Chad,

Ever heard any of the Linn CD players? Opinions?

mapman June 26, 2008 04:08

Hi Mapman,

DCS make some great gear. The single box Puccini is the lowest in the new range now.

The Scarlatti is so good and I heard it first some time before the Puccini and the Paganini came out. So its unfair to compare, although I suspect the Paganini is probably the best value.

DCS have the finest resolution of anything I have heard. I think some people may have a problem with that kind of honesty from a source. But if your system doesnt need to hide anything then it will be just the thing.

Other players I have owned were Mark Levinson 31.5/30.6, Oracle, Audio Aero Capitole SE, and some other DCS players. Before that digital was rubbish and I dont want to admit to terrible sounding players from the early 90s I had. ouch!

I have heard MF players before like the Tri vista one. The impact of the leading edge and extremely low noise floor leave all the above including the MF players sounding dark, grainy, murky or soft. I was, after a little running in period, stunned that it was possible.

chadeffect June 26, 2008 02:49

ChadEffect,

Heard the DCS Puccini recently in a limited audition and was very impressed. I'm thinking of that unit as my current reference standard for comparison.

Wondering your impression of the DCS players versus the competition in general and what you may have used prior? Does DCS make players at lower cost points that incorporate any of the key design elements of the Puccini?

Have you ever heard the Musical Fidelity line of CD players for comparison?

mapman June 26, 2008 02:18

Hi JP,
the Apogees where mainly updated and modified by John Oakey/Graz. Although most of the external x over and its parts were chosen and experimented with by me first. The ribbons came from Australia and are the latest offerings from Graz.

After auditioning the best combination of parts, John came and checked it over and we did some final tweaks.

John is based in the UK and is extremely helpful. He has done an excellent job in helping bring my Apogees up to the level they are at now.

I do not bi amp as the duettas are very well driven by the 1000w per channel on tap from the Bel cantos. This seems to be more than enough to bring the ribbons to life. I am trying out bybees now

chadeffect June 05, 2008 09:03

hello, can you tell me who modified the apogees? and are you biamping them. Where are you located?
JP

analoghaven June 04, 2008 20:11

System edited: final tweaking of the Apogee cross over. Mundorf silver/gold in oil caps and a return to Caddock metal film resistors. I am speechless.

chadeffect May 18, 2008 00:03

System edited: The change of cables to Virtual dynamics has been very interesting. They are still burning in so will post findings when they settle. First impressions are of an extremely fast and dynamic cable with the best bass I have heard from a cable! Not quite as open in the highs as the AP golden oval or as 3D in the mids so far...

chadeffect April 29, 2008 15:06

Hi Number 95,
I am glad that you did get a chance to hear the Scarlatti, even if it was not in your own system. It really is a completely different sound isnt it. An amazing machine, but it is a lot of money I know!

The Paganini is meant to be very good too, but not quite up there with the Scarlatti. I just went for the Scarlatti. But if you were going to cut corners, I would say to go for the dac and clock first and use the older transport until you can save up for the transport.

I cannot advise you on that Esoteric combo as I have not heard it. But all I can say is a friend of mine who knows the Scarlatti very well, heard the Scarlatti next to the Esoteric P1/D1 etc on Halcro amps in Japan. He said it was obvious that the DCS was another step forward. He believed it was a little more vivid.

I am sure the Esoteric is very good, but I have a feeling DCS have got something very special and are on their own at the moment. Its time for someone else to equal or better the performance at a cheaper price. But who will it be?

chadeffect March 15, 2008 11:28

Hi Chad,
I could not have a home demo with Scarlattis due to some last minute issues but had a brief listening them at the dealer, also listened Puccini cd player. First I listened to the cd player, it seemed nice for a single unit player. Then Scarlatti combo including the clock. I might say I have not heard anything sounding similar or close. It was totally different. I have not yet listened a digital source so real in focusing and sounstage. It killed the cd player easily so Puccini reminded me like a good cd player but Scarlatti was something else. I really would like to try it at home if i can.
Do you have any experience/views with Paganini combo? In case Scarlatti exceeds my budget I might think of Paganini which is also expensive but considerably lower than Scarlatti combo.
Finally, what do you think of Esoteric combo d3/p3+clock, have you compared it to your DCS gear?
Have a nice listening!

number95 March 13, 2008 22:48

A very nice system you have there Chadeffect, great components!....and I won't even bother to tell you, what I think of the Apogees....(wink).

