Charles, just installed Duelund caps on my Zu Def 4s tweeter filter network and Lundahl Hypex sub bass amps.
A true Eureka moment, and these special spkrs have taken yet another leap fwd, the biggest yet, and maybe the last save for a few power related changes.
First the mids and highs were a lot sweeter than I expected, since the fear w/Duelunds is that they can be pretty meh out of the box. What a bonus, and now so much to look fwd to over the next 500 hrs of break in.
But it's the sub bass that is most spectacular. First the new modules have cleared up some persistent hum/noise the original amp modules were prone to. Second, the bass is just a quantum leap better in all respects - cleaner, punchier, more extended, just the right amount of warmth, and behaving like true sub bass for the first time, agile, sledgehammer, but w/zero overhang. My $4k has been really well spent, what an understatement!

spiritofmusic July 01, 2015 19:22

Charles, I concur w/yr Elrog comments, but having switched to Nats w/ '48 NOS GE 211s, I'm not missing the pair I used in my Audion 845s. Nat still providing the proverbial "iron fist in a velvet glove", but not at all at the expense of liquidity and tonal density. Nats are a total giant killer at the price.
Glad you found all your system pics. Where were they? Had they fallen off the wall when a large lorry rumbled past yr house? LOL!

spiritofmusic April 13, 2015 19:35

Charles, I'm going to stop hogging your thread! Just to say that I'm getting a balance of involvement and analysis that I really thought wasn't possible. That's to say the system w/the Nats is so revealing that small changes in cart VTF/spkr toe-in etc are instantly noticeable as good or bad. But this is never at the expense of involvement so that as I continue to dial things in, the endorphin levels keep rising.

spiritofmusic March 22, 2015 06:23

Certainly has Charles. And again my thanx to you for reeling me in when I nibbled at the SET bait some 24 months ago. The Nats are right up there w/the 5x pricier Koda setup I auditioned 12 months ago. This is no mean feat, w/the Koda feted in uber audiophile Asian circles where money is no object. The Nats have the beating of the Koda w/greater grip and bass control, so even more amazing.
Fascinatingly, at the exalted level of communication I'm achieving, ANY changes good or bad to my system are instantly perceivable e.g. +/-0.01g vtf, small degrees altering toeing in/out of spkrs, a-b comparisons of cables, etc. I often in the past really found changes hard to decide on, but now, no ambiguity.
God, I'm turning into a borderline sad reviewer type! LOL!

spiritofmusic March 21, 2015 22:16

Good to hear that Charles. Tbh, there wasn't really a choice since I bought ex-demo, and it's the new, current models that run the GM70s. I have to say the amps are totally opening up, and I am speechless w/what I'm hearing. I have no fears I'm losing anything w/the NOS '48 GE 211s. So much so I'm going to purchase a spare set of quad matched bottles.
Just listening to Ornette Coleman's "New York is Now" and "Love Call", and I'm knocking at the door of the studio. I can literally smell the cigarette smoke LOL!!!

spiritofmusic March 21, 2015 19:54

That's right Charles. GM70s replace 211s on current models of SE2SEs, not for SQ reasons, but because of the short supply of NOS 211s.

spiritofmusic March 21, 2015 14:53

Jwm, pretty hot, as you'd expect a quad of 211s to! The transformers are pretty warm too, all 4 of them, and this is a consequence of driving my pretty big space. Good thing the Zu's are 101dB/m eff!
I'm not a Basis owner, but it's enlightening to know Nat is not a total secret, and is the choice of such an eminent engineer as AJ Conti.
I have an audio buddy who's journey is to replicate the space and power of live orchestral w/mch and dsp/optimised subwoofers. A noble aim.
For me the Holy Grail is to get close to solidity of sound and energy of real instruments/voices live in situations like jazz clubs, and even buskers at subway stations.
My journey started w/balanced power to aid dynamics and low noise, then tone dense, x'overless horn-like eff Zu spkrs to max out tone, then Audion SETS to give me texture and presence, then Entreq grounding, which like your Troy, helps w/spatial cues and image stability, and finally the Nat SETs which saturate the sound to bring the substance of real instruments/voices ever more real, and w/no time smear that lesser tubes can fail at.
I think I'm getting there, the Nats being a massive step fwd twds tangibility.
Solid state amplification recedes ever further into the past...

