milpai's system

by milpai on Clear DayTvcQuadParasoundCullen CablesGikBrickwallHerbie's AudioOppoPuresonicAurisbluMeProAcUDP-205D48RBackert LabsRhumba 1.3Cardas ParsecInakustikFurutechIsoAcousticsGaiaReferenzLS-2404 AIRAsusUSBStreamingNF-2404 AIRISO-puck miniAudioQuest Fog Lifters
From listening position
Back of room, listening position
ProAc Profile
MTM Configuration
Ribbon Tweeter
Parasound A21
Rhumba 1.3
T+A DAC 200
Audio Server
Control Center
Inakustik AC-3500P ON (blue)
Inakustik AC-3500P OFF (white)
Inakustik AC-3500P back
Power cable management
Bi-wire config
AIR Referenz
Matches the loudspeakers
Inakustik NF-2404 Air
USB cable
Cable Management
Inakustik 2502F power cord
Furutech connectors
Ceiling treatment
Puron filter
Gaia II
Gaia II closeup
AQ FogLifters

Description

December 2024
Replaced the Oppo UDP-205 with the T+A DAC 200

April 2024
Moved the GIK Monster Bass traps from back wall to front of the room to control bass. This tightened the bass as well as opened up the mid-range and treble notes. Did not realize that the change would be so profound. Should have done this years ago.

Feb-2024
Added another Puron filter

Jan-2024
Added a Puron filter

Oct-2022
Added the Mazda 1960s grey plates 12AU7 to the Rhumba. They opened my eyes (and ears) as to why people are ready to pay so much for NOS tubes.

Aug-2022
Added Isoacoustic mini-pucks beneath the Inakustik and audio server.
Added a custom built audio server to replace the aging Asus laptop. I did not realize how much profound effect a dedicated server has on the quality of the sound.

Oct-2021
Added the ISO-puck mini under the Backert Labs Rhumba 1.3 and Oppo UDP-205.
Added Isoacoustic Carpet spikes for Gaia II.

Aug-2021
Added the AudioQuest Foglifters. Initially added for "looks" and cable dressing. But found that it adds finesse and delicacy to instruments in the music. My guess is the contact area of the cable from the original wooden raisers has reduced more than 90% and that might be the reason. I am happy.

July-2021
Added the GIK 242 ceiling panel that balanced the sound from the left speaker, that was getting missed due to the unavoidable soffit in the room. So much to learn from your own experience.

Dec-2020
Purchased the Fidelizer PRO. This has immensely changed the listening experience. Folks using a Windows machine should certainly give a shot to the free version. You have nothing to loose except 5 minutes. The best part of free version is it is an exe files that you run and not install. So if you don't like it, just delete the .exe.

Oct-2020
Upgraded Asus K52 with a Asus S400CA, 8GB RAM and 1TB SSD. Again, this is an older laptop repurposed for audio. Also added a NAS server and all audio files are on that server. Connection to this server is via ethernet and not wifi. Evaluating the free version of Fidelizer which makes very audible, positive change in my system.

Jul-2020
Repurposed an old laptop for streaming Spotify/Qobuz and also digital files. The laptop was upgraded from 3GB to 8GB RAM and from 250GB HDD to 1TB SSD for DSD and FLAC files. Installed Foobar2000 with Eole skin on the laptop to play the digital files. Using an old iPad mini 2 tablet with MonkeyMote to control this laptop remotely. Love this app!
Installed the Inakustik Reference High Speed USB between the laptop and Oppo 205, which is now used as a DAC.

Jun-2020
Added Inakustik NF-2404 XLRs between Oppo-Backert and Backert-Parasound.
Will try to find some time to do a mini review of these cables, if I find time. These cables pull you into the music way too much.

Mar-2020
Added Inakustik LS-2404 AIR biwire loudspeaker cables

Nov-2019
Added the IsoAcoustics Gaia II footers to the ProAcs

Jun-2019
Added the Inakustik AC-3500p power conditioner in the system.

Nov-2018
Replaced the Promitheus Reference C-core TVC with Backert Labs Rhumba 1.3 preamplifier

Jan-2018
Replaced the Quad 21L with the ProAc D48R in Ebony.

October-2017
Replaced the Teac CD-1000 SACD player with Oppo UDP-205 universal disc player.

