Cal,
Regarding the EML XLS I understand, you can't do everything at once and some things have to wait. 500.00 for a pair is money well spent when the time is right for you. It sounds wonderful and is built to last for many years as well. Israel Blume designed the Frankenstein to be very easy on the output tubes. Heat dissipation is a conservative 25 watts, this amp won't eat up the 300b tubes prematurely. So that 500,00 will go very far in terms of performance longevity.
Charles,

charles1dad February 23, 2015 06:51

Cal,
Your went from a very admired SS amp(a class A Pass Labs) to an 8 watt 300b SET. Was there a period of aural adjustment required for you or did you immediately like the different sound? Was that the bigger change or was it the Thiel to Coincident speaker? I believe most people who move to a good SET amplifier are pleasantly surprised by the level of transparency and resolution. The stereotype expectation is warm cuddly midrange and rolled off everything else. In my case the degree of improved inner detail and nuance retrival exceeded expectation. It's these little but important factors that increased the sense of realism.
Charles,

charles1dad February 23, 2015 06:33

Yeah, it's been an interesting journey in stereotype breaking... really the whole way, since I chose a 30 watt amplifier for my Thiels (vs. 400 and 500 watt options of similar quality). Just goes to show that there are a lot of opinions out there, and it's always YMMV. I'll post some more comparisons and thoughts on the new system sometime in the future when I'm feeling reflective.

Also, there's literally a pair of EML XLSs ($500) that just got posted a day ago (the first ad in the tubes section, even). Unfortunately I'm still in the process of selling off the old system and can't afford to make any new purchases yet. I'm almost fully doubled up right now.

cal3713 February 23, 2015 00:38

Hi Mapman,
My exposure to hearing class D amplifiers has been mainly at shows, dealer demos and occasionally someone's system. I don't keep up with them more than that. It's impossible to hear everything that's available not to memtion in one's own system. The class D amps I did hear weren't bad at all. None of them had the naturalness and tactile presence I desire. It was very obvious I'm listening to electronic reproduced sound. With really good tubes and especially SET the 'human' realism is an entirely more convincing organic experience. that's just me, you could feel just as strongly that class D provides that organic realism for you. That's why I don't argue and debate this aspect of audio. People just like what they like. Islandmandan has a class D amp now that he loves as much as his SET 300b, so there you go.
Charles,

charles1dad February 22, 2015 17:12

Charles have you tried or heard any good class d amp setups in recent years?

I'd be interested in your observations regarding how a good class d amp setup might compare to a good set based one.

Class d has really won me over. It's a totally different beast than any comparable class a/b ss amp. Class a is a different story as well tube or otherwise. I'd be much quicker to jump on the tube amp bandwagon I think if not for class d. I think it has hit its stride recently for "high end" home audio and still has huge upside down the road as well.

I had a class g amp as well a bit back. That one never quite seemed to fire on all burners properly in my experience.

mapman February 22, 2015 15:23

Hi Cal,
It goes against common wisdom(stereotype) but I get more information/resolution from this SET than any other amplifier I've had in my system. If you ever come across a used pair of EML XLS tubes I'd suggest you take a chance on them. It's a superb match with the Frankenstein. To say the Super Eclipse images better than your former Thiels is quite a compliment.
Charles,

charles1dad February 22, 2015 13:19

Hi Charles, a response to your question in the Thiel thread (http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?cspkr&1424398773) in regard to the Coincident system being "hotter" than the Thiel/Pass combo.

I think your comment was right on. The Coincident combo (SEIIIs and Franks; Psvane 300B-TII) is actually producing more information in the high frequencies and therefor is simply more revealing that the 2.4s. I've spent many hours playing with placement. For example, before I got the Franks, I had to put a lot of work into getting further away from the SEs because of the high frequency hottness and the difficulty in integrating that information. Once I got the Franks, I was able to pull speakers out from the wall more. I've also worked on toe-in a great deal, especially since I'm used to almost none with the Thiels. Currently I'm pointing them at the arm rests of my three person couch where the middle seat is the sweet spot.

Anyway, I find that the SEIIIs actually image better that the Thiels. The only time I miss the old combo is on certain female voices (Alison Kraus, Rhye) where the old combo's increased sweetness made the women slightly more intoxicating.

cal3713 February 22, 2015 13:02

Two more CDs that I may have mentioned before that I listen to often.
1)" Look Stop And Listen" Pianist Tardo Hammer playing the music composed by Tadd Dameron. Beautiful!
2)"The Great American Song Book" Carmen McRae. Live jazz club 1971 in LA. Joe Pass on guitar. Beautiful!

charles1dad February 13, 2015 01:37

Fellow jazz lovers, here are a few CDs you may enjoy as much as I do.

1)"Very Tall" Oscar Peterson trio with Milt Jackson. No description necessary.
2)"Bean Bags" Coleman Hawkins and Milt Jackson. Ditto!
3)"Live At The Jazz Standard" Russell Malone. Beautiful.
4)"Tribute To Paul Desmond" Bruce Babad. Babad can play!
5)"Takin' It There" Graham Decker. Young guitarist with mature chops.
6)"But Beautiful" Kenny Barron and Joe Locke. Piano and vibraphone duet by two masters of their instruments. The title is self explanatory.
Charles,

charles1dad February 13, 2015 01:20

Hi Thalusa,
Just as I thought, both are excellent in their own beautiful way. No amplifier will be perfect but either of these two will bring joy into your audio system with the right matching speaker. You have the right speakers for both of these amplifiers.
Charles,

charles1dad February 07, 2015 08:31

Hi Charles,

Thank you for the compliment regarding my amplifiers. You are a true gentleman.

