Audio Hobby Thoughts, Philosophy & System Description
Current Room Anchors - Room 1 and 2 active
Room 1 - Matrix 800's anchors - for creating that ..........Maxell Tape Effect.
Room 2 - (Adjacent to Room 1) - Quad 57 + two Dynaudio BM12s subs - Midrange reference
Room 3 - Acoustat Model 3 - Modded - upstairs - For imaging larger than life (literally speaking) - see last picture. Unfortunately is next to my wifes TV room. So it gets limited use.
Stored - B&W Electrostatic DM70c Continental - Wife calls them the washing machines. John Bowers called them his favorite speaker. Very interesting and very rare. Could anchor a room but they need special placement and lots of room. ESL portion needs to be 100% functional and at ear level or they will sound soft.
Room 2 is mostly digital, guests, and used for trialing used unplayed records before they make the queue for room 1. Room 1 has been called by my family as Dads Hole. I prefer panic room as it helped to raise my kids and stay married...so far.
Psychology Part
Music is critical to ones health and well being. I went through a couple stretches in life due to events without it and the results were not good. The goal for me to get lost in the music and have it transport me to that special place. Now whether you get there by a typical 2 channel home stereo with speakers, headphones, or other means is not important. Getting there is the important part.
Audiophile not.....
Have always been the type that if I frequent a room enough, a system usually ends up in there. My wife finally put an end to this, and allows me to do what I want in the full basement of our house.....so..... In this described virtual system, I have had Room A since 1994. Adjacent Room B is in the process of being finished, but I have been using it for listening for a few years now adding in room treatments as needed.
History
Like many others, have been at this audio hobby since I was about 13 when I was consciously aware of the gear versus the actual music relationship. I am now 55 and currently with two adjacent music rooms setup with different gear. Both rooms can do full orchestra symphonies with large dynamic swings. Getting Room B with the Quad 57's to do this was a challenge; but I was able to get it to work with the right amps and powered subs. The Quads require a very different room acoustic setup over the Matrix 800's in Room A.
I am a pure amateur, audiophile, music lover, past trombone player, and have never been part of the Audio Business as a manufacturer, dealer, distributor, or have any special interest relationships with any of these people. I consider myself a full time music lover, and part time audiophile; although I have friends that could argue this point. I have tried to upload pics and information here, that give a flavor of some of my audio journeys, and associated bouts of Audiophilia Nervosa. :^)
"Audio Heaven, is for Music Lovers - Audiophiles are never happy.
With that, in the real, authentic, Heaven; there is room, even for Audiophiles"
8^0
Living in the country
Having moved away from the city core in the 90's, I have found that audiophiles away from the cities, are in general, scare to find and or keep to themselves. Many of my audio friends are now remote, due to the distance between us; so only virtual communications are possible most of the time.
The negative aspects of Isolation aside; one good aspect of living in the country is the clean power and lack of noise and vibrations caused by traffic, trucks, etc...Once experienced and its effect on your listening, you become very aware of the multitude of audiophile products available as band aids, to cover, veil, but never eliminate these artifacts in densely populated areas.
I was born in the 60's so I grew up with Classic Rock, Beatles, etc... But I love all music, new music and Opera hits home with me. I played trombone in Jr and High school so the Bass Clef has a bias with me. Listen more now to the ladies crooning at me, Classical and Jazz with occasional Classical Rock; I think a well recorded full Orchestra Symphony with huge Dynamic swings has the most magic for me.
***** MAIN ROOM aka Panic Room, Dad's Hole, ....*****
I have had Room A since 1994. It has 3 dedicated lines 20, 20 , 15. This room is personal use. Room B is more for entertaining and spending time with friends.
Room A is much better insulated and isolated from my wife. As much as I would like to move the Matrix 800's to the larger Room B space to try them, it would probably just get me that much more trouble.
Room A and B are both located on a concrete poured floor. A has a an underpad and flat carpet on top. Spikes from gear stands and speakers are able to penetrate to the concrete with no problem ensuring a solid mechanical connection. The speakers are located 6 feet from the front wall with the room being 24 ft in length. Putting in the 800's over the 801's meant that some of the room treatments were able to be removed due to the 800's double woofers high and low. This is also one of the reasons I call them very room friendly.
1/4 inch 2 track machine. The three pictures attached. Top Left - known as two turntables. my machine being worked on Middle pic - 807 Top Right Pic. A picture of Roger Ginsley with a 48 track machine he is about to split into two 24 tracks. My Studer 807 is calibrated by him. He is also the one that makes the interconnects I use with it.
JC Verdier La Platine Vintage Granito Original Design
2012
http://www.jcverdier.com/ADSL/platineVintage.html
Just a delight to use. With its presentation, sends the message home that it is all amount the music. Effortless, seamless, but experience is needed is setting up the thread. A real Goldilocks scenario of the thread being too loose, too tight or just right. Different thread tensions alternate how the motor and platter work together and change the speed. The objective is to get the correct speed with as little effect from the motor. ....
Original design. Granito Model My version uses a motor only equipped for thread Granito base and solid aluminum billet armpod. The later newer motors are equipped now for belts too - but no one runs them this way that I know of. This decision was made imo to generate more sales as it is easier to setup. But imo the belt grip would play havoc with the motor / magnets marriage which was designed for thread. I would think that belt stretch and its physical changes with temp and humidity changes would also cause problems, and interfere with the natural braking action of the magnets. This is my opinion as mine is thread only. There is a greater learning curve involved with thread.
