Melbguy,

Have you heard the Audio Research preamps with solid state amps like Pass. I am also considering the Audio Research LS-27 tubed preamp as another alternative and wonder how it would mate with my mono blocks. Thanks Stephen

pettyfeversk February 04, 2012 22:17

Hi Steve, it really depends on what kind of sound you want. Rowland use ic op amps extensively in the Corus which i'm not a fan of. I changed the ic op amps in my Ayon CD-5s to adiscreet Burson op amps which made a big improvement. The Pass XP-20 looks like an excellent pre & a high end bargain, though it wouldn't sound as warm as a McCormack or CJ. If you're open to tubes & don't need balanced connectors, another excellent value pre would be a pre-loved CJ Premier 17LS - http://www.stereophile.com/tubepreamps/370/index.html
Cheers,
MG

melbguy1 January 29, 2012 05:01

Melbguy,

Thanks for the response. I have given thought to the Rowland Corus, The Pass XP-20, and the Calipso (spelled wrong). thanks for your suggestion also.

pettyfeversk January 27, 2012 02:55

Hi Steve, great to hear your enjoying your Pass XA-100.5's. They are sweet sounding amps! If you're still considering preamps, you might want to look at this pre from McCormack. McCormack are now owned & built by Conrad Johnson, and I believe Steve McCormack still consults to CJ. The McCormack pre would be warmer than the Pass & is a high end bargain imho. Here is a link -

http://www.mccormackaudio.com/index1.html

melbguy1 January 26, 2012 12:37

Spaz,

If you can find out what Rowland that was, it would be helpful. I am curious which one he was comparing the Pass preamp to. Thanks Stephen

pettyfeversk January 25, 2012 00:23

Looks like someone needs a Pass xp20 .I talk to another Audiophile here and he said his new xp20 smoked his Rowland..food for thought.Not sure what Rowland he had..Great system by the way..

spaz January 24, 2012 08:22

Saturday night, hurt my back shoveling snow. Great New England weather. Enjoying my system, the amps are pretty much burned in. I have about 500 hours on them. I would not think I would hear many more changes but you never know. I may try the Pass XP-20 to compare it with the Rowland Capri.

pettyfeversk January 21, 2012 22:16

I am sorry for any typos in my comparison but wanted to get it on Audiogon at this point. I checked it a few times before posting but just noticed a few. Also, I would like to thank Mark at Reno HiFi for his assistance in the process. I know many dealers get a bad rap but Mark is one of the good people in Audio. He takes the time to answer questions and is always willing to discuss anything related to the world of Audio.

pettyfeversk January 12, 2012 02:44

Pass XA.60.5 Monoblocks to Pass XA.100.5 Monoblock
I had written a review of the Pass XA.60.5 Monoblocks so rather than do another complete review, I thought it might be more informative to discuss the differences I have experienced when I recently upgraded to the Pass XA100.5 Monoblocks. I had asked for feedback on Audiogon about making such a change and would like to address some of the responses I received (and appreciated) now that I have had the real world experience of listening to the new amplifiers. I always have mixed thoughts about component burn in but for the sake of clarity, I have over 300 hours on the new XA 100.5 monoblocks. All of the other components and cables have remained the same from the time of the previous Pass XA60.5 monoblocks. The room is the same, my living room, which is 12 by 23 with the loudspeakers on the short side about seven feet apart, fifty six inches from the wall behind them, and about 2-3 feet from side wall and staircase on the other side. Certainly, not a perfect room, but we do the best we can with what we have. I will say that I have had systems in much larger rooms years ago and personally have been able to achieve better sound in a smaller room given imperfections in all the rooms I have had my systems in.

I should again mention the loudspeakers as they are a very important factor in the determination of the match with amplifiers. I have Tyler Acoustics/Woodmeres which have a sensitivity of around 89-90. These are fairly large speakers that are 4 ohm and have two 10 inch bass drivers, 2 seven inch mids, and the tweeter and are all SEAS drivers. If you look at the system photos, you can see the speakers. They can take a good amount of juice and the drivers react to any kind of component change I have made over the period of time I have owned them.