spiritofmusic March 20, 2015 07:44

Charles, I've dropped ten big ones (£s not $s) on a suite of ex demo Nat Audio amps, the Utopia 2-box tube line stage, and SE2SE 211 SET monos, at 75W/ch. Tubes are NOS 1948 GE 211s.
Much as I loved the Audions (Black Shadow 845s and Quattro dual mono line stage), they were a little lean thru the mids into the bass, and a tad underpowered at 25W/ch in my 9000 ft*3 volume space. But beyond criticism otherwise, and I'll always be fond of them as my first foray into the world of SETs.
But the Nats take things up a level or too, more grip and control as a result of the greater power output and bigger, beefier transformers (the Black Shadow ones always seemed a little insubstantial).
Most critically I'm getting an amazing saturation of tone from mids into bass, which is making for more compelling, immersive listening, replicating the sound of live music and real instruments more convincingly and w/the fantastic lack of time smear, temporal cues are so much more evident that the illusion of reality comes ever more into focus.
Solid state amplification seems like such a distant memory now...

spiritofmusic March 19, 2015 20:26

We'll see. I really don't want to give up just yet, but this has to be the final shot. My nature is to support the "little guy", but not at the expense of my frayed nerves LOL!

spiritofmusic March 04, 2015 18:31

Brf, sadly I'm coming to agree w/you re Elrog 845s. I'm about to go onto my second replacement pair, that's three pairs in just 8 months. They sound positively dreamy wrt the rather bland stock Shuguang A's, and for a while you're transported to Audio Heaven, but then the hum/buzz/100Hz harmonics start, so strong as to vibrate the drivers themselves, and the Elrog spell is broken. If the Shuguang B's really get within touching distance of my Elrogs and KR's, but w/no reliability issues, then it's a no brainer to move over.
So I'll give a last pair of Elrogs a go, but if this ends in frustration, I'll move to the B's.
Just to add a twist, I'm going to audition next week the Nat Audio Symmetrical preamp and SE2SE SET monos using NOS 1948 GE 211's, one pair per channel, at 75W/ch 3dB louder than the Black Shadows.
Btw, don't worry about monopolising Charles' thread, I'm sure he's happy essential tube advice is being made known, and I have him to thank for easing my passage from SS to SETs, and now you for getting my tube choice correct.

spiritofmusic March 04, 2015 16:49

Early, your feedback on Shuguangs is much appreciated. Do you have any experience of the Shuguang C (Iron base)?
It seems my choice is Shuguang B, Shug C, Pvsane T/11, Pvs T/11 Mk2, and Pvs WE Replica/Extreme.

spiritofmusic March 04, 2015 09:09

Charles, I believe the stock tubes are Shugang A's, Early is talking about B's

spiritofmusic March 03, 2015 05:53

Early, thanx. Assuming greater reliability of Shugang Bs, how does the SQ compare w/the KRs and Pvsane WE Replicas?

spiritofmusic March 03, 2015 05:33

Well, it's not just me. They are hand made, and the bias may vary btwn pairs, and within pairs. The Black Shadows I've recently learnt can't be user adjusted for bias, the humbucker is internal, and so any pair ideally have to be adjusted for back at the dealer. What a palaver that certainly makes tube love tough to justify from a practical standpoint.
There are many comments here on Elrog 845 frustration.
But don't get me wrong, the SQ is STELLAR - I will certainly be sad if I have to move away. Not a synergy issue, def mechanical/electrical unreliability.
I can stand a fair amount of hum, but harmonics at 100Hz are just too much. My dealer has exhaustively gone thru the amps and there are no faults in the units, we just can't get one tube to behave. It may be the heater.
So third pair will need to be asked for.
Hence my revisiting Nat Audio, and the SE2SE's which use pairs of '48 NOS GE 211's per channel

spiritofmusic March 02, 2015 20:23

Charles, can you stop me tearing my hair out? I'm struggling w/Elrog 845s on my Audion Black Shadow SET monos. They sound fantastic, trouncing the stock Shugangs, but after 8 months it looks like I need to send them back to Germany for a SECOND replacement pair.
The KR 845's have a bad track record, the Pvsane WE Replicas can be v.noisy leaving the Pvsane T-11's.
Your thoughts? Really v.little choice of "posh" 845's.
I'm on the verge of passing on Audion for Nat Audio SE2SE SET monos which use 2x NOS 1948 GE211's per channel.

