Audio Hobby Thoughts, Philosophy & System Description
Current Room Anchors - Room 1 and 2 active
Room 1 - Matrix 800's anchors - for creating that ..........Maxell Tape Effect.
Room 2 - (Adjacent to Room 1) - Quad 57 + two Dynaudio BM12s subs - Midrange reference
Room 3 - Acoustat Model 3 - Modded - upstairs - For imaging larger than life (literally speaking) - see last picture. Unfortunately is next to my wifes TV room. So it gets limited use.
Stored - B&W Electrostatic DM70c Continental - Wife calls them the washing machines. John Bowers called them his favorite speaker. Very interesting and very rare. Could anchor a room but they need special placement and lots of room. ESL portion needs to be 100% functional and at ear level or they will sound soft.
Room 2 is mostly digital, guests, and used for trialing used unplayed records before they make the queue for room 1. Room 1 has been called by my family as Dads Hole. I prefer panic room as it helped to raise my kids and stay married...so far.
Psychology Part
Music is critical to ones health and well being. I went through a couple stretches in life due to events without it and the results were not good. The goal for me to get lost in the music and have it transport me to that special place. Now whether you get there by a typical 2 channel home stereo with speakers, headphones, or other means is not important. Getting there is the important part.
Audiophile not.....
Have always been the type that if I frequent a room enough, a system usually ends up in there. My wife finally put an end to this, and allows me to do what I want in the full basement of our house.....so..... In this described virtual system, I have had Room A since 1994. Adjacent Room B is in the process of being finished, but I have been using it for listening for a few years now adding in room treatments as needed.
History
Like many others, have been at this audio hobby since I was about 13 when I was consciously aware of the gear versus the actual music relationship. I am now 55 and currently with two adjacent music rooms setup with different gear. Both rooms can do full orchestra symphonies with large dynamic swings. Getting Room B with the Quad 57's to do this was a challenge; but I was able to get it to work with the right amps and powered subs. The Quads require a very different room acoustic setup over the Matrix 800's in Room A.
I am a pure amateur, audiophile, music lover, past trombone player, and have never been part of the Audio Business as a manufacturer, dealer, distributor, or have any special interest relationships with any of these people. I consider myself a full time music lover, and part time audiophile; although I have friends that could argue this point. I have tried to upload pics and information here, that give a flavor of some of my audio journeys, and associated bouts of Audiophilia Nervosa. :^)
"Audio Heaven, is for Music Lovers - Audiophiles are never happy.
With that, in the real, authentic, Heaven; there is room, even for Audiophiles"
8^0
Living in the country
Having moved away from the city core in the 90's, I have found that audiophiles away from the cities, are in general, scare to find and or keep to themselves. Many of my audio friends are now remote, due to the distance between us; so only virtual communications are possible most of the time.
The negative aspects of Isolation aside; one good aspect of living in the country is the clean power and lack of noise and vibrations caused by traffic, trucks, etc...Once experienced and its effect on your listening, you become very aware of the multitude of audiophile products available as band aids, to cover, veil, but never eliminate these artifacts in densely populated areas.
I was born in the 60's so I grew up with Classic Rock, Beatles, etc... But I love all music, new music and Opera hits home with me. I played trombone in Jr and High school so the Bass Clef has a bias with me. Listen more now to the ladies crooning at me, Classical and Jazz with occasional Classical Rock; I think a well recorded full Orchestra Symphony with huge Dynamic swings has the most magic for me.
***** MAIN ROOM aka Panic Room, Dad's Hole, ....*****
I have had Room A since 1994. It has 3 dedicated lines 20, 20 , 15. This room is personal use. Room B is more for entertaining and spending time with friends.
Room A is much better insulated and isolated from my wife. As much as I would like to move the Matrix 800's to the larger Room B space to try them, it would probably just get me that much more trouble.
Room A and B are both located on a concrete poured floor. A has a an underpad and flat carpet on top. Spikes from gear stands and speakers are able to penetrate to the concrete with no problem ensuring a solid mechanical connection. The speakers are located 6 feet from the front wall with the room being 24 ft in length. Putting in the 800's over the 801's meant that some of the room treatments were able to be removed due to the 800's double woofers high and low. This is also one of the reasons I call them very room friendly.
1/4 inch 2 track machine. The three pictures attached. Top Left - known as two turntables. my machine being worked on Middle pic - 807 Top Right Pic. A picture of Roger Ginsley with a 48 track machine he is about to split into two 24 tracks. My Studer 807 is calibrated by him. He is also the one that makes the interconnects I use with it.
JC Verdier La Platine Vintage Granito Original Design
2012
http://www.jcverdier.com/ADSL/platineVintage.html
Just a delight to use. With its presentation, sends the message home that it is all amount the music. Effortless, seamless, but experience is needed is setting up the thread. A real Goldilocks scenario of the thread being too loose, too tight or just right. Different thread tensions alternate how the motor and platter work together and change the speed. The objective is to get the correct speed with as little effect from the motor. ....
Original design. Granito Model My version uses a motor only equipped for thread Granito base and solid aluminum billet armpod. The later newer motors are equipped now for belts too - but no one runs them this way that I know of. This decision was made imo to generate more sales as it is easier to setup. But imo the belt grip would play havoc with the motor / magnets marriage which was designed for thread. I would think that belt stretch and its physical changes with temp and humidity changes would also cause problems, and interfere with the natural braking action of the magnets. This is my opinion as mine is thread only. There is a greater learning curve involved with thread.
This is the only turntable I am aware of whose platter design includes both acceleration (inertia) and braking (natural forces from same pole magnets) to deal with the records behavior - going from soft to heavily modulated grooves. The motor design, like a marriage with the platter. Think of the childhood merry go rounds that once up to speed - even a little girl could keep them going. To understand how the motor and platter are like a marriage, one need only turn the motor off and the platter spins for 30 seconds with the thread attached. However cut the thread while the platter is turning, and the platter stops much quicker as the two magnets demonstrate their braking capability. Impressive to me is just the plain simplicity of design using physics to get the job done with a piece of string and magnets. I found it important in setup to have the thread positioned in a way that is the least intrusive on the platter; so as to allow the platter to not only do its job as designed; but to also provide the needed jolts as required from the motor to maintain speed stability.
In my opinion - you will know when you have set it up properly because you are able to turn the motor off and on and also deflect the thread with your finger - as the records plays - and not affect the music delivery to your ears. I base this when compared directly to 15 IPS Master Tape dubs. In testing for accuracy I run both simultaneously with one lagging 10 seconds behind the other and switch between the two - compensating for gain as tape is a high level signal. When the thread is setup in this fashion there is minimal stress put on it. The current silk thread I am using has recently passed the one year mark. Overall Big Sound from a small piece of thread.
Some facts Magnetic bearing design. Brass colored rings are big shielded permanent magnets; same magnet poles repelling each other. The result is "levitation" the space you see between them. No thrust bearing involved. A central spindle bathed in a special oil keeps them aligned. For me personally I did not know what TT bearing noise sounded like until I heard music on a TT without a physical bearing. The plinth is made of Granito. Granito is not real granite but a non-resonant material that looks and feels like granite. A limited edition model.
"Granito is a material composed by little pieces of marble of very different origin agglomerated inside a mold with cement. Machined and polished. The resonance of the plinth with its suspension is about 5Hz and it is well absorbed by the air cavities."
Mr. JC Verdier Note: Newer Platines are provided with a setup bearing. The manual is very clear on the setup bearing. It is just that - a setup tool only. COUNTERFEIT PLATINES Unfortunately there are non-authentic tables out there worldwide from 20 different counterfeiting makers. These tables are out there with people using them. If anyone is unaware of this, see the Platine Information on the JC Verdier website for more info.