This is the only turntable I am aware of whose platter design includes both acceleration (inertia) and braking (natural forces from same pole magnets) to deal with the records behavior - going from soft to heavily modulated grooves. The motor design, like a marriage with the platter. Think of the childhood merry go rounds that once up to speed - even a little girl could keep them going. To understand how the motor and platter are like a marriage, one need only turn the motor off and the platter spins for 30 seconds with the thread attached. However cut the thread while the platter is turning, and the platter stops much quicker as the two magnets demonstrate their braking capability. Impressive to me is just the plain simplicity of design using physics to get the job done with a piece of string and magnets. I found it important in setup to have the thread positioned in a way that is the least intrusive on the platter; so as to allow the platter to not only do its job as designed; but to also provide the needed jolts as required from the motor to maintain speed stability.
In my opinion - you will know when you have set it up properly because you are able to turn the motor off and on and also deflect the thread with your finger - as the records plays - and not affect the music delivery to your ears. I base this when compared directly to 15 IPS Master Tape dubs. In testing for accuracy I run both simultaneously with one lagging 10 seconds behind the other and switch between the two - compensating for gain as tape is a high level signal. When the thread is setup in this fashion there is minimal stress put on it. The current silk thread I am using has recently passed the one year mark. Overall Big Sound from a small piece of thread.
Some facts Magnetic bearing design. Brass colored rings are big shielded permanent magnets; same magnet poles repelling each other. The result is "levitation" the space you see between them. No thrust bearing involved. A central spindle bathed in a special oil keeps them aligned. For me personally I did not know what TT bearing noise sounded like until I heard music on a TT without a physical bearing. The plinth is made of Granito. Granito is not real granite but a non-resonant material that looks and feels like granite. A limited edition model.
"Granito is a material composed by little pieces of marble of very different origin agglomerated inside a mold with cement. Machined and polished. The resonance of the plinth with its suspension is about 5Hz and it is well absorbed by the air cavities."
Mr. JC Verdier Note: Newer Platines are provided with a setup bearing. The manual is very clear on the setup bearing. It is just that - a setup tool only. COUNTERFEIT PLATINES Unfortunately there are non-authentic tables out there worldwide from 20 different counterfeiting makers. These tables are out there with people using them. If anyone is unaware of this, see the Platine Information on the JC Verdier website for more info.
The only advice I can give is when buying a Verdier Platine you should be careful to ensure it is a real Platine, especially if buying privately. If you already have one and have doubts, check with an authorized dealer or J.C. Verdier company in France to ensure it is authentic.
Custom Eminent Technology Model 2.5 for MC Carts
This is a custom build ET 2.5 Tonearm from Bruce Thigpen - A 19 PSI design.I am using the new Long I Beam. Weights are reduced by half and therefore the vertical inertia is higher - a goal of the design. The Aluminum Gooseneck was sourced from NZ. It was through Richard Krebs also an ET2 owner. I am using Single Shot WBT wiring, Aluminum mount plate. Magnesium armtube. Double Leaf Spring and damping trough. If you are an ET2 owner you know what I am talking about :^).... Advantages of the ET2 airbearing linear tracker tonearm - no VTF changes with VTA adjustment, no offset setup, antiskating and immunity to acoustic feedback, as it rides on film of air.
One shot wire. Run at 19 PSI. Damping trough with 1 cc of Oil. Lead weights at the very end of the I Beam.
VTA on the fly while the record plays and it doesn't change any parameters (VTF) like all other tonearms do. This is due to a patented VTA on the fly system. Have you ever noticed how with same thickness records....some can sound brighter, some bloated and some just right? When they press the records the different plants can have different standards. Records are then cut with varying angles.. even same thickness ones.
See ET2 Bass Management Below
Tonearm Wiring Loom - One shot WBT NextGen
2011 One shot wiring loom for the ET 2.5. WBT 0102 CU connectors. The design of the ET2 (2.5) allows for this wiring to be changed out in about 10 minutes. Silver and copper can be experimented with.
The PUMP ET2
Life Support for the ET2's. Timeter 3000 Medical Industrial Pump. The most important part of the ET2 arms setup. Industrial commercial grade medical pump. Its actually a patient respirator.
These have an hours counter and come up for sale cheaply on ebay. If you have space in your basement somewhere they are turnkey once set up.
I have tried large aquarium pumps, smaller medical pumps, compressors.
This Timeter Medical 50 psi pump has been customized to allow me to regulate air pressure coming out and send 19 psi to the ET2 tonearms. Another regulator with gauge at the arm allows me to accurately adjust for the PSI coming into the arm. Located in another room -cannot be heard in sound room when running.
The smoothness of air delivery is excellent. No resonance. The pump dumps/expels moisture like a car's AC. Have never seen a drop in the moisture collector; other than one incident when the pump outlet clogged with minerals from the moisture. I now soak the pump outlet in CLR for 2 hours every two months.
ET2 In Room Air Regulator & Filter
2nd Regulator and Filter on wall near the ET arm. Confirms and controls the 19 psi and also filters out moisture in line. Have never seen any moisture in this filter. This device lets me change the pressure going to the arm by just turning the top mounted knob. This regulator is mobile. It can be placed in my lap while the music is playing and pressure adjusted to hear how it affects the music delivery.
Audio Research DAC8
From a DAC only function perspective identical to the ARC REF DAC except the output stage is tubed on the REF. Interesting read. :^)
Owned many many years. Modded power supply box. Variable Gain for dealing with hot, and compressed source material - Digital and Analog. On the fly cartridge impedance loading. Used in ARC's hotrod mode. Direct output and bypass switch engaged. Amperex Bugle Boys.
