milpai's system

by milpai on Clear DayTvcQuadParasoundCullen CablesGikBrickwallHerbie's AudioOppoPuresonicAurisbluMeProAcUDP-205D48RBackert LabsRhumba 1.3Cardas ParsecInakustikFurutechIsoAcousticsGaiaReferenzLS-2404 AIRAsusUSBStreamingNF-2404 AIRISO-puck miniAudioQuest Fog Lifters
From listening position
Back of room, listening position
ProAc Profile
MTM Configuration
Ribbon Tweeter
Parasound A21
Rhumba 1.3
T+A DAC 200
Audio Server
Control Center
Inakustik AC-3500P ON (blue)
Inakustik AC-3500P OFF (white)
Inakustik AC-3500P back
Power cable management
Bi-wire config
AIR Referenz
Matches the loudspeakers
Inakustik NF-2404 Air
USB cable
Cable Management
Inakustik 2502F power cord
Furutech connectors
Ceiling treatment
Puron filter
Gaia II
Gaia II closeup
AQ FogLifters

Description

December 2024
Replaced the Oppo UDP-205 with the T+A DAC 200

April 2024
Moved the GIK Monster Bass traps from back wall to front of the room to control bass. This tightened the bass as well as opened up the mid-range and treble notes. Did not realize that the change would be so profound. Should have done this years ago.

Feb-2024
Added another Puron filter

Jan-2024
Added a Puron filter

Oct-2022
Added the Mazda 1960s grey plates 12AU7 to the Rhumba. They opened my eyes (and ears) as to why people are ready to pay so much for NOS tubes.

Aug-2022
Added Isoacoustic mini-pucks beneath the Inakustik and audio server.
Added a custom built audio server to replace the aging Asus laptop. I did not realize how much profound effect a dedicated server has on the quality of the sound.

Oct-2021
Added the ISO-puck mini under the Backert Labs Rhumba 1.3 and Oppo UDP-205.
Added Isoacoustic Carpet spikes for Gaia II.

Aug-2021
Added the AudioQuest Foglifters. Initially added for "looks" and cable dressing. But found that it adds finesse and delicacy to instruments in the music. My guess is the contact area of the cable from the original wooden raisers has reduced more than 90% and that might be the reason. I am happy.

July-2021
Added the GIK 242 ceiling panel that balanced the sound from the left speaker, that was getting missed due to the unavoidable soffit in the room. So much to learn from your own experience.

Dec-2020
Purchased the Fidelizer PRO. This has immensely changed the listening experience. Folks using a Windows machine should certainly give a shot to the free version. You have nothing to loose except 5 minutes. The best part of free version is it is an exe files that you run and not install. So if you don't like it, just delete the .exe.

Oct-2020
Upgraded Asus K52 with a Asus S400CA, 8GB RAM and 1TB SSD. Again, this is an older laptop repurposed for audio. Also added a NAS server and all audio files are on that server. Connection to this server is via ethernet and not wifi. Evaluating the free version of Fidelizer which makes very audible, positive change in my system.

Jul-2020
Repurposed an old laptop for streaming Spotify/Qobuz and also digital files. The laptop was upgraded from 3GB to 8GB RAM and from 250GB HDD to 1TB SSD for DSD and FLAC files. Installed Foobar2000 with Eole skin on the laptop to play the digital files. Using an old iPad mini 2 tablet with MonkeyMote to control this laptop remotely. Love this app!
Installed the Inakustik Reference High Speed USB between the laptop and Oppo 205, which is now used as a DAC.

Jun-2020
Added Inakustik NF-2404 XLRs between Oppo-Backert and Backert-Parasound.
Will try to find some time to do a mini review of these cables, if I find time. These cables pull you into the music way too much.

Mar-2020
Added Inakustik LS-2404 AIR biwire loudspeaker cables

Nov-2019
Added the IsoAcoustics Gaia II footers to the ProAcs

Jun-2019
Added the Inakustik AC-3500p power conditioner in the system.

Nov-2018
Replaced the Promitheus Reference C-core TVC with Backert Labs Rhumba 1.3 preamplifier

Jan-2018
Replaced the Quad 21L with the ProAc D48R in Ebony.

