When I retired in 2000 I had nothing to do and lot s of time to do it in. I thought that music was interesting and that Id try getting a really good system and seeing if I enjoyed listening to music. I bought a series of NAD and Onkyo receivers and amps and a pair of Dunlavy SCIV. The sound was much better than Id heard in a system and I thought this was great. I bought hundreds of cd, listened to the masters and decided I really liked music, most music. I still dont really understand atonal or people yelling at each other. I used to think rap was what people did on doors and tables. Id like to keep my ignorance in place on that one.
Then one evening I was having dinner at my usual restaurant hangout and after drinking a bottle of wine with a man who lived a few doors down from the restaurant, he invited me to listen to his music system. I was stunned. He had a Levinson Amp (331) with Teal speakers and Meridian cd and preamp with silver cables.WOW! I was in love. Id never imagined that sound from a machine could be like that. I do owe Tony a thank you, for he showed me the light. A switch truly went on for me that night. Thank you.
After about ten minutes I realized that my ears hurt. I knew it was too bright, but ZAP!
I wanted to hear that clarity, that detail and I wanted to hear it for more than ten minutes without my ears hurting.
So, out went the receivers (actually I gave them to my three children) and in came Levinson gear. Since, Ive been through ten or so amps and a few speakers and a few cables, cd players and turntables.
Ive learned a lot of what works and whats smoke. In wine, everything you need to know about it is in the glass youre drinking, right now. Nope, you dont need to know the grape pickers name, nor the vintner, nor the name of the town, plot or mix of fruit.
You just need to know whats in your glass. TODAY. I suppose by now youve figured out that Ive tried a few glasses of wine. Yup. I stopped guessing how many bottles Ive participated in after the 50,000 mark. No, that wasnt yesterday. The benefit Ive found of getting old is that you cant remember when you stopped remembering.
Ive come to see audio in exactly the same light as wine. Im interested in what works, I can hear and I can feel. Once it takes an explanation to decide if its there, its not. If it feels like the music is wrong, lifeless, brittle, bright or skewed, toss the gear that caused it.
Around 2003 I bit the bullet and flipped for the design and engineering of a room by Rives Audio. It cost me the rebuild of our home. I could not find a single contractor willing to take on the room project. They clearly were so nervous about the details that they would not do it. On August 25, 2004 the room was nearly finished and the equipment was placed in it to hear what money can buy.
Its pretty damn good!
Its truly the best of everything Ive heard in equipment and design. I grant those others with similar situations that theres may be better rooms and sound, but I havent been to visit them and cant say from experience.
What stands out to me in and from my room is that it feels small. It is actually 247 feet long and 152 feed wide where the speakers are located. The ceiling runs from 91 to 116 at the peak. The walls are not parallel, nor is the ceiling with the floor. And it does feel small. I believe it a combination of the oversize chair on a platform along with the monster truck sized speakers. They are 76 tall and 30 deep. When I have the equipment along side the chair, there isnt much room to get past. I think Im going to make a change in the seating. There goes my retirement fund.
The technical side of the room is Von Schweikert VR11's, Two DarTZeel stereo amps tri-wired, EMM Labs DCC2,Emm Labs CDSD Jena Labs interconnects and speaker wires, Jena Labs with a separate electrical panel fed from the top of the main panel and a separate HVAC system with acoustical dampening. The room is a floating system by Kinetics and what you see is in fact floating on a separate floor four inches below the current floor. The walls were built on the floating floor producing substantial isolation from the rest of the house. The rooms below are treated as well. There is a lot of sheetrock hanging on our walls. Waaay too much.
Having the room designed by Rives produced a set of plans which my licensed architect reviewed and then added support for. We now have two steel beams and three wood beams supporting the floor below the floor.
Pertussons corollary to Murphys Law raised its ugly head and true to it, No job is so simple that it cant be done wrong. In spite of excellent design, engineering and effort, neither the construction manager nor those at Rives Audio ever asked each other if the plans they were each talking about were the same. They werent. Rives revised the plans and the contractor did not have them. Only months into the project when it became obvious that there were differences while on conference calls, did I learn that I wouldnt be having front bass traps and that the window was offset. The first question that should be asked between designer and contractor is, what version plans do you have?
