Hi Charles,

Thanks for your insight into the Yamamoto. I would see if I can get my hands on one. It really could be an interesting upgrade from the NAD M51, that I love. Also, I need to check on the synergy of the components. My preamp and amp are truly soft, classic, flowing, organic SET sounding and that is why I tried with the NAD M51 Solid state DAC. For example, before I has this DHT preamp, I had a Hybrid (tube/SS) Sonic Frontier preamp. In that rig, I used to have a passive device between DAC output and preamp input. It was a box made of 2 old 111C Western Electric Transformers with RCA inputs and outputs. THis passive device cures any "digitalitis" in signals making the sound rounder and with less edges. Problem appeared when I added the DHT preamp, then I needed no more the passive device. On my next trip to USA, probably August, I will try to listen to the Yamamoto DAC!!

alanbrain March 15, 2015 13:57

Alan,
6 Moons did a comparison review of both the Yamamoto solid-state and the tube DACs, It is a very thorough and in-depth comparison between these two fine DACS, I think you'll find it worthwhile to read. It is in their archives section , the review is Yamamoto YDA-01b(tube version) but both are covered.

charles1dad March 11, 2015 21:04

Alan,
Thanks for the kind comments regarding my system. The Yamamoto is available in tube and SS, I have their SS version. I tend to prefer tubes but in digital sources(especially this brand) the distinction is tiny compared to amplifying components. Given Yamamoto's expertise and reputation for building excellent S ET amplifiers, he was able to get the same voicing in his DAC as he does in his fine power amplifiers. This is one of the most organic naturally realistic DACs I have heard, it just makes music with the emotion intact. Tone, timbre, bloom, decay, dynamics are truly reproduced well. The 6 Moons review was correct, if you are drawn to his SET amps, you'll love his DAC. It made the move from a TT an easy transition for me, I have not looked back at all. It is a natural fit with my Coincident DHT tube components. I changed the output coupling caps to Duelund CAST which only further improved the instrinsic qualities of this DAC. Alan given your system and taste I believe you would enjoy it.
Charles,

charles1dad March 11, 2015 20:25

Hi Charles,

I'm sure your system sounds great. I have a lot of respect for Israel Blume of Coincident and you have preamp, amp and speakers from him.

I'm very interested in the Yamamoto YDA-01!!! how is its sound? I think it used tubes, right?

alanbrain March 11, 2015 02:13

Charles. It is all about the exchange rate. The dollar is strong. In Japanese yen, the price has remained relatively constant. 144,000 yen. Although I think that there was a slight bump when the factory transitioned from white to black bases. Also a good time to visit Japan. And buy a back-up pair of tubes.

gsm18439 March 07, 2015 01:06

Hi Gary,
Wow the Takatsuki price has really dropped from a few years ago(that is good news for potential buyers). The USD/Yen ratio is much better now apparently. Those tubes were 2K USD for a long time. Now they are in the same range as the Elog 1100 USD. Good times for 300b users.

charles1dad March 06, 2015 22:17

Cal, I will have the opportunity to listen to the Elrog 300B in my system within the next two weeks. I have enjoyed immensely the TAK and EML and look forward to hear how the Elrog compares in my amplifier. 300b users are fortunate to have a variety of premium choices available. As a point of reference I did not like the Western Electric 300b re-issue in my amplifier. In my opinion it was clearly outclassed by the Takatsuki and the EML XLS.

charles1dad March 06, 2015 21:55

Charles. You are right. I corresponded with the Japanese distributor before buying my first pair. He was rather insulted when I inquired about reliability of a newly manufactured tube. I have the advantage of many friends and colleagues in Japan as well as visiting once or twice each year. However, they are easily sourced for about 1200USD.

gsm18439 March 06, 2015 21:49

I hope you try out the Elrog 300b Charles. You've got me checking prices of the EML-XLS (the Tak is definitely too rich for my blue-collar academic blood), and I'm curious whether to start doing the same for the Elrog.

cal3713 March 06, 2015 19:55

Brf.
Good points,the 300b is a simpler tube and requires only 1/3(or less) the voltage necessary for the 845, they are certainly different tube types. The Elrog 300b is probably easier to build and get right in terms of longevity and reliability. I suspect Elrog will/has gotten it right for all of their tubes now.

charles1dad March 06, 2015 16:52

The Tak 300B are "better" value now due to the strong $US dollar when compared to the Yen. With respect to the Elrog 845 vs 300B, don't forget that the the 845 needs around 1200v on the plate to operate, therefore, placing a lot more stress on the tube internals. I wish the best for Elrog, but time will tell. I have to admit, they are one cool looking tube!