Some of the issues I will discuss are the following:
*2db change from Pass XA60.5 to Pass XA100.5
*Stereo XA30.5 to XA60.5 to XA100.5-"sweetness of the sound"-concept that you lose some when you increase the power of the amp
*Soundstage and Imaging Details
*Bass (quality and quantity)
*Weight and Fullness of Sound
*Knowing what I do now, would I make the change again with the current information and knowledge?

2db change from Pass XA60.5 to Pass XA100.5

One of the thoughts that was expressed to me about the upgrade was that a 2.25 db change would mean nothing and the sound would not be very different. Well, the change in power makes a difference and in my case with my speakers in my room, makes a big difference. With the XA100.5, the system has the capacity to play very loud and at a very high quality but the bigger change is at lower listening levels, and normal listening levels. My music, whether rock, classical or jazz sounds more lifelike through the complete sound spectrum, highs to the lowest bass. The XA100.5 have the capacity to drive a more demanding speaker. Mine are somewhere around 89-90 4ohm( not inefficient) and the ease of the XA100.5 to drive them is highly evident. The XA60.5 did not take control of the speakers in the same way and the XA30.5 was not able to match well with the speakers due to the lack of power. Could one live with the XA60.5 and my speakers, in a word yes. It would be someone who does not push the amps by playing them loud at times or have the kind of music that tends to have dynamic swings. In my experience with the XA60.5, I pushed them enough that they went into A/B a fair amount of the time. Truthfully, I think the XA60.5 Monoblocks would be better with other speakers that are easier to drive.

Stereo XA30.5 to XA60.5 to XA100.5-sweetness of the sound-concept that you lose some when you increase the power of the amp

I read threads where audiophiles comment that the XA30.5 is the sweetest amp in the XA line and when you go to the higher powered amps, you lose that sweetness. Well, that is just not true in my experience as someone who has owned half of the XA line. The XA60.5 and now the XA100.5 have every bit of sweetness that the stereo amp had. I don't feel I lost anything in this area with the higher powered amps. I wonder if those who believe this have really heard many of the amps in the XA line. I have not heard the XA160.5 and the XA200.5 but if you have concerns about upgrading from the XA30.5, in terms of losing the sweetness of the sound, the mono blocks will give you all that you get from the XA30.5 and more. That is my opinion from owning these amps. My bias over the years has been to monoblocks. I think they drive the speakers with more ease than a stereo amp but that is always open to debate.

Soundstage & Imaging Details

The soundstage is wider than with the previous amps. I hear more sound coming from the sides behind the speakers. The images are more focused as if a lens has sharpened the picture. I hear and feel the separation on stage with all of the instruments and sometimes with the XA100.5, I am actually fooled as I hear things that I have not heard on a particular CD and it takes me a couple of seconds to realize that the particular CD was generating that sound. I actually have thought that something else was going on in my room. In addition, I hear more of the subtle information with the XA100.5 vs the XA60.5. I mean hearing the breathing of the performers and background instruments that I have not heard previously. The bigger amps pick up those nuances in the music much more than the other XA amps I owned. The images are bigger and fuller and that improves the presentation of the music.

Bass

The Tyler Woodmeres have the capacity to go pretty low and with the XA100.5 amps, there is an increase in the amount of low end that I hear. I can better differentiate the lower note details . The bass is more realistic using the XA100.5 than with the other XA amps I owned. Of course, if you have a loudspeaker that does not produce and deliver much of the low end, no amp is going to make that appear. The loudspeaker will need to have the ability to go low. Many speakers I have owned, quality loudspeakers, did not go very low, and the amp change would not have affected those speakers.

Weight and Fullness of Sound

Now we are getting to the core of the change and the biggest difference I experienced so far by upgrading from the XA60.5 to the XA100.5 monoblocks. My system is getting a much bigger sound in terms of fullness and weight. The smashing of the drum kit seems more realistic to me. On many of the recordings where there is much percussion, I can better imagine the drummer really hitting a full drum kit. All of the instruments have a larger, more realistic sound, including voices. The whole sound has a more weighty feel to it and that gives it a more realistic feel than what I previously had. Its hard to convey these changes without someone hearing the two sets of mono blocks but the XA100.5 give a bigger sound to the system and a thicker deeper sound to the system. These amps are taking more control of the drivers and the sound reflects that.

