my bdp24 name comes from my favorite drumset finish and bass drum size, Black Diamond Pearl and 24".

:^) nice

Very interesting post Eric. Thanks for sharing with us here. Wanted to touch on a couple of your points.

I put the bottom pair raised up so the middle of the panel was 36" off the floor, with the upper panel right above the bottom, almost touching.
My single pair are 27 inches off the ground. That puts the middle of the panels at 42" high. They are pointed straight and angled at my shoulders in that room.
They are on Arcici black stands which sit on the black concrete bricks. A total WAF design........

Many found the very top of the speaker lacking (including Mark Levinson, who added a Decca tweeter to the stacked panels in his HDQ loudspeaker), so John did some measuring (he was an old-school EE type). He attributed the falling response to the narrow strip in the middle of the tweeter panel. Everyone thinks the 57 is a two-way design, but it's not, it's a three way. The highest frequencies emanate from only the very center of the tweeter panel, which because of it's smaller radiating surface doesn't provide as much output as the rest of the tweeter panel does for the lower highs. So John altered the x/o, boosting the output of the ultra-highs, which elevates and extends the high end of the speaker.
Interesting comment about Mark Levinson. So I was thinking about this one because it comes up a lot like the bass bottom octave issue.
I have gone through a bunch of amps with the 57's including Quads' own amp/preamp combo (SS). None of the SS amps allowed me to get away without having to add in an external tweeter.
I was using an external dome tweeter to which you could add or take away resistors. You tuned it by - adding resistors (it became less prominent) or removing resistors (to make it more noticeable) This tweeter actually worked really well with the DM70's, Their ESL panel is a thin design, and especially if they are placed on the floor, the speaker is not high enough to your ears.
Here is a pic of the B&W DM70 ESL speaker with that external tweeter I was using.

B&W DM70 w/ext Tweeter

It helped.

It is not until I decided one day to just try my RM9 with the 57's - very carefully to not damage them - that I heard some magic happen. This got me very curious, I did research and this is what led me to Roger's RM10. I had no idea at the time that the RM10 he developed was done so with 57's. The speaker and its role in the RM10 amp design is discussed in the RM10 owners manual. But what did Roger in using the Quad 57 as his model for the RM10, do to that amp, that no longer requires me to use an external tweeter ? That is the Question for me ? I am really happy with the HF output with the RM10. I also believe the height I have them at - 42 inches at the mid panel - has something to do with this as well.

I listen to a lot of music with vocals, and the Quads are still unequalled at reproducing them.
Baroque is my most listened to Classical, also well served by Quads. But they just don't cut it with AC/DC, at least not for long!
Baroque

About an hour long. Those reading if you let this play on your computer in the background as you do other stuff. At or away from your computer. I bet you will probably be in a better frame of mind by the end.

Your good results with nearfield subs has me interested in trying it myself Chris. I'm going to put the OB's by the speakers and the sealed Rythmiks by the listening position. I'll let you know how it works for me!---Eric.
Really looking forward to hearing about how it goes.

Cheers Chris

ct0517 November 11, 2015 05:47

my bdp24 name comes from my favorite drumset finish and bass drum size, Black Diamond Pearl and 24".

:^) nice

Very interesting post Eric. Thanks for sharing with us here. Wanted to touch on a couple of your points.

I put the bottom pair raised up so the middle of the panel was 36" off the floor, with the upper panel right above the bottom, almost touching.
My single pair are 27 inches off the ground. That puts the middle of the panels at 42" high. They are pointed straight and angled at my shoulders in that room.
They are on Arcici black stands which sit on the black concrete bricks. A total WAF design........

Many found the very top of the speaker lacking (including Mark Levinson, who added a Decca tweeter to the stacked panels in his HDQ loudspeaker), so John did some measuring (he was an old-school EE type). He attributed the falling response to the narrow strip in the middle of the tweeter panel. Everyone thinks the 57 is a two-way design, but it's not, it's a three way. The highest frequencies emanate from only the very center of the tweeter panel, which because of it's smaller radiating surface doesn't provide as much output as the rest of the tweeter panel does for the lower highs. So John altered the x/o, boosting the output of the ultra-highs, which elevates and extends the high end of the speaker.
Interesting comment about Mark Levinson. So I was thinking about this one because it comes up a lot like the bass bottom octave issue.
I have gone through a bunch of amps with the 57's including Quads' own amp/preamp combo (SS). None of the SS amps allowed me to get away without having to add in an external tweeter.
I was using an external dome tweeter to which you could add or take away resistors. You tuned it by - adding resistors (it became less prominent) or removing resistors (to make it more noticeable) This tweeter actually worked really well with the DM70's, Their ESL panel is a thin design, and especially if they are placed on the floor, the speaker is not high enough to your ears.
Here is a pic of the B&W DM70 ESL speaker with that external tweeter I was using.

B&W DM70 w/ext Tweeter

It helped.

It is not until I decided one day to just try my RM9 with the 57's - very carefully to not damage them - that I heard some magic happen. This got me very curious, I did research and this is what led me to Roger's RM10. I had no idea at the time that the RM10 he developed was done so with 57's. The speaker and its role in the RM10 amp design is discussed in the RM10 owners manual. But what did Roger in using the Quad 57 as his model for the RM10, do to that amp, that no longer requires me to use an external tweeter ? That is the Question for me ? I am really happy with the HF output with the RM10. I also believe the height I have them at - 42 inches at the mid panel - has something to do with this as well.

I listen to a lot of music with vocals, and the Quads are still unequalled at reproducing them.
Baroque is my most listened to Classical, also well served by Quads. But they just don't cut it with AC/DC, at least not for long!
Baroque

About an hour long. Those reading if you let this play on your computer in the background as you do other stuff. At or away from your computer. I bet you will probably be in a better frame of mind by the end.

Your good results with nearfield subs has me interested in trying it myself Chris. I'm going to put the OB's by the speakers and the sealed Rythmiks by the listening position. I'll let you know how it works for me!---Eric.
Really looking forward to hearing about how it goes.

Cheers Chris

ct0517 November 11, 2015 05:47

my bdp24 name comes from my favorite drumset finish and bass drum size, Black Diamond Pearl and 24".

:^) nice

Very interesting post Eric. Thanks for sharing with us here. Wanted to touch on a couple of your points.

I put the bottom pair raised up so the middle of the panel was 36" off the floor, with the upper panel right above the bottom, almost touching.
My single pair are 27 inches off the ground. That puts the middle of the panels at 42" high. They are pointed straight and angled at my shoulders in that room.
They are on Arcici black stands which sit on the black concrete bricks. A total WAF design........

Many found the very top of the speaker lacking (including Mark Levinson, who added a Decca tweeter to the stacked panels in his HDQ loudspeaker), so John did some measuring (he was an old-school EE type). He attributed the falling response to the narrow strip in the middle of the tweeter panel. Everyone thinks the 57 is a two-way design, but it's not, it's a three way. The highest frequencies emanate from only the very center of the tweeter panel, which because of it's smaller radiating surface doesn't provide as much output as the rest of the tweeter panel does for the lower highs. So John altered the x/o, boosting the output of the ultra-highs, which elevates and extends the high end of the speaker.
Interesting comment about Mark Levinson. So I was thinking about this one because it comes up a lot like the bass bottom octave issue.
I have gone through a bunch of amps with the 57's including Quads' own amp/preamp combo (SS). None of the SS amps allowed me to get away without having to add in an external tweeter.
I was using an external dome tweeter to which you could add or take away resistors. You tuned it by - adding resistors (it became less prominent) or removing resistors (to make it more noticeable) This tweeter actually worked really well with the DM70's, Their ESL panel is a thin design, and especially if they are placed on the floor, the speaker is not high enough to your ears.
Here is a pic of the B&W DM70 ESL speaker with that external tweeter I was using.

B&W DM70 w/ext Tweeter

It helped.

It is not until I decided one day to just try my RM9 with the 57's - very carefully to not damage them - that I heard some magic happen. This got me very curious, I did research and this is what led me to Roger's RM10. I had no idea at the time that the RM10 he developed was done so with 57's. The speaker and its role in the RM10 amp design is discussed in the RM10 owners manual. But what did Roger in using the Quad 57 as his model for the RM10, do to that amp, that no longer requires me to use an external tweeter ? That is the Question for me ? I am really happy with the HF output with the RM10. I also believe the height I have them at - 42 inches at the mid panel - has something to do with this as well.

I listen to a lot of music with vocals, and the Quads are still unequalled at reproducing them.
Baroque is my most listened to Classical, also well served by Quads. But they just don't cut it with AC/DC, at least not for long!
Baroque

About an hour long. Those reading if you let this play on your computer in the background as you do other stuff. At or away from your computer. I bet you will probably be in a better frame of mind by the end.

Your good results with nearfield subs has me interested in trying it myself Chris. I'm going to put the OB's by the speakers and the sealed Rythmiks by the listening position. I'll let you know how it works for me!---Eric.
Really looking forward to hearing about how it goes.

Cheers Chris

ct0517 November 11, 2015 05:47

my bdp24 name comes from my favorite drumset finish and bass drum size, Black Diamond Pearl and 24".

:^) nice

Very interesting post Eric. Thanks for sharing with us here. Wanted to touch on a couple of your points.

