The last visit was some weeks ago and we met us again, mainly to compare Phonostages with the identical cartridges and to check some settings.
I brought my own Lyra Titan i - mounted in the Arche Headshell - and my 71dB Lamm LP2 to compare the sonic impressions with Tables, Arms and Transistor Phonos (2xKlyne 7)...
Quite a task...

The Phonostages

Now 2 x Lyra Titan i

After a while we discussed about Phonostage Design, most we know well having a top System went all away from active High Gain Phono Preamps to Tube Designs with high quality SUT‘s. So we left the Klyne amps and concentrated the the comparison to the Lamm LP2‘s, specially the high gain unit from me showed after a short time its superiority and we stayed with that one. We think, they don‘t damage the Signal so much and you can hear a more lifelike reproduction with extreme finesse and colourful sound and Voices are reproduced with full emotional impact, the Bass is in a way stunning and can fill the room with the lowest registers. The preamps excel in layering the sound so that each voice or instrument can be easily picked out and followed. Yet everything played together well integrated.

The Axiom with Etna

In conventional - active - phono preamplifiers, damping is provided by load resistors. As a result, a significant amount of signal energy is wasted when converted to heat within the loading resistors. Conversely, when input transformer has been carefully engineered to effectively damp resonant energy occurring at high frequencies while transferring the maximum amount of useful lower frequency energy to the active input stage. This results in significant increases in dynamic range with no penalties of increasing noise.
Traditional step-up transformers fall short in many performance areas such as frequency response, phase linearity (group delay), distortion, susceptibility to external hum fields, and poor common mode noise rejection. This is largely due to design and manufacturing limitations of the past as well as the need for high step-up voltage ratios to meet the requirements of a high input impedance (47K ohms) input stage. Well, there are differences ....

I tried to make my first Video ever :-)
The first one I made in the evening, the Laser was seen very good but it was too dull overall, so I started a new one in daylight.The file is compressed from optical quality but I think it is ok. The Laser is seen in reality below 2 letters (the "CK") in the name Fruhbeck. I stopped after 2 minutes, I wanted to avoid the make the file too huge but the Laser was still below these 2 letters after 5 minutes. That's ok I think :-)
The most other turntables I checked with that unit were out of specs after 5 seconds....no matter 1, 2 or 3 motors, expensive motor-controllers, no matter how expensive....here you see clearly that marketing replaced engineered solutions...It measures the REAL speed when the diamond is in the groove. The force (VTF) is remarkable.
The majority of turntables run quite well when the Diamond is Not in the groove, but honestly, who is interested in THAT????
Performance is with tone, not without.
When I did the tests with adjustable motors while playing, they run out of specs (drift) and then I made the corrections, the difference in sonics is easy to hear. Deeper soundstage, no smeared dynamics and much better modulated details.
Today we have two "opinions":
The unit "does something", Product A has better bass, Product B is analytic and needs this or that cartridge/Arm for compensation or endless "updates" because the designer is unable to do something right, some call it Prat
or
the "Opinion" is based on software reproduction. The emotion is coming from the recording, the purest form of a sonic truth...
"Opinion 1" is"keep the business alive (those owners can‘t hardly wait the time for the next „upgrade“ and to recommend it to the others)
"Opinion 2" is "done right"

Some explanations for that video:
The laser in real life touches 2 letters (or better said, the width is 2 letters), that means, the camera cuts a little bit. But it doesn't matter because the red dot (reduced to a dot sometimes) is always in the same area. In the movie it "moves" a little bit from one letter to the other, but after a few spins it is below the 2 letters again...
I compared it with another video I made in the evening, there the red line is of course much better to be seen BUT it is also not in the length it has in reality. But here is doesn't matter also because the red sign is always in the same position, too.
I guess, with a good video camera is would be seen better, I used a normal pocket camera, IXUS from Canon.
But what is also interesting, I selected one of the most dynamic recordings ever made, that means, the groove modulation is huge!
And based on that, the result is outstanding good, normally such tests are done with a linear frequency sweep or low dynamic range. This makes it easier because the Diamond has much less works and the VTF is more stable in those limited grooves.
You will never find a comparison with such a dynamic recording, now you know the reason (smile). Yes, the Seiki construction is able to hold the right speed even when the groove distance has some lower peaks, it needs probably 1 or 2 rotations and then the dot is back in the former position. Not bad for a 25 year old Design :-)