Matrix 800
Unique one time all assault effort from B&W at a time when 2 channel was the focus. Smooth, musical yet still detailed. Room Friendly if you can believe it. Imagine 4 subs two high and two low pointed at you for 2 channel music. Each driver 2 woofer, mids, tweeter have their own crossover easily accessible from the back.
They were a 2 1/2 year study from Bowers & Wilkins under John Bowers (RIP). I have looked for a long time for a pair. The only time they become available are through owners going to a smaller condo (retiring or divorce).
All B&W 800 models that followed the Matrix series are the same only in model designation - 800. They are not a replacement or upgrade. They are a different build, design, objectives, sound. Post Matrix 800's are a smaller speaker system (require a sub for full range); they do have better WAF (more easily placed into a shared room with the wife)
800 matrix can be played at low and high levels with the right amp. 93db 2.83 volts/1m, Mine are Quad wired. They can be run on four separate amps if one desires as each driver has its own crossover.
Top and bottom woofers each excite a different set of waves. These waves cancel each other out. Thats the theory. My listening supports this. Smooth tight bass. It is quite something to experience since their size make you think they will over take the room. Also IMO each woofer works only half as much with four versus two for the desired SPL. All of this results in a very flexible listening position. All drivers are physically isolated with separate crossovers and Van Den Hul silver wiring from the factory. I run them with both tubes and Solid State. Krell and the modded Music Reference RM9.
Krell Amplifier Story My research found me talking with Dan D'Agostino who used matrix 800's as his reference speakers when he designed this era of Krell amps. Specifically the FPB series like my FPB600. On a dedicated 20 amp circuit with upgraded 20 amp power cord using Furutech Gold IEC.
RM9 Push Pull Tube Amp. Used to power Acoustat, 801, 800 speakers. WBT 0700 Connectors. KT88 output tubes. Hardwired for 4 ohm tap. Total Overhaul done April 2015
MATRIX 800 INSTALL
Installation
800 Series Bass Alignment Filter / Equalizer.
The graph shows the 801 matrix frequency response with and without the filter.
All 800 series B&W matrix speakers are an active design and are intended to be used with an equalizer by the designer (John Bowers) to achieve the best frequency response.
This attached graph was sent to me by B&W Europe years ago
It is the frequency plot for the 801 matrix "without" using the supplied Bass Alignment Filter. (not sure if it is 801 s2 or s3)
B&W England are the ones that drew the two dotted lines on the graph.
The 801 matrix speakers were designed to be used with the BAF. The speakers with BAF devices were shipped to original owners. But these devices became lost as speakers changed hands. They pop up on their own on ebay.
The two interesting parts.
Part 1
Not only does adding the BAF filter as designed give you a smoother response and allow the speaker to hit 20 hz. The BAF makes the 801 matrix speaker much more efficient. The ohm ratings can be seen on the right 8 - 6 - 4 - 2 ohms. The 801 matrix s2 and s3 are a very easy 6 ohm steady load with the active equalization provided by the BAF. This opens up amp choices.
Part 2
Audiophile opinions on the BAF device are kind of split. Not sure if its an even 50% like it, 50% don't like it, but you have the two camps. Why the difference? The room; its acoustic properties, and how the 801 (aka relationship destroyer) deals with it. There is a reason B&W no longer make the 801. You need a dedicated room. Its makes no business sense.
801 matrix owners today (there are many out there and some reading here), that could NOT make the BAF work with the speaker; or who never used it, or even heard of the BAF before; are taxing their amps way more to make bass with the 801.
************ SECOND ROOM ***********************
A backwards seven with the main section 20 -23. This room is the "top of the Seven". It is separated from the bottom portion of the Number 7 shape (12 x 24) by a heavy curtain. It is also adjacent to my other room of which the door is left open. The back of the room has the stairs that go upstairs. One of the pictures has me standing on the stairs. All this makes for a much bigger room as far as sound volume and space is concerned. An in progress dedicated listening space that accommodates different speaker types.
03/31/2011 Dynamic, ESL, Planar IMO - We listen to our rooms. The speakers in the rooms are like boats. They both represent freedom to me. A 12 foot aluminum boat is perfect for a small lake and your favourite person. But out on the ocean or a big body of water The water/boat analogy in this case is like your room and speakers. Water waves versus sound waves. There is no perfect boat and no perfect speaker. This is because all our rooms are different and the room is the big rock in this audiophile game. Speakers represent the last piece in the audio chain. Their sound represents everything in your audio chain especially the room, before it reaches your ears. Every piece will have an effect on what is heard. This IMO is why it is so important to have a good source. The last few years my speakers have remained intact and I have concentrated on improving the source components. Each time I improved the source my main speakers improved as well. This tells me they are not a bottleneck and I have not yet reached their limits.
Dynaudio Acoustics BM12s - Two of these in my Quad Room B .
Two of these in Room B - 18hz - 60 hz.
4th order Linkwitz- Riley crossovers have a really steep slope past 60 hz.
On paper this made them look like a really good match for the Quad 57's; but how does such a small box make 18 hz. They have class a/b amps are 4 ohms.
I brought them home and demoed them. Very Punchy, Clean and they go really low. A great match with the raised Wayne Picquet Quad 57's. They are placed under the speakers - see pic in my virtual system.