I put the bottom pair raised up so the middle of the panel was 36" off the floor, with the upper panel right above the bottom, almost touching.
My single pair are 27 inches off the ground. That puts the middle of the panels at 42" high. They are pointed straight and angled at my shoulders in that room.
They are on Arcici black stands which sit on the black concrete bricks. A total WAF design........

Many found the very top of the speaker lacking (including Mark Levinson, who added a Decca tweeter to the stacked panels in his HDQ loudspeaker), so John did some measuring (he was an old-school EE type). He attributed the falling response to the narrow strip in the middle of the tweeter panel. Everyone thinks the 57 is a two-way design, but it's not, it's a three way. The highest frequencies emanate from only the very center of the tweeter panel, which because of it's smaller radiating surface doesn't provide as much output as the rest of the tweeter panel does for the lower highs. So John altered the x/o, boosting the output of the ultra-highs, which elevates and extends the high end of the speaker.
Interesting comment about Mark Levinson. So I was thinking about this one because it comes up a lot like the bass bottom octave issue.
I have gone through a bunch of amps with the 57's including Quads' own amp/preamp combo (SS). None of the SS amps allowed me to get away without having to add in an external tweeter.
I was using an external dome tweeter to which you could add or take away resistors. You tuned it by - adding resistors (it became less prominent) or removing resistors (to make it more noticeable) This tweeter actually worked really well with the DM70's, Their ESL panel is a thin design, and especially if they are placed on the floor, the speaker is not high enough to your ears.
Here is a pic of the B&W DM70 ESL speaker with that external tweeter I was using.

B&W DM70 w/ext Tweeter

It helped.

It is not until I decided one day to just try my RM9 with the 57's - very carefully to not damage them - that I heard some magic happen. This got me very curious, I did research and this is what led me to Roger's RM10. I had no idea at the time that the RM10 he developed was done so with 57's. The speaker and its role in the RM10 amp design is discussed in the RM10 owners manual. But what did Roger in using the Quad 57 as his model for the RM10, do to that amp, that no longer requires me to use an external tweeter ? That is the Question for me ? I am really happy with the HF output with the RM10. I also believe the height I have them at - 42 inches at the mid panel - has something to do with this as well.

I listen to a lot of music with vocals, and the Quads are still unequalled at reproducing them.
Baroque is my most listened to Classical, also well served by Quads. But they just don't cut it with AC/DC, at least not for long!
Baroque

About an hour long. Those reading if you let this play on your computer in the background as you do other stuff. At or away from your computer. I bet you will probably be in a better frame of mind by the end.

Your good results with nearfield subs has me interested in trying it myself Chris. I'm going to put the OB's by the speakers and the sealed Rythmiks by the listening position. I'll let you know how it works for me!---Eric.
Really looking forward to hearing about how it goes.

Cheers Chris

ct0517 November 11, 2015 05:47

my bdp24 name comes from my favorite drumset finish and bass drum size, Black Diamond Pearl and 24".

:^) nice

Very interesting post Eric. Thanks for sharing with us here. Wanted to touch on a couple of your points.

I put the bottom pair raised up so the middle of the panel was 36" off the floor, with the upper panel right above the bottom, almost touching.
My single pair are 27 inches off the ground. That puts the middle of the panels at 42" high. They are pointed straight and angled at my shoulders in that room.
They are on Arcici black stands which sit on the black concrete bricks. A total WAF design........

Many found the very top of the speaker lacking (including Mark Levinson, who added a Decca tweeter to the stacked panels in his HDQ loudspeaker), so John did some measuring (he was an old-school EE type). He attributed the falling response to the narrow strip in the middle of the tweeter panel. Everyone thinks the 57 is a two-way design, but it's not, it's a three way. The highest frequencies emanate from only the very center of the tweeter panel, which because of it's smaller radiating surface doesn't provide as much output as the rest of the tweeter panel does for the lower highs. So John altered the x/o, boosting the output of the ultra-highs, which elevates and extends the high end of the speaker.
Interesting comment about Mark Levinson. So I was thinking about this one because it comes up a lot like the bass bottom octave issue.
I have gone through a bunch of amps with the 57's including Quads' own amp/preamp combo (SS). None of the SS amps allowed me to get away without having to add in an external tweeter.
I was using an external dome tweeter to which you could add or take away resistors. You tuned it by - adding resistors (it became less prominent) or removing resistors (to make it more noticeable) This tweeter actually worked really well with the DM70's, Their ESL panel is a thin design, and especially if they are placed on the floor, the speaker is not high enough to your ears.
Here is a pic of the B&W DM70 ESL speaker with that external tweeter I was using.

B&W DM70 w/ext Tweeter

It helped.

It is not until I decided one day to just try my RM9 with the 57's - very carefully to not damage them - that I heard some magic happen. This got me very curious, I did research and this is what led me to Roger's RM10. I had no idea at the time that the RM10 he developed was done so with 57's. The speaker and its role in the RM10 amp design is discussed in the RM10 owners manual. But what did Roger in using the Quad 57 as his model for the RM10, do to that amp, that no longer requires me to use an external tweeter ? That is the Question for me ? I am really happy with the HF output with the RM10. I also believe the height I have them at - 42 inches at the mid panel - has something to do with this as well.

I listen to a lot of music with vocals, and the Quads are still unequalled at reproducing them.
Baroque is my most listened to Classical, also well served by Quads. But they just don't cut it with AC/DC, at least not for long!
Baroque

About an hour long. Those reading if you let this play on your computer in the background as you do other stuff. At or away from your computer. I bet you will probably be in a better frame of mind by the end.

Your good results with nearfield subs has me interested in trying it myself Chris. I'm going to put the OB's by the speakers and the sealed Rythmiks by the listening position. I'll let you know how it works for me!---Eric.
Really looking forward to hearing about how it goes.

Cheers Chris

ct0517 November 11, 2015 05:47

my bdp24 name comes from my favorite drumset finish and bass drum size, Black Diamond Pearl and 24".

:^) nice

Very interesting post Eric. Thanks for sharing with us here. Wanted to touch on a couple of your points.

I put the bottom pair raised up so the middle of the panel was 36" off the floor, with the upper panel right above the bottom, almost touching.
My single pair are 27 inches off the ground. That puts the middle of the panels at 42" high. They are pointed straight and angled at my shoulders in that room.
They are on Arcici black stands which sit on the black concrete bricks. A total WAF design........

Many found the very top of the speaker lacking (including Mark Levinson, who added a Decca tweeter to the stacked panels in his HDQ loudspeaker), so John did some measuring (he was an old-school EE type). He attributed the falling response to the narrow strip in the middle of the tweeter panel. Everyone thinks the 57 is a two-way design, but it's not, it's a three way. The highest frequencies emanate from only the very center of the tweeter panel, which because of it's smaller radiating surface doesn't provide as much output as the rest of the tweeter panel does for the lower highs. So John altered the x/o, boosting the output of the ultra-highs, which elevates and extends the high end of the speaker.
Interesting comment about Mark Levinson. So I was thinking about this one because it comes up a lot like the bass bottom octave issue.
I have gone through a bunch of amps with the 57's including Quads' own amp/preamp combo (SS). None of the SS amps allowed me to get away without having to add in an external tweeter.
I was using an external dome tweeter to which you could add or take away resistors. You tuned it by - adding resistors (it became less prominent) or removing resistors (to make it more noticeable) This tweeter actually worked really well with the DM70's, Their ESL panel is a thin design, and especially if they are placed on the floor, the speaker is not high enough to your ears.
Here is a pic of the B&W DM70 ESL speaker with that external tweeter I was using.

B&W DM70 w/ext Tweeter

It helped.

It is not until I decided one day to just try my RM9 with the 57's - very carefully to not damage them - that I heard some magic happen. This got me very curious, I did research and this is what led me to Roger's RM10. I had no idea at the time that the RM10 he developed was done so with 57's. The speaker and its role in the RM10 amp design is discussed in the RM10 owners manual. But what did Roger in using the Quad 57 as his model for the RM10, do to that amp, that no longer requires me to use an external tweeter ? That is the Question for me ? I am really happy with the HF output with the RM10. I also believe the height I have them at - 42 inches at the mid panel - has something to do with this as well.

I listen to a lot of music with vocals, and the Quads are still unequalled at reproducing them.
Baroque is my most listened to Classical, also well served by Quads. But they just don't cut it with AC/DC, at least not for long!
Baroque

About an hour long. Those reading if you let this play on your computer in the background as you do other stuff. At or away from your computer. I bet you will probably be in a better frame of mind by the end.

Your good results with nearfield subs has me interested in trying it myself Chris. I'm going to put the OB's by the speakers and the sealed Rythmiks by the listening position. I'll let you know how it works for me!---Eric.
Really looking forward to hearing about how it goes.

Cheers Chris

ct0517 November 11, 2015 05:47

Chris, my bdp24 name comes from my favorite drumset finish and bass drum size, Black Diamond Pearl and 24". I started using it when selling vintage drums (1920's-early 70's) on ebay in the late 90's (964 feedbacks, 100% positive!), and have used it ever since.

