UPDATE (12/23/07): added the MBL 5011 preamp. After living with my Esoteric front end for almost 3 months without a pre, I came to the realization that a pre was definitely needed. Without a pre, the sound was a bit thin and lacking bass. The 5011 addressed these issues and so much more. I did not realize how poor my soundstaging was until I introduced the 5011. This pre does in incredible job of layering the soundstage as well as separating each individual instrument.
UPDATE (12/07/07): added the Ayre MX-R amps. These were broken in by my dealer for 2 weeks before I took delivery. I rarely am taken back by gear but I was startled at how much real these amps sounded to me than my previous amps. There is more detail, more immediacy of notes, very good separation of instruments, and a very nice holographic presentation. I can go on and on but by far these amps are the most realistic sounding I have come across. They are just so enjoyable to listen to!
UPDATE (9/29/07): added Esoteric P-03 transport and D-05 DAC. The D-05 has the latest 32 bit DAC from AKM. Even only after a few hours I hear much better separation between instruments and notes, better sustain and decay, and more authoritative bass. More updates to follow.
UPDATE (8/03/07): added the Oyaide R1 outlet for my amps. Everything is a bit livelier with much better detail. I am hearing so many little nuances I have never heard before!
UPDATE (7/24/07): added the Oyaide SWO-GX Ultimo outlet to my front end. What a difference! The bass now goes lower and there is more detail across the board. I will adding another outlet for my amps next. This is by far one of the best tweaks I have ever done.
UPDATE (7/13/07): I finally got around to adding some heavy silk drapes and they made a world of difference. Everything is much smoother. I will continue to look for ways to judiciously treat my room without making it look like a recording studio.
Beauty:
-The sound is just incredible. Vocals are holographic and textured.
-The MBL 5011 preamp is beautiful to look at. Luckily the sound is just as good.
-The Ayre MX-R amps are just gorgeous to look at. The casework is outstanding. And as my wife said, "they are so cute"!
Beasts:
-The Usher BE-10 speakers are big and thick producing a powerful yet delicate sound.
-The Esoteric P-03 transport is incredibly heavy (75lb) and big but it sure sounds good.
My system has undergone A LOT of changes over the last few years. This has been mainly to me figuring out my own listening preferences and understanding what I wanted to get out of my system. After swapping out a lot of components and spending too much money, I have finally settled down a bit.
I listen to all kinds of music but tend to favor anything with female vocals, particularly acoustic folk and vocal jazz. I also favor simple orchestration and basic instrumentation with a preference for acoustic guitar and piano. The less number of instruments between me and the vocals the better. I mainly go to listen to music in small, intimate venues where I am able to sit within a few feet of the band.
Given my musical tastes, I wanted to put together a system that is able to reproduce the sound as organically as possible. I want to hear every little detail like the quiver in a singer's voice, the sound of the guitar pick striking the string, the feeling of the hammer hitting the piano string. To me, these tiny nuances help to make the music sound as real (i.e. organic) as possible. To this end, I wanted a system that was detailed, dynamic, fast, and immediate with just a hint of warmth. I did not want anything that was too syrupy sounding though. My current system gives me everything I am looking for. It is as close to hearing musicians in my room that I have ever heard with any previous iteration of my system.
I love the Esoteric sound so much I had to get their P-03 transport.
Esoteric D-05
Anniversary model with new AKM 32 bit DAC
Esoteric VRDS-Neo
This transport is a work of art! By far, the best, most accurate transport available. The amount of detail it extracts is amazing!
Sonos ZP-80
Wireless digital music system. Digital output is sent to Esoteric D-05 DAC, a huge improvement over internal DAC. I enjoy my music so much more now that I have instant access to my 40K song library
MBL 5011
A very musical preamp with outstanding soundstaging and separation of each instrument.
Ayre Acoustics MX-R
I am so happy with these amps. They make everything sound so real it is startling! The transparency and dynamics suit my preferences perfectly!