October-2017
Replaced the Teac CD-1000 SACD player with Oppo UDP-205 universal disc player.

September-2015
Replaced the Marantz SACD player with Teac CD-1000.

May-2015
New room finished in April. Room is 19 X 15 X 8. Three walls were already in place (concrete). Had the 4th wall built with double drywalls inside/outside and using GreenGlue. 2 dedicated 10gauge 20 amp lines for amps and electronics. Speakers are 4 feet from back wall and 3 feet from side wall. Placement of speakers, chair, panels etc are within 1/8th inch tolerance. Replaced Signal Cable power cables with Cullen Cables Crossover Series power cords, because I needed longer and flexible cables.

Feb-2015
Replaced Signal Cable Silver Resolution RCAs between Marantz and TVC with Clear Day's RCA cables.

Sep-2014
Replaced Signal Cable Silver Resolution XLR between TVC and amp with Clear Day's XLR cables.

Aug-2014
Replaced the Signal Cable Silver Resolution bi-wires with Clear Day Double Shotguns and jumpers between HF and LF speaker terminals.

04-Dec-2013:
Replaced original wooden footers under TVCs with Ebony footers. Simply unbelievable - what they did.

February 2012 - September 2012:
Been exited to have a dedicated room for this "passion". This word was emphasized by a female family friend. She was amazed by how passionately I could go on and on about this hobby. She likes classical music. Soon after we moved into our first home, I did post some questions on this forum about french doors. Those are in place now and I am happy with their looks. Per my wife (touch wood), I need to place something on the door panels for preventing reflections and maintaining privacy. Her support for me in this hobby has been outstanding and I would not have reached this far, if not for her. So, that treatment on the door will come sometimes later this year. This is a small room with 13.5'X12.5'X9' dimensions. I painted this room myself (first time, never did this before). The speakers are placed along the shorter wall. They are 40" from front wall and about 30" from side walls. They are about 7' apart with some toe-in. I sit slightly more than 7' away. All measurements are within 1/10" error. Finding the optimum position for speaker took me about 24 to 30 man hours. Though this is painful, the outcome of this exercise is mind-boggling. Got some granite to go between the floor and speakers. These are 18"X18"X1.5". This has tightened the bass and has provided necessary isolation from the wooden floor below. At the same time, added Herbie Audio Lab's Extra Thick Hush Puckies under the speaker spikes and the granite. This causes the speaker to not "ring" and provides stability to the speakers, because of the dBNeutralizer base. Since this is my own space, I added some treatments from GIK. Bryan Pape at GIK was very helpful and actually told me to go easy on the treatments. We started with 2 Tri-traps on the corners and 2 Monster Panels on the back wall directly behind the listening position. I liked the way the bass tightened up. Bryan suggested the 244 instead of 242s on the first reflection panels to take care of any phase issues as well. And that has turned pretty nice. Also got the terminations on the speaker wires changed from spades to BFA bananas. I am totally sold on the BFAs. Superb contact and fit. Some of you advised me to move the equipments from between the speakers. Though I could not do it 100%, what I did was, to disassemble the rack and use the shelfs on the floor directly. But the resulting change in the sound staging is simply fantastic. I never imagined that a rack placed between 2 speakers can mess the soundstage. With all this in place I did miss some "meat" in my system. But I thought it was the size of the room that was causing the nulls and there was probably nothing I could do. What finally brought "life" in my system was the new XLRs between the preamp (TVC) and the amp. The move from RCA to XLR in my system was nothing short of drastic. I have mentioned this on this site as well as a forum dedicated to Parasound Halo products. Apparently, there was not enough gain in my system and so the "meat" was missing on the bones, if you will. This was not so obvious in the previous apartment room, since it was small and the speakers used to be closer to the walls. In the near future, I would like to add 3 242 GIK panels on the front wall, behind the speakers. Will first experiment with the existing Monster Panels on the front wall.


March 2010:
The Parasound amp has changed my system profoundly. I cannot believe the transparency and expansiveness it has brought into my system. And it seems a very good match for my TVC as I set the TVC volume to lower levels than my previous amp.