September-2015
Replaced the Marantz SACD player with Teac CD-1000.

May-2015
New room finished in April. Room is 19 X 15 X 8. Three walls were already in place (concrete). Had the 4th wall built with double drywalls inside/outside and using GreenGlue. 2 dedicated 10gauge 20 amp lines for amps and electronics. Speakers are 4 feet from back wall and 3 feet from side wall. Placement of speakers, chair, panels etc are within 1/8th inch tolerance. Replaced Signal Cable power cables with Cullen Cables Crossover Series power cords, because I needed longer and flexible cables.

Feb-2015
Replaced Signal Cable Silver Resolution RCAs between Marantz and TVC with Clear Day's RCA cables.

Sep-2014
Replaced Signal Cable Silver Resolution XLR between TVC and amp with Clear Day's XLR cables.

Aug-2014
Replaced the Signal Cable Silver Resolution bi-wires with Clear Day Double Shotguns and jumpers between HF and LF speaker terminals.

04-Dec-2013:
Replaced original wooden footers under TVCs with Ebony footers. Simply unbelievable - what they did.

February 2012 - September 2012:
Been exited to have a dedicated room for this "passion". This word was emphasized by a female family friend. She was amazed by how passionately I could go on and on about this hobby. She likes classical music. Soon after we moved into our first home, I did post some questions on this forum about french doors. Those are in place now and I am happy with their looks. Per my wife (touch wood), I need to place something on the door panels for preventing reflections and maintaining privacy. Her support for me in this hobby has been outstanding and I would not have reached this far, if not for her. So, that treatment on the door will come sometimes later this year. This is a small room with 13.5'X12.5'X9' dimensions. I painted this room myself (first time, never did this before). The speakers are placed along the shorter wall. They are 40" from front wall and about 30" from side walls. They are about 7' apart with some toe-in. I sit slightly more than 7' away. All measurements are within 1/10" error. Finding the optimum position for speaker took me about 24 to 30 man hours. Though this is painful, the outcome of this exercise is mind-boggling. Got some granite to go between the floor and speakers. These are 18"X18"X1.5". This has tightened the bass and has provided necessary isolation from the wooden floor below. At the same time, added Herbie Audio Lab's Extra Thick Hush Puckies under the speaker spikes and the granite. This causes the speaker to not "ring" and provides stability to the speakers, because of the dBNeutralizer base. Since this is my own space, I added some treatments from GIK. Bryan Pape at GIK was very helpful and actually told me to go easy on the treatments. We started with 2 Tri-traps on the corners and 2 Monster Panels on the back wall directly behind the listening position. I liked the way the bass tightened up. Bryan suggested the 244 instead of 242s on the first reflection panels to take care of any phase issues as well. And that has turned pretty nice. Also got the terminations on the speaker wires changed from spades to BFA bananas. I am totally sold on the BFAs. Superb contact and fit. Some of you advised me to move the equipments from between the speakers. Though I could not do it 100%, what I did was, to disassemble the rack and use the shelfs on the floor directly. But the resulting change in the sound staging is simply fantastic. I never imagined that a rack placed between 2 speakers can mess the soundstage. With all this in place I did miss some "meat" in my system. But I thought it was the size of the room that was causing the nulls and there was probably nothing I could do. What finally brought "life" in my system was the new XLRs between the preamp (TVC) and the amp. The move from RCA to XLR in my system was nothing short of drastic. I have mentioned this on this site as well as a forum dedicated to Parasound Halo products. Apparently, there was not enough gain in my system and so the "meat" was missing on the bones, if you will. This was not so obvious in the previous apartment room, since it was small and the speakers used to be closer to the walls. In the near future, I would like to add 3 242 GIK panels on the front wall, behind the speakers. Will first experiment with the existing Monster Panels on the front wall.


March 2010:
The Parasound amp has changed my system profoundly. I cannot believe the transparency and expansiveness it has brought into my system. And it seems a very good match for my TVC as I set the TVC volume to lower levels than my previous amp.

April 2009: Added the Promitheus TVC, which took my system to an altogether different level. I did not imagine of such a performance from my system. Looking for a good power amp now. Want a power amp with high sensitivity and power - to match the TVC and also in case I upgrade my speakers at a later time.

