Hi Miguel,
You know the high regard I have for you products and that I love your Tripoint Troy. The attraction I have toward the Maestro is performance/cost ratio. I expect this cord to sound exceptionally good. Fernando voicing it with your Thor power cable as a template just inspires more confidence in it. His cords are priced in a very comfortable range for me. Miguel your products are targeted for the "ultra" 'cost no object' segment where you've enjoyed much earned success.
Charles,

charles1dad February 24, 2015 07:49

To clarify my last statement not better than the Tripoint Thor Silver or Hybrid. Winner against anything else available in the industry. I do trust Fernando's ears. Someday I recommend you hear the Tripont Thor SE ground cable in your system. Happy Listening.

himiguel February 24, 2015 07:09

Charles, Fernando uses my Tripoint power cord as a benchmark to voice the Maestro to be as close as possible to the Tripoint Thor power cable. To this date the Thor Silver voicing has no peers. I 'm sure the Maestro outclasses most power cables in the industry. By the way Tripoint does make a Tripoint Thor hybrid silver / copper power cable that is my favorite.
Maestro is a winner according to Fernando.

himiguel February 24, 2015 07:02

Bill,
Yep, I agree there are good and bad products with either metal. I've been using the same Coincident cords I got with the CSL and Frankenstein back in 2009. These are very good and have out performed more expensive ones I've had here on loan. If comparing copper and silver with well implemented high quality products, the silver version is consistently more natural/organic with purer tone and timbre.It isn't a 'night and day' difference, but there is a subtle change that I notice. Well anyway that has been my experience. It's as if silver reveals more of the innate character of a component. That's definitely a plus for a good SET amplifier. I sometimes wonder how a silver wired Frankenstein would sound compared with our copper wired amps. It's fun to speculate. With the Maestro power cord, the conductor is silver plated copper but the connectors are pure silver. The connector metal does plays a significant role in terms of the final sound character. Fernando is definitely a 'natural' sound type of guy, so his Maestro has me interested.
Charles,

charles1dad February 24, 2015 06:14

Charles, I've heard some really good silver (VH Audio again) and some really good copper (Coincident). I've also heard plenty of bad silver and bad copper. Out there in left field is the Audio Magic liquid air stuff. It is also very good in my experience. Once I get all of my gear down here, I'll be needing some new PCs, so I will look into the Cruze First stuff. That is a new name to me.

brownsfan February 24, 2015 01:46

Somewhere down the line I'm going to try the Cruze First Audio Maestro power cords. I like Fernando and trust his ear. He sold me my Coincident speakers and the Tripoint Troy.Both are purchases I'll never regret. He uses pure solid silver(unplated) for his connectors at both ends. I'm just sold on the use of silver. Each time its added to my system the sound improves and becomes more natural. No doubt Israel's new cords are a serious contender. Israel doesn't care for silver but I certainly do. I realize there's more to it then that, but silver justs seems to be right for my taste.

charles1dad February 23, 2015 22:15

Charles, I am using VH Audio AirSines with the Furutech FI-50 plugs for the Franks. I bought those for use with my Cary amps and switched them over to the Franks when I sold the Carys, so they are the only PCs I have ever tried with the Franks.
As for the Elrogs, they are getting better with additional time. I'm done for the night. I can see it is not going to be easy getting anything done this week. ; )

brownsfan February 23, 2015 21:45

Hi Bill,
Well I read your email and I'm not surprised by your initial listening results. It seems the Elrog 300b is as good as their 845. Very good sounding right out of the box and already surpasses the Pavane at this early stage. That's why I felt comfortable posting what I thought earlier. I was confident you'd be very impressed with the Elrog-Frankenstein pairing. The good news it will only get better as the tubes accumulate hours of use. You made a wise purchase Bill. Just curious, what power cords are using for the Frankenstein?
Charles,

charles1dad February 23, 2015 21:15

Charles, My initial reaction to the Elrogs is very favorable. These are good tubes right out of the box. Check your email for more detail.

brownsfan February 23, 2015 20:51

Cal 3713,

I used an outstanding Sonic Euphoria transformer-based passive line stage for about 10 years, and recently went to an active tubed line stage.

I'm on a limited budget, and like to build things, so I bought a preamp kit from Transcendent Sound. The kit is just $499, and some may consider it absolutely low-brow, but the way I configured mine, I like it better than the SE passive.

I used a Goldpoint stepped attenuator (with Bent Audio Remote Volume Control, Clarity caps output caps, and NOS Amperex 12AU7 tubes. It works a treat in my system, but then, maybe I'm too easy to please ( I don't really think so, but I thought I'd just throw that in).