April 2009: Added the Promitheus TVC, which took my system to an altogether different level. I did not imagine of such a performance from my system. Looking for a good power amp now. Want a power amp with high sensitivity and power - to match the TVC and also in case I upgrade my speakers at a later time.

August-2005
It took many listening sessions, forums, mags, etc to build this starter system. Was worth every minute spent for building it. Started with recommended components list - but ended with what my ears liked.
Read more...

Room Details

Dimensions: 19’ × 15’  Medium
Ceiling: 8’

Components Toggle details

    • ProAc Response D48R Loudspeakers
    Ebony with Ribbon tweeter.
    • Parasound A21
    250 watts RMS x 2, 20 Hz - 20 kHz,8Ω, Class AB Sensitivity: 1 V for 28.28 V
    • Backert Labs Rhumba 1.3
    Tube preamplifier with 2 X 12AU7 tubes
    • T+A DAC 200
    True 1-bit converter - processes DSD files in their native form
    Uses 4 32-bit Burr-Brown converters per channel for PCM processing
    • Custom build Audio Server Audio Server
    Custom built audio server for streaming FLAC/DSD files and also other streaming services. Based on Streacom FC10 Alpha chassis. Running HQ Player for converting files to DSD 512
    • Signalyst HQ Player
    High quality file processor/player for converting FLAC files to 512 DSD
    • Inakustik Reference Power Station AC-3500P
    Power Conditioner
    • Inakustik LS-2404 Air
    Bi-wire speaker cables
    • Inakustik NF-2404 Air
    XLR Cables
    • Inakustik Reference High Speed USB
    USB cable
    • Inakustik 2502F
    Power Cord
    • Furutech FI-28(R)/FI-32(R)
    • Cullen Cables Crossover Series 10 AWG
    Amplifier Power Cord
    • Cullen Cables Crossover Series 12 AWG
    SACD player power cord
    • IsoAcoustics Gaia II
    Isolation footers for loudspeakers
    • IsoAcoustics Gaia II Carpet Spikes
    Carpet Spikes for the Gaia II
    • IsoAcoustics ISO-puck mini
    Footers under the preamp and DAC
    • AudioQuest Fog Lifters
    Cable dressers and system enhancers.
    • World Market Kendall Chair
    Very comfortable chair. Suede. No support directly behind the head which means sound is not distorted. I was searching for something like this for quite some time. I looked at some LC2 and LC3 knock-offs. But they were all leather that could reflect sound. Chocolate color which also matches the GIK panels.
    • GIK Acoustics Tri-Trap
    For front corners behind the speakers, in coffee color.
    • GIK Acoustics Monster Bass Trap
    Mounted on the wall behind listening seat.
    • GIK Acoustics 244 Bass Trap
    Absorption panel in Coffee color, mounted at first reflection points, that also takes care of phase related issues. Plan to get 2 more to go in the center of the room behind the speakers.
    • GIK Acoustics 242 broadband panel
    2' X 2' absorption panel
    • Porterhouse Audio Porter Ports
    • Puron
    Power filter
    • Apple iPad Gen 9
    iPad 9th generation for controlling Foobar2000 using MonkeyMote, Spotify and Oppo UDP-205 remote.

Comments 308

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Owner
Gmc56, thanks for the info. How do you find out where to place the panels on the wall? I have not worked with fiberglass panels. But will like to know more - where you get them (Home Depot?), how to handle them, how to frame them, etc.

milpai

I actual made mine from 2 x 4 formed fiberglass panels. They are terrific and are the least expensive. I made these finished for about $25 per panel. Let me know if you have more questions.

gmc56

Owner
Gmc56, I totally believe you. I tried experimenting with room treatment using some old rugs on the wall. The WAF was 0% and had to take it down. But the changes that made in the sound was amazing. Did you use the Duct Board as well to create your own panels?

milpai

I was encouraged to try some room treatments by fellow audiogoner's recently and did so. All I will say is "WOW", do it. You won't believe what a difference it makes. I made my own panels on the cheap!