August-2005
It took many listening sessions, forums, mags, etc to build this starter system. Was worth every minute spent for building it. Started with recommended components list - but ended with what my ears liked.
Read more...

Room Details

Dimensions: 19’ × 15’  Medium
Ceiling: 8’

Components Toggle details

    • ProAc Response D48R Loudspeakers
    Ebony with Ribbon tweeter.
    • Parasound A21
    250 watts RMS x 2, 20 Hz - 20 kHz,8Ω, Class AB Sensitivity: 1 V for 28.28 V
    • Backert Labs Rhumba 1.3
    Tube preamplifier with 2 X 12AU7 tubes
    • T+A DAC 200
    True 1-bit converter - processes DSD files in their native form
    Uses 4 32-bit Burr-Brown converters per channel for PCM processing
    • Custom build Audio Server Audio Server
    Custom built audio server for streaming FLAC/DSD files and also other streaming services. Based on Streacom FC10 Alpha chassis. Running HQ Player for converting files to DSD 512
    • Signalyst HQ Player
    High quality file processor/player for converting FLAC files to 512 DSD
    • Inakustik Reference Power Station AC-3500P
    Power Conditioner
    • Inakustik LS-2404 Air
    Bi-wire speaker cables
    • Inakustik NF-2404 Air
    XLR Cables
    • Inakustik Reference High Speed USB
    USB cable
    • Inakustik 2502F
    Power Cord
    • Furutech FI-28(R)/FI-32(R)
    • Cullen Cables Crossover Series 10 AWG
    Amplifier Power Cord
    • Cullen Cables Crossover Series 12 AWG
    SACD player power cord
    • IsoAcoustics Gaia II
    Isolation footers for loudspeakers
    • IsoAcoustics Gaia II Carpet Spikes
    Carpet Spikes for the Gaia II
    • IsoAcoustics ISO-puck mini
    Footers under the preamp and DAC
    • AudioQuest Fog Lifters
    Cable dressers and system enhancers.
    • World Market Kendall Chair
    Very comfortable chair. Suede. No support directly behind the head which means sound is not distorted. I was searching for something like this for quite some time. I looked at some LC2 and LC3 knock-offs. But they were all leather that could reflect sound. Chocolate color which also matches the GIK panels.
    • GIK Acoustics Tri-Trap
    For front corners behind the speakers, in coffee color.
    • GIK Acoustics Monster Bass Trap
    Mounted on the wall behind listening seat.
    • GIK Acoustics 244 Bass Trap
    Absorption panel in Coffee color, mounted at first reflection points, that also takes care of phase related issues. Plan to get 2 more to go in the center of the room behind the speakers.
    • GIK Acoustics 242 broadband panel
    2' X 2' absorption panel
    • Porterhouse Audio Porter Ports
    • Puron
    Power filter
    • Apple iPad Gen 9
    iPad 9th generation for controlling Foobar2000 using MonkeyMote, Spotify and Oppo UDP-205 remote.

Comments 308

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Owner
Pinpoint imaging - something that I was searching for! After much experimenting, found the optimal seating distance that gives me this image. The speakers are 7' apart. I have to seat myself 8' away. This not only gives me pinpoint imaging, but also makes the speaker disappear (kind of). This puts very close to the back wall. The speaker toe-in is such that the tweeter axis cross slightly behind my back.
Speaker placement and seat positioning can make a HUGE difference. I don't recollect reading about any other pair of Quad 21L speakers anywhere on this forum or others that have been optimized, both in terms of rom treatment and electronics. These are holographic speakers. Listening to "Don's Solo" from Joni Mitchell - Shadows and Light, and the drums are so real. Never before experienced such realism!!!

milpai

Hey, Milpai! Nice system. I like the simplicity of your room; it looks really nice! I also just moved to a place where I have a dedicated listening room and the dimensions are almost identical to yours so I might play around with speaker placement based on where you have yours :-) I actually realized today that my speakers are 22" inches from both the side and back walls, which I understand isn't good. I don't really want to go nearfield and my speakers have a front port and don't seem to be hugely affected by placing them closer to the back wall than I usually do. I am at a point where my next upgrades will be a set of diamond back xlr's from my amp to pre amp, two more upgraded power cords and some gik panels. I love what I have heard about gik's customer service and it was nice to hear about the improvement you noticed with xlr's! It's funny that you were talking also about your equipment rack having an effect on imaging as well. I just noticed this myself just this week and started a thread about it. Anyways, once I get my panels in a few months, I'll post some pics too.

