Audio Hobby Thoughts, Philosophy & System Description
Current Room Anchors - Room 1 and 2 active
Room 1 - Matrix 800's anchors - for creating that ..........Maxell Tape Effect.
Room 2 - (Adjacent to Room 1) - Quad 57 + two Dynaudio BM12s subs - Midrange reference
Room 3 - Acoustat Model 3 - Modded - upstairs - For imaging larger than life (literally speaking) - see last picture. Unfortunately is next to my wifes TV room. So it gets limited use.
Stored - B&W Electrostatic DM70c Continental - Wife calls them the washing machines. John Bowers called them his favorite speaker. Very interesting and very rare. Could anchor a room but they need special placement and lots of room. ESL portion needs to be 100% functional and at ear level or they will sound soft.
Room 2 is mostly digital, guests, and used for trialing used unplayed records before they make the queue for room 1. Room 1 has been called by my family as Dads Hole. I prefer panic room as it helped to raise my kids and stay married...so far.
Psychology Part
Music is critical to ones health and well being. I went through a couple stretches in life due to events without it and the results were not good. The goal for me to get lost in the music and have it transport me to that special place. Now whether you get there by a typical 2 channel home stereo with speakers, headphones, or other means is not important. Getting there is the important part.
Audiophile not.....
Have always been the type that if I frequent a room enough, a system usually ends up in there. My wife finally put an end to this, and allows me to do what I want in the full basement of our house.....so..... In this described virtual system, I have had Room A since 1994. Adjacent Room B is in the process of being finished, but I have been using it for listening for a few years now adding in room treatments as needed.
History
Like many others, have been at this audio hobby since I was about 13 when I was consciously aware of the gear versus the actual music relationship. I am now 55 and currently with two adjacent music rooms setup with different gear. Both rooms can do full orchestra symphonies with large dynamic swings. Getting Room B with the Quad 57's to do this was a challenge; but I was able to get it to work with the right amps and powered subs. The Quads require a very different room acoustic setup over the Matrix 800's in Room A.
I am a pure amateur, audiophile, music lover, past trombone player, and have never been part of the Audio Business as a manufacturer, dealer, distributor, or have any special interest relationships with any of these people. I consider myself a full time music lover, and part time audiophile; although I have friends that could argue this point. I have tried to upload pics and information here, that give a flavor of some of my audio journeys, and associated bouts of Audiophilia Nervosa. :^)
"Audio Heaven, is for Music Lovers - Audiophiles are never happy.
With that, in the real, authentic, Heaven; there is room, even for Audiophiles"
8^0
Living in the country
Having moved away from the city core in the 90's, I have found that audiophiles away from the cities, are in general, scare to find and or keep to themselves. Many of my audio friends are now remote, due to the distance between us; so only virtual communications are possible most of the time.
The negative aspects of Isolation aside; one good aspect of living in the country is the clean power and lack of noise and vibrations caused by traffic, trucks, etc...Once experienced and its effect on your listening, you become very aware of the multitude of audiophile products available as band aids, to cover, veil, but never eliminate these artifacts in densely populated areas.
I was born in the 60's so I grew up with Classic Rock, Beatles, etc... But I love all music, new music and Opera hits home with me. I played trombone in Jr and High school so the Bass Clef has a bias with me. Listen more now to the ladies crooning at me, Classical and Jazz with occasional Classical Rock; I think a well recorded full Orchestra Symphony with huge Dynamic swings has the most magic for me.
***** MAIN ROOM aka Panic Room, Dad's Hole, ....*****
I have had Room A since 1994. It has 3 dedicated lines 20, 20 , 15. This room is personal use. Room B is more for entertaining and spending time with friends.
Room A is much better insulated and isolated from my wife. As much as I would like to move the Matrix 800's to the larger Room B space to try them, it would probably just get me that much more trouble.
Room A and B are both located on a concrete poured floor. A has a an underpad and flat carpet on top. Spikes from gear stands and speakers are able to penetrate to the concrete with no problem ensuring a solid mechanical connection. The speakers are located 6 feet from the front wall with the room being 24 ft in length. Putting in the 800's over the 801's meant that some of the room treatments were able to be removed due to the 800's double woofers high and low. This is also one of the reasons I call them very room friendly.
1/4 inch 2 track machine. The three pictures attached. Top Left - known as two turntables. my machine being worked on Middle pic - 807 Top Right Pic. A picture of Roger Ginsley with a 48 track machine he is about to split into two 24 tracks. My Studer 807 is calibrated by him. He is also the one that makes the interconnects I use with it.
JC Verdier La Platine Vintage Granito Original Design
2012
http://www.jcverdier.com/ADSL/platineVintage.html
Just a delight to use. With its presentation, sends the message home that it is all amount the music. Effortless, seamless, but experience is needed is setting up the thread. A real Goldilocks scenario of the thread being too loose, too tight or just right. Different thread tensions alternate how the motor and platter work together and change the speed. The objective is to get the correct speed with as little effect from the motor. ....
Original design. Granito Model My version uses a motor only equipped for thread Granito base and solid aluminum billet armpod. The later newer motors are equipped now for belts too - but no one runs them this way that I know of. This decision was made imo to generate more sales as it is easier to setup. But imo the belt grip would play havoc with the motor / magnets marriage which was designed for thread. I would think that belt stretch and its physical changes with temp and humidity changes would also cause problems, and interfere with the natural braking action of the magnets. This is my opinion as mine is thread only. There is a greater learning curve involved with thread.
This is the only turntable I am aware of whose platter design includes both acceleration (inertia) and braking (natural forces from same pole magnets) to deal with the records behavior - going from soft to heavily modulated grooves. The motor design, like a marriage with the platter. Think of the childhood merry go rounds that once up to speed - even a little girl could keep them going. To understand how the motor and platter are like a marriage, one need only turn the motor off and the platter spins for 30 seconds with the thread attached. However cut the thread while the platter is turning, and the platter stops much quicker as the two magnets demonstrate their braking capability. Impressive to me is just the plain simplicity of design using physics to get the job done with a piece of string and magnets. I found it important in setup to have the thread positioned in a way that is the least intrusive on the platter; so as to allow the platter to not only do its job as designed; but to also provide the needed jolts as required from the motor to maintain speed stability.
