My system feels and sounds "done" to me, 14 yrs after I started. 2 channel and movies are better than I ever dreamed possible - the synergy is just remarkable. I have very fortunately been able to assemble a system that I will never grow tired of listening to. This is not in a dedicated listening room, but in my living room, complete with dogs, TV, open doorways, etc., etc. It really shouldn't sound any good, but it sounds GREAT!! Go figure... It has definitely been a learning experience and I've made my share of missteps along the way, as I expected to do.
My original goal was to be able to close my eyes and have the performers in the room with me. I have finally gotten there and actually beyond, to the point where the speakers disappear in the room. A pretty big deal considering the size of the speakers (BIG!) and the size of the room (19' x 20') I now just listen to the music and smile.
The latest additions - VAC Statement linestage, Focal Grande Utopia EM speakers and Critical Mass Systems Maxxum rackage made a huge impact to my system, both aurally and visually (as well as to what USED to be my savings.) :-). I finally have my DREAM system and couldn't be happier, as it sounds as good as it looks (some say even better). (edited 12/2014)
Valve Amplification Company STATEMENT 450 IQ Monoblocks
Great amps. IQ Continuous Automatic Bias System and Auto-Sentry System added on recent trip to VAC. Very good sound became off-the-charts sound. Literally best tube amps I've heard anywhere, at any price. With addition of the FOCALS, I can really appreciate the amps.
Valve Amplification Company STATEMENT Linestage
Added Seimens 7308s for break-in; will be installing CCA Telefunkens in several weeks. :-)
Esoteric P-02 Transport/D-02 DAC
SOTA digital. Phenomenal combination.
FOCAL Grande Utopia EM
WOW!
High Fidelity Ultimate Reference Rhodium and HelixPowrCds
Each run from wall to a P-10 power regenerator, which supply my system. They are "game-changers" for my system - the detail, imaging, separation and musicality are great. Helix goes to transport.
Critical Mass Systems Maxxum Rack and Amp Stands
Merlot 9-position filtered rack, with 2 Merlot filtered amp stands. Installed by Joe L. and my local dealer. All are movable for cable access, etc., a Maxxum first. System got even quieter, imaging improved and sound stage got both wider and deeper. They also make my living room look much better. :-)
High Fidelity Ultimate Reference Power Cable
Ridiculously excellent power transmission. Powers Esoteric P-02 transport from PS Audio P-10 power regenerator. Best I've ever heard.
Master Set Speaker system Tuning
Performed by Rod Thompson of Soundings (here in Denver). Took speakers to a much higher level than I thought possible in my room. Well worth the money for this system to perform to the level he got it to.
High Fidelity Ultimate Reference Speaker cables
SOTA for speakers
High Fidelity Ultimate IC's betw preamp and amps
Final piece of the puzzle. Entire system opened up tremendously.
High Fidelity CT-1Ultimate ICs from D-2 to preamp
New design with magnetic influence. Amazing low level detail with excellent musicality. Best cable yet between Esoteric D-02 DAC and Vac preamp.
Purist Audio Custom DC umbilical cords 4 Focals
Connects DC woofer external control modules to the Focal speakers. Custom made for this application (thanks to Albert Porter).
PS Audio P-10 Power Regenerator(2)
System protection as well as clean, steady power to all gear. Silver.
HighFidelity Ultimate Reference Helix Digital
Great digital cable clocking the p-02 and D-02 together using internal clock.
Hi Diamond P-4(4) and P-3(2) power cords
P-4s from wall to 2 P-10s, and from P10s to each amp. Also from P-10 to CD player and wall to sub. P-3 from P-10 to preamp and from Oppo to P-10. Extremely quiet, resolving and organic cables that get out of the way of the music. Macro and micro details in abundance, without any harshness or loss of musicality. Best PCs I've heard, at any price.
Pro ELITE 70 inch LCD w/full Local Dimming
Motorized wall mount allows TV to come forward and down for viewing. Retract to wall for critical listening.