Knowing what I do now, would I make the change again with the current information and knowledge?

Well, as one goes up the XA line, one pays the price for the more powerful amps so there is always the question of whether the upgrades are worth that extra money spent. It hard to put an exact per cent in terms of improvement. All I can say with system component changes is that I have tend to have one of two reactions. One is that the effect is minor and not worth additional money and the other is that the change is great enough that I want to keep the new component and it is a significant improvement to my system. This change from the Pass XA60.5 mono blocks to the Pass XA100.5 Monoblocks is one of those significant changes. I am getting so much more from these amps and the system is playing at a higher level which is really all I can ask from a component upgrade. Again, it is always system dependent. I think that if my speakers were not as power hungry, the change would not have impacted to the same level. I have found that my Tyler Woodmeres are very sensitive to component changes which helps in evaluating what is happening. I have noticed this with amps as well with sources. I was surprised how much the system was effected by changes in the CD source when I tried about five different players in the system some months ago. And last but not least, the room is many times the biggest component in the whole system. It effects every aspect of how the system sounds including the amplification. I certainly do not claim to be any type of expert in the audio world. I have learned whatever little I know by trial and error. As you can see from my posted system (Forever Done, Never Done), I have gone through a great number of components. My opinions are only offered so they can be of some kind of assistance to someone else who may have some similar amp choices to make. To be honest, I am hooked on the XA line of Pass Amplifiers. I have owned many amps and they have all had many fine qualities but the Pass XA line is something very special to me. Yes, they do use a fair amount of electricity but once burned in, I leave them in the standby mode. They have an alluring midrange, a wonderful transparency, image really well, give me very good low end, and play with an ease and smoothness that allows me to listen for hours. The Pass XA line is very unfatiguing and that makes a big difference to me. My music listening is my therapy. I work in a conflict management role and when I come home from work, i can be listening for 3-4 hours a night and much more on the weekends. My living room is my stereo room. (one advantage of living with just my dog, she is very tolerant) For a frame of reference, other amplifiers that I have had in my systems over the years included Simaudio Monoblocks (500 watts per channel), Musical Fidelity Nu-Vista Integrated, Musical Fidelity Tri-Vista Integrated, DK Design Integrated, Pathos Acoustics Logos Integrated, Bel Canto 500 Monoblocks and Bel Canto Stereo 500, Conrad Johnson Stereo Amp, Adcom 555, B&K Inegrated, NAD Integrated, and probably many others I can't remember at this point.

One last point on this thread. If you have a different point of view related to anything I wrote or anything responders to my thread write, that is terrific. All I would ask is that we are respectful of each other. I get tired of reading threads where people are not respectful of each other. You may have more knowledge about Audio than myself or someone else, but the connection to educate someone or just reach someone through communication cannot be effective unless we are tolerant and accepting of one another. I hope new people want to get into high end audio and I hope some of those people want to have a 2-channel system. We need to cultivate that interest in the high end. Snobbery, intolerance, being condescending and sarcastic, does not foster positive relationships. I hope others will get into High End Audio and that is up to us to encourage. Thanks for taking the time to read this whole thread and I look forward to any responses from potential Pass XA amp owners, current Pass XA owners, or anyone who else who wants to share their thoughts.

by Pettyfeversk

pettyfeversk January 11, 2012 18:36

I am getting my comparison between the Pass XA60.5 amps and the Pass XA100.5 amps ready. I should be closing in on about 300 hours pretty soon. I will add the comparison to the amps section and also post it on my system page.

pettyfeversk January 10, 2012 00:15

Hi Steve, unfortunately I haven't had the opportunity to listen to Pass amps, however I read the TAS review of the XP-20 pre and amp very impressed! It is a dynamite value pre! With measured and objective performance far above it's price point. I mean a 2-chassis Pass preamp for under $9k is a bargain. The XP-20 is resolving and neutral in tonal palate, but I think given your warm sounding 100.5 monos & the laid back, warmish sound of the Woodmeres, you should achieve a wonderful balance. And running all-Pass amps should provide good synergy. It's all system dependent. For me to achieve that same balance given my resolving Altos & neutral-sounding Boulder, I knew I needed a good valve preamp and cdp with a touch of natural wamrth. Philosophically I prefer the combination of tube preamp & solid state power amp downstream anyway, so it was like "tick, tick.."