In my opinion - you will know when you have set it up properly because you are able to turn the motor off and on and also deflect the thread with your finger - as the records plays - and not affect the music delivery to your ears. I base this when compared directly to 15 IPS Master Tape dubs. In testing for accuracy I run both simultaneously with one lagging 10 seconds behind the other and switch between the two - compensating for gain as tape is a high level signal. When the thread is setup in this fashion there is minimal stress put on it. The current silk thread I am using has recently passed the one year mark. Overall Big Sound from a small piece of thread.
Some facts Magnetic bearing design. Brass colored rings are big shielded permanent magnets; same magnet poles repelling each other. The result is "levitation" the space you see between them. No thrust bearing involved. A central spindle bathed in a special oil keeps them aligned. For me personally I did not know what TT bearing noise sounded like until I heard music on a TT without a physical bearing. The plinth is made of Granito. Granito is not real granite but a non-resonant material that looks and feels like granite. A limited edition model.
"Granito is a material composed by little pieces of marble of very different origin agglomerated inside a mold with cement. Machined and polished. The resonance of the plinth with its suspension is about 5Hz and it is well absorbed by the air cavities."
Mr. JC Verdier Note: Newer Platines are provided with a setup bearing. The manual is very clear on the setup bearing. It is just that - a setup tool only. COUNTERFEIT PLATINES Unfortunately there are non-authentic tables out there worldwide from 20 different counterfeiting makers. These tables are out there with people using them. If anyone is unaware of this, see the Platine Information on the JC Verdier website for more info.
The only advice I can give is when buying a Verdier Platine you should be careful to ensure it is a real Platine, especially if buying privately. If you already have one and have doubts, check with an authorized dealer or J.C. Verdier company in France to ensure it is authentic.
Custom Eminent Technology Model 2.5 for MC Carts
This is a custom build ET 2.5 Tonearm from Bruce Thigpen - A 19 PSI design.I am using the new Long I Beam. Weights are reduced by half and therefore the vertical inertia is higher - a goal of the design. The Aluminum Gooseneck was sourced from NZ. It was through Richard Krebs also an ET2 owner. I am using Single Shot WBT wiring, Aluminum mount plate. Magnesium armtube. Double Leaf Spring and damping trough. If you are an ET2 owner you know what I am talking about :^).... Advantages of the ET2 airbearing linear tracker tonearm - no VTF changes with VTA adjustment, no offset setup, antiskating and immunity to acoustic feedback, as it rides on film of air.
One shot wire. Run at 19 PSI. Damping trough with 1 cc of Oil. Lead weights at the very end of the I Beam.
VTA on the fly while the record plays and it doesn't change any parameters (VTF) like all other tonearms do. This is due to a patented VTA on the fly system. Have you ever noticed how with same thickness records....some can sound brighter, some bloated and some just right? When they press the records the different plants can have different standards. Records are then cut with varying angles.. even same thickness ones.
See ET2 Bass Management Below
Tonearm Wiring Loom - One shot WBT NextGen
2011 One shot wiring loom for the ET 2.5. WBT 0102 CU connectors. The design of the ET2 (2.5) allows for this wiring to be changed out in about 10 minutes. Silver and copper can be experimented with.
The PUMP ET2
Life Support for the ET2's. Timeter 3000 Medical Industrial Pump. The most important part of the ET2 arms setup. Industrial commercial grade medical pump. Its actually a patient respirator.
These have an hours counter and come up for sale cheaply on ebay. If you have space in your basement somewhere they are turnkey once set up.
I have tried large aquarium pumps, smaller medical pumps, compressors.
This Timeter Medical 50 psi pump has been customized to allow me to regulate air pressure coming out and send 19 psi to the ET2 tonearms. Another regulator with gauge at the arm allows me to accurately adjust for the PSI coming into the arm. Located in another room -cannot be heard in sound room when running.
The smoothness of air delivery is excellent. No resonance. The pump dumps/expels moisture like a car's AC. Have never seen a drop in the moisture collector; other than one incident when the pump outlet clogged with minerals from the moisture. I now soak the pump outlet in CLR for 2 hours every two months.
ET2 In Room Air Regulator & Filter
2nd Regulator and Filter on wall near the ET arm. Confirms and controls the 19 psi and also filters out moisture in line. Have never seen any moisture in this filter. This device lets me change the pressure going to the arm by just turning the top mounted knob. This regulator is mobile. It can be placed in my lap while the music is playing and pressure adjusted to hear how it affects the music delivery.
Audio Research DAC8
From a DAC only function perspective identical to the ARC REF DAC except the output stage is tubed on the REF. Interesting read. :^)
Owned many many years. Modded power supply box. Variable Gain for dealing with hot, and compressed source material - Digital and Analog. On the fly cartridge impedance loading. Used in ARC's hotrod mode. Direct output and bypass switch engaged. Amperex Bugle Boys.
Matrix 800
Unique one time all assault effort from B&W at a time when 2 channel was the focus. Smooth, musical yet still detailed. Room Friendly if you can believe it. Imagine 4 subs two high and two low pointed at you for 2 channel music. Each driver 2 woofer, mids, tweeter have their own crossover easily accessible from the back.
They were a 2 1/2 year study from Bowers & Wilkins under John Bowers (RIP). I have looked for a long time for a pair. The only time they become available are through owners going to a smaller condo (retiring or divorce).
All B&W 800 models that followed the Matrix series are the same only in model designation - 800. They are not a replacement or upgrade. They are a different build, design, objectives, sound. Post Matrix 800's are a smaller speaker system (require a sub for full range); they do have better WAF (more easily placed into a shared room with the wife)
800 matrix can be played at low and high levels with the right amp. 93db 2.83 volts/1m, Mine are Quad wired. They can be run on four separate amps if one desires as each driver has its own crossover.