Issues arose during construction including isolating the steel columns and room below the audio room sonically from the audio room. One is my childrens living room and the other is the boiler room. Each has loud distracting noises in it. We used a hanging isolated ceiling in the living room to keep the psycho music and video from being heard upstairs. That works well. The boiler needs more isolation and we will build a room within the boiler room to isolate it from the HVAC for the audio room.
There are two prices to pay for huge speakers. One is the obvious lotsa money. The other is the speakers weigh in around 1000 pounds each, come in three shipping crates and need a couple of power lifters to install. Yes, call the gym first, before ordering to insure the availability of help. Our room is in the rear of the house which puts it ten feet above the driveway with no paved smooth walk to the rear. Problem! This problem needs to be addressed. It took five hours to install the speakers between bringing the six crates to the deck and actually hoisting them in place. The bookcase you see in the pictures is the actual door to the room. It is not a very wide opening and presents problems to bring in large objects. The speaker were tuned by Albert Von Schweikert and Kevin Malmgren. They measured the room and tuned and placed them in one night. Speaker placement is not critical, but position combined with seating position produces a variety of hall images.
I still am working on my vinyl setup and there are a few small details left in the room to do.
If youre crazy enough about audio and have the willingness and ability to make it happen, I recommend taking the plunge into extreme audio. Its a constant amazement that such beauty can be reproduced, for me (and you too).
Haven't heard from you since your elevation in the league of semi-retired entrepreneurs. I'm sure lack of obligations has improved your view of the world.
System edited: It's true! The thrill is gone. The VR-11's are moving out and it's time to move on. The only positive is that I can see the front and side walls now that the speakers are apart. We'll see where we're going next.
System edited: Simplicity went to a low level. I had my system apart for nearly a year. I sold the EMM gear, one Dartzeel and the Jena cables. I took the platform and 700 lbs of sand out, and have lowsy music in a wonderful room. Next is pre-amp and new digital gear. Better to listen than wait for something. Yeah, and so maybe it wasn't me, but my 19 year old son who took the sand out. It's conceptually the same.
Sorry for the delay in answering. I've learned a lot of ways to improve noise reduction in my heating room. First, enclose the air handler in a room within a room with tripled sheet rock, spun fiberglass, sheet rock which will damp some of the noise. If your furnace is a gas or oil fired, there are noise reducing burner jackets which will reduce all but the rumble by a lot. If you can, put the system on rubber feet which are commercially available. Then have a baffle box made to go between the furnace and the air inlets/returns in your room.
Sure, there are great recordings and in my system, they just come to "live". Muddy, clouded recordings are just that; muddy and clouded. However, even with bright or colored recordings, they are still enjoyable.
What has happened is that my expectation is so high as to being live that when there are modest recordings, I many times feel disappointed.
My system makes everything better, but it doesn't make the bad good.
Hi Bill, I too have gotten that audophile bug - Your system looks incredible - I was just curious about one of the comments pertaining to quality of sound - I have a modest system, as compared to yours, consisting of a Krell 400xi Integrated, Krell SACD Standard, Vienna Acoustics Baby Beethovens and Rel R205 Sub - I'm using Nordost Frey XLR Interconnects and Cardas Golden Cross speaker cables - Also have a dedicated 20 amp Line and a monster conditioner - There are some room issues but nothing to terrible - I have chosen the cabling to fine tune for the room. I have experimented with a few powercords but tend to like the stock cords better. Here is my question - don't you feel that the end result as far as sound is the recording - i have some discs that just sounds so incredible and some that are good and yet others that are barely exceptable - Do you still experience that with a system as elaborat as yours? Thanks for the info - Enjoy the music...TONY
What a story! I have an ultra mini version of your system (okay, maybe that is going to far!). EMM SE front end and a dartzeel amp driving a pair of Kharma 3.2CRM fe, room set up by Richard at Rives Audio (so worth it).