The only advice I can give is when buying a Verdier Platine you should be careful to ensure it is a real Platine, especially if buying privately. If you already have one and have doubts, check with an authorized dealer or J.C. Verdier company in France to ensure it is authentic.
Custom Eminent Technology Model 2.5 for MC Carts
This is a custom build ET 2.5 Tonearm from Bruce Thigpen - A 19 PSI design.I am using the new Long I Beam. Weights are reduced by half and therefore the vertical inertia is higher - a goal of the design. The Aluminum Gooseneck was sourced from NZ. It was through Richard Krebs also an ET2 owner. I am using Single Shot WBT wiring, Aluminum mount plate. Magnesium armtube. Double Leaf Spring and damping trough. If you are an ET2 owner you know what I am talking about :^).... Advantages of the ET2 airbearing linear tracker tonearm - no VTF changes with VTA adjustment, no offset setup, antiskating and immunity to acoustic feedback, as it rides on film of air.
One shot wire. Run at 19 PSI. Damping trough with 1 cc of Oil. Lead weights at the very end of the I Beam.
VTA on the fly while the record plays and it doesn't change any parameters (VTF) like all other tonearms do. This is due to a patented VTA on the fly system. Have you ever noticed how with same thickness records....some can sound brighter, some bloated and some just right? When they press the records the different plants can have different standards. Records are then cut with varying angles.. even same thickness ones.
See ET2 Bass Management Below
Tonearm Wiring Loom - One shot WBT NextGen
2011 One shot wiring loom for the ET 2.5. WBT 0102 CU connectors. The design of the ET2 (2.5) allows for this wiring to be changed out in about 10 minutes. Silver and copper can be experimented with.
The PUMP ET2
Life Support for the ET2's. Timeter 3000 Medical Industrial Pump. The most important part of the ET2 arms setup. Industrial commercial grade medical pump. Its actually a patient respirator.
These have an hours counter and come up for sale cheaply on ebay. If you have space in your basement somewhere they are turnkey once set up.
I have tried large aquarium pumps, smaller medical pumps, compressors.
This Timeter Medical 50 psi pump has been customized to allow me to regulate air pressure coming out and send 19 psi to the ET2 tonearms. Another regulator with gauge at the arm allows me to accurately adjust for the PSI coming into the arm. Located in another room -cannot be heard in sound room when running.
The smoothness of air delivery is excellent. No resonance. The pump dumps/expels moisture like a car's AC. Have never seen a drop in the moisture collector; other than one incident when the pump outlet clogged with minerals from the moisture. I now soak the pump outlet in CLR for 2 hours every two months.
ET2 In Room Air Regulator & Filter
2nd Regulator and Filter on wall near the ET arm. Confirms and controls the 19 psi and also filters out moisture in line. Have never seen any moisture in this filter. This device lets me change the pressure going to the arm by just turning the top mounted knob. This regulator is mobile. It can be placed in my lap while the music is playing and pressure adjusted to hear how it affects the music delivery.
Audio Research DAC8
From a DAC only function perspective identical to the ARC REF DAC except the output stage is tubed on the REF. Interesting read. :^)
Owned many many years. Modded power supply box. Variable Gain for dealing with hot, and compressed source material - Digital and Analog. On the fly cartridge impedance loading. Used in ARC's hotrod mode. Direct output and bypass switch engaged. Amperex Bugle Boys.
Matrix 800
Unique one time all assault effort from B&W at a time when 2 channel was the focus. Smooth, musical yet still detailed. Room Friendly if you can believe it. Imagine 4 subs two high and two low pointed at you for 2 channel music. Each driver 2 woofer, mids, tweeter have their own crossover easily accessible from the back.
They were a 2 1/2 year study from Bowers & Wilkins under John Bowers (RIP). I have looked for a long time for a pair. The only time they become available are through owners going to a smaller condo (retiring or divorce).
All B&W 800 models that followed the Matrix series are the same only in model designation - 800. They are not a replacement or upgrade. They are a different build, design, objectives, sound. Post Matrix 800's are a smaller speaker system (require a sub for full range); they do have better WAF (more easily placed into a shared room with the wife)
800 matrix can be played at low and high levels with the right amp. 93db 2.83 volts/1m, Mine are Quad wired. They can be run on four separate amps if one desires as each driver has its own crossover.
Top and bottom woofers each excite a different set of waves. These waves cancel each other out. Thats the theory. My listening supports this. Smooth tight bass. It is quite something to experience since their size make you think they will over take the room. Also IMO each woofer works only half as much with four versus two for the desired SPL. All of this results in a very flexible listening position. All drivers are physically isolated with separate crossovers and Van Den Hul silver wiring from the factory. I run them with both tubes and Solid State. Krell and the modded Music Reference RM9.
Krell Amplifier Story My research found me talking with Dan D'Agostino who used matrix 800's as his reference speakers when he designed this era of Krell amps. Specifically the FPB series like my FPB600. On a dedicated 20 amp circuit with upgraded 20 amp power cord using Furutech Gold IEC.
RM9 Push Pull Tube Amp. Used to power Acoustat, 801, 800 speakers. WBT 0700 Connectors. KT88 output tubes. Hardwired for 4 ohm tap. Total Overhaul done April 2015
MATRIX 800 INSTALL
Installation
800 Series Bass Alignment Filter / Equalizer.
The graph shows the 801 matrix frequency response with and without the filter.
All 800 series B&W matrix speakers are an active design and are intended to be used with an equalizer by the designer (John Bowers) to achieve the best frequency response.
This attached graph was sent to me by B&W Europe years ago
It is the frequency plot for the 801 matrix "without" using the supplied Bass Alignment Filter. (not sure if it is 801 s2 or s3)
B&W England are the ones that drew the two dotted lines on the graph.
The 801 matrix speakers were designed to be used with the BAF. The speakers with BAF devices were shipped to original owners. But these devices became lost as speakers changed hands. They pop up on their own on ebay.
The two interesting parts.
Part 1
Not only does adding the BAF filter as designed give you a smoother response and allow the speaker to hit 20 hz. The BAF makes the 801 matrix speaker much more efficient. The ohm ratings can be seen on the right 8 - 6 - 4 - 2 ohms. The 801 matrix s2 and s3 are a very easy 6 ohm steady load with the active equalization provided by the BAF. This opens up amp choices.
Part 2
Audiophile opinions on the BAF device are kind of split. Not sure if its an even 50% like it, 50% don't like it, but you have the two camps. Why the difference? The room; its acoustic properties, and how the 801 (aka relationship destroyer) deals with it. There is a reason B&W no longer make the 801. You need a dedicated room. Its makes no business sense.
801 matrix owners today (there are many out there and some reading here), that could NOT make the BAF work with the speaker; or who never used it, or even heard of the BAF before; are taxing their amps way more to make bass with the 801.
************ SECOND ROOM ***********************
A backwards seven with the main section 20 -23. This room is the "top of the Seven". It is separated from the bottom portion of the Number 7 shape (12 x 24) by a heavy curtain. It is also adjacent to my other room of which the door is left open. The back of the room has the stairs that go upstairs. One of the pictures has me standing on the stairs. All this makes for a much bigger room as far as sound volume and space is concerned. An in progress dedicated listening space that accommodates different speaker types.