Top and bottom woofers each excite a different set of waves. These waves cancel each other out. Thats the theory. My listening supports this. Smooth tight bass. It is quite something to experience since their size make you think they will over take the room. Also IMO each woofer works only half as much with four versus two for the desired SPL. All of this results in a very flexible listening position. All drivers are physically isolated with separate crossovers and Van Den Hul silver wiring from the factory. I run them with both tubes and Solid State. Krell and the modded Music Reference RM9.
Krell Amplifier Story My research found me talking with Dan D'Agostino who used matrix 800's as his reference speakers when he designed this era of Krell amps. Specifically the FPB series like my FPB600. On a dedicated 20 amp circuit with upgraded 20 amp power cord using Furutech Gold IEC.
RM9 Push Pull Tube Amp. Used to power Acoustat, 801, 800 speakers. WBT 0700 Connectors. KT88 output tubes. Hardwired for 4 ohm tap. Total Overhaul done April 2015
MATRIX 800 INSTALL
Installation
800 Series Bass Alignment Filter / Equalizer.
The graph shows the 801 matrix frequency response with and without the filter.
All 800 series B&W matrix speakers are an active design and are intended to be used with an equalizer by the designer (John Bowers) to achieve the best frequency response.
This attached graph was sent to me by B&W Europe years ago
It is the frequency plot for the 801 matrix "without" using the supplied Bass Alignment Filter. (not sure if it is 801 s2 or s3)
B&W England are the ones that drew the two dotted lines on the graph.
The 801 matrix speakers were designed to be used with the BAF. The speakers with BAF devices were shipped to original owners. But these devices became lost as speakers changed hands. They pop up on their own on ebay.
The two interesting parts.
Part 1
Not only does adding the BAF filter as designed give you a smoother response and allow the speaker to hit 20 hz. The BAF makes the 801 matrix speaker much more efficient. The ohm ratings can be seen on the right 8 - 6 - 4 - 2 ohms. The 801 matrix s2 and s3 are a very easy 6 ohm steady load with the active equalization provided by the BAF. This opens up amp choices.
Part 2
Audiophile opinions on the BAF device are kind of split. Not sure if its an even 50% like it, 50% don't like it, but you have the two camps. Why the difference? The room; its acoustic properties, and how the 801 (aka relationship destroyer) deals with it. There is a reason B&W no longer make the 801. You need a dedicated room. Its makes no business sense.
801 matrix owners today (there are many out there and some reading here), that could NOT make the BAF work with the speaker; or who never used it, or even heard of the BAF before; are taxing their amps way more to make bass with the 801.
************ SECOND ROOM ***********************
A backwards seven with the main section 20 -23. This room is the "top of the Seven". It is separated from the bottom portion of the Number 7 shape (12 x 24) by a heavy curtain. It is also adjacent to my other room of which the door is left open. The back of the room has the stairs that go upstairs. One of the pictures has me standing on the stairs. All this makes for a much bigger room as far as sound volume and space is concerned. An in progress dedicated listening space that accommodates different speaker types.
03/31/2011 Dynamic, ESL, Planar IMO - We listen to our rooms. The speakers in the rooms are like boats. They both represent freedom to me. A 12 foot aluminum boat is perfect for a small lake and your favourite person. But out on the ocean or a big body of water The water/boat analogy in this case is like your room and speakers. Water waves versus sound waves. There is no perfect boat and no perfect speaker. This is because all our rooms are different and the room is the big rock in this audiophile game. Speakers represent the last piece in the audio chain. Their sound represents everything in your audio chain especially the room, before it reaches your ears. Every piece will have an effect on what is heard. This IMO is why it is so important to have a good source. The last few years my speakers have remained intact and I have concentrated on improving the source components. Each time I improved the source my main speakers improved as well. This tells me they are not a bottleneck and I have not yet reached their limits.
Dynaudio Acoustics BM12s - Two of these in my Quad Room B .
Two of these in Room B - 18hz - 60 hz.
4th order Linkwitz- Riley crossovers have a really steep slope past 60 hz.
On paper this made them look like a really good match for the Quad 57's; but how does such a small box make 18 hz. They have class a/b amps are 4 ohms.
I brought them home and demoed them. Very Punchy, Clean and they go really low. A great match with the raised Wayne Picquet Quad 57's. They are placed under the speakers - see pic in my virtual system.
Quad 57 Wayne Picquet rebuild with Music Reference RM10 AMP
Quad ESL-57 - Wayne Picquet Panels Partnered with the amp that was designed for them - Music Reference RM10 by Roger Modjeski.
With certain music magic for me.
8/20/2012 These Quad 57 speakers were designed and put out before I was born. The parts inside which I have replaced like the EHT modules were stamped 1971. Fourteen years after they originally came out. The panels themselves are only a few years old. They were rebuilt by Wayne Piquet in Florida. The normal music presentation for stock Quad 57s is as if listening to music from the first row of a balcony. If using stock feet a 2 or 4 x 4 piece of wood or brick under the rear leg angling the speaker downwards toward you actually raises this image. This may be a more realistic presentation in your room.
Check out my review. http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/frr.pl?rspkr&1309018315&&&/Quad-57-
801 Active Monitors - Currently Stored
Currently Stored - "Winnie the Pooh" of speakers. Relationship Destroyer. Owned since 1994. Serious Sound Pressure Speaker can re-create an event in your room when positioned and driven properly. Mothers milk bass. During my time with them have used Solid State and Tube amps (Push Pull and OTL's). In comparison to the DM70 Electrostatic, If the 801 and DM70 were cowboys. The 801s are wearing black hats and the DM70 white ones.
801 Matrix S2 and S3 - Designed by John Bowers to be Active Monitors with use of the BAF and become a sixth-order Butterworth alignment. Without the high pass filter they are a vented fourth-order design, specifically in a Bessel alignment. "Fourth-order" is an engineering term that refers to all vented and passive-radiator speakers; sealed boxes are "second order."
From Stereophile (re: S2) "Higher in frequency, the response trend (averaged across a 30 degrees lateral window on the tweeter axis) is basically flat, but with a slight excess of energy in the presence region and a corresponding lack of energy in the top octave. All things being equal, this will make the speaker both a little too revealing of recorded detail and somewhat fussy when it comes to the quality of source and amplification components, just as LL noted in his auditioning comments."