brf March 06, 2015 13:08

Gary,
That is true regarding the Takatsuki. Those Japanese engineers got it right from the very beginning. There was likely a ton of testing prior to the initial offerings.

charles1dad March 06, 2015 03:05

What is also interesting is that the top tier 300b are all of relatively new manufacturer. The Takatsukis have only been in production for about 5 years.

gsm18439 March 06, 2015 02:52

Hi Gary,
You and I have touted the Takatsuki virtues for quite sometime and subsequently the EML XLS I added as well. None of these premium 300bs are cheap. However for music lovers with high quality 300b amplifiers these tubes are worth it IMO. Longevity of tube life and superb sound are what you get. If I could mimic this result with another type of amp I would grab it in a heartbeat. I can't speak for anyone else but I've not found an alternative topology that's as "completely fulfilling". For others who have I say sincerely, congratulations and enjoy what you have. These top level tubes help bring the music to life and makes their cost absolutely worth it in my experience. The enthusiastic description from Bill of his amplifier with the Elrog is not a surprise.This is very high level music reproduction he's talking about.
Charles,

charles1dad March 06, 2015 02:40

As Charles said, especially for 300b, there are really good "classical" design choices. I can vouch especially for the Takatsuki in terms of sound and reliability. Am curious about the Elrogs, but have not decided whether to get a pair to try. The main issue, however, is cost. The various options are all in the range of 1000+USD; the EML XLS being a relative bargain.

gsm18439 March 06, 2015 01:22

Charles, I can say that with just a few hours on the tube, they just utterly surpass the Ts in every respect. How can you increase definition and resolution while decreasing that sometimes abrasive edge on some recordings? I think we would all be very interested in your comparison of the Elrogs vs. the other top tier offerings.

brownsfan March 06, 2015 01:22

Excellent points Brownsfan(Bill).
Of the current production oxide filament 300bs I can vouch for Takatsuki, EML and Sophia Royal Princess to be top tier. Elrog is a very different approach with its thorinated tungsten filament construction. I'm happy to read your positive impression Bill and I look forward to listening to this unique 300b design. My yardstick is Takatsuki and the EML XLS, they've been a pure sonic joy(and utterly reliable).

charles1dad March 06, 2015 01:02

It has been interesting following the above discussion regarding the Elrog 845s. Spirit has exhibited remarkable patience, and no one can fault Brf for his caution in plopping down big bucks for tubes with reliability issues.

I began to think about top tier 300B tubes for my Frankensteins back last summer. When I became aware that Elrog was working on 300Bs, I stayed put with my Psvane T's, waiting to see how things played out with the Elrogs. I passed on the first batch, and pulled the trigger on a pair from the second batch. The sound quality is everything I hoped for. Charles' description of what he heard in his friend's 845 amp with the Elrogs is exactly what I hear from Dr. Schaffernicht's 300Bs in the Franks. Time will tell how the tubes hold up. From my point of view, the supply of top tier NOS tubes from the golden age is just about depleted. If companies like Elrog don't come through for us, what are we going to do? Go back to solid state? Perish the thought! Dr. Schaffernicht is not satisfied with approaching the best tubes from the past. His goal is to surpass them with respect to sound quality. Lofty goals are by definition difficult to realize. I suspect he is shrewd enough to know that he has some rope to work with, but--- big bucks are also difficult to come by. I just hope that he succeeds, because we all win. There are not many left from his generation. The window of opportunity to leverage the design and manufacturing experience of those who were there will close.

brownsfan March 06, 2015 00:36

Well that is a possibility but I would think the UK distributor is as motivated to get the newer tubes for his clients as is the American . Anyway I hope Spirit gets a good pair this time.

charles1dad March 05, 2015 22:57

Not necessarily as we don't know how old the stock is at the other distributor. I do know that the US agent has new stock.

jwm March 05, 2015 21:57

When you consider the Elrogs are from the same factory, built by the same person/personel the distributor shouldn't matter. They all have the same common source so the quality should be uniform.
Charles,

charles1dad March 05, 2015 20:10

Ok that explains everything, thanks Charles.

jwm March 05, 2015 17:07

Jeff,
Spirit is located in the UK so he most likely has a different vendor for his Elrogs.

charles1dad March 05, 2015 15:50

It's funny because I talked to the Distributor and he said the problems the Elrog's had three years ago were fixed a long time ago. This is the reason I went for them. He did not mention anyone having problems are you the only one. Did you buy these through the distributor.

jwm March 05, 2015 13:40

We'll see. I really don't want to give up just yet, but this has to be the final shot. My nature is to support the "little guy", but not at the expense of my frayed nerves LOL!

spiritofmusic March 04, 2015 23:31