03/31/2011 Dynamic, ESL, Planar IMO - We listen to our rooms. The speakers in the rooms are like boats. They both represent freedom to me. A 12 foot aluminum boat is perfect for a small lake and your favourite person. But out on the ocean or a big body of water The water/boat analogy in this case is like your room and speakers. Water waves versus sound waves. There is no perfect boat and no perfect speaker. This is because all our rooms are different and the room is the big rock in this audiophile game. Speakers represent the last piece in the audio chain. Their sound represents everything in your audio chain especially the room, before it reaches your ears. Every piece will have an effect on what is heard. This IMO is why it is so important to have a good source. The last few years my speakers have remained intact and I have concentrated on improving the source components. Each time I improved the source my main speakers improved as well. This tells me they are not a bottleneck and I have not yet reached their limits.
Dynaudio Acoustics BM12s - Two of these in my Quad Room B .
Two of these in Room B - 18hz - 60 hz.
4th order Linkwitz- Riley crossovers have a really steep slope past 60 hz.
On paper this made them look like a really good match for the Quad 57's; but how does such a small box make 18 hz. They have class a/b amps are 4 ohms.
I brought them home and demoed them. Very Punchy, Clean and they go really low. A great match with the raised Wayne Picquet Quad 57's. They are placed under the speakers - see pic in my virtual system.
Quad 57 Wayne Picquet rebuild with Music Reference RM10 AMP
Quad ESL-57 - Wayne Picquet Panels Partnered with the amp that was designed for them - Music Reference RM10 by Roger Modjeski.
With certain music magic for me.
8/20/2012 These Quad 57 speakers were designed and put out before I was born. The parts inside which I have replaced like the EHT modules were stamped 1971. Fourteen years after they originally came out. The panels themselves are only a few years old. They were rebuilt by Wayne Piquet in Florida. The normal music presentation for stock Quad 57s is as if listening to music from the first row of a balcony. If using stock feet a 2 or 4 x 4 piece of wood or brick under the rear leg angling the speaker downwards toward you actually raises this image. This may be a more realistic presentation in your room.
Check out my review. http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/frr.pl?rspkr&1309018315&&&/Quad-57-
801 Active Monitors - Currently Stored
Currently Stored - "Winnie the Pooh" of speakers. Relationship Destroyer. Owned since 1994. Serious Sound Pressure Speaker can re-create an event in your room when positioned and driven properly. Mothers milk bass. During my time with them have used Solid State and Tube amps (Push Pull and OTL's). In comparison to the DM70 Electrostatic, If the 801 and DM70 were cowboys. The 801s are wearing black hats and the DM70 white ones.
801 Matrix S2 and S3 - Designed by John Bowers to be Active Monitors with use of the BAF and become a sixth-order Butterworth alignment. Without the high pass filter they are a vented fourth-order design, specifically in a Bessel alignment. "Fourth-order" is an engineering term that refers to all vented and passive-radiator speakers; sealed boxes are "second order."
From Stereophile (re: S2) "Higher in frequency, the response trend (averaged across a 30 degrees lateral window on the tweeter axis) is basically flat, but with a slight excess of energy in the presence region and a corresponding lack of energy in the top octave. All things being equal, this will make the speaker both a little too revealing of recorded detail and somewhat fussy when it comes to the quality of source and amplification components, just as LL noted in his auditioning comments."
Some of the changes. S3 used a different crossover than s2 - less component count. Better isolated mid and hf boards. Bass inductors with an iron dust core . Rotating midrange tweeter head assembly was permanently connected. (from 3 to 4 pin delivering separate ground signals to midrange and tweeter) Magnetic fluid cooling of the tweeter (like the 800 matrix) - the reason the apoc protection eliminated (circuits needed for this were also removed)
In nearfield very revealing of room setup, system components - SS and Tube, cabling, TT drive systems, poorly recorded music. They reveal all the flaws of the recording.
Depending on your audio hobby objectives this can be a good thing or a bad thing...
See picture of the Bass Alignment Filter.
B&W Electrostatic DM70 John Bowers / JansZen Hybrid
B&W DM70 Electrostatic Continental Hybrid Speaker Clockwork Orange Movie The late John Bowers (RIP) favorite speakers. JansZen ESL - 500hz and up. B&W Woofer - 500hz and down. Require a large room - elevated to ear level and a good distance from the front wall. Very refined midrange - muscular bass. Non-directional with a large sweetspot.
n]Designed in 1970. No cost or time constraints during the development. From what I can make out they were discontinued due to costs involved. Version One - Power handling 25 watts at all frequencies. Version Two - The later DM70 Improved, which looked identical, is suitable for amplifiers of 25-100w, but seems otherwise identical.
500hz crossover - ESL panel can not be overdriven and is nondirectional.
ESL Panel was provided by JansZen. Sensitivity is 17 watts into nominal impedance required to produce a sound level of 95 dB. at one metre at 400 Hz Double fuse protection C and CA versions.
Modded Acoustat Model 3 - Used In Shared Space Upstairs
Finally hooked up the Model 3's to the OTL's in a temporary fashion.
These are in our living area shared space Custom modded Model 3;s. They have rebuilt interfaces. Unique granite bases with integrated spikes that weigh 80 lbs. Burl Oak Veneer facing and the inside is filled with small sand bags.
Technics SP10 MKII with 2nd ET2 High Pressure Manifold
March 11, 2013 Update
Next version ? will replace the current black base plinth with a more aesthetic one.
Pet Project - Has taught me a lot about resonances and vibrations. SP10MKII Version Five Solid Stainless Steel Legs have threads at both ends and are bolted into the sp10 top plate as well as the solid plinth/platform. The armpod is bolted into the plinth. The plinth is then isolated by the AT-616 Pneumatic footers. 19 lb Solid Brass Pod 1 inch Diameter Solid Stainless Steel.
Previously I had the SP10 MKII in a heavy 7 layer plinth. Birch ply + one mdf layer. This SP10MKII came from a private studio.
This is the second ET2 I own and it is a high pressure manifold
Jean Nantais Custom turntable. Includes: 100 Pounds - Veneered - Two Tonearm Plinth Lenco L75 motor and top plate rebuilt to his standards. Reference model spindle, bearing thrust plate. Bonded Metacrylate mat Bearpaw footers. IEC outlet.
************ SOME NOTABLE MEMORIES **************************
For me some notable equipment. Currently stored or sold-indicated as such.
McAlister OTL 195
OTL195 There is a review contained in my system thread. In comparisons to good Solid State Class A and Push Pull amps they were like driving a 911 but you are limited to 1st gear when pushed. Very fast and punchy. But lack the bass that push pull deliver on. Get the bass right and everything else comes into place. These amps are designed around the needs of Acoustats. My Acoustats are in the shared room upstairs. I no longer own the OTL's.
Fidelity Research FR64s
Gimbal Pivot Arm. I found excellent build quality and a nicely implemented antiskate system. I also found a low frequency resonance that accentuated the bass. A warmer sounding tonearm. It was in my second room with the second ET2 not the ET 2.5. Whenever I started a session with the FR64s it was always nice. But curiosity would always prevail and I would switch over to the ET2. It would always remain there. This happened more times than I can remember. I am not a tonearm collector so it was sold to raise funds for another project. I am in agreement with what Cartridge designer Johnathan Carr had to say about it. http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1243274438&openusid&zzJcarr&4&5#Jcarr
Modded VPI's
Thread driven TNT and a JMW 12 using rollerblock jrs. SOLD
Acoustat Spectra 33
Acoustat Spectra 33
Eminent Technology LFT 8a
Set up in midfield - soundstage at both sides of the room. So the speaker shown is the left or the right one depending on side of room you are on. Excellent Magnetic Planar Hybrid Woofer Speaker. Very natural sounding but difficult to drive.
****************AUDIOPHILE FUN + ET 2 TONEARM MODS ************** ****
From here down are some inserts from past audiophile fun.