gmc56

Owner
One thing I realize is that my room does have some unwanted reflections. The new amp is superb for mono CDs and I can clearly hear the added body that it delivers to mono sound (older Jazz and Blues). The "natural" bass that was missing in action from the previous amp is very apparent now. I will look into "Duct Board" that Zmanastronomy has used very effectively in his room setup. I need to find out about the placement about the panels, if I buy any kind of room treatment panels. I am in two minds about treating the room currently, as I live in an apartment. But I am 100% sure that my system will benefit a lot from room treatment.

milpai

Owner
System edited: February 2010: Added the Parasound A21 power amp to my system. The sensitivity of this amp matches the TVC perfectly. Sold the NAD integrated. The Parasound is in a totally different league than the NAD. Will update the thread latter with my experience with the a21. For now, let me say this - I have achieved what I was looking for in my system.

milpai

Owner
Yep, they got the first shipment of H20 just 3-4 weeks back. So yes, you would be the first one to get the H20 in either Canada or US. I am guessing there may not be too many units even in Norway or Japan, because I could not find anything on avforum.no (used google translate). Just 1 or 2 mention of that amp along with a new integrated - the H70. Did you check out their video on YouTube? They claim to reduce the harmonics greater than third order, there by making their sound almost tube-like, maybe better. They do mention that their amps are the best of both world (tube and SS).
One thing I must say about the A21 though - I am amazed by what this amp can do after just 10 hours of break in. You need to audition this amp and then decide if you want to go any other route. A bonus is that it matches VERY WELL with passive preamps.

milpai

In fact i would be one of the first person in Canada to get it :p Both H10 and H4A are great amp. I could easily live with both of them for a long time but the price is too high for now. I love their punch, speed and soundstage but to my taste they are maybe lacking a tinny bit of warmth (but really not by much). My speakers are Jm Lab so i can't count on them to make the sound warmer.. I'm still trying to find a dealer where i could listen to the A21..

enfanform

Owner
Enfanform, I will update my system shortly with new pics and experience. In short - I love the A21. Did you get a chance to listen to the A21 and compare with Hegel? How did you like the sound of H10/H4A? I believe the H200 is an integrated amp. If you like the sound of Hegel, then get the H20. You would be one of the FIRST persons in the US to get it.

milpai

Don't forget to tell us how you like your new a21! I'm considering this amp but i'm still hesitating between the parasound and an Hegel power amp (i listened to: H4A, H10 and H200 integrated.)

enfanform

Owner
Afranta,
It does not matter you use an old or new amp, as long as you enjoy your music. I guess with the PS Audio P200 you will start looking for a better amp, you never know. I will update my system once I get the new amp. The Parasound A21 is something that seem to fit my requirements and budget. But I will wait till CES 2010 in Jan before I reach a decision, since Aragon and Acurus are supposed to make some anouncements.

milpai

Milpai,
I'm using my old integrated (Music Hall a25.2) as a preamp. I'm tempted by the PS Audio P200, but I'm satisfied with the MH for now: it's quiet and having one remote for the preamp and cdp (MH cd25.2) is convenient. I do love the 11Ls; they're small, but given my restrictions (speakers have to be on a console rather than stands and near the wall), they perform beautifully. Good luck with your search and happy listening!

afranta

Owner
I will look into PS Audio A100. Thanks for letting me know Afranta. I as looking for something in the lines of Parasound A21, as it has massive power (250W 8 Ohma), high current (60 amps) and high sensitivity (1V). I did not see any specs on the PS audio site.
The Quad 11Ls are superb speakers. In fact I love the entire Quad L series line. What preamp are you using with the PS Audio amp?

milpai

You might want to check out a PS Audio Trio A100 amp. I'm driving Quad 11Ls with one now with excellent results, and PS Audio claims that it's well-suited to tubed preamps. They're also pretty affordable used.

afranta

Owner
Jehuty,
Thanks. I intend to go for a solid state amp rather than tube amp. Just a preference and nothing else.
I always felt that the Quads would like a high-current amp. How did the "dynamics" of the Quads change after you introduced JLTi amp? I get the same feedback from other a'goners on Krell.
I recently got a feedback to for for Wyred 4 sound instead of Plinius 301. I was interested in the SX-1000 from W4S. But it's sensitivity is too low to go with my TVC. I will check with W4S if the sensitivity of that amp can be changed.

milpai

G'day from the land down under!

