milpai's system

by milpai on Clear DayTvcQuadParasoundCullen CablesGikBrickwallHerbie's AudioOppoPuresonicAurisbluMeProAcUDP-205D48RBackert LabsRhumba 1.3Cardas ParsecInakustikFurutechIsoAcousticsGaiaReferenzLS-2404 AIRAsusUSBStreamingNF-2404 AIRISO-puck miniAudioQuest Fog Lifters
From listening position
Back of room, listening position
ProAc Profile
MTM Configuration
Ribbon Tweeter
Parasound A21
Rhumba 1.3
T+A DAC 200
Audio Server
Control Center
Inakustik AC-3500P ON (blue)
Inakustik AC-3500P OFF (white)
Inakustik AC-3500P back
Power cable management
Bi-wire config
AIR Referenz
Matches the loudspeakers
Inakustik NF-2404 Air
USB cable
Cable Management
Inakustik 2502F power cord
Furutech connectors
Ceiling treatment
Puron filter
Gaia II
Gaia II closeup
AQ FogLifters

Description

December 2024
Replaced the Oppo UDP-205 with the T+A DAC 200

April 2024
Moved the GIK Monster Bass traps from back wall to front of the room to control bass. This tightened the bass as well as opened up the mid-range and treble notes. Did not realize that the change would be so profound. Should have done this years ago.

Feb-2024
Added another Puron filter

Jan-2024
Added a Puron filter

Oct-2022
Added the Mazda 1960s grey plates 12AU7 to the Rhumba. They opened my eyes (and ears) as to why people are ready to pay so much for NOS tubes.

Aug-2022
Added Isoacoustic mini-pucks beneath the Inakustik and audio server.
Added a custom built audio server to replace the aging Asus laptop. I did not realize how much profound effect a dedicated server has on the quality of the sound.

Oct-2021
Added the ISO-puck mini under the Backert Labs Rhumba 1.3 and Oppo UDP-205.
Added Isoacoustic Carpet spikes for Gaia II.

Aug-2021
Added the AudioQuest Foglifters. Initially added for "looks" and cable dressing. But found that it adds finesse and delicacy to instruments in the music. My guess is the contact area of the cable from the original wooden raisers has reduced more than 90% and that might be the reason. I am happy.

July-2021
Added the GIK 242 ceiling panel that balanced the sound from the left speaker, that was getting missed due to the unavoidable soffit in the room. So much to learn from your own experience.

Dec-2020
Purchased the Fidelizer PRO. This has immensely changed the listening experience. Folks using a Windows machine should certainly give a shot to the free version. You have nothing to loose except 5 minutes. The best part of free version is it is an exe files that you run and not install. So if you don't like it, just delete the .exe.

Oct-2020
Upgraded Asus K52 with a Asus S400CA, 8GB RAM and 1TB SSD. Again, this is an older laptop repurposed for audio. Also added a NAS server and all audio files are on that server. Connection to this server is via ethernet and not wifi. Evaluating the free version of Fidelizer which makes very audible, positive change in my system.

Jul-2020
Repurposed an old laptop for streaming Spotify/Qobuz and also digital files. The laptop was upgraded from 3GB to 8GB RAM and from 250GB HDD to 1TB SSD for DSD and FLAC files. Installed Foobar2000 with Eole skin on the laptop to play the digital files. Using an old iPad mini 2 tablet with MonkeyMote to control this laptop remotely. Love this app!
Installed the Inakustik Reference High Speed USB between the laptop and Oppo 205, which is now used as a DAC.

Jun-2020
Added Inakustik NF-2404 XLRs between Oppo-Backert and Backert-Parasound.
Will try to find some time to do a mini review of these cables, if I find time. These cables pull you into the music way too much.

Mar-2020
Added Inakustik LS-2404 AIR biwire loudspeaker cables

Nov-2019
Added the IsoAcoustics Gaia II footers to the ProAcs

Jun-2019
Added the Inakustik AC-3500p power conditioner in the system.

