It must be nice to be done with your journey. Since you own many of these, your system must sound like the "Real Thing." Have you compared the Lyra Olympos to either the Atna or the Atlas and the Graham Phantom Supreme II to the Elite? Both of the designers prefer the newer models, so those might be worth pursuing.

Were your conclusions reached through direct comparisons in your system or in a more general sense of hearing many systems over much time and then extrapolating that one cartridge or tonearm or turntable is better than another because you liked certain systems more than others?

I'm not sure all designers of high end equipment have abandoned the goal of perfect reproduction of the sound of real music performed in a real space. Perhaps some have, but surely not all.

peterayer February 08, 2015 23:25

I used to own Pass/Eggleston. Very good combination. Those look like the XA160.5 amps. They would benefit from being placed up on Vibraplanes. This is the first positive report I've read from syntax about a TW turntable. I guess there were no speed issues with that very long stretchy rubber belt. I wonder if the owner has tried surgical thread instead.

peterayer December 09, 2014 12:02

Thanks for sharing these photos. The systems look ambitious and fairly complex. How did they sound and was analog preferred over digital?

peterayer December 05, 2014 16:41

Nice photographs. Thank you for sharing them. I've always wanted to hear a good horn/tub/analog system. How did it sound?

Interesting choice for an arm. SME seems more popular in Asia than it is in the US. I see a lot of SME V-12 arms on super tables in Asia.

peterayer December 02, 2014 20:24

Thanks Whart. Sorry Syntax. Back to your system.

peterayer October 18, 2014 21:42

Whart, I'm not surprised with this. A friend recently cleaned some of my LPs on his Audiodesk. I still heard some surface noise, so I recleaned them on my Loricraft and noticed an improvement.

But I have a question: if you wash in the KL and dry on a point nozzle type RCM, what do you do with the washed wet/bottom side of the LP as it sits on the platter of the point nozzle? It can only dry one side at a time.

peterayer October 17, 2014 19:42

Syntax,

If you don't dry in the KLaudio, how do you put an LP with both sides wet on the Monks machine for drying? I just saw a KLaudio machine for the first time and was surprise at how loud it is. People don't mention this. It can not be used in the same room as the system when listening to music, IMO.

peterayer September 13, 2014 16:49

Another fine post from Syntax. Clear and concise. Thank you.

peterayer August 15, 2014 18:21

Thanks Syntax. That is a pretty high output with a high impedance. I think mine is .5 and 1 ohm, which is very low. Is the cartridge available directly from Dertonarm?

His company seems to be developing some very interesting analog products. Is there any interest in a low impedance phono cable? I've been reading about the benefits of that for cartridge loading in Jonathan Carr's posts on WBF.

peterayer April 08, 2014 20:18

Syntax, that is quite interesting. How much does this new cartridge cost in US$ and how does it compare to your various Lyras? Do you know the weight and other stats or are they listed on the website? Thanks.

peterayer April 07, 2014 20:00

Syntax, The SME V-12 is a modern arm, just three years old, and it has dynamic balance. I once spent some time comparing the dynamic to static balance on my old SME V arm and I preferred the dynamic condition.

I think you are right that the other modern arms that people discuss, the Schroder LT, the Durand Talea and Telos, the latest Grahams don't have dynamic balance. It makes a difference.

peterayer February 22, 2014 03:27

Syntax, that was in interesting history lesson. Do you think significant advancements are being made in audio right now? There is a lot of new gear out there, but I'm not so sure how much better it is.

I continue to be surprised when I hear a component that has been praised in the forums and in the Audio Press only to be disappointed when I actually hear it at a dealership, at a show, or in a friend's system. There is no substitute for hearing it yourself.

Your suggestion about the Vibraplanes under SS amps is one of the only times that I have actually bought something for my system before listening to it. And those are cheap compared to the sonic improvement they provide.

peterayer November 12, 2013 22:30

That Axiom looks very interesting. From the photo, the arm tube looks like it is going down and the heashell looks tilted up. I wanted to read more about it from the RMAF reports, but there was very little press about it. And unfortunately, Raul's arm was not introduced at RMAF as originally promised.

