Excellent review Doug. Very valuable to have such a comprehensive and well-written account of the speaker.

roscoeiii March 11, 2014 03:55

I have been waiting to share my extended impressions of the Vapor Nimbus White; now all can read them at Dagogo.com

douglas_schroeder March 10, 2014 21:39

Thanks Doug for the thoughtful response. I fall into the "tighter" camp. The Aeris is nearly twice the price of the Nimbus. What do you gain sonically for the extra money. I know there are the built in costs of the amps and outboard DSP but how does the sound change between the two? Also Vapor is planning a Perfect Storm speaker which is priced similarly to the Aeris. Any advanced word on its construction?

aldavis March 10, 2014 19:11

Rockadanny, Thank you; the systems and the room are a testament to what can be done with long term, i.e. 20 years, planning and execution.

The product I used to treat my CDs is Essence of Music. I was a beta tester for Essence of Music, and as such I will not write a review of it. However, I wrote an endorsement of its ability to enhance the sound of Redbook based on my use of it. If it was not efficacious I would not have written an endorsement. Since it works so well I took the time to treat my entire collection.

It should be noted that there is a caution with the product that it not be used with certain dual layer discs, as it can damage them. I have firsthand knowledge of this, so it is not a hollow warning. I used the product only on CDs of ages varying up to 20-some years old and had no instances of incompatibility or damage.

I have no patience for ineffective methods, no matter how popular or promoted. CD treatment has proven to be efficacious, so I use it. I do not consider it a tweak as the effect is repeatable from disc to disc and permanent once treated. The sound quality difference is immediately noticeable and passes a threshold such that one does not have to strain to hear the difference. I found that the Essence of Music provided more profound change in Redbook than other cleaning or polishing methods.

I conducted some tests with treated CDs vs. non-treated in terms of burning a copy to see if it would sound better. The results indicated to me that a treated original produced a better sounding copy, and that copy in turn sounded better when treated than the original CD. Some may scoff at this or wish to challenge or argue it. I am not interested in arguing my results. I merely share this as it was the motivation for me to treat all my discs prior to ripping them.

douglas_schroeder March 10, 2014 16:45

Al, There is a fair bit of difference between the newer Aeris and the Whisper in the Legacy line, so imo it would not be proper to simply lump them together in comparison to the Nimbus White. The Aeris would be closer to the principles employed in the Nimbus White, that being a "tighter" driver configuration along classic speaker design principles; i.e. single, or at most a matched parallel pair of drivers operating as one (like the Nimbus's Mid drivers.

This leads to higher coherency overall between driver sets imo and the presentation is profoundly different than a line source speaker. I have come to classify the Whisper as a quasi-line source speaker as it utilizes sets of drivers versus the traditional designs. Consequently, the Whisper is quite different in terms of dynamics and coherency. The Aeris and Nimbus White are to my ear "tighter" up and down the frequency spectrum. The Whisper, however, has capacity to open up the soundstage in a manner unlike either. I would describe the Whisper as more "romantic" in sound compared to the Aeris and Nimbus White. These others are more tight in terms of image definition. This is due predominantly to differences in design. There are benefits and trade offs for each technology.

Both of these expressions of design are quite pleasing, nearly as different as a panel speaker and a dynamic speaker. The widespread set of Midrange drivers of the Whisper fool the ear into thinking it is hearing a panel, only localized a bit more to the center of the speaker. The bass up high and low fill the room in a markedly different manner than any speaker with only a lower positioned bass driver. These differences are quite easily discerned when the speakers are used in direct comparison in the same room/systems.

In terms of people seeking direction as to selection of speakers, I would have them determine whether tonality and scale of images along with sheer dynamic impact is most critical or definition and solidity of imaging and tautness of bass. If the former is foremost, then they should look at the Whisper, and if the latter they should look at the Aeris and Nimbus White. I find that the experience is so varied that both the Whisper and Nimbus White can lead the owner into glorious experiences, though sonically distinct.

douglas_schroeder March 10, 2014 16:02

I treat all discs prior to ripping

Superb system there Doug.
May I ask please, treat with what?

rockadanny March 10, 2014 14:46

Doug, How would you compare the Nimbus to the better Legacy speakers like the Aeris or Whisper? Generally, how does each speaker stand out?

aldavis March 10, 2014 02:32

Lawrence, thanks for asking your questions, as they are good ones. Readers of my answer should keep in mind that I wrote a review of the Nimbus White for Dagogo.com.

Not having the two speakers side by side in my room my impressions are not absolute. However, I would suggest that one could legitimately compare the Nimbus White to the Alexia as well as the Sasha W/P. I would go so far as to say the most likely parallel in the Wilson line would be the Alexia. I am well aware of the sizable price differential between the two speakers. I would like to say quite a bit more, but I believe it would be inappropriate given that the review is pending and I purchased the speakers. I believe my perspective on the capabilities of the Nimbus White will be clear once the review is published.