Usher BE-10
Very dynamic and neutral sounding speaker. I am sold on beryllium!
Tara Labs The One
Very transparent and "tight" sounding cable that also offers weight and solidity. These give me all the virtues I admired in my previous speaker cable, the Nordost Blue Heaven while providing what it was missing.
Acoustic Zen Silver Reference II
Used between my source and preamp. Great detail without sounding bright or edgy.
Acoustic Zen Matrix Reference II
Used between my preamp and amp. Very smooth sounding.
Acoustic Zen MC2 XLR
AES/EBU digital cable from Esoteric P-03 transport to D-05 DAC.
Acoustic Zen Silver Byte
Used to synch the word clock from the Esoteric D-05 DAC to the P-03 transport.
Acoustic Zen MC2 RCA
Digital cable from Sonos ZP-80 wireless digital music system to Esoteric D-05 DAC.
Virtual Dynamics Nite 3
Being used to power by MBL 5011 preamp. Like all VD power cables I immediately noticed more dynamics, speed, and authority. The soundstage with the VD power cables are incredible!
Star Sound Technology SP-4 Sistrum Stand
Great amp stand that helped to add smoothness to my system.
Oyaide SWO-GX Ultimo
Double cryo'd outlet with 24K gold plating - used for cdp and preamp
Oyaide R1
Cryo'd ac outlet with Beryllium/copper and palladium plating - used for amps
HiFi Tuning Fuse
I added this "audiophile" fuse to my MBL 5011 preamp. I am not sure it made any difference but it was cheap and lord knows I have spent much more money on things that actually made my system sound worse! My previous preamp, Classe CP-700 did respond positively to these fuses though. I still may try some in my other components.
Marc, good to hear from you. I would really like to go crazy and look at some super high end speakers but I just cant imagine spending crazy money on speakers. If I did, I would like to listen to the Hansen, Marten Coltranes, etc. Ideally I would look for a smaller, full range speaker that does not sound small. For now, my humble Ushers will have to suffice.
me thinks by springtime, you'll be out shopping for new speakers. avalon, rockport, wilson. there will be a few others on the short list, no doubt. afterall, your system's weakest part is the ushers. talk about a front end's potential unfulfilled LOL. start listing to speakers in the $30-50k range. just how much finesse do you think your beloved ushers present from the 3 box esoteric etc??? you may be hearing close to the best your current speakers will ever present, but that is hardly all your system can recreate. you do want inner detail, right? happy auditioning. cheers, marc
Thanks Mike! Good to hear from you again. Assuming you still have the Ushers, our systems are becoming more and more alike. I would love to hear your impressions of the 5011.
I have tried HiFi Tuning fuses in the past with good results. What value does the MBL 5011 need? It looks like 20mm/0.75" fuse at 630mA. Do you know if I should get slow or fast blow?
If you really want a treat, replace the fuse in the MBL 5011 with the ceramic Tuning fuses....it really opens this baby up. I added the same preamp to my setup a couple weeks ago, a major upgrade! Next for me will be the digital front end. The phono card in this unit is surprisingly good!
System edited: I think my system is ALMOST finally complete. I recently added the MBL 5011 preamp and the Ayre MX-R amps. These two pieces are much better suited to my tastes. My system has reached a level of detail, articulation, dynamics, and realism that I have not been able to achieve before. It is still a bit too early to make a complete evaluation of the MBL 5011 but so far it sounds fantastic! Happy Holidays!!!
Chris, thanks for the kind words and for bringing over ALL those cables!!!! It really is much more fun having a friend over and getting their opinion. Sometimes when you listen to your own system for too long, its hard to hear areas where it is weak. On the flipside, it is also easy to forget the things it does well. Your input definitely helped to re-orientate me. You are right, it was interesting to discover the different things we seem to value in our system. I have always enjoyed attending acoustic sets in small venues where I am in the first couple of rows. Because of this, I prefer systems that are detailed, delicate, and organic with great attack and dynamics. That being said, I see your point about soundstage width and bass. We agree that my soundstage height needs some serious help. The width part...I am not sure what I can do about this given my modest room.