I had a woodworker friend of mine (Pete Curry, currently playing bass in the instrumental band Los Straitjackets---we played together in The Hillbilly Soul Surfers in the 90's) make me a pair of stands for stacking Quads, three glued-together layers of 3/4" MDF (2-1/4" thick!) on either side of each pair of panels. I looked at all the different stacking ideas and stands, and came up with my own version. I put the bottom pair raised up so the middle of the panel was 36" off the floor, with the upper panel right above the bottom, almost touching. That way a seated listener would not be looking "down" on the performance (I don't like the balcony perspective either), and a standing listener would hear the upper pair pretty much as the seated listener heard the bottom pair. I made the stands almost 8 feet tall (they are VERY heavy), putting spikes on top (to anchor the stands to the ceiling!) as well as on the bottom. I don't stack anymore, preferring a single on the old Arcici stand.

Almost all 57's need to be reconditioned/repaired, including mine. I bought three pair locally, and took them all to John Koval in Orange, California. John made a name for himself in the 80's when he designed a mod for the 57, which was pretty popular amongst non-purist Quad owners. Many found the very top of the speaker lacking (including Mark Levinson, who added a Decca tweeter to the stacked panels in his HDQ loudspeaker), so John did some measuring (he was an old-school EE type). He attributed the falling response to the narrow strip in the middle of the tweeter panel. Everyone thinks the 57 is a two-way design, but it's not, it's a three way. The highest frequencies emanate from only the very center of the tweeter panel, which because of it's smaller radiating surface doesn't provide as much output as the rest of the tweeter panel does for the lower highs. So John altered the x/o, boosting the output of the ultra-highs, which elevates and extends the high end of the speaker. He didn't tell me that, and he potted his mod in resin so no one could figure it out, but I deduced all of this from what he said to me during our conversations and from what he wrote in his literature.

I don't have the A-S M60's anymore, and the Quads are packed away for now. In fact, everything is box up, as I'm moving up to Portland Oregon in a few weeks. I'm hoping to find a place with a big enough room that I can have all my panels set up (the ET LFT-8b's, Quads, and Tympani IV's), along with the OB and sealed subs. Or at least big enough that I can put the ones not in use against a wall (Ivor be damned!), and alternate between them. I'll have to take pics after I'm up and running, and post them. I've never taken pics of my stuff, as I've been kind of an isolated audiophile (VERY few musicians share my interest in Hi-Fi, listening through and to absolute garbage), connected to the community only through print mags and dealers (Brooks Berdan, primarily) until fairly recently. I am not happy I only learned of Audiogon about a year ago !

The RM-10 is cheap enough (a couple have sold here in the past year for around $1500, iirc) that I may get one for the Quads. It's definitely THE amp for them. I listen to a lot of music with vocals, and the Quads are still unequalled at reproducing them. Baroque is my most listened to Classical, also well served by Quads. But they just don't cut it with AC/DC, at least not for long!

Your good results with nearfield subs has me interested in trying it myself Chris. I'm going to put the OB's by the speakers and the sealed Rythmiks by the listening position. I'll let you know how it works for me!---Eric.

bdp24 November 10, 2015 01:39

Chris, my bdp24 name comes from my favorite drumset finish and bass drum size, Black Diamond Pearl and 24". I started using it when selling vintage drums (1920's-early 70's) on ebay in the late 90's (964 feedbacks, 100% positive!), and have used it ever since.

I had a woodworker friend of mine (Pete Curry, currently playing bass in the instrumental band Los Straitjackets---we played together in The Hillbilly Soul Surfers in the 90's) make me a pair of stands for stacking Quads, three glued-together layers of 3/4" MDF (2-1/4" thick!) on either side of each pair of panels. I looked at all the different stacking ideas and stands, and came up with my own version. I put the bottom pair raised up so the middle of the panel was 36" off the floor, with the upper panel right above the bottom, almost touching. That way a seated listener would not be looking "down" on the performance (I don't like the balcony perspective either), and a standing listener would hear the upper pair pretty much as the seated listener heard the bottom pair. I made the stands almost 8 feet tall (they are VERY heavy), putting spikes on top (to anchor the stands to the ceiling!) as well as on the bottom. I don't stack anymore, preferring a single on the old Arcici stand.

Almost all 57's need to be reconditioned/repaired, including mine. I bought three pair locally, and took them all to John Koval in Orange, California. John made a name for himself in the 80's when he designed a mod for the 57, which was pretty popular amongst non-purist Quad owners. Many found the very top of the speaker lacking (including Mark Levinson, who added a Decca tweeter to the stacked panels in his HDQ loudspeaker), so John did some measuring (he was an old-school EE type). He attributed the falling response to the narrow strip in the middle of the tweeter panel. Everyone thinks the 57 is a two-way design, but it's not, it's a three way. The highest frequencies emanate from only the very center of the tweeter panel, which because of it's smaller radiating surface doesn't provide as much output as the rest of the tweeter panel does for the lower highs. So John altered the x/o, boosting the output of the ultra-highs, which elevates and extends the high end of the speaker. He didn't tell me that, and he potted his mod in resin so no one could figure it out, but I deduced all of this from what he said to me during our conversations and from what he wrote in his literature.

I don't have the A-S M60's anymore, and the Quads are packed away for now. In fact, everything is box up, as I'm moving up to Portland Oregon in a few weeks. I'm hoping to find a place with a big enough room that I can have all my panels set up (the ET LFT-8b's, Quads, and Tympani IV's), along with the OB and sealed subs. Or at least big enough that I can put the ones not in use against a wall (Ivor be damned!), and alternate between them. I'll have to take pics after I'm up and running, and post them. I've never taken pics of my stuff, as I've been kind of an isolated audiophile (VERY few musicians share my interest in Hi-Fi, listening through and to absolute garbage), connected to the community only through print mags and dealers (Brooks Berdan, primarily) until fairly recently. I am not happy I only learned of Audiogon about a year ago !

The RM-10 is cheap enough (a couple have sold here in the past year for around $1500, iirc) that I may get one for the Quads. It's definitely THE amp for them. I listen to a lot of music with vocals, and the Quads are still unequalled at reproducing them. Baroque is my most listened to Classical, also well served by Quads. But they just don't cut it with AC/DC, at least not for long!

Your good results with nearfield subs has me interested in trying it myself Chris. I'm going to put the OB's by the speakers and the sealed Rythmiks by the listening position. I'll let you know how it works for me!---Eric.

bdp24 November 10, 2015 01:39

Chris, my bdp24 name comes from my favorite drumset finish and bass drum size, Black Diamond Pearl and 24". I started using it when selling vintage drums (1920's-early 70's) on ebay in the late 90's (964 feedbacks, 100% positive!), and have used it ever since.

I had a woodworker friend of mine (Pete Curry, currently playing bass in the instrumental band Los Straitjackets---we played together in The Hillbilly Soul Surfers in the 90's) make me a pair of stands for stacking Quads, three glued-together layers of 3/4" MDF (2-1/4" thick!) on either side of each pair of panels. I looked at all the different stacking ideas and stands, and came up with my own version. I put the bottom pair raised up so the middle of the panel was 36" off the floor, with the upper panel right above the bottom, almost touching. That way a seated listener would not be looking "down" on the performance (I don't like the balcony perspective either), and a standing listener would hear the upper pair pretty much as the seated listener heard the bottom pair. I made the stands almost 8 feet tall (they are VERY heavy), putting spikes on top (to anchor the stands to the ceiling!) as well as on the bottom. I don't stack anymore, preferring a single on the old Arcici stand.

Almost all 57's need to be reconditioned/repaired, including mine. I bought three pair locally, and took them all to John Koval in Orange, California. John made a name for himself in the 80's when he designed a mod for the 57, which was pretty popular amongst non-purist Quad owners. Many found the very top of the speaker lacking (including Mark Levinson, who added a Decca tweeter to the stacked panels in his HDQ loudspeaker), so John did some measuring (he was an old-school EE type). He attributed the falling response to the narrow strip in the middle of the tweeter panel. Everyone thinks the 57 is a two-way design, but it's not, it's a three way. The highest frequencies emanate from only the very center of the tweeter panel, which because of it's smaller radiating surface doesn't provide as much output as the rest of the tweeter panel does for the lower highs. So John altered the x/o, boosting the output of the ultra-highs, which elevates and extends the high end of the speaker. He didn't tell me that, and he potted his mod in resin so no one could figure it out, but I deduced all of this from what he said to me during our conversations and from what he wrote in his literature.

I don't have the A-S M60's anymore, and the Quads are packed away for now. In fact, everything is box up, as I'm moving up to Portland Oregon in a few weeks. I'm hoping to find a place with a big enough room that I can have all my panels set up (the ET LFT-8b's, Quads, and Tympani IV's), along with the OB and sealed subs. Or at least big enough that I can put the ones not in use against a wall (Ivor be damned!), and alternate between them. I'll have to take pics after I'm up and running, and post them. I've never taken pics of my stuff, as I've been kind of an isolated audiophile (VERY few musicians share my interest in Hi-Fi, listening through and to absolute garbage), connected to the community only through print mags and dealers (Brooks Berdan, primarily) until fairly recently. I am not happy I only learned of Audiogon about a year ago !