Nov-2018
Replaced the Promitheus Reference C-core TVC with Backert Labs Rhumba 1.3 preamplifier

Jan-2018
Replaced the Quad 21L with the ProAc D48R in Ebony.

October-2017
Replaced the Teac CD-1000 SACD player with Oppo UDP-205 universal disc player.

September-2015
Replaced the Marantz SACD player with Teac CD-1000.

May-2015
New room finished in April. Room is 19 X 15 X 8. Three walls were already in place (concrete). Had the 4th wall built with double drywalls inside/outside and using GreenGlue. 2 dedicated 10gauge 20 amp lines for amps and electronics. Speakers are 4 feet from back wall and 3 feet from side wall. Placement of speakers, chair, panels etc are within 1/8th inch tolerance. Replaced Signal Cable power cables with Cullen Cables Crossover Series power cords, because I needed longer and flexible cables.

Feb-2015
Replaced Signal Cable Silver Resolution RCAs between Marantz and TVC with Clear Day's RCA cables.

Sep-2014
Replaced Signal Cable Silver Resolution XLR between TVC and amp with Clear Day's XLR cables.

Aug-2014
Replaced the Signal Cable Silver Resolution bi-wires with Clear Day Double Shotguns and jumpers between HF and LF speaker terminals.

04-Dec-2013:
Replaced original wooden footers under TVCs with Ebony footers. Simply unbelievable - what they did.

February 2012 - September 2012:
Been exited to have a dedicated room for this "passion". This word was emphasized by a female family friend. She was amazed by how passionately I could go on and on about this hobby. She likes classical music. Soon after we moved into our first home, I did post some questions on this forum about french doors. Those are in place now and I am happy with their looks. Per my wife (touch wood), I need to place something on the door panels for preventing reflections and maintaining privacy. Her support for me in this hobby has been outstanding and I would not have reached this far, if not for her. So, that treatment on the door will come sometimes later this year. This is a small room with 13.5'X12.5'X9' dimensions. I painted this room myself (first time, never did this before). The speakers are placed along the shorter wall. They are 40" from front wall and about 30" from side walls. They are about 7' apart with some toe-in. I sit slightly more than 7' away. All measurements are within 1/10" error. Finding the optimum position for speaker took me about 24 to 30 man hours. Though this is painful, the outcome of this exercise is mind-boggling. Got some granite to go between the floor and speakers. These are 18"X18"X1.5". This has tightened the bass and has provided necessary isolation from the wooden floor below. At the same time, added Herbie Audio Lab's Extra Thick Hush Puckies under the speaker spikes and the granite. This causes the speaker to not "ring" and provides stability to the speakers, because of the dBNeutralizer base. Since this is my own space, I added some treatments from GIK. Bryan Pape at GIK was very helpful and actually told me to go easy on the treatments. We started with 2 Tri-traps on the corners and 2 Monster Panels on the back wall directly behind the listening position. I liked the way the bass tightened up. Bryan suggested the 244 instead of 242s on the first reflection panels to take care of any phase issues as well. And that has turned pretty nice. Also got the terminations on the speaker wires changed from spades to BFA bananas. I am totally sold on the BFAs. Superb contact and fit. Some of you advised me to move the equipments from between the speakers. Though I could not do it 100%, what I did was, to disassemble the rack and use the shelfs on the floor directly. But the resulting change in the sound staging is simply fantastic. I never imagined that a rack placed between 2 speakers can mess the soundstage. With all this in place I did miss some "meat" in my system. But I thought it was the size of the room that was causing the nulls and there was probably nothing I could do. What finally brought "life" in my system was the new XLRs between the preamp (TVC) and the amp. The move from RCA to XLR in my system was nothing short of drastic. I have mentioned this on this site as well as a forum dedicated to Parasound Halo products. Apparently, there was not enough gain in my system and so the "meat" was missing on the bones, if you will. This was not so obvious in the previous apartment room, since it was small and the speakers used to be closer to the walls. In the near future, I would like to add 3 242 GIK panels on the front wall, behind the speakers. Will first experiment with the existing Monster Panels on the front wall.