You helped to make something I hate doing (auditioning cables) a lot more enjoyable. I really appreciate it. Not to mention, just shooting the breeze was a cool thing to do on a lazy Saturday afternoon. I look forward to coming over to hour beautiful home again and oggling your new TT (no you will not talk me into it).
Dev, thanks for the detailed input, all good points. I was actually thinking about getting the sistrum 101 for my speakers. I currently have the sp4 under my amps. I am not sure if it does anything but they sure look cool and do not take up too much space which is important in my small space/living room.
Hi Chrisla and Tboooe I'm sure that was fun to just actual get to trade stories back and forth along with listening to some great music.
I have a couple of points to make here with my own personal experiences so take it for what it is worth.
I find when trying to do these demos and removing and placing in new cables (IC's or speaker cables but not power cables) actually doesn't work for me. The reason I say this is that most not all cables need time to relax, settle in and can sound totally different then they should when not allowed this time, they can take a day, two or even three. I have actually pulled cables out of my own system trying to re-route so they have a cleaner install appearance, I may have changed their actual bend and when I put them back in my system sounded thin, bass issues, stage collapsed etc. This all corrected it's self with some time, usually a few days. When it comes to auditioning cables I feel it is very important to have them in for at least 2-3 days just so they can settle in. I'm not trying to be negative about your outcome but I just don't agree with the demoing process and with what you are describing leads to my own experiences so I would try again but leave them in the system for 3 days and then evaluate to see if this changes the outcome. I had one extreme situation when dealing with the VD cables, the image was not centre focused after playing around with the cables but to the point it was coming out of one speaker, never experienced this before but it did come back but actually took 3-4 days.
A friend purchased some Sistrum platforms and put them under his speakers and for what ever reason placed one under his stereo amp and he had all kinds of weird things happening, placed the platform underneath his other speaker and still had weird things happening to the point of calling me saying what's going on. I told him just wait they need to settle in, I personally have no clue what's going on with all of this but there is theory behind it all and the manufacturers can explain in depth. When I placed the Sistrums underneath the MBL's they defiantly improved, they are just unbelievable, the bass wow! focus wow! and the stage even more precise with better holographic detail, just unbelievable.
Tboooe's system should have a (slight) edge and this would be nit picking on being more image precise sharpness than the MBL's but not by that much as I'm experiencing my self they are very very slight over my Andra's image.
When I went and heard Exlibris system with his MBL's I experienced a overly large balloon effect focus and this did concern me but I was listening into his system trying to retrieve other factors. I have heard allot of systems not dialed in with a similar effect, not quiet exaggerated but could have been corrected. In this same room where my MBL's are now I originally had W/P 7's which I felt had a razor sharp unrealistic image, these got replaced by Eggleston Andra 2's which were less focused (slightly less focused) but to me sound more realistic and more musical, these speakers I felt dominated the W/P 7's by far. Now comes in play the MBL's, the over all sound characteristics is just totally different which I prefer by a far margin and I am currently loss for words what I am experiencing. Now take into account that these are new to me but not the placement and what I'm use to hearing in this room. The focus was absolutely a big balloon effect initially when I was hearing them at Exlibris place but not at mine, Sistrum Platforms assist in this along with believe it or not the Holographs. Exlibris does have Holographs but I'm not sure if they are dialled in and if they are than it is something else which could be many different factors. Yesterday when I was listening I was playing around with the degree settings with the Holographs and could not believe what I was hearing, I actually could dial that image focus right in or out which was really interesting so Chrisla this is one item I would recommend for you and yourself Tboooe they work! It's funny really because when I bought them I just laughed saying please these do something and said boy am I ever going to have a expensive camp fire with these the next time I go camping. Sistrum platforms underneath the speakers, they work also and every person I know that has tried them was very happy with the results, Chris I sent you a pic showing the MBL's placed on them.