b_limo

Owner
System edited: Added/Replaced pics of system and components.

milpai

Actually I read a white paper by Dr. Flyod Toole on room acoustics where in one of the conclusions was that the center of the wall behind the speakers and the center of the wall behind the listener are points in the room (specifically small rooms) which need to be treated for greatest acoustic benefit. So I just placed the panel in the ctr. of the wall behind the speakers. As such I would have to treat the center of the whole wall from floor to ceiling, but in my current setup I cannot do that.
Yes, I used to post on hifi-forum and hifivision. I am now based in India. Agreed Symphonic Line makes some great equipment.

sidvee

Owner
Kiwi,
Thank You for the encouragement. Yes, I love this hobby or "passion" as a friend put it for me. I feel this is a good "addiction". And yes, I have read your blog about room setup and the stuff that you went through to get to where you are today. You have a great setup.

Sidvee,
Thanks for letting me know. Yes, I plan to experiment with the monster panels on the front wall. How did you decide on the location of the panels? Is it again the first reflection points on the front wall? BTW, are you the same Sidvee from http://www.hifi-forum.de. If yes, then I have read your threads from that forum and others. Are you still located in Detroit? I like that Symphonic amp. I have heard great stuff about Symphonic.

milpai

I had better discernible results with the 2 echobuster panels on the wall behind the speakers rather than the cable risers. The soundstage gained greater coherence and definition with the panels in place. Also helped in soundstage depth perception. My next step will be to place GIK 4" panels in the same spot to see if it further helps, especially in the bass frequencies, as the 244 panels are advertised as having better broadband absorption.

sidvee

Congratulations Milpai. I remember the excitement of my first audio room too - and I am here to share with you that this excitement never goes away. You will find that there is much more that can be done with the room and each step carefully implemented unlocks greater musical insights, which is really what this hobby is all about.

kiwi_1282001

Owner
Thanks Sidvee.
I would like to get those cable raisers - for getting the cables off the floor and for aesthetic purpose. Did those positively affect your system? What about the panels between the speakers? Did it tighten the sound stage? I like the area rug that you have. That will come sometimes next year. I have one with me, but it is too light for the setup and so, I did not put it in there.

milpai

Awesome minimalist setup Milpai!

sidvee

Owner
System edited: Added latest pics and description of my new room and tweaks. Many changes in place, thanks to forum member's suggestions and advises.

milpai

Owner
Kevinzoe,
Thank You. Yes, the room treatments were at the back of my mind for couple of years now. But I was living in a apartment and wanted to wait till we moved into a home. That has finally happened. I have already ordered my panels from GIK. They should be here in a week or so.

Also, thanks for the references you have provided. You make some good points on the panels -especially having space behind them to be effective. Everything I read on the net points in this direction and that is 1 reason I went with GIK. Cost was also a big factor to go with GIK. I will experiment with the positions you mentioned, once the panels arrive.

Some clarifications - Bryan from GIK was very helpful. In fact he would not suggest me any panels without first taking a look at my room and knowing it's dimensions. So I sent the pics and measurements. Then I mentioned to him that I wanted some absorption panels on the first reflection points, corner traps (top to bottom, so 4 panels) and bass panels on the back. It was then he explained me how my room would be affecting the sound and why. He mentioned that my carpet acts as an absorption panel for high and mids, but not for the bass. So he suggested 2 corner traps instead of 4 and 2 monster traps at the back directly behind the listening position. He suggested I should experiment with the bass panels on the first absorption point and decide if I really need absorption. He mentioned that if anything is needed, we can discuss and find if reflection or diffusion is needed. I liked the way he did not push his products on me.

Yes, my room is small. But the bass is not bad, as I had read on the net. I guess it is the 9 foot ceiling that is making the difference. I have the speakers 4 feet into the room and the setup is optimized for near-field listening. I have spent about 5 hours experimenting with the speaker positioning and have found the best spot for these speakers in this room. I have never had these speakers image this great. And this is even without the granite slab and spikes that I will soon install. The speakers are on bare carpet. Well, each room is different.