Quad 57 Wayne Picquet rebuild with Music Reference RM10 AMP
Quad ESL-57 - Wayne Picquet Panels Partnered with the amp that was designed for them - Music Reference RM10 by Roger Modjeski.
With certain music magic for me.
8/20/2012 These Quad 57 speakers were designed and put out before I was born. The parts inside which I have replaced like the EHT modules were stamped 1971. Fourteen years after they originally came out. The panels themselves are only a few years old. They were rebuilt by Wayne Piquet in Florida. The normal music presentation for stock Quad 57s is as if listening to music from the first row of a balcony. If using stock feet a 2 or 4 x 4 piece of wood or brick under the rear leg angling the speaker downwards toward you actually raises this image. This may be a more realistic presentation in your room.
Check out my review. http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/frr.pl?rspkr&1309018315&&&/Quad-57-
801 Active Monitors - Currently Stored
Currently Stored - "Winnie the Pooh" of speakers. Relationship Destroyer. Owned since 1994. Serious Sound Pressure Speaker can re-create an event in your room when positioned and driven properly. Mothers milk bass. During my time with them have used Solid State and Tube amps (Push Pull and OTL's). In comparison to the DM70 Electrostatic, If the 801 and DM70 were cowboys. The 801s are wearing black hats and the DM70 white ones.
801 Matrix S2 and S3 - Designed by John Bowers to be Active Monitors with use of the BAF and become a sixth-order Butterworth alignment. Without the high pass filter they are a vented fourth-order design, specifically in a Bessel alignment. "Fourth-order" is an engineering term that refers to all vented and passive-radiator speakers; sealed boxes are "second order."
From Stereophile (re: S2) "Higher in frequency, the response trend (averaged across a 30 degrees lateral window on the tweeter axis) is basically flat, but with a slight excess of energy in the presence region and a corresponding lack of energy in the top octave. All things being equal, this will make the speaker both a little too revealing of recorded detail and somewhat fussy when it comes to the quality of source and amplification components, just as LL noted in his auditioning comments."
Some of the changes. S3 used a different crossover than s2 - less component count. Better isolated mid and hf boards. Bass inductors with an iron dust core . Rotating midrange tweeter head assembly was permanently connected. (from 3 to 4 pin delivering separate ground signals to midrange and tweeter) Magnetic fluid cooling of the tweeter (like the 800 matrix) - the reason the apoc protection eliminated (circuits needed for this were also removed)
In nearfield very revealing of room setup, system components - SS and Tube, cabling, TT drive systems, poorly recorded music. They reveal all the flaws of the recording.
Depending on your audio hobby objectives this can be a good thing or a bad thing...
See picture of the Bass Alignment Filter.
B&W Electrostatic DM70 John Bowers / JansZen Hybrid
B&W DM70 Electrostatic Continental Hybrid Speaker Clockwork Orange Movie The late John Bowers (RIP) favorite speakers. JansZen ESL - 500hz and up. B&W Woofer - 500hz and down. Require a large room - elevated to ear level and a good distance from the front wall. Very refined midrange - muscular bass. Non-directional with a large sweetspot.
n]Designed in 1970. No cost or time constraints during the development. From what I can make out they were discontinued due to costs involved. Version One - Power handling 25 watts at all frequencies. Version Two - The later DM70 Improved, which looked identical, is suitable for amplifiers of 25-100w, but seems otherwise identical.
500hz crossover - ESL panel can not be overdriven and is nondirectional.
ESL Panel was provided by JansZen. Sensitivity is 17 watts into nominal impedance required to produce a sound level of 95 dB. at one metre at 400 Hz Double fuse protection C and CA versions.
Modded Acoustat Model 3 - Used In Shared Space Upstairs
Finally hooked up the Model 3's to the OTL's in a temporary fashion.
These are in our living area shared space Custom modded Model 3;s. They have rebuilt interfaces. Unique granite bases with integrated spikes that weigh 80 lbs. Burl Oak Veneer facing and the inside is filled with small sand bags.
Technics SP10 MKII with 2nd ET2 High Pressure Manifold
March 11, 2013 Update
Next version ? will replace the current black base plinth with a more aesthetic one.
Pet Project - Has taught me a lot about resonances and vibrations. SP10MKII Version Five Solid Stainless Steel Legs have threads at both ends and are bolted into the sp10 top plate as well as the solid plinth/platform. The armpod is bolted into the plinth. The plinth is then isolated by the AT-616 Pneumatic footers. 19 lb Solid Brass Pod 1 inch Diameter Solid Stainless Steel.
Previously I had the SP10 MKII in a heavy 7 layer plinth. Birch ply + one mdf layer. This SP10MKII came from a private studio.
This is the second ET2 I own and it is a high pressure manifold
Jean Nantais Custom turntable. Includes: 100 Pounds - Veneered - Two Tonearm Plinth Lenco L75 motor and top plate rebuilt to his standards. Reference model spindle, bearing thrust plate. Bonded Metacrylate mat Bearpaw footers. IEC outlet.
************ SOME NOTABLE MEMORIES **************************
For me some notable equipment. Currently stored or sold-indicated as such.
McAlister OTL 195
OTL195 There is a review contained in my system thread. In comparisons to good Solid State Class A and Push Pull amps they were like driving a 911 but you are limited to 1st gear when pushed. Very fast and punchy. But lack the bass that push pull deliver on. Get the bass right and everything else comes into place. These amps are designed around the needs of Acoustats. My Acoustats are in the shared room upstairs. I no longer own the OTL's.