Also contained here is important information on the ET2, 2.5 tonearms as well as some of the mods I have done to them. If any questions on any of them let me know. No Holds Barred tonearm. User needs to be mechanically inclined and be willing to read ET2 manual instructions for proper setup of this tonearm. If bought on the used market a friend that is familiar with the tonearm for proper inspection of condition is important.
Goldilocks and the Three Turntables . See Sept 20, 2019 post comment below on my virtual system for findings / details.
Belt Drive (converted to thread) VPI TNT Idler - Jean Nantais Custom 100 Lb Direct Drive - SP10MKII When compared in the same room(nearfield), with same gear, tonearm and cartridge, same time, differences are revealed. Out into rooms on their own, this is not as noticeable as our ears deal with different room acoustics. ymmv
OTL VERSUS PUSH PULL Tube Amps
In room comparison.
Thread Drive Comparisons
2010 testing out different threads. Fabricland became a favorite place of mine.
ET 2 Tonearm Proper Bass Management - ATB
According to Bruce
My ears agree
ET 2.0 Manifold Before and After Cleaning
Pictures courtesty of a friend.
ET2 VTA Block Destroyed
Thigpen Genius showing VTA Block rack of teeth and worm gear. This one was abused. If you are buying a used one ensure the rack of teeth seen in the pic are uniform with no wear and baldspots. This is an indicator that the VTA block was misused and rigidly tightened stripping the teeth. The bolt was tightened to a point that shattered the CF.
ET 2.0 2.5 Tonearm VTA Block Torquing Procedure
VTA Block - Ensure each of the four bolts is torqued equally or the patented VTA system will be off. This procedures takes just minutes and should be done off table or you will throw your alignment off. Once bolts are torqued the manifold housing can be mounted to the pillar post and the rest of the setup completed.
ET 2.0, 2.5 Tonearm Magnesium versus Aluminum Armtubes
Mag - MC Cartridges Aluminum - MM Catridges The middle ground is the Carbon Fibre arm tube. MM and MC.
ET 2.0, 2.5 Custom Aluminum Joint - aka GOOSENECK
Black one is the stock one. Sourced from Richard Krebs
ET Tonearm Counterweight Bolt Mod
Get a longer counterweight bolt especially if you like to use heavier cartridges. The stock ET2 bolt is on the right. The longer bolt weighs a bit more, holds more lead weights and allows you to use less lead further out on the I Beam. This provides for the highest vertical mass which is really important with the ET2 as it has medium to high horizontal mass. a 4 - 1 horizontal to vertical ratio. In my system higher vertical mass means cleaner, less resonant, overall better bass. The brass rings are meant for balancing only. I prefer to use Blue Tack for this purpose.
Et2 Leaf Spring Mods Single, Double, Triple
General Cartridge Guideline
Single Leaf Spring - High compliance
Double - Medium Compliance
Triple - Low compliance
ET2 Pedestal Custom 3
Solid Brass Arm Pod
Koaltar Tweak
my pal 6 months, 79 lbs.
Kitty Tweak Bengal
a real sweetheart
RCA Victor Dog
I introduce Lucky. He is a mixed breed Jack Russell/Chihuahua mix breed. He will be acting as the Victor RCA dog,
The original Victor RCA dog.
He was named Nipper and was born in 1884 in Bristol, England, and died in September 1895. He was a mixed-breed dog and probably part Jack Russell Terrier, although some sources suggest that he was a Smooth Fox Terrier, or "part Bull Terrier". He was named Nipper because he would bite the backs of visitors' legs.
here is a picture of the speakers coming to me. http://cgim.audiogon.com/i/vs/i/f/1380931512.jpg as mentioned I will be selling 3 maybe 4 speakers to pay for these. depending on the market. the pic shows 4 of 6 boxes that they are shipped in.
Part of this journey The three speakers will include a new for me very special speaker hopefully coming in soon. Hope to have shootouts completed and money in pocket by Jan-Feb - God willing.
In my previous email I mentioned the ET LFT8's were sold.
Here is another update.
Pulled the pair of B&W 805 matrix and 805 HTM center channel out of storage.
I am no longer holding my breath that my kids will use them one day. That day will never come.
Put for sale a couple days ago and they sold this afternoon.
For those following I very happy to say that the transaction for the "new for me speaker has occurred". As they are are remote they need to be sent to me.
I am happy to say I am half-way there in raising funds for them.
Hi Ct0517 I thought you were rationalising your speakers hence the suggestion to try a high quality samll monitor such the the Proac Tablette. I think you would find this illuminating in gaining an insight into your other speakers. I have heard a number of Acoustats, they were quite popular here in the 80's. I agree with your comments on power and space in the room. I've heard 1+1's, 2+2's & 2's and 3's and Spectras on a variety of amps including - Perreaux 2150B's, monoed 2150B's, 3150B's, 5150B's, Plinus 250w mono's, Sumo Class A, EAR 509's, EAR 519's, Audio Research D115, Quicksilver 8417's, Counterpoint SA12 & 20, Rowland Model 1's monoed. We had a few Acoustats traded in when I had the audio business as well. Most of them were run nude ( no covers ), in space, and with various upgrades. The ones I liked the most were the Acoustat 3's in standard format, with OFC panels, Medallion kit and a few mods to the power supply to juice it up. I Thought this configuration sounded more natural than the 1+1 & 2+2 configurations.
Other electrostatics owned by friends & colleagues I have heard were the Stax F81's driven by New York Audio Labs OTL1's & Plinius 250w monos, Soundlabs A1's driven by Atmasphere's, Jadis & others, Quad ESL 57's, 63's. I also imported the Martin Logan's into NZ. I do like the Quad ESL 57's. I traded in a pair of stacked 57's but did not like these, they sound very closed in. The best 57's I have were on stands lifting them of the floor, with the panels angled more vertically than standard, the plastic dustpanels removed, as well as the metal grills, and driven by Quicksilver 8417's. In this format the Quicksilvers did not overdrive the panels - I had no arcing issues. I can also recommend highly the addition of the Sequerra Ribbon if you can find some. I heard these on single quads driven by the original Electrocompaniet 25 Class A power amp & the Electroresearch Class A power amp.
So of the speakers you currently own my preference would be the ESL57's for small to medium rooms and the B&W 801's with crossover mods and decent power for larger rooms. Fyi in one of my many experiences I took my Tablettes over to someones house to audition, they had Acosutat 2+2's driven by Plinius mono's in a room approx 25'x15'. Front end was Sota, ET2, with Talisman/Carnegie Model 1/various Koetsu's. The owners brother ( non audiophile ) who was looking to buy some speakers described the Acoustats as sounding like wet blankets after only a few minutes in comparison and I would confidantly predict that if you could find some you would understand. This all needs to be put into context that I value speed, transparency, timing and musically, and I would trade a little bottom end extension to optimise these facets..for me the most transparent electrostatics I have owned were the original Martin Logan CLS's with Australian interfaces ( these were slightly different to the US interfaces ).
10-02-13: Dover Having heard many Acoustats over the years, including the 3's, 2+2's, both with the medallion updates and OFC panels, the Spectra's and some heavily modified ones, I would suggest you have a listen to some Proac Ref 8 Signatures. These monitors are more transparent, quicker and more faithful to the music than any of the Acoustats I have auditioned over the last 3 decades. With my original Proac Tablettes and the Sota Star (vacuum) with ET2 and Denon 103 I could clearly hear more information through the whole musical spectrum. Although down in absolute level the bass was more articulate, informative and most importantly more accurate in timing. The Tablettes do not have the one note bass the Acoustats produce. The Acoustats tend to make everything sound the same - they are highly coloured - even with subtstantial mods, they still remain coloured.