Just a suggestion, something you may consider to get you by, until the right preamp comes along for you.

Best regards,
Dan

islandmandan February 23, 2015 20:27

Charles,
I'm told Dr. Schaffernicht did his homework with all of the available 300Bs, including NOS WEs. Will it be the right tube in our amps?

As you know, everything starts with quality workmanship, attention to detail, but in the end, a butt ugly tube that sounds like angels is OK with me. That said, visually, the Elrogs are stunningly beautiful to behold! Much as I like some of the Psvane tubes, I have had issues with the quality of workmanship more than once. The system is warming up with the Psvane Ts in place. Stay tuned.

brownsfan February 23, 2015 18:15

Hi Bill,
I 'm glad you're doing well despite the on going long distance commuting. Bill I've just spent the past 2 hours listening to Jwm's system. He installed his new Elrog 845s in his Absolare Passion PSET amplifier. we're good friends x 23 years and live only 10 minutes apart. I listen to his system often and know it very well. He's been using the Pavane W.E. Replica for a long while and it's a very good sounding tube.

The Elrog 845 is superior in any and all facets, no room for debate in my mind. The Elrog is splendid! Improved resolution, detail and clarity from top to bottom. Does this bring along the baggage of analytical edge or clinical character? Nope, the presentation is rich, full bodied and vibrant, beautifully organic. Tonality is just natural and on the mark. This is a superb tube and it brings the music alive.

If the Elrog 300b is cut from the same cloth(I'm sure it is) you are in store for a thrilling upgrade based on my experience with its 845 sibling today. We're talking a different tube and amplifier I realize but I'm very optimistic for your outcome. I have heard 10 different 300b tubes in the Frankenstein. The transparency of this amplifier easily reveals each tube's character and individual sound quality.
Charles,

charles1dad February 23, 2015 17:50

Charles,
i'm still commuting back and forth between Indiana and Tennessee. I'm far from settled in anywhere at this point. Let's see, Indiana has my wife, my dogs, and my dynamo/deCapos, while Tennessee has my Franks/TEIIs and my mountains. In between, I have 400 miles of mostly beautiful scenery, even in winter. I am eager to clear out of Indiana, but, life is good, even as things are.
The change in my system was more a quantum jump than an evolution, and the change was precipitated more by my purchase of the TEIIs than the CSL. As you recall, I bought them to run in a head on comparison against the deCapos, with the winner being retained as a starting point for a bedroom system. It took about 15 seconds to figure out the TEIIs really outclassed not just the deCapos, but also my Magnepan 3.7Rs. That changed the game entirely, and the Maggies were leveraged against the Frankensteins.
I picked up the Elrogs at the Post Office a while ago. I will fire things up shortly. I expect a lot out of these tubes, based on some things I have heard. But we will see. The tough part is that it is going to take a painfully long time to get a good burn in of the tubes accomplished with my current schedule. I will pm you some first impressions later today or tomorrow.

Also, I am thinking seriously about getting an Audio Magic umbilical for the DC from the CSL power supply to the preamp. I replaced the DC cables on my ModWright sources last summer and was blown away by the improvement. I guess there is just no end to the fun!

brownsfan February 23, 2015 17:03

I've had some interest in trying a passive pre-amp in my second system.

I did an experiment the other day running my mhdt paradisea tube dac directly to the tad hibachi monoblocks. Each monoblock has an input level adjustment pot that can be used to control volume. This bypassed the NAD unit I use normally as a (active) pre-amp. So this was source running directly to amp and using pots on teh amps to control volume.

The sound was much warmer this way. Much different from all the other A/V analog sources I use in this system (tuner, VCR tape, phono, DVD player).

I think this helped me realized that that a passive may be best for letting the sound of specific source devices come through, whereas with teh active pre-amp, all sources have more of a common sound, provided by teh pre-amp, although each still exhibits unique attributes of each source.

The tube DAC sounds unique and changes with different tubes and is distinct from teh others still but all share an inherent touch of warmth with moderate detail imparted by teh NAD (pre-amp section of an 80's vintage 7020 receiver).

mapman February 23, 2015 16:50

Cal,
I am bias in favor of good quality active preamps. The high level of your system would exploit what the active has to offer. Something to consider.

charles1dad February 23, 2015 15:54

Honestly, I'm still adjusting as I've had two separate job interviews (three weeks of hard prep preceding each) plus Thanksgiving and Christmas since I first bought the SEIIIs. Plus my Thiels were out of commission because I had a bad midrange driver that they had to repair... all of that conspired to really limit my attention and ability to A/B everything. I'm just now returning to normal this week...