The RM-10 is cheap enough (a couple have sold here in the past year for around $1500, iirc) that I may get one for the Quads. It's definitely THE amp for them. I listen to a lot of music with vocals, and the Quads are still unequalled at reproducing them. Baroque is my most listened to Classical, also well served by Quads. But they just don't cut it with AC/DC, at least not for long!

Your good results with nearfield subs has me interested in trying it myself Chris. I'm going to put the OB's by the speakers and the sealed Rythmiks by the listening position. I'll let you know how it works for me!---Eric.

bdp24 November 10, 2015 01:39

Chris, my bdp24 name comes from my favorite drumset finish and bass drum size, Black Diamond Pearl and 24". I started using it when selling vintage drums (1920's-early 70's) on ebay in the late 90's (964 feedbacks, 100% positive!), and have used it ever since.

I had a woodworker friend of mine (Pete Curry, currently playing bass in the instrumental band Los Straitjackets---we played together in The Hillbilly Soul Surfers in the 90's) make me a pair of stands for stacking Quads, three glued-together layers of 3/4" MDF (2-1/4" thick!) on either side of each pair of panels. I looked at all the different stacking ideas and stands, and came up with my own version. I put the bottom pair raised up so the middle of the panel was 36" off the floor, with the upper panel right above the bottom, almost touching. That way a seated listener would not be looking "down" on the performance (I don't like the balcony perspective either), and a standing listener would hear the upper pair pretty much as the seated listener heard the bottom pair. I made the stands almost 8 feet tall (they are VERY heavy), putting spikes on top (to anchor the stands to the ceiling!) as well as on the bottom. I don't stack anymore, preferring a single on the old Arcici stand.

Almost all 57's need to be reconditioned/repaired, including mine. I bought three pair locally, and took them all to John Koval in Orange, California. John made a name for himself in the 80's when he designed a mod for the 57, which was pretty popular amongst non-purist Quad owners. Many found the very top of the speaker lacking (including Mark Levinson, who added a Decca tweeter to the stacked panels in his HDQ loudspeaker), so John did some measuring (he was an old-school EE type). He attributed the falling response to the narrow strip in the middle of the tweeter panel. Everyone thinks the 57 is a two-way design, but it's not, it's a three way. The highest frequencies emanate from only the very center of the tweeter panel, which because of it's smaller radiating surface doesn't provide as much output as the rest of the tweeter panel does for the lower highs. So John altered the x/o, boosting the output of the ultra-highs, which elevates and extends the high end of the speaker. He didn't tell me that, and he potted his mod in resin so no one could figure it out, but I deduced all of this from what he said to me during our conversations and from what he wrote in his literature.

I don't have the A-S M60's anymore, and the Quads are packed away for now. In fact, everything is box up, as I'm moving up to Portland Oregon in a few weeks. I'm hoping to find a place with a big enough room that I can have all my panels set up (the ET LFT-8b's, Quads, and Tympani IV's), along with the OB and sealed subs. Or at least big enough that I can put the ones not in use against a wall (Ivor be damned!), and alternate between them. I'll have to take pics after I'm up and running, and post them. I've never taken pics of my stuff, as I've been kind of an isolated audiophile (VERY few musicians share my interest in Hi-Fi, listening through and to absolute garbage), connected to the community only through print mags and dealers (Brooks Berdan, primarily) until fairly recently. I am not happy I only learned of Audiogon about a year ago !

The RM-10 is cheap enough (a couple have sold here in the past year for around $1500, iirc) that I may get one for the Quads. It's definitely THE amp for them. I listen to a lot of music with vocals, and the Quads are still unequalled at reproducing them. Baroque is my most listened to Classical, also well served by Quads. But they just don't cut it with AC/DC, at least not for long!

Your good results with nearfield subs has me interested in trying it myself Chris. I'm going to put the OB's by the speakers and the sealed Rythmiks by the listening position. I'll let you know how it works for me!---Eric.

bdp24 November 10, 2015 01:39

Chris, my bdp24 name comes from my favorite drumset finish and bass drum size, Black Diamond Pearl and 24". I started using it when selling vintage drums (1920's-early 70's) on ebay in the late 90's (964 feedbacks, 100% positive!), and have used it ever since.

I had a woodworker friend of mine (Pete Curry, currently playing bass in the instrumental band Los Straitjackets---we played together in The Hillbilly Soul Surfers in the 90's) make me a pair of stands for stacking Quads, three glued-together layers of 3/4" MDF (2-1/4" thick!) on either side of each pair of panels. I looked at all the different stacking ideas and stands, and came up with my own version. I put the bottom pair raised up so the middle of the panel was 36" off the floor, with the upper panel right above the bottom, almost touching. That way a seated listener would not be looking "down" on the performance (I don't like the balcony perspective either), and a standing listener would hear the upper pair pretty much as the seated listener heard the bottom pair. I made the stands almost 8 feet tall (they are VERY heavy), putting spikes on top (to anchor the stands to the ceiling!) as well as on the bottom. I don't stack anymore, preferring a single on the old Arcici stand.

Almost all 57's need to be reconditioned/repaired, including mine. I bought three pair locally, and took them all to John Koval in Orange, California. John made a name for himself in the 80's when he designed a mod for the 57, which was pretty popular amongst non-purist Quad owners. Many found the very top of the speaker lacking (including Mark Levinson, who added a Decca tweeter to the stacked panels in his HDQ loudspeaker), so John did some measuring (he was an old-school EE type). He attributed the falling response to the narrow strip in the middle of the tweeter panel. Everyone thinks the 57 is a two-way design, but it's not, it's a three way. The highest frequencies emanate from only the very center of the tweeter panel, which because of it's smaller radiating surface doesn't provide as much output as the rest of the tweeter panel does for the lower highs. So John altered the x/o, boosting the output of the ultra-highs, which elevates and extends the high end of the speaker. He didn't tell me that, and he potted his mod in resin so no one could figure it out, but I deduced all of this from what he said to me during our conversations and from what he wrote in his literature.

I don't have the A-S M60's anymore, and the Quads are packed away for now. In fact, everything is box up, as I'm moving up to Portland Oregon in a few weeks. I'm hoping to find a place with a big enough room that I can have all my panels set up (the ET LFT-8b's, Quads, and Tympani IV's), along with the OB and sealed subs. Or at least big enough that I can put the ones not in use against a wall (Ivor be damned!), and alternate between them. I'll have to take pics after I'm up and running, and post them. I've never taken pics of my stuff, as I've been kind of an isolated audiophile (VERY few musicians share my interest in Hi-Fi, listening through and to absolute garbage), connected to the community only through print mags and dealers (Brooks Berdan, primarily) until fairly recently. I am not happy I only learned of Audiogon about a year ago !

The RM-10 is cheap enough (a couple have sold here in the past year for around $1500, iirc) that I may get one for the Quads. It's definitely THE amp for them. I listen to a lot of music with vocals, and the Quads are still unequalled at reproducing them. Baroque is my most listened to Classical, also well served by Quads. But they just don't cut it with AC/DC, at least not for long!

Your good results with nearfield subs has me interested in trying it myself Chris. I'm going to put the OB's by the speakers and the sealed Rythmiks by the listening position. I'll let you know how it works for me!---Eric.

bdp24 November 10, 2015 01:39

Chris, my bdp24 name comes from my favorite drumset finish and bass drum size, Black Diamond Pearl and 24". I started using it when selling vintage drums (1920's-early 70's) on ebay in the late 90's (964 feedbacks, 100% positive!), and have used it ever since.

I had a woodworker friend of mine (Pete Curry, currently playing bass in the instrumental band Los Straitjackets---we played together in The Hillbilly Soul Surfers in the 90's) make me a pair of stands for stacking Quads, three glued-together layers of 3/4" MDF (2-1/4" thick!) on either side of each pair of panels. I looked at all the different stacking ideas and stands, and came up with my own version. I put the bottom pair raised up so the middle of the panel was 36" off the floor, with the upper panel right above the bottom, almost touching. That way a seated listener would not be looking "down" on the performance (I don't like the balcony perspective either), and a standing listener would hear the upper pair pretty much as the seated listener heard the bottom pair. I made the stands almost 8 feet tall (they are VERY heavy), putting spikes on top (to anchor the stands to the ceiling!) as well as on the bottom. I don't stack anymore, preferring a single on the old Arcici stand.

Almost all 57's need to be reconditioned/repaired, including mine. I bought three pair locally, and took them all to John Koval in Orange, California. John made a name for himself in the 80's when he designed a mod for the 57, which was pretty popular amongst non-purist Quad owners. Many found the very top of the speaker lacking (including Mark Levinson, who added a Decca tweeter to the stacked panels in his HDQ loudspeaker), so John did some measuring (he was an old-school EE type). He attributed the falling response to the narrow strip in the middle of the tweeter panel. Everyone thinks the 57 is a two-way design, but it's not, it's a three way. The highest frequencies emanate from only the very center of the tweeter panel, which because of it's smaller radiating surface doesn't provide as much output as the rest of the tweeter panel does for the lower highs. So John altered the x/o, boosting the output of the ultra-highs, which elevates and extends the high end of the speaker. He didn't tell me that, and he potted his mod in resin so no one could figure it out, but I deduced all of this from what he said to me during our conversations and from what he wrote in his literature.

