My objective is to duplicate the sound of a good jazz venue as best I can. I'll never match it but getting close is fine. I've had various audio components through the years and tubes particularly DHT tubes/ASSET have gotten me the closest. So this is where I will settle down and appreciate.
Balanced AC power is fantastic !! 1800va balanced isolation transformer/conditioner. All aspects of music reproduction are improved for every single component.
Tripoint Tripoint Troy.
A wonderful grounding box component. When added to my system it increased the sense of natural sound quality and emotional engagement. The Troy has a humanistic and “soulful “ quality to it.
Coincident Speaker Tech Total eclipse 2
This wonderful speaker is transparent,open and involving. It`s large yet completely disappears as the source of sound within the room. Very easy to drive,94db and 14 0hm impedance (Minimum 10 ohm). I replaced the stock Solens capacitor with the Duelund CAST in the crossover.
Coincident Statement linestage
Superb performance. In my opinion , a masterpiece by Israel Blume. As would be expected, a wonderful match with its sibling the Frankenstein MK II.
Coincident Speaker Tech Frankenstein mark 2
A terrific 300b SET amplifier that is the foundation of my system. The EML XLS 300b tubes are a superb match with this amplifier.
Acquiring these 300b SET mono blocks changed the course of my music listening experience. They elevated the emotional engagement, tactility and “breath of life “ realism.
Yamamoto YDA-01
Wonderful music lover's DAC that has a very natural/organic sound quality. Duelund CAST addition(output coupling capacitors) makes it sound even better. It has a very minimalist circuit/design that was implemented well.
Ocellia Silver Reference IC
Very natural and pure sounding with excellent tone and timbre preservation.
Ocellia Silver Reference Speaker Cable
Same qualities/ comments as the IC.
Star Sound Technologies Sistrum Apprentice component platforms..
These Star Sound platforms are mandatory in my system. Effectively managing resonance and vibration leads to a very noticeable sound improvement with every component and especially the speakers. Excellent product.
High Fidelity CT1 Ultimate Digital cable
A highly impressive digital cable that mates beautifully into my system. Contributes to the natural sound presentation.
Pro-Ject Audio Systems CD Box RS2T
This is a superb Redbook CD playback transport. It’s both high resolution and impressively natural.
. I’m using the excellent Fidelizer Nikola II LPS. Splendid pairing.
Lavricables Grand and Master series Power Cables.
Pure silver wire and unshielded power cables. These are used with all of my audio components. They are very open, transparent, high resolution with beautiful natural tone and timbre presentation.
Abbas Esoteric Audio 3.2SE
Built by renown Ukrainian Abbas Zulfugarov. NOS DAC utilizing the classic Phillips TDA 1541 multi bit chip. Two 6080 tubes in the analog stage. 5 various rectifier tubes in the power supplies.
3 separate toroidal transformers (And 2 chokes ) for the power supplies.A very serious and successful upper tier DAC implementation. Using with the Abbas SPDIF and power cable.
Charles, Like everything else I do, the system changes have been an adventure. As usual, I need more patience, and I need it RIGHT NOW! At any rate, I should have a revised system up in a couple of weeks.
Charles good to see the system details back up. BTW, I have recently gotten my new music room mostly set up. I still have to do some clean up and put some unused stuff away, and the music room furniture is still in Indiana, but enough is done to allow me to post the new system. I've been getting a lot more listening time in lately. Things are sounding very good these days.
Charles, you are correct sir! I've heard some pretty expensive systems, but nothing is so purely musical as the Frank's with the Elrogs. Sit back and enjoy. Life is good.
Charles, You can go any direction from the top of the mountain, but they are all downhill. It's not likely we will see a better 300b or 101d anytime soon. We have wandered into rarefied regions, my friend!
Wise move Charles, that 3000 WPC class D should be at least 400 times better than those 8WPC Franks. BTW, you might want to think about moving towards the 60's Era bubblegum genre. You will be all set up.
Charles, An observation or two about the Elrogs. One of the attributes of these tubes I value most highly is the silky smooth sound. Last week, I had a chance to listen to a treasured recording of the Bach Johannespassion. It is a superb performance, but i always found it to be a bit too edgy with respect to sound. I was really very pleasantly surprised to find that it was very nearly smooth as silk. This smoothness is not really a reduction of grain, and it is certainly not achieved at the expense of resolution and air. This is somehow a different genre of smoothness, it is something new that I am at a loss to describe. In one of your posts, you mentioned "density" and someone else used a 4K vs 1080p analogy. Perhaps those are two other approaches to describing the same thing. It is not often I find myself at a loss for words, but that is where I am. We may have to rethink our audiophile vocabulary.
I chuckled at your question "What took them so long." The Elrogs are a breakthrough product. A radical rethinking of the overall approach, not just an incremental "what can I do to tweak this up a bit." It took Einstein a while to finally get around to relativity. We are the fortunate recipients of a remarkable piece of work. I find myself bidding Dr. Schaffernicht a sincere "live long and prosper."