March 2010:
The Parasound amp has changed my system profoundly. I cannot believe the transparency and expansiveness it has brought into my system. And it seems a very good match for my TVC as I set the TVC volume to lower levels than my previous amp.

April 2009: Added the Promitheus TVC, which took my system to an altogether different level. I did not imagine of such a performance from my system. Looking for a good power amp now. Want a power amp with high sensitivity and power - to match the TVC and also in case I upgrade my speakers at a later time.

August-2005
It took many listening sessions, forums, mags, etc to build this starter system. Was worth every minute spent for building it. Started with recommended components list - but ended with what my ears liked.
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Room Details

Dimensions: 19’ × 15’  Medium
Ceiling: 8’

Components Toggle details

    • ProAc Response D48R Loudspeakers
    Ebony with Ribbon tweeter.
    • Parasound A21
    250 watts RMS x 2, 20 Hz - 20 kHz,8Ω, Class AB Sensitivity: 1 V for 28.28 V
    • Backert Labs Rhumba 1.3
    Tube preamplifier with 2 X 12AU7 tubes
    • T+A DAC 200
    True 1-bit converter - processes DSD files in their native form
    Uses 4 32-bit Burr-Brown converters per channel for PCM processing
    • Custom build Audio Server Audio Server
    Custom built audio server for streaming FLAC/DSD files and also other streaming services. Based on Streacom FC10 Alpha chassis. Running HQ Player for converting files to DSD 512
    • Signalyst HQ Player
    High quality file processor/player for converting FLAC files to 512 DSD
    • Inakustik Reference Power Station AC-3500P
    Power Conditioner
    • Inakustik LS-2404 Air
    Bi-wire speaker cables
    • Inakustik NF-2404 Air
    XLR Cables
    • Inakustik Reference High Speed USB
    USB cable
    • Inakustik 2502F
    Power Cord
    • Furutech FI-28(R)/FI-32(R)
    • Cullen Cables Crossover Series 10 AWG
    Amplifier Power Cord
    • Cullen Cables Crossover Series 12 AWG
    SACD player power cord
    • IsoAcoustics Gaia II
    Isolation footers for loudspeakers
    • IsoAcoustics Gaia II Carpet Spikes
    Carpet Spikes for the Gaia II
    • IsoAcoustics ISO-puck mini
    Footers under the preamp and DAC
    • AudioQuest Fog Lifters
    Cable dressers and system enhancers.
    • World Market Kendall Chair
    Very comfortable chair. Suede. No support directly behind the head which means sound is not distorted. I was searching for something like this for quite some time. I looked at some LC2 and LC3 knock-offs. But they were all leather that could reflect sound. Chocolate color which also matches the GIK panels.
    • GIK Acoustics Tri-Trap
    For front corners behind the speakers, in coffee color.
    • GIK Acoustics Monster Bass Trap
    Mounted on the wall behind listening seat.
    • GIK Acoustics 244 Bass Trap
    Absorption panel in Coffee color, mounted at first reflection points, that also takes care of phase related issues. Plan to get 2 more to go in the center of the room behind the speakers.
    • GIK Acoustics 242 broadband panel
    2' X 2' absorption panel
    • Porterhouse Audio Porter Ports
    • Puron
    Power filter
    • Apple iPad Gen 9
    iPad 9th generation for controlling Foobar2000 using MonkeyMote, Spotify and Oppo UDP-205 remote.

Comments 308

Showing all comments by kevinzoe.

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Hi Milpai,
Congrats on the dedicated room and the GIK investment. I too started down the acoustical treatment path using GIK goodies.

Have you a measurement device to know the before and after effects of adding treatments or moving them to a different place within the room? I find that this is a critical tool and just as important as the acoustical treatment itself. Especially for getting the low end right.