spiritofmusic March 02, 2015 19:15

Charles, I've put myself under the spotlight. Tbh, I'm a little tired of the sniping the objectivist crowd are guilty of indulging in, grounding being a prime target of theirs. I absolutely believe in maintaining max skepticism, but if the listening experience is substantial, maybe one should bow to the feeling, and actually be open minded to it. My thoughts on Entreq grounding are effusively enthusiastic, as are yours re Troy.
I've put a little challenge to someone on another forum board who totally disses grounding to do an ad hoc blind trial - let's see if it happens. I actually did a deliberate disconnection/reconnection, and I was anxious I might have $6k worth of egg on my face if it all appeared to be placebo/expectation bias, but the negatives of non grounding were immediately apparent i.e. shrinking of the soundstage, less solidity, and greying of the tonal palette. Reinstalling immed brought back a fair degree of magic, 24hrs more wait should be totally magical.
Now I've done it!!!

spiritofmusic November 22, 2014 21:11

Charles, I've really got lucky w/my Audion Quattro 4 box tube pre>Audion Black Shadow SET monos>Zu Audio Definitions Mk4 full range driver/high efficiency spkrs. I don't know about poor SET>spkr matching, but this is the exact opposite. Now, every time I make a change to my system (recent Elrog 845 tubes, Entreq grounding, Sablon power cords, Westwick 8kVA balanced power, Symposium Isis isolation, and even magnetic feet for my tt), I can immediately pick up on how the tonality of my system is altered. But this analysis is never at the expense of pure enjoyment. I could never go back to my belt drive tt/SS amps/ineff spkrs/non grounded components.

spiritofmusic October 18, 2014 17:29

Charles, lovely things really do come in 4's - 4 leaf clovers, and now the Audion Quattro 4 box preamp. Oh my gosh, so sweet and transparent, w/out the slight over bass/cloying Koda pre, fast and dynamic w/out the hash and slight shrillness of my Hovland.
I'm sending this message to you from Heaven - because I just died and went there!

spiritofmusic June 28, 2014 18:55

Willdo Charles. The Koda left a BIG impression on me. It ordered the sound reducing a lot of tizz/hash, instilling a sense of ease that is rare in audio. Music seemed to slow, but this was a positive in that nothing was rushed in any way. Even more positive was a revealing of layers and textures in the low end that gave a real earthiness to the presentation. In comparison my Hovland on it's return seemed a lot more ragged and noisy in comparison, with a distinct coolness to the presentation esp. wrt lack of real bass depth.
BUT i do feel the Hovland had the edge in terms of excitement, the Koda a little too lush, and the 24 step volume control just a little too coarse re fine adjustment wrt 38 steps on my Hovland.
If the Audion Quattro can approach even 50% of the Koda's positives, with a real synergy w/the power amps, I'll be bowled over.

spiritofmusic June 23, 2014 18:36

Charles, thanx for all your replies and input to all my queries SET related, you've v.much helped me make that initial jump away from SS end up a success.
I've just taken a punt on the Audion flagship preamp, the 4!!! box Quattro (dual mono/dual psu design). The handful of reviews on the web seem to put it right up there, and I'm hoping it'll form a great synergy w/my Audion Black Shadow SETs, giving me that extra bass texture/warmth I'm missing w/the Hovland pre (that I noticed esp w/my Koda K10 trial). It was being advertised w/the cap upgrades Audion recommend at a price less than a third of rrp - too good to turn down.
I'll keep you posted on the outcome. I do have a 2 wk return period, so if I get nowhere w/it, I'll get my cash back.
My first issue is, where in blazes do I situate this thing?! 4 boxes is an ergonomic challenge to say the least.

spiritofmusic June 23, 2014 05:14

Mr. Coltrane should have my moniker "spirit of music", Just love the power and soul of those Atlantic sessions, a true spirit indeed. What tone!!! All conveyed to the heart by SET's.
Grounding really clears the hash to let the message come thru unhindered.

