Hello Mike , Did you catch the blog on the Dalby audio design vinyl stabiliser/NVS, with Prof Durand in Asia . The stabiliser apparently elevates the NVS to new levels !

andrewrona July 02, 2012 19:25

Hmm, there does seem to be a general trend that everyone rates the ASR for transparency, soundstaging and dynamics, but a fair few belive it to lack involvment. This seems to be a v.similar description of Halcro amps from a few years back.
Once I sort my cart/phono stage upgrade, investigating the ASR will be next, alongside Audion SET and Dave Berning Z-OTL gear.

spiritofmusic June 23, 2012 20:12

"Obviously,it is a matter of system matching much like the ASR"
Agree,this can be said for every audio component under the sun and then factor many different pairs of ears.

charles1dad June 23, 2012 17:59

You can find threads here where people found the Dart stuff lacking in various areas (body, dynamics, etc). Obviously, it is a matter of system matching much like the ASR.

agear June 23, 2012 13:11

Rugyboogie,
What attempt was made to conquer the dryness of your ASR?
Did the ASR have any specific sonic advantages compared to your Dartzeel amplifier?
Spirit, how realistic are the chances to audition the ASR in your system(given the various opinions of owners) or somehow compare to the Audion and Berning amps?

charles1dad June 23, 2012 12:14

The Emitter is an interesting beast. Gregm, you definitely put it through its paces. That was wise and Spirit, you should obviously do the same if you can. As you know, Gary "Glory" Anderson converted from the 75W Tenor OTLs to the Emitter I Exclusive due to OTL heat issues in FL. I thought there was no way in hell a tube-o-phile like Gary was going to groove on SS feeding a 101 dB efficient speaker. I was wrong.

ASR caveats: the battery is a plus. Adds great sound staging depth, etc and makes it more SET-like in addition to tombstone quiet. I did multiple A+Bs with two different SET amps before buying mine, and it held its own. No dryness or lack of soul at all.

The ASR is VERY sensitive to cabling and conditioning. Due diligence is in order. Many former owners miss the mark in this area. Marshall Nack was one of the few reviewers who figured that out in his piece for Positive Feedback. He ended up using Kubla cabling. Argento and Teo are two other good options. Nordost is a bad idea. I use Dale Pitcher's stuff to good effect.

As for conditioning, ASR tells people that the unit does not need it and that conditioning would parasitize dynamics. While this may be true for most conditioners, I found it to be very beneficial. I have Dale Pitcher's latest unit, and it was transformative. Others have had success with the RSA Dimitri.

Spirit, if you want SS with a low noise floor, and a complete absence of mechanical glare, the ASR is a good option. Used, it is a lot cheaper than Dartzheel and other top tier offerings.

agear June 23, 2012 11:42

Boo,

Have the Nordost Thor. The Purepower unit reduced the Thor to sub amp/TV duty. If indeed you use the Thor for your system still.

glory June 23, 2012 04:30

Had the Emitter II Exclusive Blue version, the four box system for almost 5 years. As good as the Emitter was in my system it sounded somewhat dry to me. The darTZeel combo has now been a part of my setup and do not feel that I am missing anything. Tunes are all wonderful.
My two cents.

rugyboogie June 23, 2012 03:41

I have the older '05 Emitter 1 and running with the Zu Def speakers and LAmpozator dac leaves me with the soul of the music every listen I have with it. Changing out the Dac to SS left me cold and dry. The ASR will do that big time if your hook up the wrong component to it.

It likes Purepower and a high quality AC cable. The ASR cable is a throw away. Plug it into the wall and you end up sucking an egg.

I am sure there are ex Dart owners that have found better amps that to their ear sounds like the real things. I heard the Dart amps at Mike's place and it was the best audio system I ever heard. But the ASR or any other high end amp would have sounded great with his system.