So that's my take after reading this, too bad we don't live close so we could get together.
I got to listen to Tommy's system yesterday. What a treat, and both he and his wife were such gracious hosts. His system is in upgrade mode right now, so I really want to stick to some observations I made, not about his system so much, which is very transparent,resolving and looks like an audiophile version of Angelina Jolie, but about other things that surprised me.
1. Yes, he has made a Sonos believer out of me. For background listening, and for ease of significant others, its cheap, it works, it streams, what else could you ask for? Yes, I noticed differences vs a disc I brought, he has a very revealing system. But for parties or background? It was just fine. It was fast, it was easy, it was fun.
2. He has big honking speakers, but the way he has things positioned and the matching of his components, it is MUCH LESS visually obtrusive than my system. It fits and does not dominate the entire room. Very impressive there. I think Tommy ought to think about audio design. His system really really SHOULD visually dominate the room, but it is very organic in it.
3. I brought a bunch of cables as he hasn't finalize that part of the system. What was very revealing to me, for instance, in my system , Nordost Valhallas widened and shortehed the layers against virtually any other cable I have tried, in his it minimized the soundstage width...very very strange, but it hammers home the point that system matching, for your exact system, is critical. The different cables did different things in his system sometimes, and sometime no. I am sure people experienced in listening to other's systems know this (ie reviewers) but I was just amazed at how those cables, although they still were speedy, and transparent, although thinner than the rest, did the exact opposites in our systems as regards soundstage widening.
4. What I listen for, and what is important to me, for instance, full bass notes, is less important to him. He was listening more for inner detail. Listening to the same tracks, we would often find different things, and neither of us would notice what the other heard. Therein lies the subjectiveness of system matching or listening to what others tell you. We definitely heard many of the same things, but the relative imporance of them to each of us was widely different. He listens at a lower level than I generally do, and that changes things as well.
5. Definitions of things. We both agree that he had a short soundstage, but he thought the width of his soundstage was just fine whereas it felt too narrow for me. But here's the rub... for him, my system makes people's heads be as big as large ballons, and seems totally unrealistic. So who's right? He's right for his system, and I'm right for my system. The bottom line is, if one is happy with what their system is doing, then it's right for them. We'll try some different things in his system to help that soundstage get higher (cables could add 18" when we were playing) and then we'll try some different things in my system to fix its perceived imperfections. With these comments, please don't get me wrong, this is a great system. We both are audiophile nitpickers, most people would probably never notice what we notice. I could easily easily live with his system, in fact, I am definitely jealous of the sound he has at the pricepoint, it is better than systems I have put together at much more money!!
6. Some things though, were completely the same in both of systems. The use of Tara Labs the One power cords for instance. It did the same exact things in his system as mine, and further, we both heard the same exact things. Total agreement on those I think. Different thoughts on everything else we did. Speaker cable is the first thing I would work experiment with, to him, the ICs made a much bigger difference. It just highlights for me, the importance of system matching, and more importantly working to a goal for a system. Tommy is much more systematic than me, although we both have definite importances.
So for those who have only gotten to listen a little at a dealer's, I urge you to find someone as gracious and patient as Tommy to be an audiobud with, I learned so much in a few hours, and I am sure our collaboration will make both our rigs more enjoyable. Plus, only one of us had to buy some of those cables and then sell 'em on audiogon;)
Tommy, I can't wait to hear your rig with the finishing touches!
Apo, you're the funniest blogger on the Gon! My M3 was the generation after (E46?), a socalled CSL (Compact Sportlich Leicht)version with top speed capped at 280 km/h. 380 bhp with >100kg's less weight and the 6 gear sequential gearbox on the steering wheel, like playing a video game, except it's REAL and very LIVE!!! If you'd loose control at topspeed...game over...
Yes, a current M6 would put a damper on the audiophile budget...and the soundsystem inside isn't even that good!