Hmmmm....what can a person say when someone puts in a post like that on your own personal Audiogon system thread ? Well...lets see....my thread here is about learning and sharing info that helps us in this hobby; so my response is for those that may consider Acoustat in the future or are current owners. If it also ends up helping Dover to sleep better at night all the better since his Acoustat problems still seem to haunt him enough to post here on my personal page.
Firstly Acoustat was and still is a coveted brand of speaker in Canada and US with music lovers; This is evidenced by the number of online forums that exist, and actual service centers by techies like Roy Esposito; who knows more about them than anyone else; plus other techies who continue to do upgrades and maintenance on them for music lovers. imo - Acoustats require different thinking in setup over dynamic cone speakers and other ESL's (i.e. Quad ESL) to make them sound as good as they really can sound. Based on my listening when things are not set up properly they can indeed produce some of the symptoms you describe Dover; but in my experience all can be easily remedied and are part of the learning process for setup of an Acoustat. They are NOT a plug and play speaker.
What follows is meant for those out there who have ever thought of or are thinking of owning an Acoustat one day. Let me address three areas to look for. If other knowledgeable Acoustat owners reading want to chime in with their experiences - please feel free. I am looking to learn also. I ask you to just keep in mind one important thing.
I had this boss when I was younger that I ending up respecting very much and learning much from. He taught me that it is very unproductive and a waste of everyone's time to bring problems to the table; without bringing some kind of solution/s to the table to fix the problems.
Acoustats - 3 guidelines based on my experience.
1) Are they set up in the room to breath. 2) Is the panel being driven properly 3) Is the panel plastic sheet material loose?
1) The panel area requires space around them for both the front and back wave to do their work as they are dipole. Most pics of Acoustats I see show them up against against the wall or in a corner. If people are happy with this sound - cool. But if not they should be positioned "at least" a few feet away from front walls. Yes, my Acoustat manual shows that they can be placed this way - against the wall - in the corner - imo - this is to sell more speakers.
2) Is the Panel being driven properly. Unlike other ESL's, it is difficult to over drive Acoustats, but it is very easy to not drive them properly. Here is something that folks (myself included till about five years ago) do not realize about Acoustat. I did not realize it until it was explained to me by a very knowledgeable person. This person has been rebuilding and repairing all ESL's for many many years as well as building amps, preamps designed around ESL requirements. It has actually been mentioned here on my thread already. For those that have read my system thread so far - sorry for the repeat - but its worth repeating.
"Acoustat panels need to energize at 40 - 80 ohms to produce good bass" "So you need an amp SS or Tube that is capable at 40 - 80 ohms"
The difficulty with this statement - imo- as a music lover is that you cannot "see" whether your amp is doing 40-80 ohms without some kind of measurements. So you need to use your ears.
We always see amp power ratings at a nominal 8 ohms - and people assume if they double down its all good. (i.e. a 150 wpc amp at 8 hms, goes to 300 at 4 ohms). But what we never hear or read about is how this or that particular amp does at 40 - 80 ohms - GOING THE OTHER WAY. If someone owns Acoustat or are comtemplating them or a speaker with similar power reqt's I'd look into your amps specs or contact the manufacturer of the amp for info. What your amp is able to do power wise at 40 - 80 ohms with Acoustat is important.
3) if 1 or 2 don't fix your problems, it could be Loose Panel Material - Its bad practice for any ESL owner to just unplug them when done listening and just replug them in when using them. Acoustats sound better when left on for a day or more especially those that are not used frequently. If you don't like the idea of leaving them on - don't buy them. I feel this strongly about this point. You see each time this is done - uplugging and plugging them in - the electricity charging and dis-charging from the panel material causes the plastic material in the sheet to stretch and contract. Over time the material doesnt contract back as well. This causes loose material and is the biggest cause imo for the loose bass sometime referenced in reviews and or the one note bass that Dover seems to have an issue with. When bass is off everything is affected. Thankfully with Acoustat it is a very easy fix.
With panel OFF - and discharged - leave off for a day to be sure. Take a small hair dryer and on the lowest heat (just warm air) run the dryer up and down the panel membranes slowly never stopping. I have used this procedure twice and it works. The warm heat shrinks the membrane so it contracts back down. Your bass should be improved - defined and tight once more.
NOTE - Although this is an easy procedure I take no responsibility for anyone doing damage to their membrane with a hair dryer.
My Acoustats are not my reference speaker but I find when set up properly they are very listenable for hours upon hours and represent ridiculous values on the used market. The ridiculous value however is also how people get into trouble with them. You see someone without knowledge or even a desire to learn, gets them for a crazy price on Ebay or Kijiji.
Now it a crazy price to begin with and I dont see this changing - BECAUSE IT IS VERY DIFFICULT TO CONVINCE A SPOUSE TO BUY AND BRING HOME A SPEAKER THAT LOOKS LIKE A DOOR.
Anyway - they get them home and stick them up against wall, on either side of their big screen TV and hook them up to their HT receiver bought at Walmart or BestBuy.
Dover - fyi in the picture I referenced above - thats me aiming the Spectra 33 speaker at my son with my daughter taking the picture. What fun we had back then when they were 16. Now 19 they want no part of the hobby. My son carries around a portable wireless speaker (one speaker) that gets synced with his smartphone carrying his songs - that one speaker actually does one note bass that sounds like - bop, bop-bop, bop-bop-bop, bop....
This fact probably weighs in somewhat with my recent decision to get down to three speakers.
Dover what are your room dimensions - your reference Proac Tablettes make me assume your room is on the small side? Also I am curious to know what you have found to be the average audio room size in New Zealand based on your experience ?
Having heard many Acoustats over the years, including the 3's, 2+2's, both with the medallion updates and OFC panels, the Spectra's and some heavily modified ones, I would suggest you have a listen to some Proac Ref 8 Signatures. These monitors are more transparent, quicker and more faithful to the music than any of the Acoustats I have auditioned over the last 3 decades. With my original Proac Tablettes and the Sota Star (vacuum) with ET2 and Denon 103 I could clearly hear more information through the whole musical spectrum. Although down in absolute level the bass was more articulate, informative and most importantly more accurate in timing. The Tablettes do not have the one note bass the Acoustats produce. The Acoustats tend to make everything sound the same - they are highly coloured - even with subtstantial mods, they still remain coloured.
Part of this journey Audio decision made to raise cash by doing shootouts and selling off speakers. The objective is to get down to three speakers; one for each of my basement music rooms and one for our shared living room upstairs. The three speakers will include a new for me very special speaker coming in soon. Hope to have shootouts completed and money in pocket by Jan-Feb - God willing.
Shootout result one.
Modded Acoustat Model 3 versus Eminent Technology LFT8a Model 3's make music sound more like in a studio (quiet) - a little ghostly - an ESL trait. The ET LFT8a's give off more of a hall/church ambience in comparison. Both very nice just a little different. Too close to call for me. The ET speakers are current production and can be replaced; the Model 3's can't be replaced so... I sold the ET speakers. I can't say enough about the US made ET speaker by Bruce Thigpen. Not very efficient 84 db and requires a decent amp; but when setup on one of the room's bass nodes the woofers are fast and in sync with the panels. Both speakers were compared with a Classe CA300 and a Music Reference RM9 at the 4ohm tap.
Next up
Same Modded Acoustat Model 3 (older) versus Acoustat Spectra 33 (newer).
Hi Jim - been away chasing small mouth bass and the elusive lake trout. Great that the ET2 is making music for you again.
Some thoughts to your questions.