spiritofmusic February 14, 2014 07:57

Absolutely, Charles. The goosebump feeling on familiar tracks, and new appreciation of songs I used to pass over in the past, are major benefits of the SET presentation.
My experiments on installing 50's Telefunken tubes in my Hovland pre, and changing the stock 6H23N and E182CC tubes on the Audions, has been totally positive, so I'm confident substituting the 845's will be similarly beneficial.
Loving the fact that the foundation of the system stays true, but supercharged by these mods.
Recently listened to the early 60's Coltrane Atlantic label lps, and I've never felt more connected to the big man's miraculous brilliance.

spiritofmusic February 14, 2014 03:52

Just when one thinks there's an exit from all this high end madness, the journey just keeps stretching on...
I have to say the move to SET's has been totally instructive, with the holistic listening experience putting all the distortion figures to bed.
Having sorted out balanced power, grounding and vibration isolation in the last year, with the irreversible move to SET's and full range driver Zu's, my listening enjoyment has gone thru the roof.
My last big areas of expenditure look like these tubes, and investigating the Sablon cables further.
It'll be strange approaching this 90% of final destination stage (I'll reserve 10% for another left field upgrade, whatever that will be).

spiritofmusic February 13, 2014 19:57

My Audion dealer recommends the KR, so I'm v. tempted to go for a pair of these and the Pvsanes. Maybe many roads to tube nirvana.

spiritofmusic February 13, 2014 19:27

Interestingly, I can currently get a pair of these Psvane WE RCA 845's for the same price as a pair of KR 845's. The latter is recommended by my dealer, but he can't access them for a while.
Maybe I'll get both (sorry for the strain, dear credit card!), and do a little a-b. Always handy to have a spare pair in case of failure anyhow.
Each time I think I might move away from my Hovland HP200 (and I'm sorely tempted by the Wyetech Labs Ruby Std and Nagra Jazz), it melts my heart. Since 2006, i STILL haven't heard anything that knocks it out of the park. A good chance that SOTA 845's will boost it's performance further.
And I'm just auditioning an amazing line of cables and power cords, Sablon Audio. Their Gran Corona power cord into my Hovland has taken it to an interesting new level, displaying extra layers of bass texture, but punchy and controlled, giving the system the missing body that it occasionally demonstrates esp via cd.
A snip at $1300/5ft, in the realms of extreme cable pricing

spiritofmusic February 12, 2014 19:55

Charles, thanx for your always-helpful replies to my qs. Your thoughts on the Pvsane We Replica 845's would be much appreciated. There is a pair for sale currently, but no return other than if defective.
You seem to give it a def two thumbs up, so can you describe it's characteristics in more detail?

spiritofmusic February 12, 2014 18:05

Oh you know, the usual thing. A better sound around the corner. Interestingly, I'm really happy with my new Audion SETs which have been a tone density revelation, forming a great synergy with my Zu Def4 spkrs. My tt/arm/cart combination is a knock out. Just my cdp and possibly preamp might benefit from looking at alternatives. The under-the-radar Eera Tentation cdp seems to be a tone king, as does this Ruby Std pre.
Will keep them in my eyeline over the next few months.
Hope you're still getting the effects of Troy grounding? My Entreq grounding experience is proving to be one of the most surprising and positive ones in all my years of audio experimentation

spiritofmusic January 27, 2014 18:41

Charles, thanx for your input on the Wyetech labs Ruby Std thread. I was actually not in the market to buy a new preamp, my Hovland HP200 is still 8 years on hitting the right notes for me. It can occasionally seem to sound a bit lean with my current set up, but only in patches, and 99% of the time sounds on the money.
The Ruby piqued my interest due to the HP Soundings review which seemed to say it was an analog lovers dream really enhancing the tonal qualities of reproduction, hence like your requirements, this is ticking the right boxes.
I'm sure the reviews/marketing v.much said the same thing about the HP200 back in '05!

spiritofmusic January 27, 2014 17:39

Charles, you'd just LOVE my Zu Def4s playing Miles, Coltrane and Dolphy from the '60s. At a reasonable level. Although maybe we could crank it up a little for 'A Love Supreme' or 'In A Silent Way'?
Finding that the synergy with Audion SETs and noise floor reduction with 8kVA balanced power/Entreq grounding really allows me to see further "into" the music, obviating the need to turn the wick up. But great when I want to.