I am really enjoying switching back and forth between the Franks and my OTL amp. The Canary is on the sideline for now; it does sound closer to the Franks than the Joule. You are right, they are different presentations, both very enjoyable. The biggest difference is that the Joule, with its 8 output tubes and 80 watts a channel, sounds bigger and weightier, especially with bass notes, and the highs have a velvety richness to them that I find very enchanting. The Franks are noticeably clearer and more transparent, and I am finding the dynamics to be more startling than the Joule. Funny thing is the Franks sound a lot like what I imagine a great OTL would sound like, and I imagine the Joule has qualities that are a lot like a SET amp.

I bought the Franks because I wanted something that puts out less heat and is mechanically more quiet than the Joule. My intent was to sell the Joule if I liked the Franks, but I have been really enjoying switching back and forth. Then there are days like in the past week where I can sense the bass and treble ripen with the Franks, which has got me thinking I could easily live with just the Franks and sell the Joule. It's been fun.

thaluza February 07, 2015 00:48

Rebbi, I think your audio dilemmas will be trending on the internet shortly, soon to replace Kim Kardasian and her unique assets for the better. :^)

mapman February 06, 2015 17:03

Hmm, as I recall, the Decapos made a similar difference as well at first, right Reb?

Like I said its fun to try new things. Its relatively easy to do in audio. I sometimes wish I did not like my setup as much as I do so that I could have some fun with new toys, but I keep choosing to just enjoy the music, for now.

mapman February 06, 2015 17:01

Bill,
If you read Rebbi's blog notes the good far outweigh the bad in an overall sense. He's getting the best sound he's ever had at home with this amplifier. I'd keep the amp and replace the speakers at some point.
The amp has made the bigger difference in his system rather than the De Capos.
Charles,

charles1dad February 06, 2015 16:58

On the other hand, they are only speakers. There are many nice sounding speakers in the sea. You just gotta find teh right one (to fit in with your needs). Its fun trying new things. If it doesn't work out just sell again and move on. The worse thing that can happen at each stage is that it likely sounds very good but not perfect. Oh well. That should be the worse thing that happens to us. :^)

mapman February 06, 2015 16:57

Rebbi, I think your experience in soliciting advice on the SET amp, and the outcome of the build, again underscores the necessity of an in home trial. Though you have fallen in love with the new amp,it is not working in your room with your music with your speakers. I waited a long time for my Triumph extreme IIs to come up for sale. I love them, but what does that mean for you? I also love the decapos driven by my 8 wpc Dynamo. Your 300B AN isn't getting it done with the decapos. You took a chance with the amp, but it may be hard to take chances on speakers and stay revenue neutral.

brownsfan February 06, 2015 16:39

Rebbi,
Nice listening notes, you nailed the essence of what makes good SET amplifiers so musically honest and emotionally involving. +1 for your descriptive comments. Your Manley was no slouch but you've moved beyond that level with your new amplifier.

charles1dad February 06, 2015 13:26

Charles, I am not sure if the term easier is the correct description, but the TE excel at lower level dynamics and detail. With the Triumphs, I found that I needed to play them louder to get that "jump" factor. I also found that the De Capo also excelled at low level dynamics.

brf February 06, 2015 13:15

Hi Brf,
I'm glad the Duelund CAST capacitors worked out so well for you as they did for me. Brf I wonder if the larger Total Eclispe is an easier speaker load than the Triumph MK I? My 8 watt amp drives them with a sense of ease and flow.

charles1dad February 06, 2015 13:02

I'm starting to share listening impressions of the Kit 1 on my blog. Enjoy!

rebbi February 06, 2015 12:48

Hi Thaluza,
I find your joy with the Frankenstein very intersting for the following reasons. You already owned two "fine" power amplifiers, the Canary 300b push pull and the Joule VZN 80 MK V OTL. I thought there might be an adjustment period to a different topology. Do you plan to keep the Joule to use as an alternative flavor from time to time? It seems the Joule and Frankenstein would both provide much fun with their different presentations. You have certainly owned some excellent power amplifiers.
Charles,

charles1dad February 06, 2015 12:47

For point of reference, both the Triumph and Reference 3a de capo i where used in a secondary system driven by a Cary Integrated 300 SEI with EML 300 XLS tubes with the only source being a Squeezebox Touch /Oppo combo for streaming audio.

In my main system, I still use Coincident Total Eclipse speakers with the "Charles1dad" recommended Duelund cap upgrade. I am not looking for a speaker change.

brf February 06, 2015 12:33

"When two credible perspectives are so polar it makes me wonder what accounts for the wide gap."

No two cases are exactly the same. It is always interesting to learn about how different people react to similar experiences and try to figure out why.

mapman February 06, 2015 12:07

Mapman,
I've developed respect for the input and impressions provided by Brownsfan and Brf over the years. For certain there will always be contrary opinions in this field of High End audio. When two credible perspectives are so polar it makes me wonder what accounts for the wide gap. It's as if Brf saw yellow and Brownnsfan said no the color was dark purple when describing the same object.

charles1dad February 06, 2015 12:03

I have to admit I am very ambivalent when it comes to technology. I am always interested to see how new innovations like Class D amps fare up against the older competition with more of a proven track record. I am interested in all technology old and new. I would love to own a modern Victrola in good working order for example. There is an old fashioned general store nearby whose owner refurbishes and sells Victrolas. They sound lovely playing in there! I will own one someday. Maybe a SET as well. :^)

mapman February 06, 2015 11:56