Will be in Seattle in Aug. And hope to hear it again if Mike wills. My wife heard a cut and walked out in amazement and still talks about the sound she heard.

glory June 23, 2012 03:26

I love that mike displays his system, not only does he display it he also discusses it I have been enjoying it and following it hidden by the web for years. Thanks Mike!

chuggy June 23, 2012 02:38

Gregm,
I recall a while back another gon member reached a similar conclusion. In short, great design,built and function,the perfect robot but lacks 'soul'passion and emotion. Just too sterile and clinical he felt.To be fair there are those who love it very much.
Regards,

charles1dad June 22, 2012 12:57

I used the Emitter 1 exclusive a few years ago. The 1 has lower output power than the 2 -- ~150W iirc. I don't know of any other difference. I never purchased the battery thingy which was an expensive option & added an extra, fourth!, box.
Mostly I used it on a pair of Genesis Vs, a little on B&W 800s (unsuccessful combo) or S Faber somethings; also tried a number of other spkrs.

The short version is, you MUST listen to it before purchasing; listen choosing any two, different design spkrs, and get a feel. It doesn't matter if they're not your spkrs, you will know if you like it or not.

I say listen to it even on other spkrs, because lugging it to your home for an audition isn't easy. Forget "stacking the boxes and lugging under your arm. It ain't going to happen. This is a very cumbersome and heavy product, you need space to set it up, etc...

It's also a very well made product, has a superb confidence-inspiring construction, and is very user-friendly -- plug & play really. (Once you have made space for it, placed it, set it up, plugged it in, waited for a few years until the battery charges, etc;)) It is hassle free and probably built to withstand a nuclear war. I never had any operating problems with it.

Operation: it looks very cool in the dark!
Mine had an "energy-saving" mode which also seemed to save on the sonic quality, so I didn't use it except for background music... Apparently, only part of the amp is working so, you do save on electricity.
The Emitter doesn't have an active pre section -- either that or I missed something: the "pre" part was just a relay based volume control, basically like having a passive pre. Mine also had a "direct" input which bypassed the source selector and which was supposed to sound even better. Maybe.

The overall sonic result on the Genesis was good -- but cool & uninvolved. Which is strange considering that this amp has it all: frequency extension, power, unbelievable power supply, top quality internals, good quality boards, wiring, etc. I played it on some medium sized floor-standing S Faber and the resulting sound was similar. (I also tried a host of other spkrs at home -- it was easier to lug medium sized spkrs than move the Emitter around, believe it or not!) It wasn't a matter of which speakers to use.

To be clear about this, my experience is of an exquisitely made amplifier in the very top class of commercially available products -- but one that I maybe wished to be the end all and it wasn't in my case.
So please don;t be mislead by what I say: the latest unknown, best kept secret in hi-fi "giant killer amp" will be trashed by it.
Or that the "great little amp" at 50% of the price will outperform it. It won't.

But it seemed to play music as if it were solving a mathematical equation... if this makes sense.

And no, it wasn't a matter of the mains (direct line and ridiculously large power supply anyway) nor the power chord (exceptionally mine had huge hard-wire mains cables). Nor the IC -- I used my trusty \Valhalla and my own brew based on Jadem's own design (Jade cable),

For example, the Dart Stereo you see in Mike's system above has an incomparably more "liquid" sound in my system while retaining the dynamic impact we need in classical (in lower volumes, however).

gregm June 22, 2012 10:03

Hi Mike (and others), could you pass comment on another component? I'm about to take possession of my new Zu Audio Definitions Mk 4s which is getting rave comments by the handful of owners who've upgraded to them in the last few months.
With my new, very neutral tt/arm I'm on the lookout for the right cart. But I'd like to ask you if you have any experience of the ASR Emitter 2 integrated amp (4 components incl. power supplies). I'm currently running Hovland HP200 pre/Radia pow, which has really served me well for 7 years but am v.tempted to maximise neutrality further by moving back to all SS.
The ASR gets rave reviews everywhere, and seems to be engineering overkill (3 power supplies, all units built like tanks). But a lot of comments temper positives by concluding they may be a little cool and detached emotionally, despite mighty detail retrieval, transparency and soundstage. Any thoughts?

spiritofmusic June 22, 2012 02:33

Thanks for the info Mike. I am looking forward to the convenience of the machine. I will be listening to alot more clean records now :).

Good to see you at the PNWAS meeting. I thought it was a pretty cool demonstration. If they do a live vs recorded demo again I hope they can include a R2R machine as well. I think it would be quite informative.