You have a very neat setup. That's my system goal as well. I'm sure your system sounds nice. If you're looking for power amp, try this one: http://www.customanalogue.com/jlti_el34.htm

Do some research first about JLTi before you ignore them. JLTi is very well received here in Australia and don't be fooled by it's power rating. Early this year, one of JLTi amp won shootout against some highly regarded tube amps and solid state amp as well.

My system is very modest which comprises of Dacmagic, JLTi EL34 and Quad 21L2. So far the addition of JLTi EL34 improved my system quite dramatically. My previous amp was Cambridge Audio 640a. It was a nice budget integrated but no slouch against JLTi EL34. Music just comes out effortlessly and there are much more details. I can listen to music for hours without getting fatigue. I also once listened to Quad 21L2 driven by Krell KAV-2250. It was frighteningly detailed but I couldn't listen for too long, it was just too dry. Perhaps not my cup of tea.

Anyway, all the best finding the best amp for your system. I'm sure it'll be an interesting journey.

Happy listening :)

jehuty

Owner
System edited: Guess it is time to upgrade to a full-fledge power amp. Looking for a solid state power amp with sensitivity < 1V and high input impedance. If you have any recommendations, please suggest. Thanks :-)

milpai

Owner
Jadisboy,
Thanks much. Your opinion was very helpful in making the decision. I had posted reviews of this TVC on audiogon as well as audioasylum. See the links below:

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?rprea&1242576656
http://www.audioasylum.com/reviews/Preamplifier-SS/Promitheus-Audio/Reference-C-Core/amp/14/144765.html

I am pretty impressed by the TVC - coming from a modest integrated. I want to get a good power amp in the next 6-12 months.

milpai

WOW
Milpai you buy the TVC great
Good my friend i wait your comment :)

jadisboy

Owner
System edited: Received the TVC over a month ago and have been busy listening to it. The addition of this TVC has been an excellent upgrade to my system. I will post my comments after doing some critical listening.

milpai

Owner
Just now ordered the Promitheus Reference C-Core dual box with Elma switches. Have never heard one, but ordered it based on positive feedback/reviews from fellow audiogoners/asylum inmates/audiocircle pals. The estimated wait period in 3 weeks.
This is going to be my first "separates" component. Will eventually move to a separate power amp when budgets permit. So the "upgrade bug" finally got me!!

milpai

Owner
System edited: Added the Salamander Designs Archetype 5 stand for the components. The sonic benefits of this stands far exceed the cost, which I did not expect. Besides making the system look better, the imaging and spaciousness of the sound has improved a lot. I guess the Megaspikes are also responsible for this change. I really like the slight added depth that is now added during the playback. Wow, who could have thought that a dedicated stand could make such a difference!! The setup did take about a hour or so, which included the leveling of each shelf. But it was worth it. Looks like a decent system rather than a starter system. My quest for a preamplifier and power amp continues. I really look forward to add the Promitheus TVC to my system. And then the Red Wine Audio 30.2 power amp later.

milpai

You are very welcome! I definitely agree that the Quads are very special speakers. I would actually say they would work "very" well with either the standard Unico,the SE, or the new Secondo model. Keep in mind there are only 2 input tubes so maintenance is at a minimum. So really not a big deal.

Cheers,

-Chris

the_kid

Owner
Chris,
Thanks for your comments. Yes, the Quads sound amazing with the NAD amp. I wonder how they would sound with a more expensive integrated like the Unico that you have. I am somewhat skeptical about tubes in my system, as it involves some maintenance.
I am sure though that the upgrade from NAD to Unico must really be a couple of notches up.

milpai

What a nice setup! I l bet the Quads sound fantastic with the NAD running them. I have owned a couple of NAD Integrated amps and always enjoyed my time with them.

Cheers,

-Chris

the_kid

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