Some of the changes. S3 used a different crossover than s2 - less component count. Better isolated mid and hf boards. Bass inductors with an iron dust core . Rotating midrange tweeter head assembly was permanently connected. (from 3 to 4 pin delivering separate ground signals to midrange and tweeter) Magnetic fluid cooling of the tweeter (like the 800 matrix) - the reason the apoc protection eliminated (circuits needed for this were also removed)
In nearfield very revealing of room setup, system components - SS and Tube, cabling, TT drive systems, poorly recorded music. They reveal all the flaws of the recording.
Depending on your audio hobby objectives this can be a good thing or a bad thing...
See picture of the Bass Alignment Filter.
B&W Electrostatic DM70 John Bowers / JansZen Hybrid
B&W DM70 Electrostatic Continental Hybrid Speaker Clockwork Orange Movie The late John Bowers (RIP) favorite speakers. JansZen ESL - 500hz and up. B&W Woofer - 500hz and down. Require a large room - elevated to ear level and a good distance from the front wall. Very refined midrange - muscular bass. Non-directional with a large sweetspot.
n]Designed in 1970. No cost or time constraints during the development. From what I can make out they were discontinued due to costs involved. Version One - Power handling 25 watts at all frequencies. Version Two - The later DM70 Improved, which looked identical, is suitable for amplifiers of 25-100w, but seems otherwise identical.
500hz crossover - ESL panel can not be overdriven and is nondirectional.
ESL Panel was provided by JansZen. Sensitivity is 17 watts into nominal impedance required to produce a sound level of 95 dB. at one metre at 400 Hz Double fuse protection C and CA versions.
Modded Acoustat Model 3 - Used In Shared Space Upstairs
Finally hooked up the Model 3's to the OTL's in a temporary fashion.
These are in our living area shared space Custom modded Model 3;s. They have rebuilt interfaces. Unique granite bases with integrated spikes that weigh 80 lbs. Burl Oak Veneer facing and the inside is filled with small sand bags.
Technics SP10 MKII with 2nd ET2 High Pressure Manifold
March 11, 2013 Update
Next version ? will replace the current black base plinth with a more aesthetic one.
Pet Project - Has taught me a lot about resonances and vibrations. SP10MKII Version Five Solid Stainless Steel Legs have threads at both ends and are bolted into the sp10 top plate as well as the solid plinth/platform. The armpod is bolted into the plinth. The plinth is then isolated by the AT-616 Pneumatic footers. 19 lb Solid Brass Pod 1 inch Diameter Solid Stainless Steel.
Previously I had the SP10 MKII in a heavy 7 layer plinth. Birch ply + one mdf layer. This SP10MKII came from a private studio.
This is the second ET2 I own and it is a high pressure manifold
Jean Nantais Custom turntable. Includes: 100 Pounds - Veneered - Two Tonearm Plinth Lenco L75 motor and top plate rebuilt to his standards. Reference model spindle, bearing thrust plate. Bonded Metacrylate mat Bearpaw footers. IEC outlet.
************ SOME NOTABLE MEMORIES **************************
For me some notable equipment. Currently stored or sold-indicated as such.
McAlister OTL 195
OTL195 There is a review contained in my system thread. In comparisons to good Solid State Class A and Push Pull amps they were like driving a 911 but you are limited to 1st gear when pushed. Very fast and punchy. But lack the bass that push pull deliver on. Get the bass right and everything else comes into place. These amps are designed around the needs of Acoustats. My Acoustats are in the shared room upstairs. I no longer own the OTL's.
Fidelity Research FR64s
Gimbal Pivot Arm. I found excellent build quality and a nicely implemented antiskate system. I also found a low frequency resonance that accentuated the bass. A warmer sounding tonearm. It was in my second room with the second ET2 not the ET 2.5. Whenever I started a session with the FR64s it was always nice. But curiosity would always prevail and I would switch over to the ET2. It would always remain there. This happened more times than I can remember. I am not a tonearm collector so it was sold to raise funds for another project. I am in agreement with what Cartridge designer Johnathan Carr had to say about it. http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1243274438&openusid&zzJcarr&4&5#Jcarr
Modded VPI's
Thread driven TNT and a JMW 12 using rollerblock jrs. SOLD
Acoustat Spectra 33
Acoustat Spectra 33
Eminent Technology LFT 8a
Set up in midfield - soundstage at both sides of the room. So the speaker shown is the left or the right one depending on side of room you are on. Excellent Magnetic Planar Hybrid Woofer Speaker. Very natural sounding but difficult to drive.
****************AUDIOPHILE FUN + ET 2 TONEARM MODS ************** ****
From here down are some inserts from past audiophile fun.
Also contained here is important information on the ET2, 2.5 tonearms as well as some of the mods I have done to them. If any questions on any of them let me know. No Holds Barred tonearm. User needs to be mechanically inclined and be willing to read ET2 manual instructions for proper setup of this tonearm. If bought on the used market a friend that is familiar with the tonearm for proper inspection of condition is important.
Goldilocks and the Three Turntables . See Sept 20, 2019 post comment below on my virtual system for findings / details.
Belt Drive (converted to thread) VPI TNT Idler - Jean Nantais Custom 100 Lb Direct Drive - SP10MKII When compared in the same room(nearfield), with same gear, tonearm and cartridge, same time, differences are revealed. Out into rooms on their own, this is not as noticeable as our ears deal with different room acoustics. ymmv
OTL VERSUS PUSH PULL Tube Amps
In room comparison.
Thread Drive Comparisons
2010 testing out different threads. Fabricland became a favorite place of mine.
ET 2 Tonearm Proper Bass Management - ATB
According to Bruce
My ears agree
ET 2.0 Manifold Before and After Cleaning
Pictures courtesty of a friend.
ET2 VTA Block Destroyed
Thigpen Genius showing VTA Block rack of teeth and worm gear. This one was abused. If you are buying a used one ensure the rack of teeth seen in the pic are uniform with no wear and baldspots. This is an indicator that the VTA block was misused and rigidly tightened stripping the teeth. The bolt was tightened to a point that shattered the CF.