If you try a Denon 103 in your system I think you would like one with a Soundsmith ruby cantilever and line or optimized line contact stylus. I have not tried one in my system but heard Gary Koh's Magic Diamond a couple of times in the last few months. As you may know the Magic Diamond is a rebuilt 103. Gary had it rebuilt by Soundmith later with a ruby cantilever. It was pretty impressive. Very clear and realistic. It was not quite as refined as your Ortofon Anna but it might be an interesting alternative.

Cheers,

Sean

sarcher30 June 21, 2012 17:48

hi Marc,

due to all the recent hype i did investigate a few highly touted MM's a couple of years ago when i had my Allnic H3000 phono stage. at the time i had 5 arms going and so i had 3 LOMC's (2 A90's and a Lyra Olympos SL) and a couple of MM's. certainly the MM's were nice and flowed well. but when things got a bit complicated the MC's could resolve detail which the MM's glossed over. there was much greater musical nuance with the MC's. i still have a few MM's here.

as far as the Zu Denon 103; at the Newport Beach show i did visit the Zu room a couple of times and heard this cartridge. it is very very nice. and it was not in my system, but i'm skeptical that it plays in the upper reaches of the LOMC's. but who knows unless i had it in my system to try out. and with your endorsment i'll try to see if i can somehow get a chance to try one.

mikelavigne June 21, 2012 13:26

hi Sean,

when you push the 'button' to start the Audio Desk it will beep once for every minute of 'scrub time' you want. this is the time the brushes turn on the surface of the Lp. i typically do 3 'beeps' for most used Lps. the most i've done is 7 beeps.

if you just want to clean the dust off an otherwise clean Lp, or maybe a brand new Lp, then just 1 beep is fine.

the blow dry cycle is exactly the same regardless of how many beeps (minutes) of scrubing you choose.

mikelavigne June 21, 2012 13:01

Hi Mike, I'm finding possible cartridge upgrade the most confusing choice of all. Believe it or not after 5-6 years of running top draw MCs (Transfiguration Temper Supreme and Orpheus) I moved onto, I kid you not, a Zu modded Denon 103! Lost out a little in the tonality/transparency stakes, but gained a lot in dynamics/timing.
Selling my warm, overcoloured belt drive/pivoted rig for the highly neutral revealing rim drive/linear tracking rig I currently have has highlighted deficiencies in the cart.
So, advice on A'gon has been: to reinvestigate my Orpheus, check out the Straingauge (which I will do in due course), upgrade the Zu 103 w. a Soundsmith ruby cantilever with retipping Optimum Contour Line stylus, and even check out inexpensive NOS MMs like 1970's Pickerings/Technics, Acutex etc. Never expected these as possible alternatives.
This is compounded by the death of the hifi shop, it's next to impossible in the UK to get to hear a range of carts, let alone a proper home demo.
One has to investigate online, get a small number of possibilities and scour around for possible demos.

spiritofmusic June 21, 2012 10:16

Hi Mike,

I have an Audio Desk RCM on the way and have a question for you. I read in the manual that it is possible to have the machine do multiple cleaning cycles before it does a drying cycle. Have you played with that and do you think it benificial? I have not seen it discussed elsewhere.

Thanks,

Sean

sarcher30 June 21, 2012 05:31

Marc,

i've been saying the same thing for awhile about the significance of the tonearm in the total vinyl front end performance. even though you and i do differ to some degree on the question of pivoted verses linear.

if there is one thing i have learned both from my years with multiple tt's and various tonearms, and then after observing the Durand tonearm development process in my room, it is that tonearms separate the good from the ordinary, the excellent from the good, and the amazingly fantastic from the excellent in total tt performance. it's not always that simple as the tt itself and the cartridge can also have their significant incluence too, but limitations in tonearm performance are easily the most significant issues.

even my Newport Beach exercise with 'Snooky' mostly (but not exclusively) revealed tonearm differences more than any other single factor.

i've never been to Europe; but if i ever do and make it to London i would be honored to visit for a listen. and if you are ever in the Seattle area i would extend the same invitation.