Charles, I can say that with just a few hours on the tube, they just utterly surpass the Ts in every respect. How can you increase definition and resolution while decreasing that sometimes abrasive edge on some recordings? I think we would all be very interested in your comparison of the Elrogs vs. the other top tier offerings.
It has been interesting following the above discussion regarding the Elrog 845s. Spirit has exhibited remarkable patience, and no one can fault Brf for his caution in plopping down big bucks for tubes with reliability issues.
I began to think about top tier 300B tubes for my Frankensteins back last summer. When I became aware that Elrog was working on 300Bs, I stayed put with my Psvane T's, waiting to see how things played out with the Elrogs. I passed on the first batch, and pulled the trigger on a pair from the second batch. The sound quality is everything I hoped for. Charles' description of what he heard in his friend's 845 amp with the Elrogs is exactly what I hear from Dr. Schaffernicht's 300Bs in the Franks. Time will tell how the tubes hold up. From my point of view, the supply of top tier NOS tubes from the golden age is just about depleted. If companies like Elrog don't come through for us, what are we going to do? Go back to solid state? Perish the thought! Dr. Schaffernicht is not satisfied with approaching the best tubes from the past. His goal is to surpass them with respect to sound quality. Lofty goals are by definition difficult to realize. I suspect he is shrewd enough to know that he has some rope to work with, but--- big bucks are also difficult to come by. I just hope that he succeeds, because we all win. There are not many left from his generation. The window of opportunity to leverage the design and manufacturing experience of those who were there will close.
Charles, I've heard some really good silver (VH Audio again) and some really good copper (Coincident). I've also heard plenty of bad silver and bad copper. Out there in left field is the Audio Magic liquid air stuff. It is also very good in my experience. Once I get all of my gear down here, I'll be needing some new PCs, so I will look into the Cruze First stuff. That is a new name to me.
Charles, I am using VH Audio AirSines with the Furutech FI-50 plugs for the Franks. I bought those for use with my Cary amps and switched them over to the Franks when I sold the Carys, so they are the only PCs I have ever tried with the Franks. As for the Elrogs, they are getting better with additional time. I'm done for the night. I can see it is not going to be easy getting anything done this week. ; )
Charles, I'm told Dr. Schaffernicht did his homework with all of the available 300Bs, including NOS WEs. Will it be the right tube in our amps?
As you know, everything starts with quality workmanship, attention to detail, but in the end, a butt ugly tube that sounds like angels is OK with me. That said, visually, the Elrogs are stunningly beautiful to behold! Much as I like some of the Psvane tubes, I have had issues with the quality of workmanship more than once. The system is warming up with the Psvane Ts in place. Stay tuned.
Charles, i'm still commuting back and forth between Indiana and Tennessee. I'm far from settled in anywhere at this point. Let's see, Indiana has my wife, my dogs, and my dynamo/deCapos, while Tennessee has my Franks/TEIIs and my mountains. In between, I have 400 miles of mostly beautiful scenery, even in winter. I am eager to clear out of Indiana, but, life is good, even as things are. The change in my system was more a quantum jump than an evolution, and the change was precipitated more by my purchase of the TEIIs than the CSL. As you recall, I bought them to run in a head on comparison against the deCapos, with the winner being retained as a starting point for a bedroom system. It took about 15 seconds to figure out the TEIIs really outclassed not just the deCapos, but also my Magnepan 3.7Rs. That changed the game entirely, and the Maggies were leveraged against the Frankensteins. I picked up the Elrogs at the Post Office a while ago. I will fire things up shortly. I expect a lot out of these tubes, based on some things I have heard. But we will see. The tough part is that it is going to take a painfully long time to get a good burn in of the tubes accomplished with my current schedule. I will pm you some first impressions later today or tomorrow.
Also, I am thinking seriously about getting an Audio Magic umbilical for the DC from the CSL power supply to the preamp. I replaced the DC cables on my ModWright sources last summer and was blown away by the improvement. I guess there is just no end to the fun!
Charles, what is so remarkable about the Franks is that they accomplish such a high level of resolution and detail without introducing any listener fatigue. My current system, with the Franks and TEIIs, affords more detail than any system I have personally heard. Yet, I can listen for hours. BTW, I have a pair of Elrogs waiting for me at the post office. Otherwise,I'd probably go for those used EMLs myself.
Rebbi, I think your experience in soliciting advice on the SET amp, and the outcome of the build, again underscores the necessity of an in home trial. Though you have fallen in love with the new amp,it is not working in your room with your music with your speakers. I waited a long time for my Triumph extreme IIs to come up for sale. I love them, but what does that mean for you? I also love the decapos driven by my 8 wpc Dynamo. Your 300B AN isn't getting it done with the decapos. You took a chance with the amp, but it may be hard to take chances on speakers and stay revenue neutral.