Oh well, Father Christmas coming soon. Wonder what he has for me this year. Happy holidays to you all!
MBL and Ayre are not better than Pass. I must repeat this daily, often. MBL and Ayre are not better than Pass. MBL and Ayre are not better than Pass. If I say this often enough, it might even become true. MBL and Ayre... I must work daily to wrap myself in a tight cocoon of denial. I can afford denial. I cannot afford upgrades. I don't need upgrades. My system is still on the bleeding edge. Yes. That's the ticket. MBL and Ayre are not better than.. dang. It's not working. I wonder if those GamuT monoblocks- NO. I must not deviate from the Path. (deep breath) MBL and Ayre are not better than Pass. MBL and Ayre mumble mumble...
I had an M3. E36 four-door with the five-speed. Uncle-spec 240hp, but that was plenty. Easily the best, most responsive, funnest car I ever had. I especially loved the ten-way adjustable seat that used all manual levers! Genius. I sold that car alas, and now I have a big stereo. My amps are among the best made. Yeah. That's it. They're still first-round draft picks. I must memorize and repeat... lol cheers apo
Henry, LOL...considering how happy I am with the pieces I have assembled, I do believe my upgrades will slow down a bit. The only big question mark is the preamp. I should be getting my 5011 pre next week. Given how impressed I am with the Ayre amps, I do have one eye looking out for the new Ayre KX-R pre coming out next year. Honestly Henry, I am not sure how the MX-R does in terms of "midrange/top end...extended and smooth at the top, do you have top definition of the soundstage, depth, width and height". I have never been very good at analyzing gear and how it makes music sound. Perhaps I just do not have the vocabularly or skills. I tend to look at the bigger picture. The only criteria I have is whether music sounds good to me. I dont really know why the MX-R sounds so good to me but it does. Everything sounds more realistic, quicker, more detailed. I am very rarely taken back by anything I hear from audio gear but the Ayre startled me with how organic and real it made my music sound. Perhaps the amps I had before was total rubbish (I doubt it), but to my ears, the MX-R is really outstanding.
Aside from the pre, I will be focusing on cables next.
As for vinyl, I am purposely keeping away. I just dont want to go down that path even though I know how good it can sound. Knowing me, I would easily spend insane amounts of money on a tt, arm, cartridge, rack, cable, records...I am actually trying to slow things down a bit and enjoy what I have. Not to mention I have my eye on that M6 in the near future.
It would be worth it to sit in traffic in order to have the opportunity to visit with you and listen to your wonderful system! We currently have about 6 of our employees in Mechelen right now installing a large piece of equipment. I will be heading there sometime after the new year.
Take care, keep in touch, and happy holidays to your family!
Tommy, you got the upgrade bug badly, slow down and enjoy some fully run-in gear too for a while. So much more great music out there to be discovered, back in Europe here huge amount of talent I never heard of in the US.
About the analog stuff, man it's so true, nothing out there digital can touch top analog. Not the top DCS stack nor Esoteric's best. IMHO you've got to have an top analog rig if you really want to hear the best. Also I think MBL is absolutely fantastic, when you get the whole reference line and you have the space to put it in, without the wife complaining. How are you finding the Ayre's in the midrange/top end...extended and smooth at the top, do you have top definition of the soundstage, depth, width and height? I heard them on the Magico mini's II and they didn't bowl me over. The mini's however, hmmm nice for a second system...some day!
On second thought Mechelen to Antwerp is jammed daily...may be more than 30-45 mins during rush hours!
Hi Dev, I think yes 9011s are overkill, at least in my room, which considering the complexity of the house, includes the kitchen and dining room and is in reality quite large. Were I to do it again, yes I would probably do 9008s, although I never heard them side by side. I'll also probably steal Tommies MX-Rs next week while he's not looking;)
Hi Chrisla, I just gotta do it and then I'll know and never have to wonder what if and you know it will be a interesting learning experience, everything is already on order anyways. Once I have chosen between the two, Berning and CAT next will be MBL.