Micro Seiki RX 5000 & Sutherland Timeline

Now, some may think, going back to old DD is the solution...well, they have a proper motor management but they are not able from construction to be named as "High End". Let's say, they work, they accelerate and that's it. You can compensate their weeks with colored cartridges but they are the way they are...endless vibrations into the platter ....
Their electronic corrects the speed permanently, "...accelerate--reduce---hold---accelerate--reduce---accelerate---ans do on and on" based on that, listening Piano with it is a pain for me. There was a demonstration about that in the Munich High End Show 2013. All visitors rated the DD negative compared to a regular running belt Turntable...but that is only one technical point, there are much more for a good reproduction.

syntax January 11, 2014 08:12

Syntax,

I must commend you on a brilliant system!! Wonderfully conceived with the most unique listing of pieces that is not just a "laundry list" of "look at me" products but a wealth of background knowledge and really helpful information...Well done!!

Azjake

azjake January 06, 2014 20:31

Syntax, your cynicism about audio is well articulated and accurate. However, my joke still holds a degree of truth. The road of excess still leads to....excess...:)

Congratulations again on your meticulously constructed system. The speakers in particular are a marvel and beyond the pale....

agear November 19, 2013 22:47

Thanks, I'll give it a try!
I do enjoy the VTA aduster on my 4Point on another table.

Richard

klinerm November 18, 2013 12:51

Hi Richard,
the main advantage from the B-60 unit is the ability to change the VTA very quick and precise. It is a very useful addition and I wouldn't be without it.
I have no experience with the replicas, don't know what material is used, but I would try it. I read some time ago the description from someone who made them at Hawaii, it sounded interesting. The original B-60 is very rare, more or less impossible to find.

syntax November 17, 2013 08:34

Hi,

Amazing system you have there, congrats on a lot of effort well-spent.

If I may pick your brain for a second, I have an FR-64s I'm about to mount on a Luxman PD-441. I noticed there is an A'goner selling replica B-60 VTA adjuster bases, I was wondering 1) do you think the B-60 adds that much to the tonearm's performance, and 2) do you know anything about the replica bases vs authentic ones?

Many thanks.

Richard

klinerm November 16, 2013 15:00

Hello Peter,
I share your impression but I am still curious, means I enjoy visiting Demos or getting in touch with owners. Audio is simple business, I mean, it was always business but the real clever Designers have a serious job, High End does not feed them good enough. It was better in the 80's and 90's, Marketing replaced that completely, with some very, very few exceptions (of course, every Audiophile has exactly that exception :-)).
But generally from my experience I would say, in the last 2 years there is a HUGE price increase for everything, most argue costs, precision and so on. That is a simple lie, there are customers out there who WANT to spend big bucks. They want the ODIN cable, the Clearaudio Statement Turntable...not because it is so good, no one is interested in that, no one cares, the reason is simply to have it, to buy something nice for themselves. Something the other one can't afford and based on that to move into a position to tell everyone how great that gear is. A toy store for adults :-).
Some time ago I was visiting an owner with endless units, and I asked him to tell me in a few sentences the sonic difference between his Lyra Titan i and the Olympos, both were mounted, he told me endless hours how great they are (because I didn't have them at that time and I was interested in those...) then he nodded and went to his mags to look what the reviewers wrote about those. I said, "no, please, use your own words, tell me the record and describe it..." I waited days and days... never got an answer.
That's the way it is, quantity of gear is rising all the time but the percentage of units which push the curtain doesn't. I listened to Ypsilon Phono Stage, Allnic, Burmester, Boulder 2008, the one from Vitus...and never wasted a second when I left.
But for others it's the holy grail. I respect that.
Well, the VP, that is something serious :-), it wasn't designed from a High End Audio Designer ( then it would cost 15k and would not work properly), that's a technical design with engineering knowledge behind.

syntax November 13, 2013 09:56

Syntax, that was in interesting history lesson. Do you think significant advancements are being made in audio right now? There is a lot of new gear out there, but I'm not so sure how much better it is.

I continue to be surprised when I hear a component that has been praised in the forums and in the Audio Press only to be disappointed when I actually hear it at a dealership, at a show, or in a friend's system. There is no substitute for hearing it yourself.