Rebbi, Sorry, and mildly surprised, to hear that your AN 300B is not driving your deCapos entirely to your satisfaction. I have no experience with the kind of music that is not being reproduced acceptably, but I can imagine that a sustained high current demand could be an issue.
I agree with Charles that you are probably not going to be satisfied with another push pull amp having experienced what a good 300B is like. In addition to my deCapos, I have a pair of Coincident Triumph extreme IIs which I prefer over the deCapos. They are dead neutral and have better coherence than the deCapos. They are very fast and revealing. However, they come up for sale rarely, and I would not recommend them for use in a room that tends to have a live acoustic.
Charles, I found that running the dedicated circuits easily made as much, and possibly more difference, as adding the CV387s and WE 101D replicas. The existing AC in the music room was pretty bad. Everything was very grainy, and I could actually hear a pop in the speakers when I turned the lights on and off in the room. Everything is smooth as silk now. I plan on adding the Environmental Potentials whole house surge protector and waveform corrector, as well as the EP ground enhancers for the two music room circuits.
I'm a ways off from the coupling caps. I noticed that VH audio has some new copper coil VCaps. I might be inclined to give those a try, given the recent hype about those caps and my previous very positive experience with VH audio.
Charles, I'm in the process of setting up the main system in Tennessee. I had dedicated circuits run a couple of weeks ago. Best move I ever made! Oh my, what a difference!
I'm using a long wall configuration. I'm sensing no room related problems for the first time, and the clean AC is just wonderful. I don't have the speaker positioning dialed in yet, and my rack is still in indy. Even so, this is the best I've heard from the system. Can't wait until all my stuff is here and I get finished with the AC. Wow, this is fun! Such lovely music!
Len, I do have some Stern recordings I really like. I heard him live once, back in about 87-88. I have never heard a worse sounding recital. It was like really bad 1984 vintage digital. I could not imagine how he could make his instrument sound so strident.
Charles, Of the three you mentioned, a priori I would buy them in the order Melos, Berg, and Emerson. A word of advice. Schubert knows his Schubert! He has directed me towards some recordings I truly treasure. I've never been a huge fan of Stern, but Tortelier was something special.
A place to start with Maisky might be his recording with Daria Hovora "Songs without words." This is music Schubert wrote as songs to be accompanied by piano. These have been reworked and presented as cello/piano duets. Tampering with Schubert's Lieder takes a brave soul, but Maisky and Hovora present some beautiful music here. As usual, DG sonics lags well behind the masterful musicianship. A recent release by him features Spanish music, and he is accompanied by his daughter. I also think this is worth having.
Another recording you might like is a disc by Truls Mork entitled Nocturne. It features music of Chopin.
Charles, it occurred to me that you might like to investigate some of the recordings of Micsha Maisky. He is a portage of Rostrapovioch, having studied under him at the Moscow conservatory. He is a superb musician, and it wouldn't be much of a stretch for me to name him my favorite cellist. His works with Martha Argerich are of the highest quality.
As usual, Al is dead right. The Schubert quintet is a masterpiece. I have two modern recordings, by the Belcea quartet and by the Artemis Quartet with Truls Mork. I prefer the Artemis/Mork. Looking through other available recordings, I would be interested in hearing the Guarneri, the Tacacs, and the Vogler.
Charles, your analysis of my situation is spot on. It is hard for me to use restraint in dealing with bullies. I was the guy that took down the locker room bully. This just wasn't worth the trouble.
My two favorites with LvB piano are Brendel and Schiff, both of whom have been criticized for overly intellectual interpretations. I do like others that take more liberties, but they do not wear well with me for Beethoven. Small doses on occasion can be very rewarding, but then it is back to my old standbys. As I said, LvB and Brahms are for me left brain composers.
Arguments about what is the correct approach I will leave to Frogman and Learsfool. For those of use who are consumers rather than producers, it is a case of preference and sometimes mood.
Schubert, in particular, is a right brain listen for me. His music is generally exquisitely well crafted, but his craftsmanship hides behind the shear beauty of his work.
Check out "the dreams and prayers of Isaac the blind" on youtube. I suspect you might really like this work. I have a recording by the Vogler quartet that is one of my most treasured recordings. I love this work, and it is one that just rocks the emotional buttons.
Once I get moved and settled, I will be toe dipping into some Jazz. I always liked what I heard of earlier Miles Davis stuff. He lost me along about the early 70's.
Charles, the Tatiana/Monk duet would be heavenly, without question. For most of the last 40 years, I have been a classical purist. More recently, I have become more open to classical crossover. The Yo Yo Ma group dipping into a classical/bluegrass fusion is very appealing to me. Ma is not my favorite cellist by a long shot, but I appreciate his ambassadorship for classical music.
Charles, The "Russians" had a set up for training somewhat akin to the Soviet run Olympic mill that churned out some spectacular talent. The state was going to sanction certain activities and support them well. My daughter's teacher was a Ukrainian educated under the Soviets. She was excellent. While the Soviets, especially under Stalin, could make life quite miserable for composers, I have not heard that performers were singled out for persecution (or prosecution) for displeasing the man of steel. It is possible that the Russians had an advantage in sustaining and growing their performance legacy over the Germans. The atrocities of Hitler decimated the performing arts in Germany.