I don't have the A-S M60's anymore, and the Quads are packed away for now. In fact, everything is box up, as I'm moving up to Portland Oregon in a few weeks. I'm hoping to find a place with a big enough room that I can have all my panels set up (the ET LFT-8b's, Quads, and Tympani IV's), along with the OB and sealed subs. Or at least big enough that I can put the ones not in use against a wall (Ivor be damned!), and alternate between them. I'll have to take pics after I'm up and running, and post them. I've never taken pics of my stuff, as I've been kind of an isolated audiophile (VERY few musicians share my interest in Hi-Fi, listening through and to absolute garbage), connected to the community only through print mags and dealers (Brooks Berdan, primarily) until fairly recently. I am not happy I only learned of Audiogon about a year ago !

The RM-10 is cheap enough (a couple have sold here in the past year for around $1500, iirc) that I may get one for the Quads. It's definitely THE amp for them. I listen to a lot of music with vocals, and the Quads are still unequalled at reproducing them. Baroque is my most listened to Classical, also well served by Quads. But they just don't cut it with AC/DC, at least not for long!

Your good results with nearfield subs has me interested in trying it myself Chris. I'm going to put the OB's by the speakers and the sealed Rythmiks by the listening position. I'll let you know how it works for me!---Eric.

bdp24 November 10, 2015 01:39

Chris, my bdp24 name comes from my favorite drumset finish and bass drum size, Black Diamond Pearl and 24". I started using it when selling vintage drums (1920's-early 70's) on ebay in the late 90's (964 feedbacks, 100% positive!), and have used it ever since.

I had a woodworker friend of mine (Pete Curry, currently playing bass in the instrumental band Los Straitjackets---we played together in The Hillbilly Soul Surfers in the 90's) make me a pair of stands for stacking Quads, three glued-together layers of 3/4" MDF (2-1/4" thick!) on either side of each pair of panels. I looked at all the different stacking ideas and stands, and came up with my own version. I put the bottom pair raised up so the middle of the panel was 36" off the floor, with the upper panel right above the bottom, almost touching. That way a seated listener would not be looking "down" on the performance (I don't like the balcony perspective either), and a standing listener would hear the upper pair pretty much as the seated listener heard the bottom pair. I made the stands almost 8 feet tall (they are VERY heavy), putting spikes on top (to anchor the stands to the ceiling!) as well as on the bottom. I don't stack anymore, preferring a single on the old Arcici stand.

Almost all 57's need to be reconditioned/repaired, including mine. I bought three pair locally, and took them all to John Koval in Orange, California. John made a name for himself in the 80's when he designed a mod for the 57, which was pretty popular amongst non-purist Quad owners. Many found the very top of the speaker lacking (including Mark Levinson, who added a Decca tweeter to the stacked panels in his HDQ loudspeaker), so John did some measuring (he was an old-school EE type). He attributed the falling response to the narrow strip in the middle of the tweeter panel. Everyone thinks the 57 is a two-way design, but it's not, it's a three way. The highest frequencies emanate from only the very center of the tweeter panel, which because of it's smaller radiating surface doesn't provide as much output as the rest of the tweeter panel does for the lower highs. So John altered the x/o, boosting the output of the ultra-highs, which elevates and extends the high end of the speaker. He didn't tell me that, and he potted his mod in resin so no one could figure it out, but I deduced all of this from what he said to me during our conversations and from what he wrote in his literature.

I don't have the A-S M60's anymore, and the Quads are packed away for now. In fact, everything is box up, as I'm moving up to Portland Oregon in a few weeks. I'm hoping to find a place with a big enough room that I can have all my panels set up (the ET LFT-8b's, Quads, and Tympani IV's), along with the OB and sealed subs. Or at least big enough that I can put the ones not in use against a wall (Ivor be damned!), and alternate between them. I'll have to take pics after I'm up and running, and post them. I've never taken pics of my stuff, as I've been kind of an isolated audiophile (VERY few musicians share my interest in Hi-Fi, listening through and to absolute garbage), connected to the community only through print mags and dealers (Brooks Berdan, primarily) until fairly recently. I am not happy I only learned of Audiogon about a year ago !

The RM-10 is cheap enough (a couple have sold here in the past year for around $1500, iirc) that I may get one for the Quads. It's definitely THE amp for them. I listen to a lot of music with vocals, and the Quads are still unequalled at reproducing them. Baroque is my most listened to Classical, also well served by Quads. But they just don't cut it with AC/DC, at least not for long!

Your good results with nearfield subs has me interested in trying it myself Chris. I'm going to put the OB's by the speakers and the sealed Rythmiks by the listening position. I'll let you know how it works for me!---Eric.

bdp24 November 10, 2015 01:39

Chris, my bdp24 name comes from my favorite drumset finish and bass drum size, Black Diamond Pearl and 24". I started using it when selling vintage drums (1920's-early 70's) on ebay in the late 90's (964 feedbacks, 100% positive!), and have used it ever since.

I had a woodworker friend of mine (Pete Curry, currently playing bass in the instrumental band Los Straitjackets---we played together in The Hillbilly Soul Surfers in the 90's) make me a pair of stands for stacking Quads, three glued-together layers of 3/4" MDF (2-1/4" thick!) on either side of each pair of panels. I looked at all the different stacking ideas and stands, and came up with my own version. I put the bottom pair raised up so the middle of the panel was 36" off the floor, with the upper panel right above the bottom, almost touching. That way a seated listener would not be looking "down" on the performance (I don't like the balcony perspective either), and a standing listener would hear the upper pair pretty much as the seated listener heard the bottom pair. I made the stands almost 8 feet tall (they are VERY heavy), putting spikes on top (to anchor the stands to the ceiling!) as well as on the bottom. I don't stack anymore, preferring a single on the old Arcici stand.

Almost all 57's need to be reconditioned/repaired, including mine. I bought three pair locally, and took them all to John Koval in Orange, California. John made a name for himself in the 80's when he designed a mod for the 57, which was pretty popular amongst non-purist Quad owners. Many found the very top of the speaker lacking (including Mark Levinson, who added a Decca tweeter to the stacked panels in his HDQ loudspeaker), so John did some measuring (he was an old-school EE type). He attributed the falling response to the narrow strip in the middle of the tweeter panel. Everyone thinks the 57 is a two-way design, but it's not, it's a three way. The highest frequencies emanate from only the very center of the tweeter panel, which because of it's smaller radiating surface doesn't provide as much output as the rest of the tweeter panel does for the lower highs. So John altered the x/o, boosting the output of the ultra-highs, which elevates and extends the high end of the speaker. He didn't tell me that, and he potted his mod in resin so no one could figure it out, but I deduced all of this from what he said to me during our conversations and from what he wrote in his literature.

I don't have the A-S M60's anymore, and the Quads are packed away for now. In fact, everything is box up, as I'm moving up to Portland Oregon in a few weeks. I'm hoping to find a place with a big enough room that I can have all my panels set up (the ET LFT-8b's, Quads, and Tympani IV's), along with the OB and sealed subs. Or at least big enough that I can put the ones not in use against a wall (Ivor be damned!), and alternate between them. I'll have to take pics after I'm up and running, and post them. I've never taken pics of my stuff, as I've been kind of an isolated audiophile (VERY few musicians share my interest in Hi-Fi, listening through and to absolute garbage), connected to the community only through print mags and dealers (Brooks Berdan, primarily) until fairly recently. I am not happy I only learned of Audiogon about a year ago !

The RM-10 is cheap enough (a couple have sold here in the past year for around $1500, iirc) that I may get one for the Quads. It's definitely THE amp for them. I listen to a lot of music with vocals, and the Quads are still unequalled at reproducing them. Baroque is my most listened to Classical, also well served by Quads. But they just don't cut it with AC/DC, at least not for long!

Your good results with nearfield subs has me interested in trying it myself Chris. I'm going to put the OB's by the speakers and the sealed Rythmiks by the listening position. I'll let you know how it works for me!---Eric.

bdp24 November 10, 2015 01:39

This was all part of the previous post - if u can believe it. :^( So I made it separate.

Got my wish and was able play the role of Audiophile last Saturday with the Quads and Sub - using music to listen to my gear :^)

Couple music selections to help with set up and to test integration of sub with the 57's. All contain Female voices - coincidence ?

Patricia Barber - Companion - must be the live version. Whole album works but look out for the 2:38 mark of Let It Rain.
If you are still using the screens on the Quads - prepare for rattling and remove after. :^) I have this one in CD and 15 IPS tape format.
The bass output here affects both the Quads low and where the Sub kicks in at 50 hz. and is therefore an excellent spot to tested out the blending .

Once when this song was on in Room A - OTL's with previous 801's. The OTL manufacturer was sitting in my chair. It was louder than normal.
The OTL's were plugged into a spare 15 amp wall outlet - other amps not being used, were plugged into the dedicated outlets. When 2:38 came on there was the first bass note, then a momentary lapse of silence (a second), like a glitch. There was not enough juice for the amps to generate the bass notes ! The 801 bass drivers went silent for a second! A first time for him and me. More dedicated outlets went in after that on that part of the wall.