spiritofmusic December 02, 2013 19:49

Sure, Charles. Troy is a moot point for me anyhow, NO chance of a trial, no UK distribution. The UK rep for Entreq is one of the nicest guys I've had the fortune to meet in audio, and I've really been happy to spend my hard earned $s/£s with him and Entreq.
Agree with you, it's totally transformative, for me taking the best that the quantum leap balanced power affords me to another, ahem, quantum leap!

spiritofmusic September 26, 2013 04:38

Charles, the UK distributor of Entreq Silver Tellus states that his product and Troy work on different principles. Troy works on grounding direct to the mains and individual components' chassis' (ie the electronics directly - which is why the Troy ground leads fix directly to the screws on the chassis'). Whereas Entreq connects via the rca/xlr/phono jacks directly to the signal's ground plane.
But it is possible to get the best of both worlds - connect an Entreq ground lead from the distribution block (which is connected to the mains) to the Silver Tellus. Now we're simultaneously grounding at the level of signal plane AND mains.
And then like Agear states, one can ground the rack itself to create a Faraday cage effect.
I personally like the fact that Entreq allows grounding to a greater extent than Troy, and am really glad I've gone down this route.
I can tell you're ecstatic with your Troy voyage.

spiritofmusic September 25, 2013 18:46

Well Charles, you contributed massively to my going down the SET route. It seems I've repayed the favour re my advice to seek out grounding. Touche!

spiritofmusic September 24, 2013 06:49

Charles, glad you're "getting" the effects of grounding via Troy. In my system, Entreq Silver Tellus has been transformative, with several "did that really happen?" moments, and an amazing sense of ease, solidity and transparency enhanced in the presentation.
And I couldn't be happier with the cost at c20% of Troy! My next step after recent completion of 5 grounding leads completed is the add-on Atlantis which will aims to take the grounding capacity of the standard Silver Tellus to a much higher level. We shall see when I test it.

spiritofmusic September 23, 2013 19:09

Thanx Iso, I'm totally floored by the effects of grounding. To think, I just tried it initially on a whim, sure that I was not going to be impressed. It's not cheap, but has freed me from the self imposed chains of seeking out the "next best thing" in components. System upgrades rule!

spiritofmusic September 07, 2013 19:19

Charles, my SET grounding leads are breaking in after 24hrs. I've just adjusted the Symposium Acoustics Rollerblocks under my spkrs. OMG, I think I've had a bit of an epiphany.
It's like all the recent purchases in the last 3 yrs (non belt drive tt/SET amps/high eff xoverless spkrs/balanced power) that have bestowed improvements individually are being made to work as a team. Adding the 4th and 5th SET leads has made EVERYTHING snap into clear focus. I can't begin to describe it. I'm sure your Troy is going to do the same. Your jaw will hit the floor!

spiritofmusic September 07, 2013 17:58

Charles, now up to 5 grounding leads from components to Entreq (SETs just recently, in addition to Straingauge energiser, cdp and preamp).
Phenomenal. Getting a little warmth to add to the extra air, ambience and detail I got before the SET connection.
The great thing is that unlike switching components, if you're happy with the general character of your system (which I know you are) you'll be enhancing it to the max, not altering it.

spiritofmusic September 07, 2013 15:36

Charles, I'm going to lose any common sense credibility here, but what have you done re Synergistic fuses? Have you actually opened up your equipment chassis' and swapped out fuses? Other than removing components from the mains first, what are the considerations here?

spiritofmusic September 05, 2013 18:43

Hey Charles, good luck with Troy. As you know I've gone down the Entreq Silver Tellus route, which has more similarities than differences to Troy I'm sure, but at a fraction of the cost.
It's been a total revelation in my system, securing the soundstage to allow notes to bloom and decay naturally. Hash and mains borne noise/rf/emi really does seem to be a limiting factor, and once you're aware it's gone with grounding/balanced power, like the move to SETs, you'll feel whole steps closer to the music/message. Entreq is soon to release an add on Atlantis box to provide even more silver in the grounding grid and hopefully more noise elimination. I'll check it out.
Like you I'm getting off the merry-go-round of component upgrades and concentrating on system wide improvements - first Entreq Silver Tellus/Atlantis, then an uprated balanced transformer Westwick 8kVA, then trying a whole cable/power cord loom from one company, either Sablon or Zu, then finally extending Symposium Isis isolation across my whole rig.
THEN, I have the biggest decision of all - whether to spend a small fortune on the "Level 9" upgrade to the Audion Black Shadow SETs, approx £35k/$60k to uprate everything in silver incl transformer.
An interesting dilemma...