Do you know if it is easy to reverse the drive pulley so the 45rpm is on top and the 33.3 is on the bottom? That would help me a lot.
Its been a long time since I owned the hw19mkIV. I remember how the 33/45 pulley could pop out but dont think you can reverse it. Best to send Mike at VPI an email. Good guy. He is also the one that got me to try the spider wire fishing line (his favorite) when I was experimenting with thread on my TNT. As a fisherman I went into a bass pro shop at the time looking for it only to find 15 brands of spider wire. That hobby is like this one.
better performance on the VPI can be gotten by replacing the spring suspension with Sorbothane pucks. Perhaps that could also give me better centering on the belt as well as improved resolution.
imo the vpi spring suspension works well with structure feedback but can go out of level too quickly as it jiggles and therefore didn't work great with the ET2 that needs to be level. Defeating the suspension with pucks worked better, but then I needed to treat for structure feedback better under the table. Having the springs or decouplers under the shelf that the turntable rests on helped. Its best from my experience to have the TT shelf resting level in a home built sandbox (very easy to make) or on the wall (load bearing only).
Anyway, I saw folks using a Medco pump in the thread, and saw I can still get one at a good price from the source you guys gave. I like the fact that it is quiet, but the pressure is too high for a stock ET2 manifold. Do you know how much psi the stock manifold can handle without oscillating or worsening the audio performance?
This is one of those audio topics that can get controversial as imo there is not one answer and it is system/room dependent. Let me answer it the best way I can. Bruce made the ET2 very hardy.
Without playing a record two things can happen when you pump more than 3.5 psi through the arm. With your ear a foot away from the ET2 you may hear leaking from the seals that can't be heard with 3.5 psi. This is good because it lets you correct the connections. Secondly with alot more pressure the hose may blow off depending on how tight it is attached. Just re-attach.
When playing a record. As you know from the ET2 thread, this tonearm is unique and different from other air bearing linear trackers as its air support system is fixed; the ET2 does not rely on damping with the air hose, moving with the armtube for normal operation to track the groove. It has been designed and tested by Bruce to split the horizontal and vertical resonant frequencies. imo as a user (10 years +) and listening - when you pump more air through you change resonances at play as the spindle is levitated from the air pressure. Approaching too much pressure the spindle will eventually start to vibrate. Its connected to the I Beam, armtube, and cartridge. The stylus is affected and the way it vibrates in the groove is affected. This change in stylus action gets amplified along the electro mechanical chain and you hear the differences. That's my layman answer. With that said.
The 3.5 psi for the stock ET2 imo is a minimum conservative number from Bruce as a manufacturer for the arm to work well and within parameters. I think if your ET2 is in good shape upwards of between 4 -7 psi on a stock ET2 should not pose problems from my experience. The small Medo pump because of the type of pump it is - produces 12 psi measured at the pump itself - but when I measured the psi at the arm with that reguator/psi pressure gauge it had dropped to 7-8 psi if I remember. There is PSI loss with the Medo. So since the PSI is around 7 I would go try it. Interested in your findings.
The first ET2 I bought was used and had partially clogged capillaries and the old pump was down 1/2 (.5) psi. It would not get through the last track without at least 4 psi. But the way it played the other tracks (I didn't know at the time) was sub par based on its condition. How many of the original over 2000 ET2, ET2.5 owners are using them in sub par condition ?
So to answer your question based on my experience. If too much air is put through and starts affecting the spindle the actual spindle will start resonating. The detail in the music will start blurring. Its kind of like when your stylus gets a little dirt on it if you are lazy to clean it. I take notice of it from familiar recordings - something is amiss or off and you clean the stylus. Likewise sonically the music sounds thinner, leaner with less information. imo - this is how you will know what pressure psi your system can handle based on your own system / room.
Jim - if no luck finding the parts for the regulator / filter I can pick up the parts put it together and mail it to you if you like. I can be reached at [email protected].
Im still having a very hard time trying to get the ET2 phono wires to stop interfering with the arm movement.
I discovered that once you use bypass the stock wire (very easy to do) and go direct into the preamp you are able to manoeuvre the wires better, Getting the wires outside the armtube (although not as aesthetic) allows you to actually disconnect the wires and level the arm without them. Connect the wires after and you really see how much the wires can affect the ET2. My preamp is to the right of the ET 2.5. I use a happy face loop U between the arm and the preamp with the unshielded wire. Any parts that will touch something before the actual connection to the preamp are propped up and touch Blue Tack. With the volume up, unmuted and no record playing I move the wires around behind the preamp to determine if they are positioned good against interference.
Hey Chris, I am very happy you took the time to write up a very detailed response to my questions. My ET2 was bought a long time ago when it first came out, and I mounted it on a SOTA Sapphire TT which worked OK, but I did not like the mounting mechanics. I later went to a VPI MKIII and installed a special VPI upgrade kit that replaced suspension parts and the platter. I also added the VPI electronic flywheel as it may have been originally called (hard to remember now). One of the things I did not like about that upgrade kit is that afterward my drive belt sat very close to the top of the platter edge and I have to be very careful when removing LPs not to let my fingers accidentally pull the belt off with the record. It is a POIA to get back on! Do you know if it is easy to reverse the drive pulley so the 45rpm is on top and the 33.3 is on the bottom? That would help me a lot. I see in the ET2 thread (I read every entry in the whole thing, it took me many, many hours!) that better performance on the VPI can be gotten by replacing the spring suspension with Sorbothane pucks. Perhaps that could also give me better centering on the belt as well as improved resolution. Anyway, I saw folks using a Medco pump in the thread, and saw I can still get one at a good price from the source you guys gave. I like the fact that it is quiet, but the pressure is too high for a stock ET2 manifold. Do you know how much psi the stock manifold can handle without oscillating or worsening the audio performance? That is why I want to duplicate your pressure regulator. Im glad that it has a built-in filter! I did find some kits like the one on Amazon, but the gauge reads up to 100 psi, and I need better resolution. The standard fittings too, are for the thick compressed air tool quick release connectors and not for the plastic aquarium hose. I need the barb-tipped fittings, but could not find any searching through the web. I will follow your links above and see if that helps. Living in the SF Bay area, Im sure I can find a shop that sells this kind of stuff, so maybe I might be able to pursue that if the web search does not pan out. Last weekend, I got my VPI/ET2 back up and going after 8 years of setting in the closet while my wife and I built our retirement home. Boy, it sure is great to hear again what analog can do that digital cannot! Im still having a very hard time trying to get the ET2 phono wires to stop interfering with the arm movement. I will pose my issue to the ET2 thread and troll for potential guidance. Again, your response was most generous, kind regards, Jim
Hi Icewater_7 - thanks for your post. see below for answers.
I have been trying to find your air regulator searching on line but can't find it. I see that Amazon has something that looks like it for an airbrush setup, but that one does not have fittings for 1/4" plastic tubing in and out.
My unit has been assembled from parts purchased at this hydraulic supplier.
There is probably a hydraulics retail outlet near where you live or the parts can be purchased online. These suppliers provide parts directly to the hydraulics industry.
came to about $70.00 from what I remember and included.
The regulator casing body (includes the black knob on top for adjustment of psi and locking it in. Clear bowl on bottom with dust /particle/moisture filter. It also has a relief valve on the bottom if water does collect more on this later. Includes the bracket for mounting. (screws into the regulator body) Pressure gauge screws into regulator body. Different gauge ranges are available . Two brass outlets for connecting ¼ inch tube in and out tubes. Thats it. Takes one minute to assemble the parts.