I am not a DIY guy. But thanks for the suggestion. If I get interested some day, I can refer to your suggestion. Your setup is awesome!! All the DIY stuff you have done shows how dedicated an audiophile you are. I can only envy you. I noticed that you are also setup for near-field listening. I do not like parametric eq in my chain. It might just be psychological, but I don't want that. I am pretty happy with the bass from my setup and I am hoping that the GIK panels will tighten it up.

I am seriously thinking of setting the components on the floor, using the wood panels from the stand, after disassembling it. That should improve the image and I can take the speakers closer to the wall behind them, by a foot.

Next thing to focus is on a new chair without the high back. I understand that this improves the image further, since there are no reflections from the high back. The Ikea chair that I use is good. But there is better and best out there.

milpai

Hi Milpai,
I was reading your "GIK vs Acoustimac" thread and several things struck me, so as a GIK customer and someone who's invested a lot of time & $$$ into room acoustics, may I share some thoughts with you?

(A) Firstly, congrats on investing in acoustical room treatments (regardless of which manufacturer you went with)! You will likley be pleasantly surprised at how much of an improvement they add to your listening pleasure as most domestic rooms are God awful listening environments due to flutter echos, uneven bass response, and too long or short reverb times.

(B) I would hightly recommend some education around the physics of small room acoustics. Read Dr. Floyd Toole's book "Sound Reproduction: The Acoustics and Psychoacoustics of Loudspeakers and Rooms" and F. Alton Everest & Ken C. Pohlmann's "Master Handbook of Acoustics."

(C) To make the best use of your acoustical treatments you will need to get an acoustical measurement tool. The most basic "rocks & sticks" approach is a Radio Shack SLP meter and download some test frequency response files for playback. I really like the easy to use Dayton Audio OmniMic, and another good one is the XTZ tool. These are around $300 but well worth the investment as you will use them time and again as the positioning of acoustical treatments is an itterative excercise. You will need to "shoot the room" to know what the 'Frequency VS SPL' and Reverb Times are BEFORE you place the acoustical treatments in the room to compare them to your baseline measurement.

(D) The GIK stuff is good and with enough you will hear differences. I was surprised to know that you really won't get much effect from 1 or 2 bass traps - you need several of them to make a difference, usually. I found GIK doesn't really educate you on how best to place their products in your room. It is critical to have an air space behind your bass traps so that they extend to deeper frequencies and not just upper bass / lower midrange frequencies. So for example their website shows Tri-Traps fit snuggly into the room corner to take advantage of their triangular shape, however this doesn't provide any air space, unless you pull the trap out from the corner walls. Try rotating the Tri-Traps 180degrees so the 'front' of the trap is facing into the corner. Or better yet, place to Tri-Traps together to form a rectangle and have a 6"-8" air space, and then stack another pair on top to extend from floor to ceiling - now that's a bass trap! Unfortunately, resistive-type bass traps filled with fiberglass need to be very thick with largish air spaces. If your room won't accommodate this then try leaving the door open to allow the bass to escape or get the diaphragmatic-type bass traps from RPG which hang right on your wall with much smaller foot print.

(E) Remember that acoustical treatment are (i)reflection, (ii)absorption, and (iii)diffusion. Don't overdose on absorption without considering reflection and diffusion.

(F) The DIY route allows you to make diffusers and bass traps that out perform the mass-produced acoustical treatments, is usually less costly and a great learning process. I'm getting rid of my GIK stuff as I've built bass traps from Sonotubes and bought OC701 fiberglass by the bales. (My system pics will show some of what I speak of.)

(G) Bass in small domestic rooms is a crap shoot and I'd recommend 2-4 subwoofers to help smoothen out the bass response. Bass traps alone are a necessary but insufficient condition.

(H) Parametric EQ will allow you to attenuate any left over bass peaks.

So, there you have it - some education, some acoustical measurements, experimentation with reflection/diffusion/absorption, multiple sub's and PEQ. Good luck!

kevinzoe

Owner
Rodm3878,
Thanks. I am just about getting my new room finished. This time I have taken great care to optimize the speaker positioning for near-field listening. Without a plinth or spikes on them, they are already sounding very good. I know that with their spikes, it will take the bass up a notch and stabilize the stereo image further.
I have decided to go with GIK audio treatments. I will post new pics soon.

milpai

I initially ordered a pair of 21L2's in a piano black finish, but I settled on the 22L2's. I think the cherry finish is gorgeous. I decided on the Quads mainly because of the comments and recommendations I read on this site. I've never listened to any Quad speakers before except on You Tube. I began my search for Quad speakers about 4 months ago when I first saw your superb looking setup.