Dave

sogood51 March 12, 2008 15:37

Hi Ace427,
the Levinson is a fat and slightly dark sounding player compared to the DCS. It does not have the resolution, leading edge or low noise floor of the DCS elgar plus/verdi la Scala combo. The DCS combo kills it for dynamics, poise and control, leaving the ML sounding fuzzy.

Obviously the DCS Scarlatti is a whole other generation along and there is no comparison other than the scarlatti does sound fat but with mind bending resolution. The scaralatti makes the Levinson sound cloudy, distant, and grainy and just a bit old fashioned now IMO.

Like most electronics, the latest digital sources have come a long way and you probably wouldnt go back. I bet you could beat the Levinson 31.5/30.6 sonic performance with a modest CD player these days, although it would be tough to better the feeling of using such a monster. The ML is a classic.

I have to say I love the Levinson 31.5/30.6. The build quality is second to none, and it always works. It has no strange bugs etc. It is just a battle ship and you can always see the display and you have to love the silent motorized lid. You do feel special using it.

But you have to remember this Levinson came out quite a few years ago now. You probably wouldnt buy a computer from 2002. The ML for state of the art hifi now, is a too little tired. But it is a lovely toy no matter what.

Hope this helps.

chadeffect March 03, 2008 19:23

Hi Chadeffect, Can you describe me the differences between the Mark Levinson digital combo and the DCS?

ace427 March 02, 2008 23:18

Hi Gshelley,
yes I had the Verona clock in before. The Verona gives a little more dynamic contrast and a little more focus and speed to the DCS combo IMO.

I found with only the new Scarlatti clock added, the combo takes on a much more natural, solid, and warm presentation with detail beautifully presented. This makes for a very refined, rich sound, with a much less "cool or removed" presentation than before.

In fact the presentation is the finest I have heard and makes the Verona sound a little "hi-fi" or artificial by comparison.

In fact just adding the new clock completely changed my idea of what the DCS sound is or was. Then there is the Scarlatti DAC...

chadeffect February 27, 2008 11:45

Chad,
Did you have the dCS Verona before getting the Scarlatti Clock?

Can you give a comparison of the two?

Thanks,
Gayle

gshelley February 27, 2008 04:51

Number 95,
obviously the Scarlatti like most hi end gear needs to be burnt in then left on for a day or so to show its true performance. Although it was obvious straight out the box that it was special.

I would love to come and hear it through the 610Ts!

Do let me know how you get on.

Happy listening

chadeffect February 18, 2008 11:28

Mines are Svetlana 6550C. They have a perfect balance from bottom to top. I also used Tungsol 6550s with my old VT-200, I also liked them.

Happy listenings. (I will inform you about my DCS Scarlatti experience)

number95 February 17, 2008 22:26

Number 95,
nice work going through all those amps. I put my hand above the 610T while driving some Wilsons. Much global warming there! I do remember some very hot afternoons listening in the summer.

Which type of 6550s do you use? I found the Svetlana 6550c were the nicest balance. The cryod versions were excellent but expensive.

Another amp to have tried would have been the VTL S400 monos, but I am sure you are in good shape for years to come.

chadeffect February 16, 2008 23:57

You are right about B&Ws. I tried various amps, my old VT-200 was not a match. I tried Halcro DM-68 did not also work, together they were too analytical and lacked the midrange. Krell EVO-400 seemed to be ok, but high frequencies were too laid back. I really liked Classe Omega but something was still missing. Then Ref-610T. It is a different chapter. My dream of having the magic of push-pull tube amplification and at the same time absolute control and grip over my B&W came true. The only problem is mannnyyy tubes all over the place! 23x2 tubes are making the listening room a bit hot! In winter it is good but in summer, I need to turn on the air condition (a very silent running one). Every rose has its thorn :-)

number95 February 16, 2008 21:23

Hi Muralman,
You are correct "not stuff"!

Yes I like the scintilla very much but I run into a world of problems with 1 or 2 ohm speakers. This is where my beloved ICE power would fall apart. Maybe the Halcro would drive them.