Fidelity Research FR64s
Gimbal Pivot Arm. I found excellent build quality and a nicely implemented antiskate system. I also found a low frequency resonance that accentuated the bass. A warmer sounding tonearm. It was in my second room with the second ET2 not the ET 2.5. Whenever I started a session with the FR64s it was always nice. But curiosity would always prevail and I would switch over to the ET2. It would always remain there. This happened more times than I can remember. I am not a tonearm collector so it was sold to raise funds for another project. I am in agreement with what Cartridge designer Johnathan Carr had to say about it. http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1243274438&openusid&zzJcarr&4&5#Jcarr
Modded VPI's
Thread driven TNT and a JMW 12 using rollerblock jrs. SOLD
Acoustat Spectra 33
Acoustat Spectra 33
Eminent Technology LFT 8a
Set up in midfield - soundstage at both sides of the room. So the speaker shown is the left or the right one depending on side of room you are on. Excellent Magnetic Planar Hybrid Woofer Speaker. Very natural sounding but difficult to drive.
****************AUDIOPHILE FUN + ET 2 TONEARM MODS ************** ****
From here down are some inserts from past audiophile fun.
Also contained here is important information on the ET2, 2.5 tonearms as well as some of the mods I have done to them. If any questions on any of them let me know. No Holds Barred tonearm. User needs to be mechanically inclined and be willing to read ET2 manual instructions for proper setup of this tonearm. If bought on the used market a friend that is familiar with the tonearm for proper inspection of condition is important.
Goldilocks and the Three Turntables . See Sept 20, 2019 post comment below on my virtual system for findings / details.
Belt Drive (converted to thread) VPI TNT Idler - Jean Nantais Custom 100 Lb Direct Drive - SP10MKII When compared in the same room(nearfield), with same gear, tonearm and cartridge, same time, differences are revealed. Out into rooms on their own, this is not as noticeable as our ears deal with different room acoustics. ymmv
OTL VERSUS PUSH PULL Tube Amps
In room comparison.
Thread Drive Comparisons
2010 testing out different threads. Fabricland became a favorite place of mine.
ET 2 Tonearm Proper Bass Management - ATB
According to Bruce
My ears agree
ET 2.0 Manifold Before and After Cleaning
Pictures courtesty of a friend.
ET2 VTA Block Destroyed
Thigpen Genius showing VTA Block rack of teeth and worm gear. This one was abused. If you are buying a used one ensure the rack of teeth seen in the pic are uniform with no wear and baldspots. This is an indicator that the VTA block was misused and rigidly tightened stripping the teeth. The bolt was tightened to a point that shattered the CF.
ET 2.0 2.5 Tonearm VTA Block Torquing Procedure
VTA Block - Ensure each of the four bolts is torqued equally or the patented VTA system will be off. This procedures takes just minutes and should be done off table or you will throw your alignment off. Once bolts are torqued the manifold housing can be mounted to the pillar post and the rest of the setup completed.
ET 2.0, 2.5 Tonearm Magnesium versus Aluminum Armtubes
Mag - MC Cartridges Aluminum - MM Catridges The middle ground is the Carbon Fibre arm tube. MM and MC.
ET 2.0, 2.5 Custom Aluminum Joint - aka GOOSENECK
Black one is the stock one. Sourced from Richard Krebs
ET Tonearm Counterweight Bolt Mod
Get a longer counterweight bolt especially if you like to use heavier cartridges. The stock ET2 bolt is on the right. The longer bolt weighs a bit more, holds more lead weights and allows you to use less lead further out on the I Beam. This provides for the highest vertical mass which is really important with the ET2 as it has medium to high horizontal mass. a 4 - 1 horizontal to vertical ratio. In my system higher vertical mass means cleaner, less resonant, overall better bass. The brass rings are meant for balancing only. I prefer to use Blue Tack for this purpose.
Et2 Leaf Spring Mods Single, Double, Triple
General Cartridge Guideline
Single Leaf Spring - High compliance
Double - Medium Compliance
Triple - Low compliance
ET2 Pedestal Custom 3
Solid Brass Arm Pod
Koaltar Tweak
my pal 6 months, 79 lbs.
Kitty Tweak Bengal
a real sweetheart
RCA Victor Dog
I introduce Lucky. He is a mixed breed Jack Russell/Chihuahua mix breed. He will be acting as the Victor RCA dog,
The original Victor RCA dog.
He was named Nipper and was born in 1884 in Bristol, England, and died in September 1895. He was a mixed-breed dog and probably part Jack Russell Terrier, although some sources suggest that he was a Smooth Fox Terrier, or "part Bull Terrier". He was named Nipper because he would bite the backs of visitors' legs.
When I bought my house 3 years ago, I hadn't caught the audio bug yet, so did not take it into account.
We get over bugs? Me thinks this is something more serious. I am 51 now and have been consciously aware of this condition since I was ...well at least 14 since this is when I started working part time and remember making audio purchases - music with my money at Sam the Record Man in Toronto.
But your point is very important, imo - you know your an audiophile/music lover when you are shopping for houses with your spouse and "the space", its dimensions and how well it is physically isolated from the rest of the house, becomes as important to you, as her walk in closet and nice kitchen.
What a stupidly cold and snowy winter. Music wise my girlfriends have been helping to keep me warm. Sarah McLachlan, Natalie Merchant, Kate Bush, Patricia Barber, Chantal Kreviazuk, Amanda Wilkinson along with some Classical and Jazz lately. Cheers
I would love nothing more than a dedicated audio room. When I bought my house 3 years ago, I hadn't caught the audio bug yet, so did not take it into account.