spiritofmusic September 05, 2013 05:43

Hi Charles, I'm totally in the SET way now. Talk about getting a whole layer closer to involvement with the music. Spooky!
Just a couple of thoughts re the increasingly acrimonious set of posts re Miguel's Tripoint gear and the guy who is shouting snake oil and wants to lift the lid on these boxes.
Personally, I've had some contact with Miguel re Troy, and I found his unremitting hard sell set my teeth on edge. I've found nirvana going down the balanced power route, but he claims those changes are insignificant compared to his conditioner which could supply a whole apartment block! with a couple of hundred high end systems!! and not break sweat!!!
I run my own business myself, and resent such self-agrandisement in the extreme. So I have no issue with hush-hush tech black boxes, even at the exhalted prices he charges, but rebel when the relentless hard-sell comes my way.
However, i DO believe in grounding and have gone down the Entreq Silver Tellus/Apollo route, at 10% of tripoint cost, to major benefit in my system.
Check out my thoughts in the "tech talk" forum. My guy in the UK is Fraser of Kog Audio. Splendid man, the v. antithesis of the hard sell, and a great company and product to deal with. Has transformed my system, along with balanced power and SET amps. No affiliation, just passion.

spiritofmusic August 08, 2013 19:05

Charles, just a word to thank you for guiding me thru the stressful lead up to auditioning SETs, much appreciated. You can mark me down as a total convert, the cheque's nearly written.
Decided not to go down the NAT route. From my limited initial trial, I'd say they are more propulsive than the Audions, but drew too much attention to the low end. The Black Shadows are a tad less powerful, but more transparent and less "attention seeking". And it did help the decision that the BSs are quite a bit cheaper than the NATs.

spiritofmusic July 17, 2013 18:44

Charles, I'm trying to reconcile what appears to be theoretically disparate end results - a change in the centre of gravity of the sound to a more bass propulsive presentation that I noticed with my couple of hours with the NATs, simultaneously enhancing the see thru nature of the mids and top end sparkle. My concious mind tends to equate more bass with likely obscuring of detail. And certainly with the NATs I was drawn strongly to the phenomenal bottom end performance.
My guess it will be analagous to going from typical tipped up xover-based spkrs I had previously to my tone dense xover-less full range driver-based Zu Defs - I certainly initially thought I was losing some mids based info with all the extra tone and solidity going on, but then realised it was being enhanced, and then I 'got' the Zu sound. Even more so moving from the 2s to the 4s.
Move from ss to SET will be similar but prob more radical. And I'm sure 2-3 weeks to immerse myself in the SET sound will be telling.
But I'm sure my Hovs will not be embarrassed.

spiritofmusic July 05, 2013 07:48

Charles, the big countdown to my SET shoot out has started. Week after next, Audion Black Shadows, followed a week later by NAT SE2 SEs. Then, back to my humble Hovlands.
I'd put money on SETs winning the day over my Hovs, just intrigued by possible paradigm shift in how I'll go on to listen to my music.
Leaving the Duelund cap upgrade well after this particular path is decided on.

spiritofmusic July 04, 2013 19:09

Charles, I've just received the Duelund VSF Black Cu cap network upgrade kit for my Zu Def4s. Think I'm going to hold back on installing them until I complete my NAT/Audion SETs v existing Hovland SS comparisons. Esp. since it'll take a couple of hundred hours for the caps to sound of their best.
Re my auditions - I'm going to have both SETs for about a week each. I'm thinking of listening to the Black Shadows first, then back to SS for a week, then the NATs for a week. Do you think this is preferable to back-to-back SET demos over a fortnight? The Hovlands are still my reference, and a midway familiar comparison point I think makes sense.
The Def4s are just SO impressive, that it's strange to think this potential amp change and spkr cap mod is going to complete my core component line up, with NO more changes, save to system-wide tweaks like supports/cables/power matters. Good thing too, since I turn 50 next year!