I dont think you will find this as a finished product only because there are different choices and combinations that can be made. If you go into the actual store watch the look on the sales persons face when you tell him/her what you are going to use it for :^)
I want to buy a new replacement pump (mini one linked to in the big ET2 thread) and regulate it down to 3.5 psi for my stock ET2. Is there enough gauge resolution on the one you have to accurately set the psi that low?
On my gauge the numbers in black are 5 - 10 15.... up to 30. So you would be reading just below the first black number which is 5. You can substitute a 15 psi max pressure gauge easily. This would make 3.5 more easily read in the first 1/3 of the gauge.
Do I need a "surge tank" too? What would I use to replace my old particle filter or does this regulator filter out dust as well as moisture?
This regulator can be used wide open so it just monitors air pressure and filters out dust, moisture and particles. Or you can turn the knob to lower the psi, push it down to lock it and then acts as an regulator. Although it may somehow dynamically provide some type of surge functionality as the air enters and exits I would still use a surge tank just after your pump.
A small story. My Timeter pump has a surge tank as part of its design and dumps condensation like a car. For anyone if you look under your car you will see a tube that water drips out of onto the road. Because it is a pump with pressure in this application, there is a nozzle that is spring loaded on the end of this tube. You can see this tube in my pump picture. This allows the water to drip out in the pan at the bottom and for system to maintain pressure it is set for. There is a regulator on the pump side too.
Anyway a couple years ago this nozzle got clogged up (minerals in the water) the system still worked but it backed up the condensation system and sent the moisture down the line to the second regulator/filter in my room. It started to fill up. I did not notice till it was over half full !
Without that in room regulator all that moisture would have gone into the ET2s capillaries. Easy enough to clean out (think how you clean your barbecue of spiders ) but still a bit of a pain as it has to be taken apart. Other than that one alarming episode I have seen not one drop in the regulators glass bottle in my room the pump is that good. Since that incident however, for maintenance I now once a month - open the back of the pump and insert the nozzle in an empty water bottle that has been half filled with CLR and leave it overnight. No more problems.
Btw- the little Medo pump in the thread is a real dymano but should be used with a small fan placed beside it for cooling. They are used in hospitals but not in continuous operation. Reason the fan is needed. Im interested to hear how you make out. Please let me know and join us on the ET2 thread and say Hi. Cheers Chris
I have been trying to find your air regulator searching on line but can't find it. I see that Amazon has something that looks like it for an airbrush setup, but that one does not have fittings for 1/4" plastic tubing in and out. I want to buy a new replacement pump (mini one linked to in the big ET2 thread) and regulate it down to 3.5 psi for my stock ET2. Is there enough guage resolution on the one you have to accurately set the psi that low? Do I need a "surge tank" too? What would I use to replace my old particle filter or does this regulator filter out dust as well as moisture? Your answer would be a great help!
Hi Richard thanks for your post. You made me think about the room again. I havent looked at it for a few months. So I had to think about my thoughts before responding.
It is a luxury having a dedicated space.
In Ontario, Canada, homes generally have full basements many with 8 feet plus ceilings that go at least 3-4 feet in the ground depending on where in Ontario to get below the frost line to deal with winter conditions. They are usually not finished spaces so are open for grabs to crazy audiophiles/music lovers to use as man(women) caves. For this reason alone Ontarians and I am sure other province and northern USA music lovers are prime audiophile candidates. My space just one year ago was all concrete floor, concrete block walls with wood studs/insulation and used for storage. My wifes storage. I made a sacrifice and moved some of her stuff out to the garage. So I lost guy space in the garage. Guys dont like to lose garage space? Kind of reminds me a little of the movie War of the Roses but with less drama here. I can relate to the line from Michael Douglas that was something like I have more square footage over her. My wife regards the basement as sub-quality space. Little does she know.
So I agree with you that dedicated space is a very big luxury. If I had one shared room to use and had a spouse to please; I would definitely be using a speaker design that could fairly easily be slid into prime position during listening then slid back for aesthetics to satisfy the spouse. Personally would not settle for the up against the wall shared speaker room unless their design meant they needed to be positioned this way.
Are you planning any special details in it like say a dedicated power feed or room treatment?
Yes but let me say for me, its always been about listening to a naked room first. Meaning - as it is normally used whether an empty space or a shared space/room, to hear what she can handle; then treating the space as I go along. I like to see how far I can get without major treatment first. This is because room treatments imo are usually for the type of speaker been planned for or already in the room..... no?. What happens when the speakers change?
A key step, actually critical step to me for any room is identifying the bass nodes and nulls. This is very important for any room where the speakers have the capability to fill the room with bass. I have my own technique for doing this. If anyone is interested I can tell you how I do it. Its very important to me for speakers to be placed on one of these nodes for resonance control. The room is a living breathing thing. Constantly changing due to the temperature and humidity. The materials and gear in the room expand and contract with the seasons. Living in a four season world makes you aware of this.
My objective with this space is to make the room flexible for different speakers and gear configurations. The curtains are all on rods and can be slid around as needed for damping or not. The ceiling (was just exposed wood and steel beams, ductwork before) now has its cavities filled or enclosed with Roxul sound insulation and the ceiling including steel beams and duckwork has Roxul and tongue and groove pine enclosing it. It works well to diffuse the sound and sounds good to me. The steel horizontal beam and ductwork that protrudes down into the room in the pic helps greatly with room reflections. This has real advantages over a blank empty space. If anyone doesnt believe me try listening to the sound in your room with and without your couch in it.
I have done all the work so far myself except for hooking in the 2 dedicated lines to the main electrical box. I had two 20a lines put in this spring. The fusebox is very easy access in the basement and it happens to be located on the wall behind the left black Acoustat Spectra 33 speaker. As far as dimensions go - think of the room as an upside down letter L (or backwards number 7). The picture has me standing where the two lines join and shows the top portion in the space. It extends to the white wall. It is 17 wide by about 24 ft long in the current setup. For now I have heavy curtains that extend past the white wall to the right of that old couch in the picture separating the two spaces that make up the upside down L. My other dedicated room which I have had since 94 is directly adjacent to this one. I was standing in the doorway when I took the picture. I can stand at the open doorway between the rooms, hear the same lp / cd playing in both rooms same time and distinguish basic differences in presentation even though not in the sweetspot.
You seem to have quite a few speakers
I am 51 and have been at this hobby consciously since I was 12-13? I quess not sure. I have acquired what I consider good stuff in later earning years like others. There are also a couple each of preamps, amps, TTs, various cables in that picture. There are many ways to skin a cat in this hobby and keep yourself happy. I find the multi presentations from different speakers a lot of fun but more importantly it helps to keep me grounded, honest to myself and open minded. Just when you think youve heard something amazing from one speaker and are ready to proclaim it as the next coming; you go listen on another one and it presents the music to you in its unique way.
The new space has a very big weakness (Achilles heel). Our family room where my wife watches tv is on the floor above on the other side of the white wall with a picture on it. She doesnt like music above 70 db. Why do we always find out these things after the kids come along. She was rocking and rolling with me prior to that. I guess she was pretending... .
This unfortunately means I can forget about bringing the Relationship Destroyer speakers - aka - Winnie the Poohs - into this space. They will need to remain in my bunker aka dads panic room.
When she is not home I like to add in subs and crank up the music in the new room, jump around to the music waving my arms around. I have been caught doing this twice now. This activity (exercise?) is really the main reason for the delay in finishing...along with some cabernet sauvignon.
Chris. Hi. Your new room looks like an exciting project. It is a luxury having a dedicated space. Are you planning any special details in it like say a dedicated power feed or room treatment? It looks quite spacious, which makes me most envious. Do you know its dimensions?