Integra DHC-80.2 HD Processor
All the latest codecs for movies.
Legacy Audio Focus 20/20 rear speakers
Full range and great for movies
Oppo BDP-105
Video processing to 3D plus all latest Audio Codecs
Digital Systems Ultrabit Platinum Disc Treatment
The best I've found to help my CDs sound their best and remove scratches.
Hi Bob- I'm pretty sure there will be some decent gains with the sub cables for 2-channel, becoming even more apparent for movies. I know this since I have already used these cables to replace other SR cabling in my system. My biggest gains, hopefully, will come with the addition of the High Fidelity Ultimate Reference speaker cables.
It is interesting that you bring up this DSD discussion, since it was a similar discussion with my buddy Art that got me traveling along the digital front end upgrade path about a month ago in the first place.
I'm not ready to go to computer hard drives yet, so what makes the most sense to me for now is to try to upgrade my preamp to Statement level, if I can make it work. Esoteric will include this capability on its new P01/D-01 coming out this fall, as well as a retrofit in January for the P-02/D-02 to allow for DSD to be input.
On another subject - That PMR really WORKS!! It focuses the vocals and instruments, in effect "clearing them up", and in my case more than restores the excellent imaging I had before a big TV landed between my speakers. The best thing is that I have even better sound now than with the TV gone! The system also sounds more musical with the PMR in front of the TV at ear level, as I think certain harmonics may be subtly boosted as well. Its definitely worth at least a demo to see what it does for your system.
I expect the next several months to be pretty exciting as I start to hopefully integrate some or all of the above changes. I will report back as things progress.
Not sure that upgrading cables to a sub is going to produce a huge improvement...since your initial cables are decent to start; but I could be wrong...let us know.... We have some similar pieces; I do love the VAC tubed preamps...but the biggest step up for me in sonic enjoyment and quality was to switch to DSD capable DAC; omit the CD player; and rip all my music CD's onto a hard drive; and then up-convert to DSD....I had a decent Ayon CD5s, and the switch to Playback Design PS5D was incredible. Keep your current VAC preamp; and replace it with a dac that can up-convert usb files to DSD, several makes out there; the MSB analog DAC, EMM, Chord, Playback Design, and I think Esoteric... If that move doesn't float your boat; then try the upgraded VAC pre....we both are pure digital people; with no TT...and using our rig for combined two channel/HT. I'd love to hear more about what the Novum PMR device did to help tune your room, and how you are liking it... Glad you are enjoying your set up; and the new cables....
Hi Lloyd- "great" for my system would be something like the new VAC Statement Line Stage, for example. There are several others I am aware of that are also allegedly "great" as well. My preference is VAC, but you never know..... :-)
After considerable thought and input from others, the Esoteric purchase may be put on hold for a while. It makes more economic sense to upgrade my preamp from very good to great, if I can find "great", which I think I might have. I'll hopefully know within the next 2-3 weeks whether that is a doable path for me at this point or not.
I've also decided to upgrade my subwoofer ic cables from SR xlr Reference to High Diamond XLR3's. Using a pair to replace a pair, since coming out of L & R preamp outputs. The XLR3's already sound great between my preamp and amps, so I'm pretty optimistic they will be transformative for my subwoofer. I've put a High Diamond P-4 on the sub as well. Stay tuned for further developments.... :-)
Contemplating a few changes over the next several months.
Upgrading my SR bi-wire APEX speaker cables and Galileo Speaker cells to Hi Fidelity either CT-1 Ultimate or CT-1 Ultimate Reference.
Upgrading my APL NWO-M to Esoteric P-02/D-02 combination, probably. My understanding is that Alex will no longer retain a US presence. I will probably break the Esoterics in over the next several months outside of my system and then compare with APL at that point. If APL loses, it will either replace my K-03 in my office system, or it will be sold. In the meantime, it will remain in my main system. It has been problem free and continues to make incredible music, so there's not really a downside here, I don't think.