ET 2.0 2.5 Tonearm VTA Block Torquing Procedure
VTA Block - Ensure each of the four bolts is torqued equally or the patented VTA system will be off. This procedures takes just minutes and should be done off table or you will throw your alignment off. Once bolts are torqued the manifold housing can be mounted to the pillar post and the rest of the setup completed.
ET 2.0, 2.5 Tonearm Magnesium versus Aluminum Armtubes
Mag - MC Cartridges Aluminum - MM Catridges The middle ground is the Carbon Fibre arm tube. MM and MC.
ET 2.0, 2.5 Custom Aluminum Joint - aka GOOSENECK
Black one is the stock one. Sourced from Richard Krebs
ET Tonearm Counterweight Bolt Mod
Get a longer counterweight bolt especially if you like to use heavier cartridges. The stock ET2 bolt is on the right. The longer bolt weighs a bit more, holds more lead weights and allows you to use less lead further out on the I Beam. This provides for the highest vertical mass which is really important with the ET2 as it has medium to high horizontal mass. a 4 - 1 horizontal to vertical ratio. In my system higher vertical mass means cleaner, less resonant, overall better bass. The brass rings are meant for balancing only. I prefer to use Blue Tack for this purpose.
Et2 Leaf Spring Mods Single, Double, Triple
General Cartridge Guideline
Single Leaf Spring - High compliance
Double - Medium Compliance
Triple - Low compliance
ET2 Pedestal Custom 3
Solid Brass Arm Pod
Koaltar Tweak
my pal 6 months, 79 lbs.
Kitty Tweak Bengal
a real sweetheart
RCA Victor Dog
I introduce Lucky. He is a mixed breed Jack Russell/Chihuahua mix breed. He will be acting as the Victor RCA dog,
The original Victor RCA dog.
He was named Nipper and was born in 1884 in Bristol, England, and died in September 1895. He was a mixed-breed dog and probably part Jack Russell Terrier, although some sources suggest that he was a Smooth Fox Terrier, or "part Bull Terrier". He was named Nipper because he would bite the backs of visitors' legs.
Chris, I guess you are quite busy. You're moving into the new house you showed me the picture of a month or two back. Good for you, I hope it brings all good things to you.
Hi Jond and Dan.. sorry for not seeing the posts. I am in the middle of a house transition. It has not been going as smoothly as we would like. 8^0 . Moving 7000 records doesn't help.
Jond thanks for the comments. To answer your question, yes those speakers were anchors in three different rooms. The DM70's, Matrix 800's and the Quads with two Dynaudio subs ( the subs set up in nearfield) did at one time all go through the same room; which showed me that it really is all about the Room. So we are all working with different rooms, different gear, different preferences. Explains the diverse set of opinions on forums? JMO
Chris, seeing Jond's post, made have to stop and take a look at your system again, I really enjoyed seeing all the different aspects of your system, and I imagine you sitting and enjoying every different aspect at different times. You can't get too bored with your system, so enjoy!
@ct0517 What an amazing system and also a great learning experience! I loved reading about your various shootouts and also some of your classic gear. I've seen the Matrix 800s before of course but the DM70 is a new one on me how cool! Are you running those, the 800s, and Quads all currently in different systems?
Likewise on a wonderful room and lots of acquired - respected gear.
Like all audiophile journeys, the Goldilocks and the Three Turntables adventure was personal, unique, and rewarding as I was able to form an opinion. Keep everything the same except for the drive type, including same tonearm, cartridge and wiring.
As you know, once you are able to form an opinion, it becomes obvious to you from the forum chatter, where we come for sharing of ideas and stress relief 8^0 .....whether other folks are speaking from real experience. In this case it has been evident to me, that very few have gone down this particular rabbit hole.
Thank you for contributing to my post on the different turntable drive types. A very interesting journey you went on in your quest for vinyl truth. Great system with so many toys, I'm sure it sounds magnificent!
In trouble shooting with Rob at ER Audio he indicated to me that the 800m ohm resistors "three of them" in series, function to drain voltage from the panel when the listening session ends. They could be keeping the panel from charging fully. He doesn't use this drain resistors "design" in the ESL speakers that his company makes.
I discovered through research that carbon resistors which these are, tend to go up in values as they age. My multimeter for testing resistors only goes up to 40m ohm, So I ordered a Megaohm meter from Amazon for $60 and tested the resistors. They were way out. I was getting 1200m ohm readings. Well above the 800m ohm they should be at. As these resistors are daisy chained, Rob suggested I cut one of the resistor legs - taking them out of the circuit. I did this. in the picture I cut the leg the arrow is pointing to.
Sure enough that speakers ESL Panel output now equals the other ones consistently. Have been listening to them all week. So far so good.
The rebuild kit parts will still be installed. I am just enjoying the speakers right now. The nice thing about these speakers is that the massive 13 inch woofer means no subs are needed. There is significant DB levels in the 40-50 hz range. Their presentation using a number of different amps is quite interesting and different. Some amps produce a looser, flabbier bass. Others tight and shorter noted bass.
The nice thing is that with all the amps tried, voice and higher frequencies are consistently the same, with small variances only.
Through the last week of listening I noticed one of the ESL Panels goes lower in DB level - throwing the imaging off. Voices shift to the stronger Panel on the right side. Switching the Panels fixes the problem temporarily.
Eventually the left cabinet goes weak again. This tells me the ESL power supply in that cabinet is off.
After troubleshooting with ER Audio Australia, I ordered the EHT Board parts kit (Diodes and Capacitators) from them.
In the attached picture the part circled in yellow is the EHT board that feeds the ESL panel.
"This sounds cruel, but maybe you ought to have your cat de-clawed maybe?"
Dan - we acquired our now 5 year old F3 Savannah named Katya at 4 years of age. Her previous owner named her Katya - (Russian name meaning Pure). Aside from the obvious cruelty you mention involved in declawing - when a person declaws a cat, IMO, they pretty much eliminate any chance for the animal to defend itself, if they should get out, and find herself lost, trying to get back home.
