm in my head' that i'm searching for is really nothing more complicated than wanting a music reproduction system that gets out of the way of the music to the highest degree possible, and to have plenty of music recordings in thier purest forms on hand to listen to. maybe also to have a comfortable room and setting where i can enjoy this and share it with like minded people.

this is the same vision i've had for years, and one that is not that unusual in this hobby.

we likely share this vision to some degree, and i also have a Home Theatre and multiple other media rooms in the house and barn.....including a whole house B&O system. but unlike you, when not in my 2-channel room, i don't have music playing around the house myself, although my wife does have it on in background quite often. of couse, i'm in my 2-channel room many hours a day. everyone's personal culture is a bit different.

i respect your love of the live broadcasts over the radio. and i know that live FM broadcasts can have absolutely amazing fidelity since they approach a live mic feed. unfortunately; i have a 4000 foot ridge between my home and the radio towers around Seattle (likely not a problem for you in Florida) so my mountain living does eliminate FM broadcasts.

i don't especially enjoy the logistical and physical efforts to move around and set up large speakers. but i am energized by the anticipation of what these speakers can do (as are my friends) so it does not seem like any imposition at all. i'm looking forward to the opportunity to unpack and set up the bass towers. i wish it was tonight!!!

and while things are now more complicated than my Wollensak reel to reel tape recorder i had 45 years ago in High School, i think it is worth it to me.

i'm having fun!

best regards,

mikelavigne October 25, 2012 00:08

Mike, I've not checked in in a long time but have been following this latest iteration of what was always a superb system. Where on earth will you be setting up your bass towers? Beside or behind the main towers? Back off against the curved wall? And how will they be amped? It seems like your whole view will be speakers once you're done. You have an enormous room but I still have trouble picturing how all this equipment will fit in it. You and I used to have a SACD player in common (the Marantz SA-1) but now all we have in common are the ceramic cable isolators you're using behind your speakers! Would love to hear your system sometime.
Enjoy this new set-up and thanks so much for the pictures.
--Sarah (lone female audiophile on this site?)

sc53 October 23, 2012 20:53