There are many good arms available now and I'm sure in time, the Axiom will be compared to some of the standard top tier arms as more people buy it.

peterayer October 28, 2013 20:30

It looks like Daniel heavily influenced that Raven, from the arm towers to the Axiom tonearm to the platter. The Axiom looks very low in the back. It must sound great.

peterayer October 27, 2013 21:50

You forgot to mention the Vibraplane ("better suspension") under the Raven AC. That alone would improve the sound of that table considerably. I associate most of those components with an overall warm character, the Titan i being the exception. Glad you liked it.

peterayer October 25, 2013 21:50

Syntax, Your iPhone photo shows it as well as some other shots I saw on the net from CES on the TechDas. It looks like a standard black 12" Phantom spray painted silver.

One advantage of a 12" arm is the lower offset angle which means less skating force and less need for anti-skating. It is shocking to me that TriPlanar and Graham would release arms with no change in offset angle.

This must be a mistake. Are you sure that this is actually the case? And if it is, how can the web reviews of the longer versions be so glowing?

It is still not clear to me if the photo you posted is of the 12" Phantom or of the new 12" Elite. I know you are a big Graham arm fan, perhaps you could report more on the development of these two 12" Graham arms. Internal wiring is supposed to be much better etc.

peterayer May 14, 2013 12:47

For him not to change the offset angle with the 12" arm is very strange. Surely he can not believe this doesn't matter. This effects anti-skate, tracking, null points etc. So is this the Elite or just a 12" version of the Phantom II? I had read that the Elite is a whole new design with far superior sonics to the 12" Phantom. The silver finish also looks primitive and like a prototype, not a finished production model standard.

peterayer May 13, 2013 18:53

Thanks for the report. Nice photos as always. How do your speakers compare to the sound of those WE Cinema Horns? I agree we can do more based on some of the results of the vintage gear. But who has a room large enough to support such a speaker system? Even the D'Agostino and SF demo looks like it was in a huge room. Nice, but how realistic is that?

Will you be getting the Graham Elite? How do you think the 12" compares to the shorter Graham arms? I had thought that Bob Graham did not like 12" arms because the benefits don't outweigh the problems of longer arms. Or has he changed his mind?

peterayer May 12, 2013 20:21

Syntax, Those are nice photos. Thanks for posting them. I know performance on at least the Vibraplane/Benchmate can improve if the platform is preloaded with a steel ballast plate under the turntable to get the total load close to 275 lbs.

You write that the photos are for comparison. Do you care to comment on the different performance of the various isolation platforms?

peterayer February 11, 2013 01:35

Hello Syntax,

I wrote you a while back describing my Vibraplane and steel ballast plate under my unsuspended SME 10 turntable.  I preloaded that with the ballast and finished the steel in a nice smooth black surface.  The improvement was tremendous.  On your suggestion and perhaps on Dertonearm's, I have borrowed two more Vibraplanes for under my SS Pass Labs XA160.5 amplifiers.

All I can say is that you were so right.  They make quite a difference.   I thought they would for tube amps, but I'm surprised by how much they improve the sound of my SS amps.  Noise is lower allowing me to hear more information.  Distortion is lower, so everything sounds clearer.  Images are more three-dimensional.  Bass is more articulate and focused.  But what I noticed most immediately was how much more palpable and present voices are.  They are now in the room with me.

So, I have just found two used active Vibraplane units on Ebay and I plan to buy one new active unit from Sounds of Silence for underneath my new SME 30/12 turntable.  Even though my turntable is now suspended, there still is some improvement.  You probably noticed this with your Basis table.  My current Vibraplane is passive.  I have become tired of checking it for level and height before each listening session.  I generally have to adjust it once every two days.  This is easy, but I don't want to do it for all three units.  I think this is because I use a heavy clear acrylic dust cover for my turntable and that constant change in weight effects the pressure.

I plan to run all three units off of a compressor in the basement.  The two used units from Ebay are surplus lab units.  They are the standard blue with white vinyl tops and cheap trim.  Industrial aesthetic, not for audiophiles.  I am working on one.  I've stripped it, sanded it, removed the plastic top and will paint it black, add dampening to the underside and reassemble it.  I will also have two 100lb steel ballast plates made for them.