Cowboy Junkies - At the End of Paths Taken

Lorde - Hey, why listen to electronic low bass test tones on a cd, when you can hear real cool electronic music instead. And listen in this case to the lyrics as well , in order get an idea of where the younger generation's heads are at.

All three albums provide so much bass through the Quads 57 (seven feet out) and the Rm10 amp without the sub, that you may feel no more is required and are satisfied. This is the exact scenario you want when bringing in a sub. This is when the sub will prove its worth for the bottom octave only.

The sub is in nearfield crossed over at 50hz......
On the sub's volume dial - are positions that go from 1 -10 - it is set at "2". That is what a sub in nearfield does for you with the 57's in this room.

Quad 57 - Room B

ct0517 November 09, 2015 09:16

This was all part of the previous post - if u can believe it. :^( So I made it separate.

Got my wish and was able play the role of Audiophile last Saturday with the Quads and Sub - using music to listen to my gear :^)

Couple music selections to help with set up and to test integration of sub with the 57's. All contain Female voices - coincidence ?

Patricia Barber - Companion - must be the live version. Whole album works but look out for the 2:38 mark of Let It Rain.
If you are still using the screens on the Quads - prepare for rattling and remove after. :^) I have this one in CD and 15 IPS tape format.
The bass output here affects both the Quads low and where the Sub kicks in at 50 hz. and is therefore an excellent spot to tested out the blending .

Once when this song was on in Room A - OTL's with previous 801's. The OTL manufacturer was sitting in my chair. It was louder than normal.
The OTL's were plugged into a spare 15 amp wall outlet - other amps not being used, were plugged into the dedicated outlets. When 2:38 came on there was the first bass note, then a momentary lapse of silence (a second), like a glitch. There was not enough juice for the amps to generate the bass notes ! The 801 bass drivers went silent for a second! A first time for him and me. More dedicated outlets went in after that on that part of the wall.

Cowboy Junkies - At the End of Paths Taken

Lorde - Hey, why listen to electronic low bass test tones on a cd, when you can hear real cool electronic music instead. And listen in this case to the lyrics as well , in order get an idea of where the younger generation's heads are at.

All three albums provide so much bass through the Quads 57 (seven feet out) and the Rm10 amp without the sub, that you may feel no more is required and are satisfied. This is the exact scenario you want when bringing in a sub. This is when the sub will prove its worth for the bottom octave only.

The sub is in nearfield crossed over at 50hz......
On the sub's volume dial - are positions that go from 1 -10 - it is set at "2". That is what a sub in nearfield does for you with the 57's in this room.

Quad 57 - Room B

ct0517 November 09, 2015 09:16

This was all part of the previous post - if u can believe it. :^( So I made it separate.

Got my wish and was able play the role of Audiophile last Saturday with the Quads and Sub - using music to listen to my gear :^)

Couple music selections to help with set up and to test integration of sub with the 57's. All contain Female voices - coincidence ?

Patricia Barber - Companion - must be the live version. Whole album works but look out for the 2:38 mark of Let It Rain.
If you are still using the screens on the Quads - prepare for rattling and remove after. :^) I have this one in CD and 15 IPS tape format.
The bass output here affects both the Quads low and where the Sub kicks in at 50 hz. and is therefore an excellent spot to tested out the blending .

Once when this song was on in Room A - OTL's with previous 801's. The OTL manufacturer was sitting in my chair. It was louder than normal.
The OTL's were plugged into a spare 15 amp wall outlet - other amps not being used, were plugged into the dedicated outlets. When 2:38 came on there was the first bass note, then a momentary lapse of silence (a second), like a glitch. There was not enough juice for the amps to generate the bass notes ! The 801 bass drivers went silent for a second! A first time for him and me. More dedicated outlets went in after that on that part of the wall.

Cowboy Junkies - At the End of Paths Taken

Lorde - Hey, why listen to electronic low bass test tones on a cd, when you can hear real cool electronic music instead. And listen in this case to the lyrics as well , in order get an idea of where the younger generation's heads are at.

All three albums provide so much bass through the Quads 57 (seven feet out) and the Rm10 amp without the sub, that you may feel no more is required and are satisfied. This is the exact scenario you want when bringing in a sub. This is when the sub will prove its worth for the bottom octave only.

The sub is in nearfield crossed over at 50hz......
On the sub's volume dial - are positions that go from 1 -10 - it is set at "2". That is what a sub in nearfield does for you with the 57's in this room.

Quad 57 - Room B

ct0517 November 09, 2015 09:16

This was all part of the previous post - if u can believe it. :^( So I made it separate.

Got my wish and was able play the role of Audiophile last Saturday with the Quads and Sub - using music to listen to my gear :^)

Couple music selections to help with set up and to test integration of sub with the 57's. All contain Female voices - coincidence ?

Patricia Barber - Companion - must be the live version. Whole album works but look out for the 2:38 mark of Let It Rain.
If you are still using the screens on the Quads - prepare for rattling and remove after. :^) I have this one in CD and 15 IPS tape format.
The bass output here affects both the Quads low and where the Sub kicks in at 50 hz. and is therefore an excellent spot to tested out the blending .

Once when this song was on in Room A - OTL's with previous 801's. The OTL manufacturer was sitting in my chair. It was louder than normal.
The OTL's were plugged into a spare 15 amp wall outlet - other amps not being used, were plugged into the dedicated outlets. When 2:38 came on there was the first bass note, then a momentary lapse of silence (a second), like a glitch. There was not enough juice for the amps to generate the bass notes ! The 801 bass drivers went silent for a second! A first time for him and me. More dedicated outlets went in after that on that part of the wall.

Cowboy Junkies - At the End of Paths Taken

Lorde - Hey, why listen to electronic low bass test tones on a cd, when you can hear real cool electronic music instead. And listen in this case to the lyrics as well , in order get an idea of where the younger generation's heads are at.

All three albums provide so much bass through the Quads 57 (seven feet out) and the Rm10 amp without the sub, that you may feel no more is required and are satisfied. This is the exact scenario you want when bringing in a sub. This is when the sub will prove its worth for the bottom octave only.

The sub is in nearfield crossed over at 50hz......
On the sub's volume dial - are positions that go from 1 -10 - it is set at "2". That is what a sub in nearfield does for you with the 57's in this room.

Quad 57 - Room B

ct0517 November 09, 2015 09:16

This was all part of the previous post - if u can believe it. :^( So I made it separate.

Got my wish and was able play the role of Audiophile last Saturday with the Quads and Sub - using music to listen to my gear :^)

Couple music selections to help with set up and to test integration of sub with the 57's. All contain Female voices - coincidence ?

Patricia Barber - Companion - must be the live version. Whole album works but look out for the 2:38 mark of Let It Rain.
If you are still using the screens on the Quads - prepare for rattling and remove after. :^) I have this one in CD and 15 IPS tape format.
The bass output here affects both the Quads low and where the Sub kicks in at 50 hz. and is therefore an excellent spot to tested out the blending .

Once when this song was on in Room A - OTL's with previous 801's. The OTL manufacturer was sitting in my chair. It was louder than normal.
The OTL's were plugged into a spare 15 amp wall outlet - other amps not being used, were plugged into the dedicated outlets. When 2:38 came on there was the first bass note, then a momentary lapse of silence (a second), like a glitch. There was not enough juice for the amps to generate the bass notes ! The 801 bass drivers went silent for a second! A first time for him and me. More dedicated outlets went in after that on that part of the wall.

Cowboy Junkies - At the End of Paths Taken

Lorde - Hey, why listen to electronic low bass test tones on a cd, when you can hear real cool electronic music instead. And listen in this case to the lyrics as well , in order get an idea of where the younger generation's heads are at.

All three albums provide so much bass through the Quads 57 (seven feet out) and the Rm10 amp without the sub, that you may feel no more is required and are satisfied. This is the exact scenario you want when bringing in a sub. This is when the sub will prove its worth for the bottom octave only.

The sub is in nearfield crossed over at 50hz......
On the sub's volume dial - are positions that go from 1 -10 - it is set at "2". That is what a sub in nearfield does for you with the 57's in this room.

Quad 57 - Room B

ct0517 November 09, 2015 09:16

This was all part of the previous post - if u can believe it. :^( So I made it separate.

Got my wish and was able play the role of Audiophile last Saturday with the Quads and Sub - using music to listen to my gear :^)

Couple music selections to help with set up and to test integration of sub with the 57's. All contain Female voices - coincidence ?

Patricia Barber - Companion - must be the live version. Whole album works but look out for the 2:38 mark of Let It Rain.
If you are still using the screens on the Quads - prepare for rattling and remove after. :^) I have this one in CD and 15 IPS tape format.
The bass output here affects both the Quads low and where the Sub kicks in at 50 hz. and is therefore an excellent spot to tested out the blending .

Once when this song was on in Room A - OTL's with previous 801's. The OTL manufacturer was sitting in my chair. It was louder than normal.
The OTL's were plugged into a spare 15 amp wall outlet - other amps not being used, were plugged into the dedicated outlets. When 2:38 came on there was the first bass note, then a momentary lapse of silence (a second), like a glitch. There was not enough juice for the amps to generate the bass notes ! The 801 bass drivers went silent for a second! A first time for him and me. More dedicated outlets went in after that on that part of the wall.