mikelavigne June 18, 2012 12:57

Mike, I just can't believe the influence that the tonearm has over the system. Since my rim drive tt and air bearing linear tracking arm have come as a package I can't separate which component is contributing to which aspect of sound improvement, but I suspect the tt speed stability involves soundstage and clarity thru the frequency spectrum, and rhythmn/timing; and the arm involves setting bass quality/foundation for rest of the sound and solidity/transparency of sound esp. as grooves tighten as lp proceeds.
Just amazed such a different sound from belt drive/pivoted arm is even more compelling than ever.
Are you ever over in the UK on business etc?
I live in the London area and would welcome you here for a listen if practical.

spiritofmusic June 18, 2012 07:27

hi Ed,

i hope you had a Happy Father's day too.....and thanks for the nice comments. the last few years have been fun and the changes have been very positive for me as far as system development, performance and enjoyment. prior to that i was sort of taking small steps forward, back, and sideways, i had acquired multiple tt's, multiple RTR decks, and my room was still somewhat a challenge. but looking back a couple of years it does seem that the smoke has cleared and i've come to a good spot in the road. thanks for the perspective on that.

and i can't wait to 'share' about the MM7's. it looks like the MM3's will be leaving for their new home in the next couple of weeks.....so then it will be 'are we there yet?' time for awhile. :(

i'm happy to hear that your own system (with many of the same pieces as mine) is sounding fine. you can't go wrong with a line-up like that. it is nice that Jonathan could come by and help to tweak things in your room. he has done the same in my room and it made a big difference for me.

i was fortunate this morning that Ki Choi came by to install the head switch on my 1/2" Studer A-820 so i can now play my 1/2" master dubs thru the King Cello. i now have a new reference for music reproduction performance.

next time you get up here to the Seattle area i hope we can co-ordinate a visit. sorry i was not around last time.

best regards,

mikelavigne June 18, 2012 04:32

Whart,

thanks for the kind comments. i enjoyed our phone conversation and clearly we have alot in common particularly our passion to explore the upper reaches of fine audio reproduction. we are both trying to enjoy the journey and maybe learn something along the way and have some fun.

best wishes on your move to Texas from the Northeast. i know you will have fun with the room project and look forward more interactions about it as you move along.

mikelavigne June 18, 2012 04:04

Marc,

i'm glad the Trans Fi tt and arm are working out so well for you. better speed performance has many performance advantages, and i'm a big believer in the huge contribution a great tonearm has too. hopefully there comes a time where a vinyl front end reaches a point where things come together and the music just flows and it surpasses the sum of the parts. sounds like you are in that ballpark now.

as far as air pumps; i did enjoy that the air compressor for the Rockport was in another room (in an attic above my room in a soundproof enclosure) so i had no noise intrusion. that is not always an option for every situation and design.

mikelavigne June 18, 2012 03:53

Mike.... I've had the luxury of spending a few hours in my sound room enjoying some great tunes. During my listening sessions I started reading your posts from the beginning til about Sept. 2010. Ran out of time due to it being Father's Day. Happy Father's Day btw!

I can't tell you how much I've enjoyed reading about your audio journey. I've been through quite a journey myself. Different but none the less a journey that has been filled with lots of education and appreciation of music and gear.

Just wanted to say "Thanks!" for sharing......

Can't wait to hear about the MM7's!

My MM2's/NVS/DarTZeel/PD/Studer A80/ATR-102 is sounding better than ever! JT was gracious enough to come over after Newport to do some tweaking with the MM2's.

Enjoy Father's Day Mike!

theaudioassociation June 17, 2012 19:29

Whart, I have not heard the Kuzma Airline, but it is highly regarded. All I can say is that the Trans Fi Audio Terminator air bearing linear tracking arm may be the best audio purchase I've made - it's bass is just so right, releasing the pivoted SME V earthbound quality, and tracking is really so superlative I can't go back to regular tonearms.
The great news re this arm is that unlike all other top class similar arms incl. the Kuzma, it uses a LOW POWER PUMP. This means that noise is present but pretty quiet, and is only slightly distracting if one was to listen to acoustic/vocals at v. low vols, with the pump next to the listening position. It can still be situated outside the listening room, but in 99% of situations, in room is fine. Also being low pressure it ends up being low maintenance and highly predictable in use.
Lastly at £750/$1200+, it's 4-6x cheaper than the Kuzma. So if you love the performance of air bearing linear trackers but struggle with the Kuzma, really give the Terminator some serious consideration.

spiritofmusic June 17, 2012 07:57