Hi Fplanner, I was chuckling in a positive way when I read what you wrote saying;
"the imaging gets even better and the dogs start looking around for the musicians/singers. I haven't seen that before... :-)"
It's pretty amazing isn't it? I've been lucky enough to have been enjoying such for some years now and never get bored seeing my "girls" two sisters "boston terriers" so engaged along with myself and seems no matter how many times I or them listen still get caught off guard which is remarkable.
I have now had the CT-1 Ultimate ics for about a month between my CD player and preamp. The transparency and realism is amazing. They are apparently just starting to seriously break in at about 200 hours. I am hearing both a wider and deeper soundstage as well as more details than with the Enhanced version CT-1. Bass has tightened up and gotten quicker. There is an increased "ease" to the music that wasn't quite there before, as the noise floor has gotten noticeably lower. Separation/imaging,especially between voices, has also improved. I am also starting to catch low-level details I have not heard before, especially environmental cues - chairs and microphones moving, etc.
There is definitely a "WOW" factor present with these cables, at least in my system. When I add in the PMR, the imaging gets even better and the dogs start looking around for the musicians/singers. I haven't seen that before... :-)
System edited: I just added this PMR Premium #2 to my system. Jerry from Audio Magic brought it over and after 1/2 hour of listening, it was staying. A bit of background - for the past several months I have been exploring various potential wall mounting solutions to having my 70" TV between my speakers. After many hours, nothing really fit what I wanted or was anywhere near cost -effective. So, I was stuck, or so I thought. I bounced my dilemna off my buddy Rick (Schultz) who suggested I take a look at the PMR device, which he had heard and had been impressed with. I read up on it and all the glowing industry reviews. Alfred directed me to Jerry, who actually lives a few minutes from me. The changes we heard with the PMR on a stool in front of my TV were not subtle. The imaging and resolution immediately improved, especially voices. The separation I thought I was losing due to the TV compromise is now a thing of the past. I am getting much better performance out of my system than I would get with the TV gone, and the TV is still there!! It has become another win-win for me. I highly recommend at least trying this product in your system - it made more of a difference than expected just hastily set up on a stool - when I take the time to explore other placement options, I'm pretty sure I will come up with an even more effective and aesthetically pleasing placement.
System edited: HD 3 xlr is KILLING the cables they replaced - SR's Prec Ref, in every category. Prec Ref has thousands of hours on them; the 3 xlrs have ONLY 15 HOURS ON THEM!!
I ran a simple experiment this am. With the help of a friend, we moved the 70" TV into another room. It had been between the speakers on a platform table. Immediately my soundstage gained width, depth and imaging improved significantly. That is what I was hoping for. I will now find a Cedia registered installer to mount my TV on the wall with articulating arms so that it can be in its prior position when being watched. When listening to just music, I want to be able to move it to the wall. I could probably do the installation, but hiring a pro here makes more sense.
After the first experiment, I replaced my 4m SR Precision ref xlr ics between my preamp and the monos with Hi Diamond XLR 3 cables. Over the course of about an hour, we heard the cables start out crappy and gradually improve in different areas. At the end of the hour, the Hi Diamonds sounded almost as good at the SR cables, and better already in some areas like a more balanced presentation and a wider soundstage. The best thing I can say is that they just get out of the way and let the music come through as intended. The SRs have literally THOUSANDS OF HOURS ON THEM. I'm pretty sure they will be for sale next week as the Hi Diamonds continue to improve. We heard such a dramatic change just within the first hour that I am running the system overnite to see what I get in the morning (besides a warm living room from all the tubes..:-).)
As I have continued to remove the SR "tuning cables", my system just keeps sounding better and better. Most of the SR is now gone, along with a large portion of the wall-wart mess behind my gear. The system is much quieter and more resolving than it has ever been due to the changes I've been making the past year or so. Very happy with the results so far.
BTW, cranked some YES afterwards very loudly, (because I CAN and that's the way they should be heard :-)) before we put the TV back, and there were no dynamics limitations whatsoever. It sounded better than live due to no distortion. The PS Audio P-10s are real keepers in my system.