That said, I do appreciate the new system, it is more natural, although I've also lost my pre-amp in the process, and now have to rely on the volume control from my PS Audio DAC. It is clear that the new system will require some careful attention to everything upstream, as any high frequency glare or distortion is fairly obvious. I think I'll next have to figure out the cost/benefit ratio of adding a separate pre-amp. I know you love the Coincident LS, but that's a lot of money for a tube-buffer when I've already got a volume controlled DAC. Plus they seem to be super-rare on the used market...

cal3713 February 23, 2015 15:27

Meant Elrog and I tried to provide the video link, really good sound even via You tube.

charles1dad February 23, 2015 13:17

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qrMGOorjaM

Bill,

These elrods playing my kind of music.

Charles

charles1dad February 23, 2015 12:59

Bill,
It's been very interesting and fun to follow how your system has changed over the past couple of years(given the high quality of your previous system). To think that it all seemingly began with the purchase of the Coincident line stage. I totally understand the evolution.
Charles,

charles1dad February 23, 2015 09:13

Hi Bill,
So good to hear from you, I hope you're all settled down in your new home. Bill, a good friend of mine Jwm is scheduled to get his Elrog 845 tubes today for his Absolare amplifier. I'm curious to hear them, he is currently using Pavane W.E.845 with excellent results. I suspect the Elrog 300b is a superb tube and can understand why you went that route. Bill if you don't mine would you post your initial impressions? Between the Takatsuki, EML XLS and AVVT SL32 I've spent enough money on premium level tubes. For certain the new Elrog is in that class as well. I know that Thomas Mayer thinks very highly of this tube. Elrogs and the Frankenstein, oh boy!
Charles,

charles1dad February 23, 2015 08:55

Charles, what is so remarkable about the Franks is that they accomplish such a high level of resolution and detail without introducing any listener fatigue. My current system, with the Franks and TEIIs, affords more detail than any system I have personally heard. Yet, I can listen for hours.
BTW, I have a pair of Elrogs waiting for me at the post office. Otherwise,I'd probably go for those used EMLs myself.

brownsfan February 23, 2015 08:07

Cal,
Regarding the EML XLS I understand, you can't do everything at once and some things have to wait. 500.00 for a pair is money well spent when the time is right for you. It sounds wonderful and is built to last for many years as well. Israel Blume designed the Frankenstein to be very easy on the output tubes. Heat dissipation is a conservative 25 watts, this amp won't eat up the 300b tubes prematurely. So that 500,00 will go very far in terms of performance longevity.
Charles,

charles1dad February 23, 2015 07:51

Cal,
Your went from a very admired SS amp(a class A Pass Labs) to an 8 watt 300b SET. Was there a period of aural adjustment required for you or did you immediately like the different sound? Was that the bigger change or was it the Thiel to Coincident speaker? I believe most people who move to a good SET amplifier are pleasantly surprised by the level of transparency and resolution. The stereotype expectation is warm cuddly midrange and rolled off everything else. In my case the degree of improved inner detail and nuance retrival exceeded expectation. It's these little but important factors that increased the sense of realism.
Charles,

charles1dad February 23, 2015 07:33

Yeah, it's been an interesting journey in stereotype breaking... really the whole way, since I chose a 30 watt amplifier for my Thiels (vs. 400 and 500 watt options of similar quality). Just goes to show that there are a lot of opinions out there, and it's always YMMV. I'll post some more comparisons and thoughts on the new system sometime in the future when I'm feeling reflective.

Also, there's literally a pair of EML XLSs ($500) that just got posted a day ago (the first ad in the tubes section, even). Unfortunately I'm still in the process of selling off the old system and can't afford to make any new purchases yet. I'm almost fully doubled up right now.

cal3713 February 23, 2015 01:38

Hi Mapman,
My exposure to hearing class D amplifiers has been mainly at shows, dealer demos and occasionally someone's system. I don't keep up with them more than that. It's impossible to hear everything that's available not to memtion in one's own system. The class D amps I did hear weren't bad at all. None of them had the naturalness and tactile presence I desire. It was very obvious I'm listening to electronic reproduced sound. With really good tubes and especially SET the 'human' realism is an entirely more convincing organic experience. that's just me, you could feel just as strongly that class D provides that organic realism for you. That's why I don't argue and debate this aspect of audio. People just like what they like. Islandmandan has a class D amp now that he loves as much as his SET 300b, so there you go.
Charles,

charles1dad February 22, 2015 18:12