I will try the Tara Labs also but that will be a little down the road as I have so much going on right now.
I read where you aren't even using all the power of the 9011's, are they over kill then and is it best to go with the 9008's?
Vinyl will be pretty simple for me, Teres Certus 460 direct drive with matching stand. I owned the 340 prior and really enjoyed the unit along with the the looks are stunning if you have appreciation for wood.
Chris LOL!!!! U are probably right...I need to stay away from you. You are bringing the dark side of the force from two directions...MBL and vinyl. You are not good for my wallet! Looking forward to seeing you next week.
Come to the darkside Dev, Tommy's heard my system that;s pretty much all mbl. I wanted to do the selfsame thing you are, but what do I end up with? At the end of the day? The same thing most people I know end up with, all MBL and Tara...very sad.
Cheers, Chris
also TOMMY, you know and I know that once you get that preamp in your system... you will join Darth Chris on the MBL side;)
Tboooe regarding cables I only wish I would have tried Stealth product earlier as I would have been able to save allot of time and money. They just let you hear your gear and that's what I want, I don't want things added as other cables I have owned do.
Regarding components this will be a whole new learning curve but I believe the amps play a major role and there really are a limited amount available that will truly work with these speakers.
Everyone recommends to just get the MBL 6010D pre and 9011 or 9008 mono blocks and be done with it. If I went that route then it would be no fun and in the back of my mind I would be always thinking what if. Here are my thoughts; I'm getting both of these amps I mentioned to you as they are both on order, the Berning and CAT to compare and see which ones I prefer. Once this is done then I will get the MBL amps and pre., by this point I will be very familiar with the sound and it should be quiet easy once I put the MBL amps and pre into my system to see which I prefer. I'm currently still using the ARC REF3 pre.
Hi Dev. You are such a stud! Those 101e's are stunning. I am going to have to look up those amps. As for cables I am in the process of trying to figure things out. I am also going to do true biwire, as recommended by Ayre. The Stealth stuff is great but really pricey but I guess if you are playing around with a limited production amp, expensive cables are probably not that big of a deal!
You are right about the pre. I am waiting for my new MBL 5011 pre. What pre are you using? Why not the MBL 6010d?
Tboooe I have heard the same amps in someone else's system and it really sounded great. I knew that you would have to go the route of getting another pre. I personally have tried numerous times direct and it is nice but a pre is a must for me anyways. I actually just sold my Pass X-600.5's but I have to say they truly are marvelous amps.
I received my new speakers the other day (MBL 101E's) best packing system I have ever had, even better than Wilson. The speakers pulled out of the wooden crates on a drawer system and then you just unbolt them from the bottom and you are done, absolutely marvelous. It's now time to break them in which apparently does not take allot of effort to do as dynamic driver speaker do.
You are likely asking so what did you replace the Pass amps with, well not exactly sure which one but this is what I have done.
I have ordered a pair of Berning Quadrature-Z mono blocks, only 24 pair being made so not to many people know about these and I have also ordered a pair of CAT JL3 SIG. latest version mono blocks so I should have some fun once I get them so we will see.
I also have gotten out of using Virtual Dynamic cables in my system and gone all Stealth, 2 separate pairs of Dream speaker cables so that I'm true bi-wired along with Dream power cables through out, I currently already use their latest version of the Indra with the Stealth connectors in which I'm very pleased with along with their Sextet digital cable.
System edited: Just added the Ayre MX-R amps to my system. Without getting into too much detail, all I can say is that my system has never come as close to reaching my goals as it does now. The music is so real sounding its startling! I am VERY happy!
Great looking system,,,,Beautiful speakers !I also love good female vocals,,picked up a couple CDs that are pretty good,Robinella and the CC Stringband ,also The Ditty Bops"What is the Time?" I bet your system sounds as good as it looks!On my way to work,but will read all 4 pages later!Ray