For those aware of my space buildout in my basement - here is a shot of the work in progress space. Its probably 40 % complete. Pls no comments on the mess. :(
Active work on the build out ended in late May when it warmed up. Will likely not start up again till late fall again. The gear will all end up on the left wall - I think. The JN Lenco and my diy SP10 can be seen on the back wall right now. I am trying to think up an aesthetic solution to the steel poles - they hold up the house so I cant really try to move them. The room is a big L shape so the speakers can be setup opposite the left wall too. Havent decided yet. Best sonics will dictate where they end up.
I set it up first per manufacturers instructions; then I analyzed it and I came up with my own procedure to refine it using the, imo, great dv505 jig. I describe this in the referenced post. This got me to about 75 80 %. The rest is done by ear as best as I can do against the second ET2 that is in that room. Why the ET2? Because it sounds more pleasant, musical and more satisfying to listen to. Comes closest to tape. All vinyl bass regardless of tonearm I tune listening to tape - raising and lowering the VTA to try to match it. I have to reset vtf each time for the pivot arms whenever I do this, because the vtf changes each time I raise or lower the fr64s or dv505 tonearm VTA. This is physics and a real PITA. Anyone with any tonearm that has advertised vta on the fly should try this test. Set you cartridge vtf at the lowest vta setting. Then raise it to the highest and check the vtf again. It will have changed on you and will be lower. Check your alignment while you are at it too. The ET2, 2.5 is the only tonearm I am aware of that does vta on the fly without changing vta and alignment on you. Current and past arms including the jmw12 and technics arms change parameters on you.
Also I found a substantial improvement leaving the stylus pressure at 0 and applying the tracking force by adjusting the counterweight.
Dover - I did try this technique with the dv505 quite a while back. But with the dv505 we are dealing with main and sub arms. Remained with the factory setup on the dv505.
Ct0517 The main advantage of dynamically balanced ( spring applied tracking force ) is to control the cantilever and provide a damped behaviour on warped records. Dynamic balancing is more appropriate with low compliance cartridges. If you wanted to generalise you would say that higher compliance cartridges would be more suited to static balancing. Some folk apply a bit of each - say 1/2 gram of spring plus the rest static. This is very much arm/cartridge dependent. My argument is the main advantage of dynamic balancing is academic if you are not playing warped records. The FR has a high effective mass and very low resonant characteristics. My preference for FR64 plus Koetsu Black is static balance. Having said that if I observe the behaviour of the cantilever the Koetsu does not appear to be as low a compliance as claimed in their specs.
Thanks for your JN Reference Lenco impression Dover.
I feel when someone listens to another system, in another room (in this case many time zones away from your own), and calls the experience very musical; it is a very big compliment.
So many variables go into the sound itself and affect resolution and detail, especially with vinyl. Room, speaker type placement, other gear involved. Imagine bringing that behemoth of a table home and listening to it with 2 same tonearms, and cartridges; at the same time in your own room?
My table used to be JNs personal reference table that he brought to 100 pound Classic status before selling to a local friend. As he continued with his Lenco evolution, the updates he came up with, he also performed for his friends table. This included the reference spindle, reference metacrylate mat which he bonds with the platter to become one, and the bear paw feet. Its at this point that I bought it from his friend.
Did you get a sense from it that if dropped into water even though wood that it would sink?
I find the original FR64 headshell does a remarkable job of damping the cartridge body resonances from high compliance MMs. I can literally pound (not tap) on the Lenco deck itself and the only sound that can be heard is my knuckles against the plinth. Imo - it says something for the arm quality itself and plinth build. Look forward to playing more with the tonearm after summer. Cheers
Yes my FR64s is silver wired with the original VTA adjuster. To me the adjuster adds another layer of possible reduction in rigidity and I suspect the arm would be better without it, but as I change cartridges quite often it is very useful. I have found headshells to be quite variable and cartridge dependent - the Orsonic very smooth up top but a bit fat in the bottom end, the Ikeda big and tight but not quite as smooth as the Orsonic. I use an Audiocraft for the FR1mkiii, Orsonics for the Koetsu & Dynavector Nova 13, and the Ikeda headshell with the Ikeda cartridge. I can recommend the Sumiko headshell as being excellent value for money, medium mass, and has azimuth adjustment ( a must ). I think your AT is probably a bit light. I haven't played with MM's on the FR64. The Nantais Lenco sounded very musical with a Benz cartridge, but the system resolution overall was down a little on what I'm used to. Interestingly Jean Nantais prefers other direct drives to the Technics SP10mkII and says the Technics sounds jittery by comparison to say the Sony Direct drive that he has. This is in line with what I hear with the Technics.
I had a good listen to the Jean Nantais Reference a couple of weeks ago in Ottawa.
Were you familiar with the room and gear ...would love to hear your opinion of it if you can share ?
FR64 I am a little embarrassed to say this tonearm has not yet made it past future audio project with me; to learn about it and fine tune it. The pic is the original one when it was setup temporarily in our living room. Its now in the second room I am building out. With the room build out, the OTLs, tweaking my main TT setup,.....plus summer.... I have not had time.
I don't feel I can even provide an opinion on it as I have lots to learn. So I will remember your tips (thanks)and reach out to you when I get around to it.
I can say for a pivot arm the anti-skating system is probably the slickest I have come across. I personally dont like weights on a string like my DV505. I see them as designer cop out. They dont belong on multi thousand dollar tonearms - imo. I do have 4 or 5 headshells including one from the Japanese seller I bought if from, that is really popular in Japan on the FR64. Its an Audio Technica MS-9.
I also considered at one time getting the VTA adjuster. But it doesn't make it VTA on the fly ? correct ? Can someone confirm this ? Dover do you use the VTA adjuster ?
Chris, I had a good listen to the Jean Nantais Reference a couple of weeks ago in Ottawa. Having a look at your set up I noticed a couple of issues with your FR64 set up. The lateral balance weight should end up dead centre if the bearings are horizontal. You cant level the arm board, you must adjust the armboard until the bearings are dead horizontal. When you achieve this you will find the arm floats at 0 balance, with the weight dead centre on the beam. Also I found a substantial improvement leaving the stylus pressure at 0 and applying the tracking force by adjusting the counterweight. This opened up the soundstage considerably. Last one - the FR headshell is awful - try Orsonic/Ikeda.
The reason for this post. I ran today for the first time with them. It was a liberating experience. It reminded me a lot of my audio hobby as it also provides me with a liberating experience; but in a different way.
If you run I highly recommend you give these a try. Especially if you have knee or foot pains that hinder you. The common running shoe makes you pound down on the heel - not natural.
Can I assume you are in the audio biz based on your moniker?
Nope! Not in the audio biz.
If you have personal experience with Peters products, I would be very much interested in talking with you, or anyone else for that matter. Especially any recent experiences (last 4-5 years).
I will be interested too. If Mcalister Audio has addressed their issues, have to add OTL-195 to my list of tube amps.
Can I assume you are in the audio biz based on your moniker? If I am wrong I apologize. I have a tremendous respect for anyone in the audio business. A business that for most of the folks I have come across; is based on audio passion and a love of music. I would not however want to deal with audiophile demands on a business level myself. My kids are challenging enough.
I will continue to post impressions of the OTLs as they are front and center in my main room. This room has always been about stress relief. If something is in there that causes more stress it is not good. They will continue to get a lot of use.
If you read my system thread you know my history with Peter (whom I just met late last year); the trial of the demo OTLs and now these new ones. There was no shipping involved in my case as Peter is within driving distance. They came to me within what I would consider a reasonable time period from when I committed to buying them. If you have personal experience with Peters products, I would be very much interested in talking with you, or anyone else for that matter. Especially any recent experiences (last 4-5 years).