Your suggestion about the Vibraplanes under SS amps is one of the only times that I have actually bought something for my system before listening to it. And those are cheap compared to the sonic improvement they provide.

peterayer November 12, 2013 17:30

Well, to be very honest, I never had any problem with my wife. She never asked about the cost, too.
Well, just a little view back into History, let's start with the Aesthetix Callsisto Sign. as an example. Bought it based on ultra positive reviews from Audiogon owners. It was indeed a good unit. I wanted the IO Phonostage, too but I read from an experienced Audiophile, that the Rhea is more than 80% close to it for much less. I got it and it was a huge disappointment. To be honest, from my experience with other Phonos, I would rate it as a bad one. Sold it very fast.
After a while I read some stories about Lamm units, I was curious and bought a LL2 Preamp. I will never forget my reaction when I used it the first time. It was so much better from Tone than my super modified Aesthetix, I had problems to believe it. It was much cheaper and MUCH more sounding like the real thing. I tried to deny it. But the more I used it, the more I lost interest in that expensive Aesthetix. Some time later I bought Lamm ML2.1 and it was a sonic revelation with my high sensitive Speakers, I had at that time Pass Aleph monos, and they were really good (butter than any Pass amp I ever listened to). Ok, the System then way Lamm Pre and Amp.
And then I made the typical master mistake of all Audiophiles: I thought, when I will spend more money I will get a better result automatically, so I ordered Lamm L2R. Good as it is, but in combination with the LP2 Phono it was lifeless, slow, no bite, no speed, just ok. I discovered that LP2 has not a real strong output signal, the LL2 can handle it via its Tube output and it also has a strong output signal itself, the L2R simply doesn't have it and is also not the best possible match for the ML2.1 for similar reasons)....so I learned my lesson ... did I got wise? Well not really, I made the same mistake later with Lyra Delos and Kleos...but that wasn't so expensive....after all these years I think it is done now. I had a lot of gear and was able to compare it. It is the brain we buy (or what I buy), not the nice box outside....I stopped buying anything just based on enthusiastic "recommendations" from others in Forums, from my experience a few - are VERY few - are ok, but the majority has an relationship with the Distributor, Dealer or do someone a favor because they got something for a good price. I never was interested in that. I wanted a product which was done right, a product which really pushes the sonic curtain.
It is not that easy, the friends don't grow when I don't support Hype, some argue then, I have a Problem with a "Manufacturer" or something similar...I never was interested in such...the majority of Manufacturers where I think they are outstanding good/clever...don't even know my name (for example Basis Audio, Graham, Takeda, Lamm....)
But don't get me wrong, I am still very interested in Audio, I visit Demos .. but my demand about the Real Thing is probably a little bit different :-)

syntax November 12, 2013 10:29

'The Road of excess leads to the Palace of Wisdom'....

So Syntax, do you think that line will work on the wife after my next audio purchase?

agear November 05, 2013 22:44

Hi Again, Ah that input cabling to the PSUs look interesting did you redo those yourself? -also you are happy with the Supplies that close to the main unit and Carts?

Lovely setup by the way

Des

team212 November 01, 2013 18:44

The Vendetta Picture showed in the System is not an actual one. The Pic I have made from my Vendetta is simply too bad from quality.
Here is the Pic from it, sorry for the quality

Vendetta Research SCP-2T

syntax November 01, 2013 07:24

Hi, Great System, Just to say--are you sure you have a 2T Vendetta?--just I have one as well and the Fuses are removed in the latest Mod--yours are still showing.

Thank you
Des

team212 October 31, 2013 02:16

That Axiom looks very interesting. From the photo, the arm tube looks like it is going down and the heashell looks tilted up. I wanted to read more about it from the RMAF reports, but there was very little press about it. And unfortunately, Raul's arm was not introduced at RMAF as originally promised.

There are many good arms available now and I'm sure in time, the Axiom will be compared to some of the standard top tier arms as more people buy it.

peterayer October 28, 2013 16:30

Well, like I wrote before, that Table is seriously modified and it is definitely much better than stock. The Axiom Arm can't be compared to other Designs, it has some really interesting solutions, for example VTF can be changed while playing and that is really interesting from the results, the Arm can be leveled independently from Armboard "specs" :-) I am not really up to date with it, I think it can be mounted with a regular 9" distance...We listened to that Arm quite a while, I can't say how good it is finally, except 2 sentences: There is definitely much worse out there from sonics and I heard in that System a soundstage - counting rows from the musicians - with a holographic power I never heard before with that System. We used RCA Living Stereo with Male/Female Singers, Decca SXL with Classical Music and Blues (Singer+Guitar unplugged). These Speakers are remarkable.
Found some more pics

Axiom Tonarm Miyabi Cartridge

Some more Arms ...