So what I accept is, a Speaker, is a Speaker, is a Speaker, is a turntable, is an amp, is a preamp, is a summer car....., material things......wait a minute.... forget the last one .....8^0.
and our "Kitty" is family.
and FWIW this is my first cat. I didn't know what a Savannah cat was let alone what F3 meant before we got her. Audiogoneer Uberwaltz (Kevin) has been very helpful in educating me.
Chris, I'm assuming from your reply the ESL's are working right again, after being attended to by you, though you didn't address that specifically. Glad to hear it. This sounds cruel, but maybe you ought to have your cat de-clawed maybe?
Hi Dan - apparently these speakers were John Bowers favorite speaker. I am beginning to realize why now.
I have them positioned 5 feet in front of the Quads. It is a large space. The speakers are maybe 8 feet in front of me and the output I am getting from the ESL panels is large room filling, and it blends very nicely with the woofer cabinet. You read these days about how current ESL speakers with integrated woofers, can't mix well with their Dynamic bass woofer. Well here you go. 1971. They got it right - but the cost to build was more than their selling price, so I believe one of the reasons they were discontinued.
I have tried removing all of the cabinet stuffing and bass became very woolly. It was resonating everywhere. The cabinet is damped with this stuffing - in a big transparent bag - The bass is very tuneable, with the amount of stuffing it contains. Some people have removed the stuffing and attached rubber mats to the inside.
I repeated the procedure for the other ESL panel. Some of the previous owner restoration work was shoddy, and would not allow for good connections in spots to perform a full charge. Screws and plates were tightened and cleaned.
*********************************************
If you look at the picture link in this post. What can be seen is.
The stators hold the voltage and it alternates back and forth, and makes the Mylar vibrate producing sound. Think Hummingbird bird wings. A simple way of explaining it.
*********************************************
Our Cat is in love with the Acoustat ESL's upstairs so much so that I have them covered them and they are in the corners hidden, not being used. I am terrified to charge them up. Maybe I bring these DM70c speakers upstairs ? Speakers are my Achilles Heel I think. Get them sorted and I can't get rid of them.
*********************************************
there was a problem with one of my links in the previous post. The virtual system database doesn't have the same functionality that the general forums have for linking pics and other functions. The posts got messed up and some text deleted. Sorry for any confusion this causes anyone.
Symptoms - One of the ESL Panels was not as loud as the other.
I switched the ESL panels and the problem moved over to the other side. This told me it was a panel problem. So I took the ESL Panel off and started the process of removing the ESL panel parts.
The way an ESL works is actually very simple when you break it down. There is a membrane - mylar that has spacers on each side of it. On either side of these spacers are the stators that take the voltage and conduct electricity < > making the membrane move / vibrate. This creates the sound.
In the top link the picture on the very right shows the stator on top, then the spacer and the membrane itself which underneath it one will find the other spacer and stator.
Much to my surprise when I removed the parts I found what is in the picture on the membrane.
Debris larger than dust. Maybe from a house project entered the ESL Panel when it was charged up. The bottom picture shows my attempt to clean it. The debris on the mylar was preventing full movement. Other than that the mylar was tight and no holes or damage from what I could see.
The speakers had been repaired prior to myself owning them. I remember when I initially set them up, I experimented with external tweeters. But I had the Quad 57 project going on at the same time so didn't get too detailed with them. These speakers do not need external tweeters. The one speaker was throwing the balance off.
The bass can be tuned easily by removing or adding cabinet stuffing.
Symptoms - One of the ESL Panels was not as loud as the other.
I switched the ESL panels and the problem moved over to the other side. This told me it was a panel problem. So I took the ESL Panel off and started the process of removing the ESL panel parts.
The way an ESL works is actually very simple when you break it down. There is a membrane - mylar that has spacers on each side of it. On either side of these spacers are the stators that take the voltage and conduct electricity < > making the membrane move / vibrate. This creates the sound.
I have noticed around this time every year, with about 6 weeks of winter remaining, that I tend to get the Audiophile itch. Listening to music has helped me so far, but I need to get my hands moving.
I pulled my B&W DM70c Continental Speakers out of storage and set them up a few feet in front of the Quad 57's in Room B.
The speakers sound amazing, as I remembered and their design is timeless. But the one ESL panel output was down.
After various attempts at troubleshooting, and looking into repair solutions; weighing time and $$$, I decided to go the DIY route for repair with a DM70 Repair kit from an Australian Company ER Audio.
thought I would post about the wonderful time I have been having with my son going through albums on Tidal Hi Fi then comparing to the vinyl. You know when it has gone well ....they ask you ......so how do I turn everything on and off again ?
A memorable moment for me, was when he brought over his buddy, who upon seeing the matrix 800 room 1, wanted to know how to pair up to those speakers. 8^0... So he hooked his phone up, his music, into my system.
He was in dis belief , like most, upon first seeing the Quad 57's Room 2 and believing that they were in fact speakers. Once he heard them ...he believed.
The only music negative, was in the "inability" to run my Acoustat Model 3's on the main floor over the holiday period. I am "allowed" to stream music on the main floor as long as selections include Christmas music and Motown. The reason was due to Katya our Savannah cat now 5 years old. We have had her one year. She developed a fondness for the Acoustat cloth grills from day one. The material was one thing; but her playing on voltage charged speakers was another. So they got wrapped with a spare carpet rug (she seemed to love the plastic dust cover rustling noises ) and moved to the corners.
I have tried cat scratchers in the room.
Anyone want to provide suggestions ? please do so. I fear the ESL's have run their course in that space.
Goldilocks and the Three Turntables - rewrite 2019 - includes original text with hindsight.
1) The Room and Hearing Differences
An analogy first about sound we hear.
When you have a car you can drive it around all day and night, for weeks and it can seem ok, mechanically speaking, to you. Has one noticed what happens when you drive down an alley way at night or up/down one of those tight narrow parking ramps with the windows open ? All of a sudden you start hearing noises, if, there are any issues. It could be brake pads rubbing, it could be a wheel bearing. It may also be a belt near the engine. Unless you are driving in this type of environment any problems may not manifest themselves in a more...open area, until it gets bad - loud - enough.