I'm really excited by the improvement these make to my system.  And the restoration project will be kind of fun as well as saving me some money because I bought them used for $500 each.

I want to thank you for pointing me in the right direction.  As with my new turntable, as they say, I can now close this chapter.  It's the best isolation/amp stand that I've found.  I'll send photos when it is all complete.

Regards,
Peter

peterayer September 14, 2012 19:19

Syntax, nice story about the amps with the small speakers. I, too, have big amps and small(ish) speakers and love the combination. I drink tea, and the same thing has happened to me.

I was at Sounds of Silence (Vibraplane distributor) yesterday and was treated to a wonderful system with six active Vibraplane units. Steve Klein is a wonderful and knowledgeable man.

peterayer February 19, 2012 03:44

One of the issues I see between the active and passive units is the constant maintenance of platform height and level. With my passive unit, I must re-inflate the pistons and then confirm height and level about once a week. I know Syntax does this much less often and perhaps there is a slow leak in my unit. I plan to check all hose connections and repair if needed.

With the active Vibraplane unit, height and level are automatically maintained by the unit and compressor so if the platter is on the VP and the motor and controller are on a different platform, relative distances are better preserved than they are with a passive unit that slowly decreases in height over time. This changes relative distances, belt/thread tensions and so forth and would effect performance.

So there is one argument in favor of the active unit as I see it or in something like the Halcyonics device.

There is no argument in my mind though, that proper isolation can make a tremendous improvement to an analog system.

peterayer February 14, 2012 16:21

Thank you Dertonarm. I'm curious about the difference between the active and passive Vibraplane units. Perhaps I will start a thread....

peterayer February 13, 2012 22:19

Hello Syntax,
Thank you for that very thorough explanation. I also enjoyed reading Drajreynolds' comments. I agree the Vibraplane is a relative bargain for the price and compared to the competition. I did not know the Minus K is less stable. Perhaps it has to be loaded very evenly to remain level because of the springs. I think I would like to own the active VP unit with the compressor though that is more expensive. I understand the issue with the rotating parts of the Micro Seiki being on the same platform and one advantage of the Vibraplane is that it is so large. Someday I may try the VP under my amps. Amp stands can easily cost more than $2K.

I'm not sure a completely agree with your take on the suspension of the Basis and SME tables. SME also uses a paddle and oil or silicone to damp vibrations in those towers, so it is not only the cheap rubber bands that are exposed/visible that make the solution. Perhaps it is not as elegant looking, but I think it might be equally effective.

You and Drajreynolds are not the only people to recommend the Graham arm with the SME table. I read that the Graham was developed on an SME 30 table, so it must be a great combination.

peterayer January 22, 2012 19:14

Syntax, Congratulations on a wonderful system which must sound great. I respect your experience and I have a few questions regarding your turntables.
I notice that you have two passive Vibraplanes. I also have one under my SME 10 table. I understand the use of the VP under the unsuspended Micro Seiki table, but I'm curious about the benefit of using one under the Basis table which already has a good suspension system. I ask because I am considering betting an SME 30 and I don't know if it would benefit by being placed on a Vibraplane.

Also, for the Vibraplane under the Micro Seiki, do you find there are any issues with the flywheel being supported by a fixed platform which does not move vertically compared to the table proper and motor which are on the VP and will thus move down over time as the air suspension on the passive unit deflates? I would think that the belt/thread would move and not be stable between the flywheel and the main table. How often does your VP need to be raised/adjusted? I check mine every couple of days and add air about once per week.

Also, do you notice any issue with the Micro Seiki motor vibration by placing the motor and table both on the same VP platform? My controller and table are on the same platform, but the motor itself is on the table. My controller vibrates a tiny amount and I would like to move it to a separate isolation platform, but I don't have the rack space.

Finally, do you have any experience with the SME 30? I have not read anyone comparing it to a Micro Seiki or to a Basis. Thank you.

peterayer January 20, 2012 22:54