Rostropovich was special. I have never heard a negative word about his musicianship. I also never had the pleasure of hearing him perform live.
I have heard Starker, Ma, Mork, Gerhard, Bailey, and Harrell live (most of them more than once). Of those, Lynn Harrell gave the most memorable performance. Hands down, the best Dvorak concerto I ever heard.
I gave a listen to the Nickolayeva LvB sonata 32. It was excellent, but I don't think it hit the same button for me that it did for you. I will listen a few more times when I am not so stressed and exhausted. I suspect I would prefer her doing Schubert, Mendelssohn, or Chopin. I see LvB as a left brain composer.
The move and the closing were stressful and unfortunately contentious. The sellers broker was borderline sociopathic. They buyers weren't much better. The dark side is getting pretty dark.
However, I woke up Thursday morning having slept on a blow up mattress in a cold house at 5 am and was very happy. My wife and I came very close to walking away from the closing. I was frustrated and angry, but I shut down the emotion and acted based on reason and will. It is very agreeable to return to the safe confines of your SET Bliss thread, where people treat each other with respect.
No internet, no tv, and alas, no music. Although the Franks made the trip with me, it may take two more trips down to get a functioning rig down there. Nice house, nice neighborhood, and we had about 8 folks from our new church down there show up to help us unload.
Charles, not to worry, my friend! There is a reason why I have probably a half a dozen complete cycles of the 32 LvB piano sonatas, and would like to own several more.
I think you have a good ear. I have not heard the Nickolayeva recording. I will check it out.
Please keep in mind that I am no expert on music theory. My last music class was 8th grade. But, for me, Schiff is one of my first choices a a pianist because I think he plays things straight up. Others may take more latitude or artistic license, and make some very worthwhile, compelling, and beautiful music doing so. Sometimes I want Schiff, sometimes I want Brendel, sometimes I want Lewis, or Ohlssohn, etc. Take for instance LvB sonata 25, 2nd movement. It is a barcarole, or venetian boat song. Schiff plays is as a barcarole, whereas Ohlssohn plays it as something somewhat unlike, to my ears, how I have ever heard a boat song played. Ohlssohn's version is wonderful, compelling beautiful, and just plain brilliant. But I don't think it is what Beethoven had in mind when he wrote it. Neither version is necessarily right or wrong in my view. Both are very worthwhile. When my daughter was taking piano lessons and competing, she (at her mother's encouragement) endeavored to make everything (LvB, Mendelssohn, you name it) sound as much like Chopin as could be managed. Some of it was quite beautiful, and she got everything from high praise to utter rejection from the judges.
I also react to music on an emotional rather than rational basis. Professional musicians are rarely granted that latitude.
Just got back from Tennessee. I'm wiped out. The Montreal winds above sounds very intriguing, esp the LVB 7th. By the way, the LvB 7th 2nd movement is another piece where one will find an amazing diversity in interpretations. More tomorrow.
Charles, I think I could go live in a cave, provided it had clean mains, and be perfectly happy with the equipment and music library I currently own. As I listen, its very easy to conclude everything is just perfect as it is. Then, one of my AG colleagues comes up with another sweet find, and sure enough, it gets me just a little further along. It is all the more gratifying when the cost is so reasonable. As I have said previously, the caps are on my to do list.
I am currently enthralled by a JS Bach organ work playing in the background, and am drawn to the living room to give it my full attention as it surely deserves. But I need to finish boxing and packing the things from my library. I will load the first truck Monday, drive to Tennessee Tuesday, close on the house and unload the truck Wednesday, then return Thursday.
Part of my rig will go with me on the truck. It is going to be a bit painful "amputating" a portion of the rig Sunday evening. It will be good when all is finished, and my wife and I are fully settled in.
Charles, I don't have the Leipziger's recording, but I do have a large number of the Leipzig Quartets recordings on MSG. They could be the core group for the recording you mention, with additional members of the Gewandhaus added. They now record for the M&DG label, which is another small german label with generally superb sonics.
Charles, sonata 32 is Op. 111. I have two recordings of the septet. The Scharoun ensemble recording on the Tudor label is a fine sounding recording and a good performance. The Op 71 sextet is also on that recording.
As for the Op. 111 Sonata, I probably have a dozen recordings. I'd probably recommend Andreas Schiff on ECM. He is one of my favorite active pianists, and as usual, the ECM recording is superb. Beethoven's development of the 2nd movement is sublime. You will notice the music that begins to emerge as ragtime like, to my ears, at about 4:40 or so in the second movement, and really takes off at about 6:20. Various performers will interpret this music in wildly divergent ways.