Cowboy Junkies - At the End of Paths Taken

Lorde - Hey, why listen to electronic low bass test tones on a cd, when you can hear real cool electronic music instead. And listen in this case to the lyrics as well , in order get an idea of where the younger generation's heads are at.

All three albums provide so much bass through the Quads 57 (seven feet out) and the Rm10 amp without the sub, that you may feel no more is required and are satisfied. This is the exact scenario you want when bringing in a sub. This is when the sub will prove its worth for the bottom octave only.

The sub is in nearfield crossed over at 50hz......
On the sub's volume dial - are positions that go from 1 -10 - it is set at "2". That is what a sub in nearfield does for you with the 57's in this room.

Quad 57 - Room B

ct0517 November 09, 2015 09:16

This was all part of the previous post - if u can believe it. :^( So I made it separate.

Got my wish and was able play the role of Audiophile last Saturday with the Quads and Sub - using music to listen to my gear :^)

Couple music selections to help with set up and to test integration of sub with the 57's. All contain Female voices - coincidence ?

Patricia Barber - Companion - must be the live version. Whole album works but look out for the 2:38 mark of Let It Rain.
If you are still using the screens on the Quads - prepare for rattling and remove after. :^) I have this one in CD and 15 IPS tape format.
The bass output here affects both the Quads low and where the Sub kicks in at 50 hz. and is therefore an excellent spot to tested out the blending .

Once when this song was on in Room A - OTL's with previous 801's. The OTL manufacturer was sitting in my chair. It was louder than normal.
The OTL's were plugged into a spare 15 amp wall outlet - other amps not being used, were plugged into the dedicated outlets. When 2:38 came on there was the first bass note, then a momentary lapse of silence (a second), like a glitch. There was not enough juice for the amps to generate the bass notes ! The 801 bass drivers went silent for a second! A first time for him and me. More dedicated outlets went in after that on that part of the wall.

Cowboy Junkies - At the End of Paths Taken

Lorde - Hey, why listen to electronic low bass test tones on a cd, when you can hear real cool electronic music instead. And listen in this case to the lyrics as well , in order get an idea of where the younger generation's heads are at.

All three albums provide so much bass through the Quads 57 (seven feet out) and the Rm10 amp without the sub, that you may feel no more is required and are satisfied. This is the exact scenario you want when bringing in a sub. This is when the sub will prove its worth for the bottom octave only.

The sub is in nearfield crossed over at 50hz......
On the sub's volume dial - are positions that go from 1 -10 - it is set at "2". That is what a sub in nearfield does for you with the 57's in this room.

Quad 57 - Room B

ct0517 November 09, 2015 09:16

This was all part of the previous post - if u can believe it. :^( So I made it separate.

Got my wish and was able play the role of Audiophile last Saturday with the Quads and Sub - using music to listen to my gear :^)

Couple music selections to help with set up and to test integration of sub with the 57's. All contain Female voices - coincidence ?

Patricia Barber - Companion - must be the live version. Whole album works but look out for the 2:38 mark of Let It Rain.
If you are still using the screens on the Quads - prepare for rattling and remove after. :^) I have this one in CD and 15 IPS tape format.
The bass output here affects both the Quads low and where the Sub kicks in at 50 hz. and is therefore an excellent spot to tested out the blending .

Once when this song was on in Room A - OTL's with previous 801's. The OTL manufacturer was sitting in my chair. It was louder than normal.
The OTL's were plugged into a spare 15 amp wall outlet - other amps not being used, were plugged into the dedicated outlets. When 2:38 came on there was the first bass note, then a momentary lapse of silence (a second), like a glitch. There was not enough juice for the amps to generate the bass notes ! The 801 bass drivers went silent for a second! A first time for him and me. More dedicated outlets went in after that on that part of the wall.

Cowboy Junkies - At the End of Paths Taken

Lorde - Hey, why listen to electronic low bass test tones on a cd, when you can hear real cool electronic music instead. And listen in this case to the lyrics as well , in order get an idea of where the younger generation's heads are at.

All three albums provide so much bass through the Quads 57 (seven feet out) and the Rm10 amp without the sub, that you may feel no more is required and are satisfied. This is the exact scenario you want when bringing in a sub. This is when the sub will prove its worth for the bottom octave only.

The sub is in nearfield crossed over at 50hz......
On the sub's volume dial - are positions that go from 1 -10 - it is set at "2". That is what a sub in nearfield does for you with the 57's in this room.

Quad 57 - Room B

ct0517 November 09, 2015 09:16

This was all part of the previous post - if u can believe it. :^( So I made it separate.

Got my wish and was able play the role of Audiophile last Saturday with the Quads and Sub - using music to listen to my gear :^)

Couple music selections to help with set up and to test integration of sub with the 57's. All contain Female voices - coincidence ?

Patricia Barber - Companion - must be the live version. Whole album works but look out for the 2:38 mark of Let It Rain.
If you are still using the screens on the Quads - prepare for rattling and remove after. :^) I have this one in CD and 15 IPS tape format.
The bass output here affects both the Quads low and where the Sub kicks in at 50 hz. and is therefore an excellent spot to tested out the blending .

Once when this song was on in Room A - OTL's with previous 801's. The OTL manufacturer was sitting in my chair. It was louder than normal.
The OTL's were plugged into a spare 15 amp wall outlet - other amps not being used, were plugged into the dedicated outlets. When 2:38 came on there was the first bass note, then a momentary lapse of silence (a second), like a glitch. There was not enough juice for the amps to generate the bass notes ! The 801 bass drivers went silent for a second! A first time for him and me. More dedicated outlets went in after that on that part of the wall.

Cowboy Junkies - At the End of Paths Taken

Lorde - Hey, why listen to electronic low bass test tones on a cd, when you can hear real cool electronic music instead. And listen in this case to the lyrics as well , in order get an idea of where the younger generation's heads are at.

All three albums provide so much bass through the Quads 57 (seven feet out) and the Rm10 amp without the sub, that you may feel no more is required and are satisfied. This is the exact scenario you want when bringing in a sub. This is when the sub will prove its worth for the bottom octave only.

The sub is in nearfield crossed over at 50hz......
On the sub's volume dial - are positions that go from 1 -10 - it is set at "2". That is what a sub in nearfield does for you with the 57's in this room.

Quad 57 - Room B

ct0517 November 09, 2015 09:16

Hi Eric - would never have figured out your name from Bdp24 :^)

Firstly what is very important here to me and I thought about it when u said this.

I hope I haven't overstayed my welcome, and that at least some of this rant will be of use (or at least interest!) to you---Eric
I appreciate real experiences over all else. it holds a lot of value to me. This thread only a couple years old now and before Audiogon buggered it all up last spring, showed me the views. Back last spring was near 1/2 million views ....i think. So I believe your experiences are of interest to me, and others I am sure. Especially since you show a lot of passion and are not tied to the Audiophilia Biz. :^)

Eric ...Pictures are a real asset. Especially speakers in a room ! Like a thousand words ..... Every experienced audiophile can look at speakers/type in a room and has a good idea how it sounds. Now regarding stacked Quads.

For those on this thread unfamiliar with Quad 57's, and stacked quads I attach some links for reference.

Please notice the positioning of the bottom panels on the first two links compared to last three. The last three links - the bottom panels are setup like stock. On stock form - single pair - this produces music to a listener that imitates sitting in a balcony. So I would expect that the last 3 setups fill in more bottom to top.
As you tilt the ground panel forward. Like putting a piece of wood under the third back leg on a stock 57 - imaging rises. You are no longer in the balcony hearing the performance.

Stacked Pic 1

Stacked Pic 2

Stacked Pic 3

Stacked Pic 4

Stacked Pic 5

Re: Stacked Quads - Peter Walker said in the interview that I linked here that the stacked setup gives 6db more in the bass - and 3 db more everywhere else.
So...
They don't play any lower, and it is not a straight linear upgrade to the original single 57 output.
The prominent midrange where the magic is - loses some of its magic when Quads are stacked. The numbers support this too - 6db versus 3 db. This is just my opinion on it. And only hearing a setup like this once. Now it could of been the room or condition of one or more panels. Too many variables. Readers can see if you look at the links that it is quite the effort to do; Stack Quads 57's. What you are not seeing is the time it took to restore the panels. Very few panels for sale are 100%.
If they were the owner would be hanging on to them. imo

For me right now its just not worth acquiring a second pair and sending them to Wayne Picquet for restore. Effort, time and cost. This is mainly because I am able to play my pair in my space (a bigger space than most of those links from what I can tell) with one RM10 at 90 db AVERAGE measured at the chair if I want . This is 10 more db than normal for me with no issues. The sub comes in at a low 50 hz. More on this in a bit.

57's need to be set up in a live room. This is a total opposite to my Room A and experience with John Bowers era matrix 800 series. Those take work and knowledge on room tuning to get right. And fwiw - I am not impressed that B&W unleashes speakers like this to the unsuspecting audiophile. Studios know how to set them up. Audiophiles new to the brand with cash to burn do not. The John Bowers era was all about 2 channel music. Not a fan of the post - John Bowers era.