Regarding your front wall behind the speakers and your comment of trying to decide on absorption or diffusion - why not use both? You already have lots of absorption with the GIK stuff and carpeting attenuated lots of high freq energy, so I might be inclined to suggest diffusion and reflection. For your sized room I would suggest a hemi-cylindrical,or poly fused or some other geometrical shape. While a 180 degree poly will scatter sound in about a 120 degrees it won't offer any temporal (phase) effects which in a small room where sitting distance away from the diffuser is a major constraint, is acceptable. Said another way, you can sit closer to a diffuser than doesn't offer temporal effects or a 2D diffuser that sends back about 50% of the scattered energy to the listener.

RIVES appears to be keen on using these polys in the middle of the front wall. I have taken this same approach but have added a GIK Monster trap on either side of the poly with DIY bass traps in each corner but covered with a wooden surface to avoid mid and high freq absorption.

Alternatively, Toole's suggests absorption in the centre of the wall to kill a typical bass node coming from there. You could then put diffusion on either side of the centered bass trap.

Take freq and bass decay measurements and subjective listening notes for all options to help in getting it just right.

kevinzoe

Hi Milpai,
I was reading your "GIK vs Acoustimac" thread and several things struck me, so as a GIK customer and someone who's invested a lot of time & $$$ into room acoustics, may I share some thoughts with you?

(A) Firstly, congrats on investing in acoustical room treatments (regardless of which manufacturer you went with)! You will likley be pleasantly surprised at how much of an improvement they add to your listening pleasure as most domestic rooms are God awful listening environments due to flutter echos, uneven bass response, and too long or short reverb times.

(B) I would hightly recommend some education around the physics of small room acoustics. Read Dr. Floyd Toole's book "Sound Reproduction: The Acoustics and Psychoacoustics of Loudspeakers and Rooms" and F. Alton Everest & Ken C. Pohlmann's "Master Handbook of Acoustics."

(C) To make the best use of your acoustical treatments you will need to get an acoustical measurement tool. The most basic "rocks & sticks" approach is a Radio Shack SLP meter and download some test frequency response files for playback. I really like the easy to use Dayton Audio OmniMic, and another good one is the XTZ tool. These are around $300 but well worth the investment as you will use them time and again as the positioning of acoustical treatments is an itterative excercise. You will need to "shoot the room" to know what the 'Frequency VS SPL' and Reverb Times are BEFORE you place the acoustical treatments in the room to compare them to your baseline measurement.

(D) The GIK stuff is good and with enough you will hear differences. I was surprised to know that you really won't get much effect from 1 or 2 bass traps - you need several of them to make a difference, usually. I found GIK doesn't really educate you on how best to place their products in your room. It is critical to have an air space behind your bass traps so that they extend to deeper frequencies and not just upper bass / lower midrange frequencies. So for example their website shows Tri-Traps fit snuggly into the room corner to take advantage of their triangular shape, however this doesn't provide any air space, unless you pull the trap out from the corner walls. Try rotating the Tri-Traps 180degrees so the 'front' of the trap is facing into the corner. Or better yet, place to Tri-Traps together to form a rectangle and have a 6"-8" air space, and then stack another pair on top to extend from floor to ceiling - now that's a bass trap! Unfortunately, resistive-type bass traps filled with fiberglass need to be very thick with largish air spaces. If your room won't accommodate this then try leaving the door open to allow the bass to escape or get the diaphragmatic-type bass traps from RPG which hang right on your wall with much smaller foot print.

(E) Remember that acoustical treatment are (i)reflection, (ii)absorption, and (iii)diffusion. Don't overdose on absorption without considering reflection and diffusion.

(F) The DIY route allows you to make diffusers and bass traps that out perform the mass-produced acoustical treatments, is usually less costly and a great learning process. I'm getting rid of my GIK stuff as I've built bass traps from Sonotubes and bought OC701 fiberglass by the bales. (My system pics will show some of what I speak of.)

(G) Bass in small domestic rooms is a crap shoot and I'd recommend 2-4 subwoofers to help smoothen out the bass response. Bass traps alone are a necessary but insufficient condition.

(H) Parametric EQ will allow you to attenuate any left over bass peaks.

So, there you have it - some education, some acoustical measurements, experimentation with reflection/diffusion/absorption, multiple sub's and PEQ. Good luck!

kevinzoe

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