I haven't had a chance to hear the 57's yet. The guy's business moved and he's not exactly easy to get a hold of.
Banquo363 - and it tends to get louder as the evening wears on.
Banquo - Sounds like you might headed toward a dedicated room ? You would probably love to have a full empty basement to do as you please? But the reason for that full basement - you would not relish. Happy New Year to you too. Did you get a chance to hear that great amp of yours with the 57's yet ?
Dover - hah hah your post reminded me of something I remember from ages ago in grade 8 or around there. over hearing two friends in school talking to one another.
Friend One: Hey - guess what man ... Led Zeppelin is coming to Maple Leaf Gardens on Oct 16.
Friend Two: Is he ?
Dover - I am surprised you didn't bring up the fact that the link was a promotional lip sync session? anyway she's totally new to me. fwiw - whatever musicians/singers want to call themselves. the way I see it LORDE can't do it without the keyboard and drummer guy. well actually she could - unplugged I guess but she doesnt on the cd. she is a vocalist only.
Cool stuff. Maybe I'm an endorphin junkie because, to my wife's dismay, I listen to music every chance I get. And it tends to get louder as the evening wears on.
You would never know from the youtube source (or on my Quad 57's) that this song was engineered with really serious bass. Lots of bass is common with the younger generation (my teenagers). Its also helping me to dial in the bass with the 800's. A came across this tune as it played on my little exercise radio while I was running; Later I was in the mall on boxing day and inquired about it. I enjoy listening to young people singing especially when running, as their music gives me energy. The music lyrics are equally important as it lets me know what my own teenagers are listening to.
Endorphins are a natural hormone in your body that are released when you do certain activities. Listening to Music and Running activities both release endorphins. Endorphins naturally combat stress I am a big believer in this and its effects. I believe all my gear is just an excuse for me to have different ways of listening to my music in different presentations to produce more endorphins. :^) With running I have four different pairs of running shoes that I rotate. This is important to help prevent injury.
As far as this group Lorde. I listen to and enjoy all forms of music. This is interesting music but I usually need 10-15 listens before I am tempted to go the next level (spend the cash) and get the vinyl. Have had three listens on cd so far.
So much music - so little time. On the best inside music days (like the current cold winter ones) I can listen to maybe 10-12 albums per day. Stay healthy and protect your ears so you can keep listening.
Hi Sam Being from LA around all the artists there, you are in an unique environment with access to software. I'm envious. Interesting info. thanks.
I wanted to share something from last week that I found interesting. A previous work friend has a young son that is attending a course at Metalworks Studios
and trying to set up his first small studio in his basement.
As I am the only one he knows of into music he asked me if I knew anything about some microphones (condensor vs dynamic) his son wanted (thinking Christmas gift). I quickly passed his request to Roger :^)
imo - The key to a successful consulting career is timely access to SME's (Subject Matter Experts)
I found Roger's response very interesting. Music lovers/audiophiles never seem to discuss this end of the music - imo the microphone is like that stylus in the groove. Where it all starts. I thought you guys would find this interesting (as I did) - so I wanted to share it here.
"Hi Chris: Basically condenser mics should be considered mainly as studio recording mics. I don't know the 214; the more common AKG that we see is the 414 and much more expensive. However if this mic is to be used with vocals you should use a windsock (we call them spit-pads) in front of the capsule otherwise moisture from the mouth will eventually rust out the capsule. And replacement capsules are not cheap. (I represent Neumann-Sennheiser -amongst other studio gear, and I also deal with all studio condensers for repairs).
For on stage on-the-road use dynamics. They are much cheaper, will stand far more abuse than condensers and if stolen or lost they are not too expensive to replace. Also the PA quality is no where close to a proper recording set up so the difference in response will not be noticed.
If recording drums please use dynamics rather than large condensers because they tend to get in the way and unless you have an experienced drummer, these mics often get hit. However if condensers must be used on a kit then a pencil type like KM84 or C451 series are ideal. For kit drum only large diaphragm dynamics because the volume of air will destroy a condenser. The diaphragm is tightly stretched and I have seen expensive mics like Sanken's with the diaphragm split open !"
Thanks for posting your and Roger's thoughts regarding Studer DIN/Butterfly/0.75 mm heads and NAB/2-Track/2 mm heads. I cannot cite the source; however, IIRC a reason for the Schmetterling/Butterfly repro head was for compatibility with mono program material.
These samples are from CDs made from a DSD recording of the actual analogue master tapes. They are not currently downloadable. I have been told if they are made downloadable one day, it would be from the actual DSD recording as it is closest to the analog master.
Note: I am not affiliated with this site other than being a customer of tapes. Hope u guys (gals) enjoy this music as I do. Just sharing.
Some recent emails with my Studer tech were fascinating to me. I wanted to share some of it with you guys here as it relates to imaging and what we hear when we listen to music.
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"Finally we debated over using butterfly heads (0.75mm gap) versus the more standard 2mm stereo heads. We opted for butterfly as there is more recorded area used. This does have the slight drawback of more crosstalk between channels (they are closer together) but for classical recording this works out extremely well. There is far more `blending' between channels producing a wider and fatter result. Of course butterfly used for say a rock recording would not be advisable as instruments panned hard left and hard right would tend to be dragged more towards the centre which would result in some clutter and lack of definition."