Charles, the Op 20 septet was scored for clarinet, french horn, bassoon, violin, viola, cello, and double bass. It was one of the few pieces he wrote that was wildly popular in his lifetime. It is a well crafted piece of music, and the interplay of colors and textures is just wonderful. It is a treasure from his youth. Between the telefunken 6922s sweetening the violin, and the Cv378s rendering the horns so well, this was just a joy to hear tonight.
BTW, check out Beethoven's last (no 32) piano sonata. It was a "radical" piece for its time, written in two movements, shortly before his death. As the work develops, one can sense that a launching pad for ragtime piano has been built, in my estimation.
The character of this work is quite different from those written in his youth, like the septet. It has been observed that Jazz arose from Baroque music, although I think that is an oversimplification. Beethoven's music derived as much or more from Bach than from Haydn and Mozart. It would not be a surprise, had he lived a few more years, if his music has moved even more strongly in that direction.
Shawbros, interesting comments. I've not tried the Millard gz34s in the Frank's, but I have not been overly impressed with the black bases in other applications. For the most part,I actually prefer cryoed new production gold lions. I'd love to try the metal base, but they are pretty hard to come by. I think the greater sag on the cv387s is good with the Frank's. Just listened to the Beethoven Op. 20 Septet. Every thing was right. I am eager for your thoughts on the fat bottles.
Charles, Hoyer is a Cleveland native. The hometown boy has more support than any QB since another local, Bernie Kosar, lead the team to some notable near misses with the SB. As for me, he has won me over. Thinks like Kosar and plays like Brian Sipe. What's not to like?
Johnny Football will get his shot in time. For now, he has a new nickname. Johnny Bench.
Len, they just bought land 4 miles from my new house. One of 4 new sites in the country this year. Not so scarce as you might think. Pretty decent presence in E. Tn. No snake handlers for me.
My new insurance agent down there has Bach as a surname, and yes, her husband is a real Bach. Sadly, they are Steeler fans. Must be a decedent of Johann Christian Bach.
We close on the new house 2 weeks from today. No takers on the house in Indy yet.
Sunday was a comedy. Started off awful, ended up sweet!
Len, that is a profound observation, even by the standards you have already set. In a single phrase, it captures exactly the best spirit of this forum.
Charles, Good to know that you are hearing an improvement right out of the box, as I did. The tubes will continue to improve with additional hours. I think we can consider the CV387s a must have item for the Franks at this point.
BTW, as my Telefunken 6922s burn in, it is becoming clear that these are just spectacular tubes. They are giving me an incredible sweet, delicate tonality! Violins, voices, and woodwinds in particular are to die for, without taking anything away from the lower frequencies. I think this is proving to be one of the most important purchases I have made recently, and that i saying a lot . I now have a sound that in this respect is better than anything I have yet to hear anywhere. The telefunkens in the ModWright and the Mullards in the Franks has really made the rig something very special and unique.
I'm following the grounding discussion with a great deal of interest. This looks to be one of those areas that I investigate for a year or so before acting, but this does look like a possible opportunity for me to experience another quantum jump in performance. This is why I called you more of a coach than a cheerleader. When you speak, I learn!
It is nice to see this kind of consensus developing on the Mullards. It really helps all of us when we have such a highly discerning group of owners sharing their findings. I agree with Davids take on the tubes, and pretty much hear the same qualities with the exception of being more quiet. My GE 5U4GBs were fine in this regard.
Charles, Thanks for the comments on the Jupiters. At a certain point, that kind of upward step is about all that is left for us. It could be argued that that the only "transformative" tweak would be a live performance.
I got my telefunkens installed last night. I was very happy with what I heard. They added both sweetness and texture in the strings, and there was something mighty nice in the vocals going on. Was it a transformative tweak? No, but it was easily worth the $270 the tubes cost me.
On the other hand, I recently added Audio Magic umbilicals to carry DC from the power supplies to the players, and that tweak was substantial enough that it was nearly transformative, so I keep my eyes and ears open for those rare opportunities to get a jump in performance.
Meanwhile, I look for opportunities to address whatever minor aberrations in timbre may remain. I will certainly keep the Jupiters on my list and make that happen when the time is right.
It has a nice run down of a lot of tubes that might be used in the Franks. The fat and skinny bottle CV378s are compared. It is hard to know if the difference in performance is consistent tube to tube, amp to amp, and ear to ear, if you catch my meaning. Really, where is that tube lending library when you need it? If I were still rolling in the big bucks, I might give them a try. Cue the violins, here comes the living on a fixed income speech. No, maybe not, but retirement does present its mindset adjustment hurdles. I think I will hold that $600 investment for my 300Bs when the time is right.
I do hope you find your skinnies to your liking. They are doing some nice things in my system. I got my telefunkens for the ModWright Sony today, and I have about an hours worth of mundane whatevers to do before I get to do some listening.
Charles, I agree on the Franks being keepers. I will certainly be holding mine, at least until Israel releases MK III. :) Once one gets a piece worth holding forever, it makes sense to spend some cash equipping it with the best tubes one can find. The Wagner operas I listened to last night just came alive. I think my Mullards are improving with burn in.