spiritofmusic June 24, 2013 19:58

Charles, just ordered the Duelund VSF Black Cu cap network upgrade for my Zu Def4s. Very much looking fwd to the results when they're installed.
Also will be auditioning some 70W/ch Nat SET mono amps in my system. Will be REALLY intrigued hearing these power the Zu 101dB eff spkrs.

spiritofmusic May 22, 2013 06:07

Charles, that sounds about right. I'm aiming for the Straingauge on the Salvation tt/Terminator arm being the end point for my analogue journey. This SET avenue needs to be an end point of sorts too. From what I can glean from the dealer, the NAT GM70s will have a little more drive than the Black Shadows, but it's likely to be a face off between these two.
At present I can't afford to go to the NAT Symmetrical preamp, and am hoping my current Hovland HP200 tube preamp will be a good match for the NAT or Audion. What do you think?
And then there is the Duelund VSF Black cap upgrade to the Def4s.
Phew! I need to lie down now.

spiritofmusic May 03, 2013 06:49

Charles, you've been kind enough to contribute to my thoughts on the Zu Def4s thread.
I really wish I hadn't heard those NAT SETs!!! I'm now so aware of grain, and limiting of transparency, my SS Hovland Radia power amp is imposing on my music.
My q is - what are the long term ramifications of finding the right SET amp for the long term listening experience?
This will be a real paradigm change, and if I go down this path, am a little anxious actually.
My choice is likely to come down to NAT SE2SE GM70's v Audion Black Shadows.

spiritofmusic May 02, 2013 19:16

Thanks Charles. Like you, I have specific boundaries on how much/where to spend cash. The main one is not the endless replacement of components in an upwardly expensive merry-go-round. A good example is that even though I know going SET would really work with my Zu Def4s, my Hovland amps show excellent synergy with the spkrs, and as a result I'd rather maximise their performance (and the spkrs) by tube rolling (in the pre) and in effect cap rolling/support upgrade in the spkrs.

spiritofmusic February 05, 2013 03:24

Charles, going to take the plunge on the Duelund VSF Black Cu network (cap and 2 resistors) for my Zu Def4s.
Re supports under the spkrs, I've had such good results with a Symposium Acoustics Isis rack for my main components, I'm going to try Symposium Rollerball Jrs instaed of the stock spikes (4 per spkr) on a Svelte Shelf (1 per spkr).

spiritofmusic February 04, 2013 17:01

Charles, I'm aiming to go down the Symposium Acoustics solution to spkr supports. Resting each of my 85kg Zu Definitions 4 spkrs on four Rollerblocks Jrs (ball bearing in recessed cup principle of isolation), this all sitting on a Svelte Shelf per spkr. A massive upgrade to the stock spikes.
In fact my system supports are upgrading to all Symposium, the only support/isolation product I've found that makes a significant contribution to clearing hash and maximising neutrality.
Another q re Duelund caps. Were you able to a-b the cheap Alexander v pricier VSF v priciest CAST Cu options? If so can you summarise the pros and cons of each?

spiritofmusic January 19, 2013 15:28

Charles, the Zu Def4s really are open and sparkling thru the treble. Hard to believe there's more openess to be had, but at £650/$1000, this is at the low end of any upgrade price otherwise. And I guess if they don't work the Duelunds could be disengaged.
I believe Sean at Zu is soon to offer cap choices as upgrades but at present the Mundorfs are the stock option.
Really hoping this all works to enhance the amazing synergy I'm getting btwn the Zu spkrs and Zu 103 cart, which as the main transducers of the system really are 'flavouring' the system beautifully.

spiritofmusic January 14, 2013 19:44

Hi Charles, I am actively investigating the Duelund Cu cap upgrade to my Zu Def4s' tweeter. I have had a quote from the UK dealer of £650 (c$1000) for the pair, but the range of available choices is a little bewildering, in the UK anywhere between £400 and £1500 (c$800-$2500). Do I assume he will have made the 'right' choice? If I want to be sure what do I ask for? I notice you specify 'CAST' but there is also Duelund VSF (?) Cu.
What am I expecting to hear with the correct upgrade? Will it be a wholesale change in nature of high frequencies, or more akin to a new component, or cable upgrade?

spiritofmusic January 14, 2013 08:43