Roger Ginsely - Studer Canada Rep and Tech
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The above is part of an email response to me in which I questioned Roger on why I was hearing what I was hearing on a particular tape. He is responsible for the Studer machines in the studio where these tapes are made. These are current tapes that are produced today.
Here is a picture of the Studer Butterfly versus Stereo heads that he makes reference to.
I think the above puts things into a higher perspective that is not discussed much, and is only one example of how important the source material is and what the sound engineers do with it. Analog or digital. We are always hearing from audiophiles on forums about imaging, soundstage, depth, etc...
fwiw - I am aware of these imaging artifacts in reproduced music, but I don't place too much importance on them. I try to place the speakers where the tonal balance of the music is best on full range source material. I guess this makes me more of a music lover rather than an audiophile. Cheers
Ah, yes -- now, I remember :-) I'll be travelling during the Winter Holiday and thought about contacting you; however, I will be too far away in Connecticut!
Yes the Matrix 800, but the general principle would be the same. I'm a very strong advocate for the virtues of SET amplifiers but that's predicated on a compatible speaker match. Your speaker would seem to mate better with an appropriately powered push pull tube amp rather than the SETs IMHO. Best of Luck, Charles,
I don't believe that the B&W 801 with its low ohm lmpedance would be a good idea with a SET amplifier. This speaker was likely designed with the intention to use with transistor power amplifiers.
My understanding is the reviewers room was on the small side too. Was curious. So if anyone would like to chime in pls do. I'd like to learn. Have not experienced SET's Will reach out to McAlister - maker of the Otl's as well. fwiw - my Classe, RM9 and OTL's have no issues at all driving them.
But hey - if I can drive these with four tubes - u have my attention :^)
side note observation. The Acoustat Spectra 33 ESL's required in between 11-12 o'clock on my Audible Illusions preamp dials in the second room to reach high spl levels when they were auditioned by the person that bought them. This was with the Classe. Using the spl meter and same everything else the 801's are able to reach these same levels at between 8 and 9 o'clock on the preamp dials.
Chris, I may be the last person to ask regarding SET's, but I'll give it a shot.
I'm thinking if the impedence drops to 3 Ohms, a typical SET may not do the 800's justice. Perhaps a push-pull 300B?
There are any number of members with more knowledge/experience regarding SET suitability with your new speakers than I. Perhaps Almarg or Atmosphere will take notice and chime in.
Thanks. it was very un-nerving bringing 6 cartons in like that with no control. Speakers are a lot of fun but also very educational for me. They are a picture into how music and audiophilia has evolved.
The mids and highs on the Quad 57's and DM70 just love a live room with no damping. The 57's were very common, affordable and placed in smaller rooms. The DM70's were very expensive (for their time) and usually bought by those with big houses and rooms. Put a DM70 in a small room and the bass will overtake everything. But they really do clean up nicely when raised a foot. Likewise put both the 57 and DM70 in my damped and controlled room and they both sound very muddy and the next thing you know -you will be adding external tweeters to both. imo - they are from an era when it was all about the music only. what is an audiophile ? what are room treatments ? The 801's come from a different era; were the mainstay in studios and used by professionals. Then B&W realized money could be made and released them onto consumers/audiophiles. They are relationship destroyers and require a controlled environment just like in a studio.
Of interest - the 801's are in my bigger - livelier room right now. Although their bass has a little more room to breathe now - their revealing tweeters can be un-pleasant at times. If they were to stay there work would be needed in that room. But this imo would go hurt the Quad 57/DM70 presentation. So what do you do ? multiple rooms !
No matter what gear, speakers, wire, you bring in - we (including ourselves) our slaves to our rooms.
I really am looking at the tip of the iceberg right now with these 800's. I plan on just listening to my music and dialing them in over the winter. Pick up one or two new tapes, some new vinyl ...and watch a few soap operas with my wife.
Dan - a question for you - with your recent SET experiences how do you think the 800's would do with some larger SET amps ? They are 93 db and do dip to 3 ohms. Not looking to buy but could always borrow some to try .........down the road.
seriously contemplated acquiring some 800's -- they would complement the Bevs and DALI :-)
The three musketeers ?
Sam - I made a tape of my daughter playing the piano and singing before she went to university on the Studer. I used to do many recordings of people singing when I was 12 or 13 with this big Hitachi am/fm cassette player that came with a wire microphone that you stored in a back compartment. Consider it my first stereo. I still have it (lol) - it was mono. This would have been around 1975 :^)
I've thought favorably of the 801's since the early/mid 80's and seriously contemplated acquiring some 800's -- they would complement the Bevs and DALI :-)
but a couple of questions I got from friends first. I thought they were important to discuss.
1) Did you consider any other brands; what were you looking for ?
2) Why vintage - are you not worried about condition of the drivers and parts, sonics ?
in a way what lead to this purchase is just as important to me because I am a hobbyist and I need to "BUY" first. I have made a lot of buying mistakes in the past. My criteria the last 7 years is very generic especially for remote purchases and it can be tailored. ------------------------------------------------------------
1) "Did you consider any other brands; what were you looking for ?