I'm going to wait a year before replacing my 300Bs. I'd like to get a feel for how the Psvane WEs and Elrog tubes stack up against the best current offerings. The statement from Elrog that their target is to be at least as good as the original WEs got my attention.
You are a brave soul, testing the ebay waters.
I've got some Telefunken EC88s coming in for my ModWright HAPZ1. Can't wait to get those going. I really expect great things out of them. Things should be sounding pretty good once those are burned in.
Charles, Update on the CV387s. I do really like these tubes very much. I listened to Das Reingold and about half of Die Walkure tonight. Glorious, glorious, brass, wonderful texture in the strings, Oh, my! I'm going to stick my neck way out here, and agree with Israel. These tubes are a must have item. Let me know if you (when you) acquire a pair.
I've been lurking in the background on your Jazz recommendations. May try to pick up a few of these myself. Good music is good music. Genre is a consideration for librarians.
Charles, replacing the GE 5U4GBs with the Mullards was a little different than the 101Ds. The performance gap is no where near the gap between the Shuguang and WE replicas. Perhaps about as great as the difference between the HiFi and WEs. What is did was mitigate a long standing (12 years) problem, most noticeable as I said earlier, in certain recordings of French Horn solos. If that is all it offered it would be worth the cost. As a lover of Jazz, you also will be especially interested in anything that impacts brass instruments.
As you know, I really prefer not to share "impressions" without having them supported by a careful A/B critical listening session. But as I said earlier, Israel considers them the "best" with the Franks, and it was clear to me that they were better than the GEs straight out of the box. I will want to compare carefully horns, trumpets, trombones, tubas etc to determine that taking the edge off the horns has not adversely impacted upper harmonics on the brass.
The Mullards should be given another 60 hours or so of burn in before doing the comparison. Glad I picked up a pair before he sold out, but I/m guessing he will be on the look out for more, or perhaps one of the tube specialists has a supply.
I had followed the copper foil cap discussion with interest. I won't make any mods until I am out of the warranty period. Is the replacement easy, or did you have it done by a local tech?
Charles, The Mullard CV387 was recommended by Israel. He has them in stock, so I got a pair from him. I can't find a date code on the tubes, but the skinny bottles were made at the Blackburn plant in the late 50's and 60's. From what I have read, the earlier fat bottles were made at a different plant, and are superior to the later skinny bottles but are pretty pricey.
What I like most about this tube is that it has mitigated an overly aggressive presentation of French horns that has been a long standing problem. It has persisted through several speakers, amps, sources, and preamps. I assumed it was a room problem. I've probably got 20-30 hours on the tubes, so I still have a way to go I imagine. But it was clearly superior to the GEs right out of the box.
Knowing what a perfectionist Israel is, I find it prudent to consider his recommendations carefully. I sent him an email inquiring about another rectifier I wanted to try in the Franks. He directed me toward the Mullards, and I am quite satisfied with what I have heard so far.
David, could you share with us what tubes you found to your liking? I recently bought a pair of Mullard CV387s from Israel, and they are a substantial improvement over the GE 5U4GBs that came with my Franks. I think I am going to stick with my PSVane T 300Bs for now, but I would be interested in trying something different on the 6em7s if you found something special.
Thaluza, I had to laugh. I started down the road with a CSL 16 months ago, picked up triumph extreme 2s 6 months ago, and just bought a pair of Frank's. I'm seeing a pattern here.
Charles, I could be wrong, but it is my understanding that the 101D tube never really took off in terms of use, so I'm guessing there may not be a wealth of classic designs using 101D tubes as a starting point for understanding what this tube can do when properly implemented. One of these days, after I get moved and find myself snowed in with nothing to do but stare out the window at snow capped mountains, I will see what kind of information is out there on the history of this tube.
We owe Israel and others who are using this tube in current designs a debt of gratitude for resurrecting what appears to me to be a forgotten relic of the 1930s. We also owe a debt of gratitude to Shuguang for doing the work to make the tube available, and to Psvane for their work in providing substantially improved tubes.
Charles, good question about the 101D not being used much. My guess is that it goes back to the history of the tube, which apparently lead to poor market uptake. That also lead to the current state, where NOS tubes are completely unavailable. Israel took a bit of risk in using the tube. At the time of design, there was only one source of tubes. Even now, there are just two sources.
Also, implementation of the tube is tricky, if for no other reason than that it is highly microphonic. As you know, Israel put a lot of effort into mitigating this problem in the CSL design.
I bought my CSL about 18 months ago, convinced it was one of the best preamps money could buy. That was with the Shuguang tubes. Clearly, the CSL is taken to a much higher level with the WEs. At 6K including the WEs, the CSL is a pretty sweet deal.
The delicate decays are really special in these WE tubes. The tubes reveal nuances that just aren't there even with the HiFis. Of course, I got a double helping of nuance when I brought the Franks home. In fact, I strongly suspect some of the stunning attributes of the 101D WEs weren't making it through the Carys.