You have a very nice set up. Enjoy! Oh, the Signal Cable Silver Resolution bi-wire cables are also very nice.

rodm3878

Owner
Thanks for your kind words Baxman. I am in the process of building a new music room. But my equipment will remain the same. Yes, it's a joy to hear the system play. But it has been a frustrating 6 months with the system packed up. We had a baby and then moved from an apartment into a home.

Currently done "priming" the walls to get rid of the olive green paint. Will go with some light paint. Will also do some room treatments in the near future. I planned to get the room done this weekend, but with 2 kids, it's always a hands full.

milpai

What a cool looking system, I bet it sounds amazing and you didn't spend a fortune. It's my kind of system. Keep it simple, it's all about the music. I go out into the world to hear systems north of 100k in price and don't connect with the music.

baxman

Owner
Was out of the country on a vacation for more than a month. Got back and looking to get the room completed soon. The doors were done before we left on a vacation.
The first and foremost thing we will do is paint the room. The next thing is to set up the system. Then I intend to put in some room treatments. The room is 13.5L X 12.5W X 9H. I know it is squarish, but I have no other option. I am, in the meanwhile, discussing the treatments with GIK Acoustics, who have made their preliminary recommendations based on the room dimensions and pictures I sent across. One think that I want to find out is, treating the glass panels on the french door. I also am not sure if I should get some professional in, to help me figure out the problems in this room and then decide on the treatment.

milpai

Owner
Getting the french-doors installed in the next week. Frankly I do not know how it will work out, since this room is kind of small (13 X 12). I envy all the people with big/medium rooms. But I will have to look at some good room treatments, since this is my home and not an apartment, where it was not an option. My wife seems to be fine with me spending on room treatments. So once the door is done, I will focus on room treatments.

milpai

Owner
Thank You for the kind words, Evan. I am dying to setup my new room, once I get doors installed. I have 2 installers coming in to see the space and providing me quotes, this weekend.

Alex, I am so glad to hear about the offer. I think it is time for you to THOROUGHLY your system and celebrate!! Thank You for the compliments. I liked the Grados for their open sound. I did compare them to the other cans in the $100 range and I felt that they had a good airy sound. They are easy to drive and do not specially need headphone amps. I listen to them once in a while (like once every week - when the system is up and running). Again , good luck on the offer that you are expecting and update us about it on your system page.

milpai

Hey buddy. well things seem to be looking on the up and up; an offer should be coming in soon for a new job, we'll see. in the meantime, your system seems simple yet quite effective, clean as in the not clutter. i don't think I've ever listened to a pair of Grado... how do they sound?

alex_tall

Congrats on the new house!

I've always loved this system, can't wait to see the new room.

Evan

ekwisnek

Owner
Finally moved to a house. This is our first one. Have not yet set up the system. The reason is - the dedicated music room does not have a door. It has a rough opening of 94" X 65" and I need to put a door in. I was told that this is not the standard size for a French Door. So I am open to ideas from members on this forum. This room is 13 X 12.

milpai

Owner
Hell lot of anticipation to move into new house that we are closing soon. One critical requirement while searching for a house was - a dedicated music room. Keeping fingers crossed.

milpai

Owner
System edited: Good to be back after 5 1/2 months. I think I am simply addicted to music. During the hibernation stages I continued to buy music and make minor changes to the system. I changed the spaces on the amp-end of my speaker cable to BFA. The connection to the amp with this change is much more stable and provide more "area" for connection. The system had to be run it at least 6-10 hours before, what I felt, it reached the clarity level I am accustomed to. The system sounds a bit louder than I remember from 5 1/2 months back. Dunno if this is because of the minor cable tweak or my perception.

milpai

Owner
System edited: With the new baby due next month, the system is packed up till spring. Need to use the 2nd bedroom. Did late night listening till almost 4:00am last night and enjoyed every bit of it. Will miss my music so much. Though I have a decent pair of headphones, I don't thing they even come close.

milpai

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