melbguy1 January 05, 2012 07:28

Hi Steve, likewise always nice to converse with a music lover, even on the other side of the world :) Aside from a few accessories & buying some vinyl and audiophile cd's, I plan to take it quietly for the first half of this year. Then I plan to trade up my current phono stage to a Boulder 1008 and upgrade my tonearm to a Helius Omega SR arm. I also plan to upgrade my Ayon CD-5s cdp/pre to possibly the next model of the Accuphase DP-700 (DP-710?) & upgrade to an Ayon Orbis preamp in the next 15 months or so. I've already bought 2 matched quads of 6H30P-DR tubes which i'm keeping aside for the Orbis. So essentially when i've got both the Accuphase & Orbis, my CD-5s is going up for sale. My only other plans are to upgrade my Oppo BDP-83SE to an Oppo BDP-93 at some stage, then i'm done for now as they say.
I've always wanted to own Accuphase, and the combination of the Boulder & Marten speakers with the warm sounding Accuphase & Orbis pre should sound wonderful!

melbguy1 January 05, 2012 07:01

Melbguy,

Good word, audiophilia. What other plans do you have for your system? The only other change that I would really consider at some point would be the preamp. The Rowland Capri is very good but the Pass Xp-20 would probably be an even better match for the Pass Amps. Rowland also makes the Corus preamp but it is very expensive. Do you have any experience listening to Pass preamps?

pettyfeversk January 05, 2012 03:21

Hi Steve, i'm glad you enjoyed the review. Like you, I was surprised how big a difference serious amplification can make. I agree, the amp imposes a much greater influence over the sound than the cables. The cables just enable your system to show it's best, and essentially not degrade the signal. "I might actually be done" Famous last words! I said that after I bought my Classe amp, and well we know what happened after that. I've since changed almost basically my whole system with lots more to come! But i'm happy to confess I have an serious case of audiophilia! ;)

melbguy1 January 05, 2012 01:41

I wrote my opening comments to the system back in 2004, more than 7 years ago when I thought I might be done with my system. Boy, was I ever mistaken. Is my system better now? Well, it definitely is but I made a lot of mistakes or attempts before I got here. What is next? Well, I hope to stay stable with the system. Some people have mentioned to me that they do not like Cardas Golden Reference but I find the cable very musical and natural so I have no plans to change it. I think the only other upgrade would be the preamp but The Jeff Rowland Capri is so good that it would have to be a strong improvement over the Capri. Rowland has the Corus now but that is out of my price range for a preamp. So other than the preamp, I hope to stay with the system and not make any other changes for a period of time. (I hope).


This is what I wrote 7 years ago:

I might actually be done. I find that this is the system sound I have been looking for. It can be played from very low volume levels to very high volume and gives me what I am looking for. The mid range defines the system and it is all there. The low end is present but not overwhelming and the system can be listened to for hours without being fatiguing. I have it tweeked with my room. My concentration has been on buying music. . Thats it for now.

pettyfeversk January 03, 2012 13:28

Melbguy,

Hi. I read the review and it was excellent, many specifics and so much information. Like you said, the amp is the engine that drives the system and the Boulder amp sounds like it does it at the highest level. It is an amp that lets the music come through and does not impose a signature sound on the system which is one of the hardest things for any amp to do. I hope you continue to enjoy it as well as the match with the Ayon CD5-S. Have a great 2012.