Continuum Graham

syntax October 28, 2013 11:28

It looks like Daniel heavily influenced that Raven, from the arm towers to the Axiom tonearm to the platter. The Axiom looks very low in the back. It must sound great.

peterayer October 27, 2013 17:50

Your sharp eye got it fast. Yes, you are right. The owner never used his Raven much, he preferred his Kuzma Reference table. Based on some influence :-) he modified the Raven table seriously. He replaced all motors with better ones, wrote a new motor controller program, got a Vibraplane and an additional platter for vibration reduction with better arm raisers (same I have on my Micro).

Front End

The table is now in a total different sonic league, from optics it is a Raven AC but from internal know how it isn't. The owner is very pleased now with the results and we had a very good time together. I was interested mainly to hear his Verity Speakers, he is one of the very, very rare owners who used f-o-u-r Nagra 845 Amps and it was also my first chance to listen to that new Axiom Tonearm.
There are also 2 Kuzma Airlines which are on different tables, that was also interesting. Unfortunately I forgot to bring my own Titan i to that place….so we have to meet again in future :-) We also listened to an

Ortofon Cartridge

but not so much :-)….mainly

Kuzma Airline & Lyra Titan i

and

AS Axiom & Arche & Takeda Miyabi

There is also Wadia Digital available but in a way we missed to activate it…maybe the next time

syntax October 26, 2013 03:55

You forgot to mention the Vibraplane ("better suspension") under the Raven AC. That alone would improve the sound of that table considerably. I associate most of those components with an overall warm character, the Titan i being the exception. Glad you liked it.

peterayer October 25, 2013 17:50

Did listen to an interesting System Visit , will post some pics

- Preamp Nagra PLL & external PS
- Amps 4x Nagra VPA tube monoblocs with standard 845 tubes
- Speakers Verity Audio Amadis
- Turntable Kuzma Ref. & Kuzma Airline & Lyra Titan i
- Turntable ultra modified (new motors, new controllers, new platter, better suspension ….) TW Raven AC & Acoustical Systems Axiom Arm & Arche Headshell & Takeda Miyabi Cartridge + another Kuzma Airline & Ortofon MC 30
- Phono Lamm LP2 & 2 x Klyne 7

syntax October 25, 2013 14:22

I was just curious, I don't have an opportunity to buy SX-5000. TechDas is releasing a cheaper version of AF1, that I am interested in :)

dnath September 24, 2013 12:48

Record cleaning

When I started with Analog there were only a few record Cleaning Machines available, I bought a VPI 16.5 with my first turntable.
Now, with the analog revival the last 10 years much more units are available now.

Some general info about Record Machines:
Most think that speed/comfort is identical to superior cleaning. That is not true.
You can't have it all.
Some swear on various cleaning fluids and others think that their removal is the key.

Type: The fast ones

For example VPI, Nitty Gritty, Clearaudio and all which are based on that design (a vacuum slot with 1 soft lip in front of it and another one behind).
The user can choose any fluid he prefers, can scrub the record or not, can choose the time the fluid will stay onto the surface before starting to remove it. This Design is technically very simple and you will find a unit which fits best to your wallet. They all do their job (more or less loud, with some ear plugs are recommended) but after a while they reach their cleaning limit and it is done (Physics: sucking power with a wide slot can‘t serve the same power compared to a point nozzle design). When the lips are wet (specially the one behind the vacuum slot after a few Records, the drying process is not able to clean the record in a way that it will be without noise finally. You have to clean it again later.

Type: The comfortable ones

For example Audio Desk, a Ultrasonic cleaner and a new Manufacturer, KLaudio.
The AD uses the same fluid again and again, through filters, but from the technical view it is not a final solution. The filters can‘t hold back everything, the user can‘t use all cleaning fluids, it is a comfortable Machine with a lot of technical parts which can create problems after some time.Sooner or later most AD run into Problems, based on its technical Design.