As to the software used to rip Redbook discs, I have an interesting perspective. I attempted to use XLD initially, but was having so many hangups that after discussing it with some individuals in the industry and finding no consensus I simply ditched it. I ripped the discs in AIFF format using iTunes. Expecting there to be perhaps serious consequences for skipping the online matching of bits to get "bit perfect," copies, I was surprised to realize that it seems to have had zero effect on the sound quality. Indeed, the discs ripped without all the comparison afforded by XLD seem every bit as superb, and it took a lot less time!

My conclusion is that the primary benefit of the ripping software may be in the particular metadata format one selects. XLD seemingly did nothing to enhance the playback. Further, it also seemed to do nothing to eliminate dropouts on CD's which have a serious defect in the surface. My conclusion? I'm just as well off without XLD. I simply use iTunes, putting the CD into AIFF format and check the error correction option. I treat all discs prior to ripping, and I believe this may have more efficacy in terms of file playback than the software used to rip.

I was hoping for at least Redbook quality, but have achieved better already, even without upgrading USB cable, DAC or aftermarket file playback software. I have been using Amarra and find that it is preferable with certain systems/music.

douglas_schroeder March 09, 2014 20:38

HI Doug,

How would you compare the sound of the Nimbus White to Wilson Sasha?

And would like to know what software you used to rip the CD to your mini?

THANKS

lawence_carpio March 09, 2014 13:22

System edited: I have added the Mac Mini as "Transport" to the system listing. I find it incredible that there is no option for a computer-based source in the system listing given the popularity of file playback. The Mini is performing at a high level; it has an aftermarket PS Audio power cord with C-7 plug and I'm using a Furutech GT-2 USB cable (1M) currently. The humble overachieving Musical Fidelity V-90 DAC (reviewed for Dagogo.com) rounds out this introductory file playback system. I envision cable, software and DAC experimentation as time goes by. With the Vapor Audio Nimbus White speakers (also reviewed, but not yet published) the system clearly outperforms previous efforts with more costly front end, namely Redbook, and I have not yet pushed it to any great degree.

douglas_schroeder March 05, 2014 01:46

Doug...thank you very much!

zephyr24069 February 27, 2014 10:09

Zephyr, that's a good question, and the nomenclature does not distinguish between finishes or aesthetics, besides the color of the Midrange drivers.

Primarily the designation "Black" or "White" denotes the particular Midrange drivers used in the speaker. The black midranges are the 6" Wavecor with paper cones (technically, I believe it is paper impregnated with synthetic fibers), versus the Nimbus White's 6" Accuton Ceramic coned drivers.

The difference in sound is that the Black version is more laid back, with less absolute definition. I have not heard the Black version. However, the Accuton is more defined and in my estimation has quickness and cleanness comparable to an electrostatic speaker, only more focused, of course. My opinion is that there is no such thing as too much definition in a high end audio system, so I welcome the super-revealing/refined sound of the Nimbus White.

I believe the other models of Vapor speakers in Black version use a 6" Audio Technology driver.

douglas_schroeder February 24, 2014 21:45

Hey Doug...hope you have been well! What is the difference between tne Nimbus Black and White Models? Same question for the Cirrus Black and White models from Vapor?

zephyr24069 February 24, 2014 13:19

Needfreestuff, thanks for the comments; I am very blessed and try not to take it for granted!

Yes, those are Pass Labs X600.5 monos and they are excellent at presenting an easy, effortless sense of power and dynamics.

As to the variety of speakers I use, I lost the willpower to continue scouring the Earth for the One, the perfect speaker. ;)

douglas_schroeder February 19, 2014 18:10

Those look like Pass Lab amps with the Nimbus speakers if so which ones are they? As you know its a difficult task to widen those speakers and not bring any unwanted colorations to the mix hope all goes well. Good luck on your journey and make sure and keep us posted on the results, you are very fortunate to have such excellent equipment and speakers to enjoy. Three great systems your a lucky guy.

needfreestuff February 19, 2014 04:09

Ryan, I have been working through four permutations of speakers with an integrated under review, so no tubes currently. However, I'm on the last pair of speakers (Including the Nimbus White). This has given me a broad understanding of the performance of the integrated with different speakers.

In a few more days it will be the Nimbus's turn to again be in the spotlight, and I was planning to run a rig with tubes somewhere in the signal path, likely the VAC Phi 200 amps. It will be fun to hear how the different output taps influence the speaker. In the past speakers have responded readily to the selection of the output posts' differing impedance but I expect the Nimbus White to be even more revealing in that regard than the Daedalus Ulysses or King III esl.