I did have my eye on the Synergy, which Graz builds under Apogee now. Its a 98db sensitive scintilla! It was very dynamic and beautifully finished. He has gone to town on the magnet array. A major achievement. It was something I wanted to do to mine, but the cost was very high and I would have been better off just buying the Synergy really.

chadeffect February 16, 2008 11:08

Number 95,
I really liked the Audio Aero. Very musical, but a bit soft, with a shade of cloudyness in comparison.

I had the M2 Capitole SE with lastest power supply, cryod tubes and cap upgrades etc. I heard the Prestige which was nice but still from the same kind of world as the capitole SE, but obviously better.

The DCS is in a different world as it should be. Leading edge, dynamics, speed and top to bottom consistency and noise floor are world class. Flow and placement of spacial cues and depth are finest I have heard from CD.

I dont have the Scarlatti transport, but my feeling is while the DAC is amazing the clock is a master piece.

I know the B&W 800s well as I work with them in the studio sometimes although with the diamond tweeters. I can see why you need the 610Ts. Tough to get fast dynamics out of them. In the studio they are tri amped with Classe 400w monos plus subs!

I think you would find the DCS would be a nice combo with the ARC. That kind of detail and leading edge through the ARC qualities would keep you up all night! It would really give you more pace too with tighter bass.

As to cables I use the Analysis plus gold which are very nice cables. but I have Virtual dynamics on order! I havent really played around with cabling on the DCS as it sounded so good with the AP gold. The fire wire cable is important an I use a FW cable from the studio. Its silver and shielded but the Siltech is meant to be the one.

Dont forget some power conditioning!

chadeffect February 16, 2008 10:55

Chadeffect, Scintillas is not, "Stuff." :)

They are only the best Apogee around, not counting the Grand. I can say that
with confidence now after hearing both a better than new Diva, and likewise Full
Range.

I have an interested party coming tomorrow. These speakers are real hard to let
go. Good thing I have another pair.

muralman1 February 16, 2008 00:43

I understand your philosophy of listening to music and I respect. It seems this DCS gear is giving you even the smallest detail but without getting lost in details and without forgetting about listening to the main theme of music. I can really think about it even if it is very expensive.

I will listen to Scarlatti in a couple of days at home with my system and it will be a true test (much better than listening to at the dealer's system). I will also listen to them as directly driving my tube beasts and try to see what is changing (but I must confess ARC reference series has a synergy when being used together). However, I need to use in any case a seperate preamp since I also have my analog source.

My current cd player is a magical sounding Audio Aero Prestige SACD player (it has also a tube output and built in line stage, before Ref-3 arrived, I was using it as a preamp also. But Ref-3 is a totally different class), it really sounds like analog. It is a bit at the warm side of the music, not the most detailed cd player that I listened to but has a beautiful soundstage and a bit romantic with the music. But with some sort of music, it is sometimes less exciting or lacking some dynamics and attacks. So I wonder a very detailed and dynamic but true sounding digital source might be a magical companion with my ARC gear.

People say DCS are really cable dependent (digital, power cords etc) and it is a hard task to get optimum efficiency from DCS combo, do you have similar findings Chad?

My speakers are B&W Nautilus 800. I use Transparent Reference connectors and speaker cables, Shunyata Anaconda cords.

number95 February 16, 2008 00:14

Number 95,
that Audio Research Ref 3 is my favorite Valve preamp of all time. The 610Ts are very nice too of course. A lot of power for tubes. What speakers do you use?

I would try the Scarlatti player direct into your power amps if I were you. I bet it would be an awesome sound. The DAC has 2v and 6v output.

chadeffect February 15, 2008 19:55

Hi number 95.

I would say the Scarlatti is even more detailed than the Elgar plus and Verdi Verona etc. The difference is that it is less cool sounding. Just the new clock seems to stop it from being analytical. In fact it is quite warm and very "real sounding" player. I am a detail junky when comes to audio. I work a lot in recording studios so I am used to hearing things as they are.

I dont believe in hiding detail behind noise and distortion, although I have had very nice results with hifi that does just that. I find if you have the detail at source then you can look for the presentation you like. I have found filtering on the mains can work wonders here. If its on the disk I want to hear it!

chadeffect February 15, 2008 18:51

System edited: Arrival of Scarlatti system. Yes the DAC has now arrived!

chadeffect February 15, 2008 18:39