Charles, if you recall, I gave the 3 tubes the following ratings. Shuguang 80, Hifi 94, WE 100. All of my tubes are well burned in. When I first played the WE tubes the gap between them and my Hifis was discernible but slim. The gap between the Hifi and Shuguang tubes was enormous immediately.
Maybe Pap got a set of duds. I seem to recall another fellow preferring the Shuguangs over the Hifis, which I can't see at all.
Be that as it may, we all seem to be in agreement on the WEs. They are pricey, but when you have a suburb piece like the CSL, it is not really hard to justify spending the money.
Charles, I thought of you a couple times earlier today and almost posted to see if you had the tubes yet. I think you summarized well what I have been thinking. The hi fi series tubes are really very good at the asking price, and represent a great value. The WE tubes however, certainly bring a bit more of everything to the party. Good as the hifis are, once you get a taste of the WEs there is no going back.
Isn't it amazing how such subtle changes can make such a large impact on our emotional responses to music? That this principle applies to performance is well established, but really, just a little more bite in the brass, just a little longer decay or a sharper attack, a bit of sweetening in the strings--makes all the difference sometimes.
Charles, I have owned 3 hondas in a row, but I suspect I could adjust to a Porsche without much trouble. The Triumphs and the Franks are just better in almost every respect. That is an easy adjustment.
One of the big challenges with large panels is "right sizing" of solo voices and closely miked individual instruments. Maggies and other large panels have a tendency to present anything closely miked as much larger than life. The triumphs get this right, even with closely miked subjects. As for large scale orchestral works, I find that the Triumphs present the work from a mid hall perspective and present a very convincing sound stage. Localization of brass, woodwinds, and percussion from behind the strings is also very well done. Center fill and depth are great. I also think (my opinion only) that dipoles are at an inherent disadvantage with respect to confusion of image and instrument localization because of the front wave/back wave delivery, not to mention this really throws time alignment out the window. So why, one might ask, was I ever attracted to Maggies? The answer is that until the Triumphs came along, I could never tolerate the lack of timbral accuracy in box speakers under 17K. As you know, timbral accuracy is mandatory with acoustical instruments. Add to this the uncanny coherence of the triumphs and the tight, fast bass, and you have a speaker that is just plain better than the Maggies and delivers everything that is really important to me.
I've heard it said that 300b SETs are not the thing for classical and especially orchestral music. I think Israel's use of the 6EM7 makes the Frankensteins atypical 300Bs. As long as they are paired with 92-94 db efficient speakers, I think those amps will handle any kind of music you throw at them.
I spend a large proportion of my listening time listening to chamber works , lieder (art songs) and solo piano, all of which are a close analogy to jazz in terms of ensemble size. You won't be surprised to know I feel just as strongly about how well the Frank/Triumph pair handle smaller scale works.
As I said before, this amp speaker combo delivers exactly what I have been looking for. With my new ModWright HAPZ1 source, this is just a happy, happy time. I am so drawn to listen I'm having a hard time staying focused on my work here. I nominate the Triumph Extreme IIs as the best kept secret in all of audio. No 3K speaker should be anywhere near this good.
Charles, I agree, there is no predicting how a given individual will respond to any given component. I have read with amazement of people dismissing various Coincident products as nothing special. I've been just as amazed to find numerous people (and reviewers) impressed by components I find, in my own house, with careful audition and comparison in my main rig, to be quite unremarkable.
I've identified a number of AG members who clearly hear as I hear, and I take their comments, experience and advice very seriously.
I took a chance on the csl based on your comments, reviews, and Israel's description of his design philosophy. To put it mildly, that was an experiment with a most agreeable outcome. When I began to think about building a bedroom system, I was determined to snatched up the first pair of Triumph Extreme IIs that came up. I was immediately stunned by the virtues of those little monitors and how they outperformed the Maggie's in so many respects.
It was hardly a huge leap of faith to go with the frankinsteins at this point. The Carys were mighty good amps and paired well with the Maggies, but they won't be confused with a good 300b SET. As good as the Franks are now, I can't wait for the burn in period to complete.
Charles, one last comment on the WES, which I mentioned previously. They need 10 minutes or so with the mute engaged. There is a lot of popping going on, and they pick up any mechanical vibration at all. After a few minutes they are not unusually microphonic.
The Frankenstein/Triumph pairing is superb. It is awfully close to the PRE/Frankenstein pairing I heard at Midwest. I can't put into words how completely blown away I am by the Franks.
I am experimenting a bit with using my rel subs to get a little more response below 40 Hz. I found the Triumphs don't fall off below 40 as rapidly as the Maggie's did, so I was actually getting more at 31 Hz from the little monitors!
I plan to give every thing a good 6 months of burn in, then I will be thinking about some new 300b tubes. I am very pleased with what I hear from these black bottles, but I know there are better tubes out there.
