"When one makes a system change it can throw off the fine tonal balance and require a cable change"

It can also affect sound stage and imaging and might require some tweaking with speaker placement to get right again.

mapman May 12, 2015 19:14

I've had some interest in trying a passive pre-amp in my second system.

I did an experiment the other day running my mhdt paradisea tube dac directly to the tad hibachi monoblocks. Each monoblock has an input level adjustment pot that can be used to control volume. This bypassed the NAD unit I use normally as a (active) pre-amp. So this was source running directly to amp and using pots on teh amps to control volume.

The sound was much warmer this way. Much different from all the other A/V analog sources I use in this system (tuner, VCR tape, phono, DVD player).

I think this helped me realized that that a passive may be best for letting the sound of specific source devices come through, whereas with teh active pre-amp, all sources have more of a common sound, provided by teh pre-amp, although each still exhibits unique attributes of each source.

The tube DAC sounds unique and changes with different tubes and is distinct from teh others still but all share an inherent touch of warmth with moderate detail imparted by teh NAD (pre-amp section of an 80's vintage 7020 receiver).

mapman February 23, 2015 21:50

Charles have you tried or heard any good class d amp setups in recent years?

I'd be interested in your observations regarding how a good class d amp setup might compare to a good set based one.

Class d has really won me over. It's a totally different beast than any comparable class a/b ss amp. Class a is a different story as well tube or otherwise. I'd be much quicker to jump on the tube amp bandwagon I think if not for class d. I think it has hit its stride recently for "high end" home audio and still has huge upside down the road as well.

I had a class g amp as well a bit back. That one never quite seemed to fire on all burners properly in my experience.

mapman February 22, 2015 21:23

Rebbi, I think your audio dilemmas will be trending on the internet shortly, soon to replace Kim Kardasian and her unique assets for the better. :^)

mapman February 06, 2015 23:03

Hmm, as I recall, the Decapos made a similar difference as well at first, right Reb?

Like I said its fun to try new things. Its relatively easy to do in audio. I sometimes wish I did not like my setup as much as I do so that I could have some fun with new toys, but I keep choosing to just enjoy the music, for now.

mapman February 06, 2015 23:01

On the other hand, they are only speakers. There are many nice sounding speakers in the sea. You just gotta find teh right one (to fit in with your needs). Its fun trying new things. If it doesn't work out just sell again and move on. The worse thing that can happen at each stage is that it likely sounds very good but not perfect. Oh well. That should be the worse thing that happens to us. :^)

mapman February 06, 2015 22:57

"When two credible perspectives are so polar it makes me wonder what accounts for the wide gap."

No two cases are exactly the same. It is always interesting to learn about how different people react to similar experiences and try to figure out why.

mapman February 06, 2015 18:07

I have to admit I am very ambivalent when it comes to technology. I am always interested to see how new innovations like Class D amps fare up against the older competition with more of a proven track record. I am interested in all technology old and new. I would love to own a modern Victrola in good working order for example. There is an old fashioned general store nearby whose owner refurbishes and sells Victrolas. They sound lovely playing in there! I will own one someday. Maybe a SET as well. :^)

mapman February 06, 2015 17:56

Dan, thanks for that. I am interested to hear how it works out.

mapman February 06, 2015 17:51

"There always seem to be differences when it comes to comparing audio components."

You can bank on that! Just like taxes and the other thing. :^)

The other thing one can bank on is it always pays to do the homework up front which includes sampling a lot of information and individual viewpoints.

mapman February 06, 2015 17:37

Brf,

That's interesting and perhaps a bit surprising but one has to keep in mind that technical specs and matches alone do not dictate how good something will sound, only that the things involved are able to do their own thing together technically to the best degree possible. Each thing is different and personal tastes and preferences will vary. So technical considerations can be used to steer one in a good direction with a better chance of success perhaps but alone cannot guarantee the desired results.

I;'ve never heard either Decapo or Coincident so I have no clue how they actually sound. On paper though, Coincident would seem to be better suited for tube amps in general. Of course SET amps up the ante for teh speakers to be able to deliver on just a few tube watts, so not all tube amp friendly speakers are necessarily the best match for a SET.

It all depends, like usual, on an individual's own personal goals and perhaps to a lesser but still important extent their budget.

mapman February 06, 2015 16:21

Charles

No doubt. Two radically different approaches. The amp is just one ingredient in the recipe. I find with the amp I'm using at least that it allows the other ingredients to shine through including the clean just a touch warm but detailed sound of the audio ref tube preamp. My speakers dictate the approach with the amp.

In my other system. I have smaller versions of the same speaker run of tuba audio design hibachi amps and I use a tube dac to achieve a similar sound. Lots of ways to make good soup. Building around a set is one I might try sometime but I would expect similar results as well in that I am always shooting for the same target in terms of how things sound but perhaps to different scales in different cases depending on the room

mapman February 06, 2015 01:24

BTW,

I hope Charles does not mind us hijacking his thread to talk about these things.

mapman February 05, 2015 22:06

Reb, yes I thought you did something like that at some point but was not sure.

That BC is OK for the price but not the best match based on input impedance for a tube pre-amp, so more might have been possible there. Of course all combos will sound somewhat different.

FWIW I leave the power on with my Class D amps all the time in that they draw virtually no power when idle but mostly to avoid having to turn them on. I also keep my SS DAC on most of the time. I do not play CDs, but to play music, I just turn on the ARC tube pre-amp and touch my SB touch and that's it. Just saying.... There are many ways to skin the cats.

mapman February 05, 2015 21:53

Also I wonder if anyone has achieved optimal SET like performance using a tube pre-amp with SS amp, maybe Class D, to add the tube magic but also be able to drive most any speaker of choice?

I do that in my system and think it works pretty well but my SET listening experience is limited to just a few auditions at shows, etc.

mapman February 05, 2015 21:38

Another possible solution is the Zeros impedance matching transformer but these would add some cost that might just as well be applied towards a better match in speakers.

mapman February 05, 2015 21:33

Don't turn back. Forge ahead. Offloading the bass to a powered sub or two with the existing Decapos would likely solve your problem with the best of both worlds and leave little to want. Martykl is the champ of integrating tube amps with subs around here. Maybe see what he has to say.

mapman February 05, 2015 19:42

Open baffle 4 ohm speakers with a SET does not sound like a great idea on paper at least but every combo will have its unique charms. Heck even old 78 rpm recordings with very limited frequency response have some very distinctive transients and will catch my ear, even if played on a Victrola. SO you just never know for sure what might "sound good". Sounding good and good performance are two different but related things.

mapman December 17, 2014 03:21

Is it just me that has difficulty equating the name "Frankenstein" with beautiful music? In an ironic manner perhaps.

Nice amps. I'd change the name myself though it might have some appeal to classic horror fans. Are many of those Audiophiles?

Dynamo is much better! That can stay. :-)

Names probably should not matter, but often do.

mapman December 05, 2014 18:12