Why am I talking about this? Well if you want to find out if your car is ok – drive down an alley at night with the windows open. Ok - but for this hobby? Audio Rooms are no different. Over the years I have had the exact same gear in different rooms. All different presentations and sounds. This formed my opinion for the importance of the Room. I also at one time had three rooms set up concurrently - 2010 era . One of the rooms, my dedicated one, I have had since the fraternal twins were 1 year old 1995. The room helped me to raise them.... 8^0 .....by keeping me sane. It was nicknamed Dads Hole.
The Panic Room.
Now the interesting thing about Dad's Hole is that it is longer and narrower about 13 x 24 ft, with 8 foot ceilings. Multiple speakers have been set up in many configurations over the years. Long Wall, Short Wall. Nearfield always tells the best story with music for me. Try to picture listening to Acoustat Spectra 33 in nearfield. Two big headphones.
Short Wall Set up Shooting Down the Room;
When set up on the short wall shooting down the room (like the Alley Way), I can hear things in that room better than any other room in the house. The short wall configuration became the permanent setup many years ago. So I personally believe that 1) Listening in nearfield allows you to hear more and better, before reflections occur, obscuring the sound and 2) The narrow "alley way" in the room increases the audibility of sounds - good and bad. I believe this point 2, was a contributing factor in my findings here.
2) What Method of Turntable Testing Led to my Personal Findings.
My personal findings have been through my own number of carts, tonearms and tables - in my own space. Not at shows, or dealer salons, or other folks set ups, and or reviews. In the end once my tonearm was chosen, my experiments were with putting the same two tonearms, cartridges, set up well, on different tables and hearing.... "this" ......after various modifications.
Better ----> Worse --------> Better -----> Different -------> Better --------> Different ------> Worse ---------> Better
(one should always end up with better in the end) 8^0
Showed me very clearly how much role the table itself plays. In fact based on my findings.
IMO, the better table, with a better tonearm and modest cartridge, "set up well" ...... WILL..... outperform a very expensive cart on a more modest table and tonearm. No question.
Lesson learned.
So IMO, one should in general if starting out on an Audiophile Journey; stick with modest cartridges first, and learn the table, tonearm relationship. Settle on a combo. Then go to town if you desire on different carts. I do not deny that every cartridge one puts on, changes the sound dramatically. I just think it is much easier and makes more sense to change out carts over whole turntables and tonearm setups. With that if I ever get a another cart, a London is at the top of the list - its unique and its designer, used an air bearing linear tracker for its design.
All cartridges are on a continual decline with hours played from Day One. Whereas I expect my turntable, and tonearm to outlast me. Reminds me of the shoes I use for running. Expensive, and the support only lasts about 400 miles, and then they needed changing or you are going to experience knee, hip, feet and other issues.
It should be noted that my tonearm of choice is a design that I can mount any cart on that I want. Eminent Technology ET 2.5. It can be configured to accept and be compatible with MM and MC carts.
3) Turntable Testing Method
During this same period I ran three turntables, in my dedicated room, side by side with the same tonearm and cartridge, wiring and hooked up to the same pre/phono. One turntable was my personal custom direct drive, Technics SP10 II, the other a custom belt drive eventually modded with thread - VPI TNT. Third a a 100 lb Lenco idler built by Jean Nantais. This Lenco used to be his personal reference table, and was used to develop his Reference Model. I acquired it through a friend of his in Ottawa, Ontario.
They were tested two at a time. Two ET2 tonearms, same cartridge, same wiring. All I needed to do was unplug the wires and switch tables. .
They were run against each other and also against 15 IPS master tape copies.
Against tape all I needed to do was start the tape, then the record 15 - 20 seconds later then toggle between the two, adjusting for volume as tape is a high level source.
With the same tonearm, wiring and cartridge, same gear, same room, very big differences became obvious in the music presentation between the tables...as an audiophile might expect.
The results I got, eventually helped and contributed in my decision on a final table.
4) How the tables were set up.
Three turntables were set up in a way that best supported their design.
Idler Drive - On brass cones connected to a hard surface as designed by its maker Jean Nantais. The massive specially designed plinth provides the damping and isolation.
Belt Drive - Plinth Supported by Massive Pneumatic AT-616 footers. Stock Motor isolated by Belt then modified to thread.
Direct Drive. After multiple trials, the final version Motor/Platter supported by Stainless Steel Pillars, with a Massive Brass Armpod isolating the tonearm and cartridge from the motor. Minimal plinth design.
5) Direct Findings
Idler
The Lenco idler has a "Formula One Motor " (quote by A. Salvatore)
with
a "drive system wheel and rod that is very Flintstone like and feels disconnected" (quote CT0517).
So a very slick Swiss Built motor but its power is transmitted through an archaic drive "IMO" mechanism. wheel with rod and is subject to vibrations and noise.
They are a lot of fun and remind me of big American iron cars from the 70's. Great in a straight line, Hit that first curve however, and you realize their Achilles Heel is bad brakes. In the stock speed setting for 33 1/3 mine runs a bit fast.
From an audiophile perspective most noticeable on Classical music with big dynamic swings, meaning big groove modulations, followed by small ones; they can't slow down fast enough and generate in the music produced, that phenomena, music feeling, that I read people describe as "PRAT".
They are noisier compared to the other drive types and will generate feedback with the wrong cartridge due to lack of motor isolation. This is one of the reasons a massive plinth is required to dampen the vibrations.
Still ......for a brief period when first introduced in my room, became the standard to shoot for. Proving that even though the design suggests less than optimum results - a tweaked out Idler can be your final table. Again my Jean Nantais Lenco relies on the massive plinth for damping. It's 100 lbs and there are huge cavities/spaces under each tonearm armboard and the platter.... for isolation !