I am curious if you can point me to a way to make my forced air furnace quieter? I can hear it through a wall during operation and would like to cover it with something suitable to reduce decibals.
One of the considerations I have for the room in France is who I should use to design the acoustics. In my first room, I used Rives Audio. I have the opportunity to choose again and I'm interested in suggestions for this room 33 x 37 x 11'6".
I'm again considering all thoughts which will attain the highest level of acoustics and presentation in a room outfitted with numerous seating groups.
Well, I'm beginning to look at updating my system again. Hard to believe, but it's true. I am purchasing another home in France and I'm thinking of sending the VR-11's there and considering a revision of my home system.
It's time to upgrade the EMM Labs gear to the Signature Series and the EMT has run it's course. I'm ready for the DarTZeel preamp and to go to 50 ohm cables and get rid of the transmission lines on the floor.
The stand will be the Grand Prix Audio along with it's turntable.
So when I feel up to the economic lift, I'm moving on.
I'm considering using my completely rebuilt and updated Tenor 300 hybrids, the Jena Labs cables, an EMM front end and the VR-11's for my new room. Currently the plan is to build a room 37 by 33 with an 11 plus foot ceiling height floating on a rim-joist system to isolate the bass from the stone house. Still too many unanswered questions. The basic intent is to have a single room for both audio and entertaining which can seat up to 35 when necessary. We think this can work.
Sad to hear about the second home and racing Mike. I'm not sure you're limited to the 11's. I didn't buy a new house and build an addition for my system.
The exact distance from hole to hole is 28.75" and from outside to outside is 29.25".
I'm now sure you will have the best sound in the US.
so, i have sold my VR9's and ordered VR11's. no i can't afford a home in France or any Race Cars.....the 11's are as far as i can go in this lifetime.
i need to order a set of jumpers to extend my lower bass unit speaker cables to the upper unit. i need to have Transparent make me a set of Jumpers out of the 'raw' cable used for the Opus. what i need is the exact measurement between the upper and lower bass unit speaker terminals 'center to center'.
since the Opus spades are too big to use two sets of spades together i will be using banana plugs on the bottom and spades on top. since the Opus cable is so thick Transparent will need to have a pretty exact length to figure the bend in the banana plugs and spades and the raduis of the cables to get the length just right so there is not undue strain on anything.
I have a lot of people who feel my speakers are too far forward. I was able to use casters to experiment slightly. But using the Wilson WASP setup (listening to where the speaker frees up from the room from your prefered listening positioning) my room frees up when the speakers are out into the room. They are 9 feet from the wall behind the speakers. Similar to your setup. I do need to do bass treatement as I find the bass and midrange/treble interact differently with the room. Luckily w. the Wilsons I was able to adjust speaker axis for the top half. You have the ability to adjust your drivers (or some of them) if I am correct. That must afford you a lot of ability to fine tune your placement. I wonder, does the amount of adjustment involve a tremendous amout of work & experimentation?
I tried sitting much further back which produces a sense of hall rather than performance. Richard Byrd was concerned that the speakers wouldn't be coherent at such a short distance, given their height.
I kept finding myself wanting to sit further forward and so I moved the 700 lb platform to the sweet spot. I always love the music where I'm sitting, but have the feeling that I want to move back because I'm claustrophobic.
The room is 24 1/2 long by 15 wide with the ceiling at the front beginnig at 9 feet and cresting at 11 1/2 feet. The speakers are currently at 109" from the front and my ears are at 109" from the tweaters.
I'm back again and I'm having more success and a strange phenomenon.
I returned home from being away a week with the system off. Everything was off except for the Tom Evans. I listenend the next day and when I played vinyl I found that the desired listening volume was in the "low 20's". I turned the a/c in the room off and returned the next day. The room was 78 degrees and I found that I wanted to listen at "high 40's". I turned the a/c back on and my preferred listening level became "high 20's".
I listened carefully and find that the 1lb brass puck sucks the life out of the record. It's cleaner, but doesn't have that snap.
What happened? What's the relationship between temperature and volume? Too strange!