The move to file playback has been rewarding and I'm comparing iTunes to Amarra with different speakers. I had some concern that the file playback might not be up to my requirement for review purposes, but all worries have evaporated; the file playback is superior to the Redbook, and this is noted especially in the timing; Redbook seems more lethargic, less energetic than file playback. Comparing the two Redbook seems more constrained, less vivid and zippy. I'm very pleased with the vibrancy of the file playback and feel nothing has been sacrificed in any respect of audiophile-grade sound.

Amarra seems to work exquisitely well with the omnidirectional King Sound King Tower. I also have widened the placement of the omni speakers by about 10" for each speaker; that's quite a large change, and the result is preferable.

That is something I have to do with the Nimbus White yet. All my exemplary results with the speaker were while using my "old" positioning scheme. Now that I'm widening the stance of the speakers I expect another level of perceived scale and depth to be discovered. I know you felt the positioning was a bit too close together at the time of the review, and now that I'm widening it for other speakers with superb results I'm sure it will be sensational with the Nimbus White as well. I was concerned about the interaction of the side walls of the room, but this has thankfully been a non-issue, likely because of my overbuilding the room such that the walls are less reactive compared to typical room construction.

douglas_schroeder February 18, 2014 18:12

So Doug, with all your nice electronics options there ... was just wondering what you're running right now? Also wondering if you've tried those tube amps on the Nimbus?

vapor1 February 18, 2014 15:45

A short drive for the ardent audiophile is anything less than two days. :) I recall driving a few times up to five hours one way for audio appointments either with dealers, manufacturers or private parties who were selling gear.

If you are interested in discussing a visit, Roscoeiii, feel free to contact me via the Agon message system.

douglas_schroeder February 10, 2014 14:21

Hey Roscoe, you should talk to Doug about making the short drive up the street to hear the Whites in his room. Doug really knows how to put a system together, you'd be in for a treat!

vapor1 February 10, 2014 04:20

Look forward to reading that review. The less-expensive Nimbus Blacks sounded fabulous when I heard them at Ryan's when I was in St Louis. Very impressive speakers.

roscoeiii February 09, 2014 21:17

Ryan, thank you for the kind words! Without giving too much away prior to publication of the review of the Nimbus White, you are correct that my continued use of it is validation of the efforts of Vapor Audio.

I was impressed by the ease and sound quality obtained from your laptop setup when we were setting up the Nimbus White for the review. This prompted me to finally take the plunge and go with file playback. The result has been glorious, better sound quality than I anticipated and convenience off the charts! I have been hearing rumors of specialty servers, such as Linux-based ones as the Antipodes, besting the Mac Mini setups. So, I would welcome the comparison.

douglas_schroeder February 09, 2014 13:31

Hey Doug, it's an honor for our design to be featured in your exceptional room and system! You have a very finely tuned ear, and the Nimbus finding a permanent home with you serves as significant validation of our work. Especially since you have so many other top flight speakers from which to choose.

I'll look forward to my next visit so we can compare your Mac with the Antipodes music server. That should fun, and the results will I'm sure be of interest to many others.

vapor1 February 08, 2014 03:38

Doug....very excited to see the latest round of changes and experimentation in your system! I owe you a call that's overdue to catch up as well. Cast one more vote on Mac for Audivarna Plus on top of iTunes; it's quite special. Through what I must admit is limited testing over the last year or so I am finding I am most happy with files ripped in Apple Lossless format (.m4a file extension/format). When I share them with people or even convert them to other formats, the trueness to the original source material is extremely good and a couple of friends have commented about how well they seem to come over.

zephyr24069 January 21, 2014 10:40

Awww, man, Elescher, you're killin' me! I'm putting in inordinate amounts of time, etc. to set this up, and now you're saying it gets "blown away" by a box! This is exactly what I was afraid of - that after all the work some box would render it useless.

I would suspect that a large portion of the differential in sound would be due to the DAC which is used. I have had enough experiences with components that I believe the selection of the cables and DAC can tip the scale in my favor in terms of achieving the sound I want. (Time will tell if that is borne out) I am going to proceed under the assumption that as long as I have good files (lossless AIFF) I can assemble a USB DAC and Mini combo which will be exceptionally good. I have heard stunning demos at shows which use this method, or with PC laptop, so I know it can be done. There is always another avenue, another method.

Frankly, I'm not thrilled about all the investment of time in setting up the music database, but it's a necessary event if I want to even consider a server. If the Mac Mini gets trounced by some server box I'll use it as a regular computer somewhere else. But I'm a long way from that point right now... :)

douglas_schroeder January 20, 2014 19:33

I would go one step further and look into acquiring on of the many new music servers on the market. I ended up with the Bryston BDP-2 and it blows away the Mac Mini with upgraded SOTA power supply I had previously. I tried nearly all the media server software with the Mac and liked Audivarna the most.

elescher January 20, 2014 16:52