pettyfeversk January 03, 2012 00:14

Melbguy,

I look forward to reading your Boulder Amp review. Thank you fro mentioning it to me. Stephen

pettyfeversk January 02, 2012 22:32

Hi Steve, thanks for your New Year wishes. Yes, it's a bit frustrating having audiophile friends in other countries. That's our hobby I guess, but in a way creates a special bond amongst audiophiles. Also, I have posted a review of the Boulder 1060 in the Review section which should be up by the end of the day. That took me a lot of hours, so it should hopefully be a good read :)

melbguy1 January 02, 2012 18:50

Melbguy1,

Sounds like you have a wonderful system. One aspect of being an Audiophile that can be disappointing is that we all live all over the globe and can't get to hear others systems. I have read about Boulder amps. They are extremely highly regarded. What do they offer to your system and how would you describe their sound. You are right about the burn in. Since I had two other amps in the same family, I can tell that the new ones are not yet as smooth and transparent as they will be with more hours on them. I am only at about 100 hours so far. By the way, happy new year and its always good to communicate with you. Take care. Stephen

pettyfeversk January 01, 2012 16:04

Hi Steve,
I have Marten Coltrane Altos which are large 3-way standmounts. The Altos are 6ohm (3.9ohm with bass adjust in normal position) & 87db. Leif Olofsson told me the Alto’s need some power to fully bloom and to not be shy with power. He wasn't kidding! The Altos sounded anaemic connected to my previous Classe Cap-2100. The Boulder is a completely different animal and provides excellent control. The Altos dig down to 24Hz, and the 1060 is able to drive them with ease ease. I can't comment on the process of burn in for the 1060 as I bought it 2nd hand, but the Pass amps should start to open up around 150hrs & fully bloom by about 250hrs. Whilst running in my Ayon CD-5s, I found the sound was still a bit tight and closed in around 150hrs, but had almost fully bloomed after another 100hrs & now sounds wonderful. It's great to see your system developing to quite a high level.
Melbuy.

melbguy1 January 01, 2012 01:41

Melbguy1,

Thanks as always for your response. I forgot what type of Loudspeakers you have. Mine are 4 ohm and the higher level amp really makes a difference as they can take quite a bit of juice. I also notice much at the lower listening levels. Once they are burned in, I will write more on the difference. By the way, what are your thoughts about amplifier burn in? How much has it made a difference with your amps and how much time did your amps need to be fully set. This current pair were purchased new vs the other pair which were previously used. I only have 70 hours on them so far.

pettyfeversk December 31, 2011 15:00

Hi Steve, great to hear you went with the 100.5 amps on reflection. I was amazed at the difference (particularly in control and detail) I got from moving up to the Boulder 1060. The extra power, together with the Boulder's quietness provides wonderful low level detail, extra flesh & dynamics. Also, thank you for your reflections & New Year wishes. Also wishing you and your family a safe & happy New Year!
Regards,
MG

melbguy1 December 31, 2011 10:13

Faimachung,

Hi,

I rolled tubes when I owned the Jolida CD player and it is sensitive to the tubes you select. You dont have to bias those type of tubes. I bought old tubes (NOS) new old stock and make sure they are matched. I know some good people who have these type of tubes so email me if you would like to speak. I recommend Telefunken, they are less dark then the Mullards and offer a very balnced sound. Look forward to hearing from you. Stephen

pettyfeversk December 30, 2011 15:45

great posts. i haven't added any comments in quite a while, but read these threads frequently...i need to change the tubes in my jolida cd player, which is part of my system at work (self employed, thank goodness). I purchased a set of mullards 3 yrs ago....anyway, do i just drop them in or is there a biasing procedure to accomplish?

happy new year to all.....

faimachung December 30, 2011 14:26

I put up a thread about reflecting back on 2011 and the changes we have made to our audio systems. While there are many Audiophiles who have changed components or for that matter complete systems, there are also many Audiophiles who have stuck with the system they have had over the last year or years. As we near another new year, I am hoping that I can join that group of people who have stayed with their system or made minimal changes to it. I certainly have a track record of changing my system over the years as the title of my system suggests. There is an enjoyment associated with the impact of a new component but there is also a pleasure i would think of knowing that you had a system that continues to bring you pleasure and the focus can stay with the music which is why I got into this crazy world in the beginning.

On another front (and seemingly a contradiction), I just got the Pass XA100.5 Monoblocks and am in the process of burning them in which will probably take a week or so. I have some initial thoughts of how they compare with the Pass XA60.5 Monoblocks but to be fair, I want to wait and listen morebefore giving you a sense of the difference. I can say that even fresh out of the box last night, there were apparent changes to my system from the new amps.

pettyfeversk December 28, 2011 20:05