The best at speed control if that is your objective, their Achilles heel being they try too hard IMO to maintain the correct speed. The constant back and forth of the motor speed controller setup, results in the driest of sounds between the three, and sounding the most like digital. So the SP10MKII sounds like it is just trying too hard to be accurate. I think it needs a little LESS CORRECTION, and still be able to maintain Speed Stability to make it better. It's a balance. And I believe that the SP10 series which was very popular in radio stations, was geared toward robustness and speed stability.
For a hobby that is flawed with an imperfect source, the record, and the vibrations and noise inherent induced in playback, the isolated motor belt drive seems a practical design. Its Achilles Heel, IMO the opposite of the Idler Drive, in that it sounds the most to me like, it is "Riding the Brakes" compared to the others ; is affected most by stylus drag and record irregularities. With that however, if a motor controller, platter design and drive belt is used that minimizes stylus drag and record irregularities, it has great potential and can overcome the "Riding of the Brake" , and can sound IMO the most like real Music flowing.
In the end, for me, my tweaked out TNT with string drive ended up edging out - trumping - the Idler and Direct Drive in my room, and resulted in enough "pros", that convinced me to look for a string drive designed table as my last table.
All three turntables were great in their own way and IMO can be ones final table, especially if this is really about the music, and not the gear itself. For myself, I was in the Audiophilia Nervosa phase back in those years, and it was not until the Verdier was introduced into my room; a WOW moment for me from the first album, and the period in time when I realized the turntable search was over for myself. I had reached the end of the road with this marvel. Even though it is a design that begs the Audiophile for tweaking as all its parts are exposed, and easy to access. My desire for more experimentation was satisfied. The satisfied feeling still exists today, but I do enjoy working with others in their audio journey.
If you are still out there... Would you be willing to send me any info about what you discovered?"
Best,
Patrick
Hi Patrick - thx for your post.
Much was lost or made difficult to find under the virtual systems here when Audiogon went to their new format couple years back. The virtual system were not priority. For example - Picture links to one's virtual system information from the general forums is no longer possible now. google link attached
The storyline picture behind Goldilocks and the Three Turntables is now under picture 8 in my virtual system above. I have had other requests in the past along with yours. I can recreate my turntable journey and reason for final table selection here in my next post. It will be based on the following parts from previous information and current thoughts - hindsight.
1) The Room and Hearing Differences
2) What method of Turntable testing led to my Personal Findings.
3) Turntable Design Differences
4) How the tables were setup.
5) Direct Findings - The results I got, Helping me in my final table selection.
Been searching... Came across the post quoted below from 2017. Searching for the terms you reference regarding your personal tests comes up with nothing other than the short thread where I found the below... It seems to have vanished from the internets.
If you are still out there... Would you be willing to send me any info about what you discovered?
Best, Patrick
--ct0517's avatar --ct05171,839 posts --02-28-2017 5:51pm --fjn04 --Some years ago 2010 ?, I ran three turntables, in the same room, side by side with the same tonearm and cartridge, hooked up --to the same pre/phono. It was a lot of fun. One was a custom direct drive, a custom belt drive modded with thread, and a 100 lb --Lenco idler.
--They were tested two at a time so two tonearms/carts. All I needed to do was switch wires going into the preamp, to change -----tables. They were run against each other and also against 15 IPS master tape copies. Against tape all I needed to do was start ---the tape, then the record, and toggle between the two,
--Very big differences between the tables as one might expect. The results I got helped me in purchasing my final table.
--If interested, my findings and results are found easily here at AudioGon by typing "Goldilocks and the three turntables", in the -----top forum search field. --See also pic 19 of 42 on my virtual system page.
Added a picture of Katya, new to us (Savannah cat), pictured with my Acoustat ESL Model 3 speakers. See last picture in virtual system. The Acoustat have been resurrected in the same room that is now currently being used as an Exercise room. We got Katya late fall 2018. Should I be worried about the ESL cloth grills ?
My Music Reference RM9 went down on me - a bad power tube - so I have been forced to buy 8 KT88's -- OUCH. Not good with the current Canadian American dollar Exchange.
Waiting for their arrival so I can insert that RM9 amp with the Acoustat first, to try them out. This should be the last re-tube for that amp.
***********************
Internet Streaming
Have been enjoying - Venice Classic Radio from Italy
https://www.veniceclassicradio.eu/
Sound quality decent, Selections, Variety, No commercials
The Italian feed shows you a picture of the album with full details.
A visual is good, because if I like what I am hearing, it allows me to go look and see if I have that album for playing in my room; as I attempt ....8^(..... to get through the LP collection.
Multiple Point - Ground Syndrome Zombies. (aka as Ground Hum)
We have all had them. So what to do ?
First what are these Zombies?
When two or more devices (preamp, cd, dac, tape, etc.. ) are connected to a common ground through different paths, ground path noise, or a ground loop can occur.
Recent discussions about ground hum with a friend in an established system that was quiet before (for a long time), prompted this post. I hope it helps anyone reading since ground hum is like a cancer in this audio hobby.
These Zombies can surface with two devices connected to the same outlet and multiple outlets. When looking at multiple outlets, if the ground points are measured the voltages between them is never exactly the same, even with dedicated circuits. These variances can when grabbed by the audio signal produce the ground hum. If ....the hum is not coming from the device itself. Everyone should measure the voltage from different outlets in a room.
A Personal Example.
In my Room A things were quiet for a long time. When I added the ARC DAC years ago and plugged it into a dedicated outlet, same one used by the ARC preamp; I got a terrible ground hum. There are three dedicated lines in that room. It didn't matter. Same hum result. WTH I thought to myself. If I lifted the DAC ground with a cheater plug - the hum disappeared. But you can't run this way as it is dangerous.
I then decided to use the 3 prong power outlet on the back of the power supply for my ARC preamp. Bingo. Hum disappeared.
IMO
This audio business, audio manufacturers went backwards when they removed power inputs from the back of preamp power supplies and forced people to use separate multiple outlets, creating multiple ground points for their input devices. They released the ground point Zombies.
Who knows how some of these room's electrical connections are laid out especially if they are not dedicated outlets. The multiple power inputs for devices on back of preamps assured a common single path ground was used.