Type: The best ones

For example Keith Monks, Odyssey, Loricraft. There was only one Design which solved all problems, that was the Keith Monks Design. A point nozzle design which removes the fluid groove by groove, nothing will stay onto the record. It is technically much more advanced than most think, because you need some motors for the Arm, the platter speed and the string which is responsible for a good move of the Arm across the record. I was shocked when I got my Keith Monks RCM (an old, used one I bought based on the technical solutions) and compared it to a pre cleaned record with a VPI (and I did not need ear plugs, it was more or less silent). The User can try all kinds of fluid, all he need is something which is able to move into the grooves. The removal is done with a point nozzle and high vacuuming power (it is simple Physics, sucking power per diameter) and the record is cleaned groove by groove and at the end it is always dry and clean (except the user flooded the record with so much fluid that it is too much for the nozzle, then he does it a 2. Time and it is done).
But it is logic, that this kind of cleaning needs time. It was made for professionals who cleaned records all day long and needed the same superior result from the first record to the last (in those days Libraries and professional record dealers, Studios...).
Keith Monks passed away and Loricraft offered a cheaper copy (more or less, they start cheap and when you want better parts they will charge you for that) from this Design. The Keith Monks was always a final solution. Pay and forget. There is also another one available in Germany, the Odyssey, it is from the former Monks Importer, same Design with a few improvements, but with superior technical parts (very reliable).
In audiophile discussions there are a few directions (speed, price, cleaning solutions...) and of course, being owner of "the best".
The definition of the word „best“ is like a car discussion. I think, it is more helpful to show, what is responsible for what and based on that knowledge, every reader can choose the unit which matches his ideas or Philosophy best.. I hope that my few lines will give some useful information about those units.
Each unit is better than doing nothing or using a wet towel.

The Records

This is also important imo, some have problems from the pressing plant (modern Reissues for example), you can clean them 15x and you will still hear an improvement, but they will never run really silent. Based on that we have the endless discussions about cleaning fluids, the cleaning time, enzymes and so on. I found the solution for myself: I trash them.
Older records can have groove damage, based on wrong VTF or defect diamond or bad Arm geometry.... then it is done, no way to improve them. Some have pops like mad, that can be based on blisters in vinyl or the owner before used alcohol and that one removed the elastic material in the groove walls. Then they are more or less defect too.
When you want to experiment, go for a normal, cheap, record, 80/90/100gr, made in the 70/80's, when they were sold in millions, the suprise is, they run always quiet, they have a lot of dynamics and when they are dirty, you can use the cheapest fluid and after one run they sound like new again. Music pleasure done right.

syntax September 18, 2013 12:40

Hi,

well, I listened to a modified RX-5000 (Platter) and a SX-8000 (Air bearing) with the same modification. Same Arm, cartridge, Phonostage....
I heard no differences. Do you have the chance to go for a SX-5000?
They are very rare I think.

syntax September 14, 2013 02:42

Hi, do you feel RX-5000 is superior to air bearing SX-5000?

dnath September 06, 2013 18:25

Audiophile + Amplifier = Problem ?

Here is the Solution. The one with his hand on the volume knob wins.

Always.

Tannoy Westminster 1

Tannoy Westminster 2

Tannoy Westminster 3

syntax May 19, 2013 12:02

title
Next Part of Munich High End Show 2013

Here are some Pics from pretty expensive System (I think, it passes easily half million $):

Kondo Japan Hardware with Living Voice Vox Olympian

Vox Olympian 1

Vox Olympian 2

Vox Olympian 3

Vox Olympian 4

Vox Olympian 5

That was an interesting experience for me. I listened to such Kondo units some time ago in a different System and was curious now how they perform with these speakers.
The idea behind High End is that all we are trying to do is to make equipment that gives the listener some sort of magical emotional response to a mystical experience called 'music'. That is all well and good, but it isn't what High End is all about. In fact, high fidelity was originally a reaction to the gorgeously rich-sounding console 'boom boxes' that dominated the home-music market during the 1940s! Such a System from Western Electric was not far away from that System...
Well, not matter what kind of music was playing, voices were very thin, notes had no weight or body and the singers or instruments had no "Gestalt". No matter how long I sat there I always had the same impression: "Great for background music while reading a newspaper..."
I thought, based on the enormous pricing those speakers will sound better but that kind of sound I heard in 30 different rooms, too, for much less money and when I listened to my inner voice, I heard a System for 20k$ which made a better job . But, the wood work is outstanding, the finish is really to die for.

syntax May 18, 2013 06:14