If you go to the site you can now see the further pics of the product.
Kevin has changed the look, the 450's have an additional cord "three instead of two like ours
I personally don't like the look in black but if in silver those additional areas will blend in.
Line stage, looking inside only shows two tubes. If you click onto the picture and keep clicking you can see different pics along with a nice close up of the inside and I must say looks amazingly clean.
Peek at the back of one of the units shows 4 phono inputs, title says line stage but don't see any tubes for those phono's but then looking at another pick titled phono has six tubes but the back appears to only have xlr connectors so not too sure.
HNY to you as well! I think these pieces are going to be a bit pricey and not sure how much audible difference this auto-biasing will generate, if any. Makes me glad I addressed system power noise and modulating current with my P-10s. How are they working in your system?
Cyrus- I agree with Dev here - there is no reliable way to actually compare conditioner/regenerators, etc. since there are way too many variables that are different between our systems. For instance, cabling also plays a huge role in system silence. What I did measure was that I have .4% THD going into the p-10s from the wall, and .02% THD going from the p10s to my gear, at 120v constant. My system is noticeably quieter and hence more resolving. That makes me happy. Of course everyone has their own preference.
SPL meter would be a little more accurate to achive those readings that you refer to but I think even doing this it may still be flawed, my amps and pre may be quieter or possibly louder than yours due to different factors including manufacture, the bias and even the the tubes within "actual noise from such"
This is just my two cents and I feel there is allot more going on than just testing that.
What input did you have your pre turned to when doing this? and what is connected to that actual input?
FWIW, I replaced my SR Apex bi-wired SC several years ago with ASI Liveline and never looked back. Using 2 single runs for bi-wire now and ICs. I find HD has a similar sonic signature to the Livelines so I think it will be a fun experiment with HD SC and IC for you in the future.
Fplanner and Dev, I have been following this tread and thought the following test might be interesting. Since we all three have Vac 450's and the same pre, I think it might be interesting to all three of us to compare the sound fromm our tweeters at different sound levels. You two have p-10's and I have a Equi-tech 10WQ wall system. Here are my numbers. With the pre at 12 noon, when my ears are 3 inches from the tweeter, the sound is inaudible. When my ear is just about touching the tweeter, I can hear a slight hiss. At FULl power, at 6 inches, the sound is inaudible. At 3 inches , I can hear a slight hiss. Dev and I have 101E's . Just wonder if this test could shed any light on the quietness of our respective systems and the 2 different power systems?
K- For now, I'm just going to catch my breath. I will not change my ics from CD to preamp - they are High Fidelity CT-1E and are fantastic in my system. Same with my SR Apex bi-wired spkr cables, complete with Galileo speaker cells - they are not moving. ALso won't be moving SR Prec Ref xlr from preamp to amps anytime soon. What I've found over the years is that different cable companies excel in different things. HiDiamond pcs outperform the SR pcs in my system, but that does not necessarily extend to any other types of cabling. I can always experiment later after all the power cords break in - right now they need at least another 3-400 hours.
Dev- p-4s are about 1" thick for the main body, becoming about 3/4" thick about 8" from each end. Robert of Worldwide has compared the Stealth Dream to the P-3 pcs and said it wasn't even close, in favor of the HiDiamond. That's pretty much what I also experienced with the SR cords. You might want to give him a call. He's also in Canada. :-)
Interesting indeed, what is the aprox outer dimension of these cables and are they flexable or ridged
Curently I'm using Stealth Dream as PC's, I have yet to find anyone whom has done any comparison's. I'm still using the stock PC from the P10 to the wall, will change down the road.
With our amps I'm also surprised with the differences it makes with support, what you place them on.
Currently I having mine placed upon a Sistrum SP 101 platform with a Svelt shelf then placed upon it which is my fav.
Would like to try SS Ultra 5's and also Minus K
Placing my speakers upon StillPoints Ultra 5's to date is my fav