Charles, I finally got the long anticipated a/b/c in on the 101Ds. Bottom line is that I do not think you will regret the purchase. I selected two pieces for the evaluation. The WE replicas are quite clearly the best of the 3.
The Shuguangs were relatively lifeless A/b'ed against the WEs and also against the Psvane hifis. I couldn't wait to get them out. If I gave the 3 tubes a numerical rating, I'd put the Shuguangs at about 80, the hifis at 94, and the WEs at 100.
The WEs are slightly more resolving, have more air, richer harmonics, and better dynamics on attacks with substantially more nuanced decays compared to the hifis.
In my estimation, well worth the substantial markup in price. I eagerly await your take on the tubes.
Charles, I hear you. Every time I walk past the living room I stop, look in, and smile. I want to stop and settle in for a listen.
Honestly, the last time a purchase meant so much to me I was 16 and completely enraptured by my first car, a 1957 Bell Aire black coupe with chrome reverse. As you might imagine, I rue the day I sold that car. At 61 I have enough wisdom to avoid a similar mistake.
I got a chance to give Israel's extreme cables a listen. They are 2x the price of my current Audio Magic liquid Airs. The coincident cables lift a very slight veil, and remove a very slight nasal tonality. They are also very slightly more revealing, in this case revealing just a wee bit more of the utterly angelic loveliness of one of my favorite vocal works. I suspect I will be keeping them. I strongly expect that I am done building. The rest is tweaking. Well done Mr. Blume.
Charles, Having been married to Magnepan for 23 years, it felt odd boxing them up. And those so Cary amps were no slouches. But there will be no looking back, no regrets. What I am hearing is really what I've always been looking for. I am thrilled with this system.
There is some burn in on the transformers and tubes. Even now, the finesse and delicacy in the instruments and voices is just something wonderful. It compels one to listen. It engages the emotions. No, there will be no looking back.
Charles, I know you are still waiting for your 101Ds. I picked up my Franks yesterday, which will "force" a bit more critical listening time. I do hope to get an a/b/c done sometime soon.
I couldn't bring myself to go to bed last night until I almost broke my neck with a head bob as I drifted off. Oh my! How wonderful everything is together. I ended up with PSVane black bottles. Also brought home a length of coincident extreme cable for evaluation.
It was a great day yesterday at Midwest audio. Those PREs are pretty special.
Charles, I just checked with Rachel. They got the tubes in yesterday, so I should have mine in a week or two. I will keep you posted.
I share your sentiment on the HiFi series tubes. They are mighty good tubes. I also have one of the new Sony HAPZ1s set to arrive this PM. I expect to send it off for a ModWright mod later this month.
I am really enjoying the Triumph Extremes I bought from Jimmy. I have a hard time containing my enthusiasm for those little monitors. They are really overachievers, probably delivering more bang for the buck than anything I have ever bought. Leaves me wondering what kind of bliss emanates from your total eclipses driven by the franks.
Charles, I ordered from Audio for Less Ltd. in China. They have already shipped. They indicated I would have them in about a week, depending on how long it takes to clear customs.
Charles, yes the Carys actually deliver 1000WPC into 4Ohms. They are good amps, and ensure the maggies have all the current they need. They are very good. There is no rush to replace them.
Just ordered the Psvane 101Ds. Let's stay in touch on how these stack up against the Shuguangs. If they take the CSLs up a notch, that is going to be something very special.
I take it Israel is also going to the Psvane 300Bs too.
Charles, thanks for checking with Israel. Looks like its time for me to order a pair as well! As for the dragons, I have wondered the same thing, and Israel told me he has customers driving Maggies with his amps. It could be heaven with some music, but I would have reservations about how they would serve Mahler and Shostakovitch. My Cary's are good but not the end of the road. They will not be the last amps I own. Think, think, think, think some more, then buy. That is the plan.
Charles, agreed on the Psvanes. I google 101D every once in a while and this is the first time the PSvanes came up. I will probably give these a try at some point. PSvane tubes are generally pretty well received.
I saw the remote control CSL and the new integrated amps--looks like Israel has been busy. At some point I'd love to put together an all Coincident system. The only hang up is that my current set up is so good I just can't bring myself to mess with it. If I could find a used pair of Triumphs I'd be off and running on a bedroom system.
Charles, by all accounts, the ModWright Oppo is an improvement on the Sony, and it has not totally fallen off my radar screen. It's not a huge investment, assuming normal resale value for the ModWright Sony. I have an undefined, but relatively short, period of time prior to retirement with the usual list of things I need to get done before the cash flow equation changes. If the ModWright Oppo happens, great, if not, as Bach would say, Es ist genug! The listening sessions are all about music at this point, not about reflecting on my next upgrade with music playing in the background.
Charles, I had to laugh a bit at your statement about your components not going anywhere. Funny how Coincident does that to you! I am (I think) at the same point, where fine tuning is the goal. I am so happy with my rig that even the planned update of my ModWright Sony to the ModWright Oppo is on hold. There comes a time when contentment is a very good thing.