Re:DM70
Bdp24 - To be honest, I can't imagine why you would be using the woofer in that speaker as a sub for Quads!
Eric....To be honest :^) , if you have these two speakers staring at you, in your own space. I can't imagine any red hot blooded audiophile - NOT - trying it out and hearing for themselves. Room B has always been an audio play room of sorts for me. This experiment lasted 3-4 days. Switching polarities on the woofers helped,if I recall?, but am not sure now. The experiment let me hear it for myself.

The DM70 on their own absolutely need to be set up high. The panels at your ear level. This means a lift of one foot minimum. They have a resonating - non matrix box. Up high also makes them less boomy with more bass note articulation. They should also be setup in a larger live room. They don't play any lower than 40 hz just like the Quad 57's, but their lower end is obviously more fuller. So depending on the music you can get away without a sub.

Re: OB sub
Bdp24 - Enrico is of course not going to recommend the sub to you (or even mention it), or be able to advise you on it's use. He is involved with Rythmik, a completely separate operation with a different target audience and customer bass (largely Home Theater, most definitely not audiophile.
Yeah, I got this message and it is cool. All those in the audio biz all need/have to play within their own silos. he was however helpful.

Re: RM10
Thanks for the insight into the RM10. You have a unique relationship with Roger. I found him very elusive when emailing - I gave up. He's just too far away. It's too bad you haven't heard a single pair of 57's with the RM10 to hear how much output / quality I am getting.

Bdp24 - Yes, he did now recommend a pair of RM-10's. Unfortunately, I had already bought an Atma-Sphere M60!
*********************************************
Eric - Sorry for the asterisks - But wanted u to see this in this post - post getting long - what else is new !
Consider something here as I believe it is a big factor in play. The OTL's I owned were 200 wpc. They could not compete in the bass dept with the push pull RM9 in the bass dept. i believe (using OTL's) is a big factor in having to set a higher crossover on subs with 57's. I base this on my own experience and your comments on recommending the use of 80hz and 120 hz crossover points. The bass I found is just more lean with OTL's. I would never go that high a crossover in my room with the Quads and sub.

You may prove my above theory in your own room only, by borrowing 1 or 2 RM10's from your buddy Roger. :^) .....:^)......:^)
And this needs to be done in your room only for a direct comparison.

*********************************************

Bdp24 - the OB/Dipole sub needs to be away from the wall behind it, as do all Dipoles, including Quads. They can be right up against a side wall though, or on the floor if placed horizontally..
I can position any way I want in Room B. The 57's are 7 feet out from the front wall right now. I am getting really good results with just one nearfield / conventional sub. The brown chair you see in the pic I linked has seen every side of the space. But the overall music results are best as in the pic. I wish I could get rid of that house support pole - like move it to the left a bit.
The brown chair as pictured - for a nearfield sub, has boundaries to the the right of it, That is where the sub is. The staircase, which would be a back wall to it. To the left is open. I realize those OB subs would allow me to try positioning within range of the speakers themselves. But right now Eric, unless you have tried this with a nearfield sub/s, and can provide me with some direct comparison insight; I am staying on this nearfield track for now. Bringing anything new in at this time requires selling existing stuff. That gives one patience and incentive to research this through. If I wasn't getting excellent results with a nearfield sub it would be a different story.

Cheers Chris
.

ct0517 November 09, 2015 08:55

Hi Eric - would never have figured out your name from Bdp24 :^)

Firstly what is very important here to me and I thought about it when u said this.

I hope I haven't overstayed my welcome, and that at least some of this rant will be of use (or at least interest!) to you---Eric
I appreciate real experiences over all else. it holds a lot of value to me. This thread only a couple years old now and before Audiogon buggered it all up last spring, showed me the views. Back last spring was near 1/2 million views ....i think. So I believe your experiences are of interest to me, and others I am sure. Especially since you show a lot of passion and are not tied to the Audiophilia Biz. :^)

Eric ...Pictures are a real asset. Especially speakers in a room ! Like a thousand words ..... Every experienced audiophile can look at speakers/type in a room and has a good idea how it sounds. Now regarding stacked Quads.

For those on this thread unfamiliar with Quad 57's, and stacked quads I attach some links for reference.

Please notice the positioning of the bottom panels on the first two links compared to last three. The last three links - the bottom panels are setup like stock. On stock form - single pair - this produces music to a listener that imitates sitting in a balcony. So I would expect that the last 3 setups fill in more bottom to top.
As you tilt the ground panel forward. Like putting a piece of wood under the third back leg on a stock 57 - imaging rises. You are no longer in the balcony hearing the performance.

Stacked Pic 1

Stacked Pic 2

Stacked Pic 3

Stacked Pic 4

Stacked Pic 5

Re: Stacked Quads - Peter Walker said in the interview that I linked here that the stacked setup gives 6db more in the bass - and 3 db more everywhere else.
So...
They don't play any lower, and it is not a straight linear upgrade to the original single 57 output.
The prominent midrange where the magic is - loses some of its magic when Quads are stacked. The numbers support this too - 6db versus 3 db. This is just my opinion on it. And only hearing a setup like this once. Now it could of been the room or condition of one or more panels. Too many variables. Readers can see if you look at the links that it is quite the effort to do; Stack Quads 57's. What you are not seeing is the time it took to restore the panels. Very few panels for sale are 100%.
If they were the owner would be hanging on to them. imo

For me right now its just not worth acquiring a second pair and sending them to Wayne Picquet for restore. Effort, time and cost. This is mainly because I am able to play my pair in my space (a bigger space than most of those links from what I can tell) with one RM10 at 90 db AVERAGE measured at the chair if I want . This is 10 more db than normal for me with no issues. The sub comes in at a low 50 hz. More on this in a bit.

57's need to be set up in a live room. This is a total opposite to my Room A and experience with John Bowers era matrix 800 series. Those take work and knowledge on room tuning to get right. And fwiw - I am not impressed that B&W unleashes speakers like this to the unsuspecting audiophile. Studios know how to set them up. Audiophiles new to the brand with cash to burn do not. The John Bowers era was all about 2 channel music. Not a fan of the post - John Bowers era.

Re:DM70
Bdp24 - To be honest, I can't imagine why you would be using the woofer in that speaker as a sub for Quads!
Eric....To be honest :^) , if you have these two speakers staring at you, in your own space. I can't imagine any red hot blooded audiophile - NOT - trying it out and hearing for themselves. Room B has always been an audio play room of sorts for me. This experiment lasted 3-4 days. Switching polarities on the woofers helped,if I recall?, but am not sure now. The experiment let me hear it for myself.

The DM70 on their own absolutely need to be set up high. The panels at your ear level. This means a lift of one foot minimum. They have a resonating - non matrix box. Up high also makes them less boomy with more bass note articulation. They should also be setup in a larger live room. They don't play any lower than 40 hz just like the Quad 57's, but their lower end is obviously more fuller. So depending on the music you can get away without a sub.

Re: OB sub
Bdp24 - Enrico is of course not going to recommend the sub to you (or even mention it), or be able to advise you on it's use. He is involved with Rythmik, a completely separate operation with a different target audience and customer bass (largely Home Theater, most definitely not audiophile.
Yeah, I got this message and it is cool. All those in the audio biz all need/have to play within their own silos. he was however helpful.

Re: RM10
Thanks for the insight into the RM10. You have a unique relationship with Roger. I found him very elusive when emailing - I gave up. He's just too far away. It's too bad you haven't heard a single pair of 57's with the RM10 to hear how much output / quality I am getting.

Bdp24 - Yes, he did now recommend a pair of RM-10's. Unfortunately, I had already bought an Atma-Sphere M60!
*********************************************
Eric - Sorry for the asterisks - But wanted u to see this in this post - post getting long - what else is new !
Consider something here as I believe it is a big factor in play. The OTL's I owned were 200 wpc. They could not compete in the bass dept with the push pull RM9 in the bass dept. i believe (using OTL's) is a big factor in having to set a higher crossover on subs with 57's. I base this on my own experience and your comments on recommending the use of 80hz and 120 hz crossover points. The bass I found is just more lean with OTL's. I would never go that high a crossover in my room with the Quads and sub.

You may prove my above theory in your own room only, by borrowing 1 or 2 RM10's from your buddy Roger. :^) .....:^)......:^)
And this needs to be done in your room only for a direct comparison.

*********************************************

Bdp24 - the OB/Dipole sub needs to be away from the wall behind it, as do all Dipoles, including Quads. They can be right up against a side wall though, or on the floor if placed horizontally..
I can position any way I want in Room B. The 57's are 7 feet out from the front wall right now. I am getting really good results with just one nearfield / conventional sub. The brown chair you see in the pic I linked has seen every side of the space. But the overall music results are best as in the pic. I wish I could get rid of that house support pole - like move it to the left a bit.
The brown chair as pictured - for a nearfield sub, has boundaries to the the right of it, That is where the sub is. The staircase, which would be a back wall to it. To the left is open. I realize those OB subs would allow me to try positioning within range of the speakers themselves. But right now Eric, unless you have tried this with a nearfield sub/s, and can provide me with some direct comparison insight; I am staying on this nearfield track for now. Bringing anything new in at this time requires selling existing stuff. That gives one patience and incentive to research this through. If I wasn't getting excellent results with a nearfield sub it would be a different story.

Cheers Chris
.

ct0517 November 09, 2015 08:55