I considered other brands from the US, Canada, and Europe. Once I went through my list (below) the others started dropping off. fwiw - I have no interest at this point in time of assembling my own speakers as some friends have done. I feel there are already too many variables to deal with in this hobby on its own, the most important being the room. I will never have access to the tools and knowledge of the professional speaker makers that have been around a long time. My passion as a hobbyist is in placing their speakers in my rooms and enjoying them.
some of my speaker must haves were.
a)Needed to be true full range - 20hz -20khz. I play music that has material below 40hz. fwiw - I am surprised how many of todays new speakers listed under the full range category; when you look at their specs - are not able to reproduce the bottom octave well. So some fell off the list after this one.
b)When I run them I run them for long periods of time 8 -12 hours and can't tolerate breakdowns as this is my special time. So I need to have a speaker that has a good reputation and has been a proven consistent speaker over a long period of time.
c)Parts availability from the manufacturer for non-current archived products is a big plus.
d)Serviceability that can be done by a local speaker specialist - especially if manufacturer is no longer in business. (I am not shipping full range speakers for service)
e)Guarantee of cabinet, frame construction not peeling, falling apart or glue cracking after xx years. test of time proves this.
f)They need to have been designed so that they can work in a large room, a medium sized room and a long but narrow room. The other brands that made it this far - fell off my list because of having to meet all three of these requirements. The 800's were designed, and tested to work in a really large room and a long narrow room. The setup for both is clearly illustrated in the owners manual.
g)Good resale value (turnaround) if for some reason it didn't work out and I needed to sell them on the private market.
h) Last but not least - Its Paypal or no deal (or similar method for payment) one that establishes identify of the seller and buyer and protects both if issues arise. -----------------------------------------------------------------
2) "Why vintage are you not worried about condition of the drivers and parts, sonic quality"
See b, c, d, e, above also
My experience with the quality and durability of the 800 series matrix line of B&W played a big part. The drivers on my 801's matrix S3 still look like the day I brought them home. This includes the tension in the spiders and smooth travel up and down the voice coil. The 800's that I brought in were a remote purchase - after a few days of listening to ensure they survived the journey - I pulled the woofers on them.
In a couple of the pics you will see the 800 cabinet and the start of the Matrix Bracing hence the name. The driver parts looked real good to me but being a vintage speaker I brought the woofers to a specialist for inspection. He has repaired thousands of drivers including B&W. Some of his comments.
"These drivers are in really good shape. including spiders and voice coils. The rubber surrounds and robex cones look great"
"they just don't make them like this anymore. If ever you really wanted to rebuild/modify these - everything is easy to get at and accessible. Many woofers these days are disposable - you just replace the whole thing"
He also told me if I wanted to rebuild the bass drivers - due to the ease of access to all parts - and the fact all parts can be matched up with same compliant spiders and same voice coils the cost would be $150 each. That includes labor!
In contrast for example - my Quad 57's and the DM70's - are the total opposite of this. I listened to 4 different 57's before I bought my pair. The others were not 100% functional and original condition models. For this reason I would only buy these type of speakers as recently restored or rebuilt models; or an original pair real cheap to send for restore if I was interested in them. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
initial 800 impressions
I have a confession to make. My wife is the one that helped me to raise them into place. Well I did it and she kind of cradled them. There are moments like this when you know, if you are into this hobby that you are with the right person. I can't let her know this as after 25 years of marriage she would gain too much leverage on me. I hope she never sees this.
however
The look on her face once we raised them up and they were standing there - I wish I had taken a picture of her face. If I could paint a picture - utter disbelief - I could also read her mind - and it was saying - you have totally lost your mind; and I also sensed a look of a little fear on her face of the impending sounds to radiate throughout the house .......even though I repeatedly assured her again and again of their special design and intent. She wasn't having any of this talk at this point so....
I thanked her with an uncontrolled giddiness that only small children normally possess, and I promised to watch some chick flicks and soap operas with her. The weather is getting cold anyway.
Although the jury is still out on whether I have lost it; her fears of massive sounds coming from these speakers to shake the beloved foundation of our household proved unfounded. More on this in bit. I'd like to note that 6 females have seen these speakers now. They all have nodded approval of their design - with the grills on. This has never happened before with any other speaker.
From the front they are actually quite nice and really don't take up a lot of "in your face" visual space. The midrange cabinet is only 8 inches wide and the woofers one - near the ceiling the other close to the floor are not in your direct line of sight. So kudos to the designers on this - however and this is a big however.
When viewed from the side where their points are they look like friggin zombie monsters on steroids. There is no way of ignoring the massive and deep cabinets housing the woofers. Very similar to the 801's in this regard.
Sonic impressions -
Without sound - the 800's are big enough and displace enough air in the room to affect the general acoustics of my room ! The clap test confirms this.
The utter disbelief my wife had of them raising hell in our house, became a non-issue for her when she heard them. But it is ironic because it is at this point, that they took on utter disbelief to me. You see despite their size and all those drivers - they are very room friendly. I purposely placed them in my room of 19 years where the 801's had been, up to the day before. I in fact placed them on the tape lines the 801's had occupied. The sound that emanated from them was controlled and smooth from the first song. And it remained this way "everywhere" in the room. You could get up walk around, sit down, stand up and go to the very back of the room. Not a hint of boominess playing really bass heavy music.
I then proceeded to move them back into the room more. They are not mechanically grounded yet on their spikes. I have the heavy cast alloy bases resting on a sheet of cardboard with the shiny side down on the carpet. This allows one person to gradually move them around till I dial them in. I moved them back one whole foot - gaining precious space with similar sonic results. The 801's have seen every inch of space in this room - long wall - short wall. Even a few inches with their movement can cause sonic problems in this room.
So for now I have to say that B&W was correct in their design - testing and implementation of these 800's. I look forward to dialing them in more.
