I have moved to a fully computer based set up as a source. No transport and none of those shiny disks any more.
The system has an open, huge soundstage, with very clean, tight bass that dives deep into two figure Hz.
The sound is very powerful and dynamic. Extremely detailed, but still warm, musical and believable and easy to listen to. With the right recording a reach out and touch holographic image and soundstage is possible.
I have been through quite a lot of equipment. I am and was a huge Audio Research fan for years, and I used their tube monos/preamps with great happiness.
I have pretty much always had planar speakers until recently. So I needed powerful amps to drive Magnepan2.6R/3.6R and Apogee Diva/Duetta sig etc.
I have moved to high sensitivity speakers in the form of the Avantgarde Trios now. This has enabled a move to very low powered SET amplifiers which has been great fun.
I have been searching for equipment that keeps the music free of colour and true to the recording. I believe you choose your source for its sound. The rest of the equipment should let the source do its magic as much as possible and get out of the way of the music.
This unit is modified with Mundorf silver/gold in oil caps, Mundorf tube cap, and Duelund VSF Cu caps. I use Emission Labs mesh plates 45 power tubes. A very refined and beautifully natural sounding amp. Very transparent.
DCS Scarlatti clock
Finest player in the world
Avantgarde Trio
19 ohm 109db/watt with 225 subs
DCS Scarlatti
State of the art number crunching.
PS audio Premier Power Plant
Power regenerator.
Analysis plus Golden oval XLR
Beautiful cable. Amazing detail and still warm and life like
Audio Magic Stealth XXX oyaide
Specially made with Oyaide XXX sockets and furutech input. Much more detailed than the Hydra it replaced
Apogee Duetta signature2 Heavily modified
These have the latest Graz ribbons both tweeter/mid and bass panels. I have external cross overs with mundorf silver/gold in oil caps and Alphacore foil inductors. Caddock resistors and all solid core silver wired. All suspended and vibration free. These apogees take much more power and go way louder and have much better dynamics than the original. Not only that but much improved sound quality. Simply stunning! I have had many planars magnepan etc but these really are the best in every way now. Long live Apogee and Thank goodness for Grazs search for perfection!
Virtual dynamics Revelation 2
This must be one of the only cables I have heard that when compared to cables that seem to "do nothing" or just pass signal untouched this cable does lots but in a good way! A staggering solid detailed sound, but a nightmare to plug in due to its size, weight and stiffness.
Virtual dynamics Master LE
Very nicely focused cable with very low noise floor. The best bass I have heard and startling dynamic speed
Oyaide SWO XXX/SWO GX
Its own spur and conditioned with various filters along the way before reaching the Stealth
Acoustic Revive RR-77
Sends out a very low frequency into the room which disrupts RFI EMI and makes you feel relaxed! Very odd but works well Seems to focus the mid range
Sonic studio Amarra
Bolt on for itunes
Auralex Lenrd Bass traps
I have 8 of these traps placed subtly in the corners of the listening room. They have done a very good job in a room that had quite tight bass anyway.
Weiss Medea plus
Latest super DAC. Volume control on Firewire input. Variable output voltage to match amps. stunning DAC
I looked at your Scarlatti. You are taking the opposite path I have taken. All of my components are chosen to do the least to the music signal. Your source is like one reviewer says, "More choices than your local Applebee's." It would do us both a favor to hear each other's systems.
Audio Note loads deficient diodes into all of their DACs. Just by changing out those dull diodes with super fast recovery Shottkey diodes, the music comes alive like I have never heard on any other system. Silver does nothing.
I will have to give that a try indeed. As my health continues to fail, a more simple audio procedure will benefit me.
My Audio Note DAC has a USB interface. I have read that interface is not good.
I just got off the phone with a very knowledgable friend, an installer for Graz. He is still researching the move. If you can give me a head start, I would be most appreciative.
Funny how a transport makes such a distinct difference, but it is true. You, having a highly resolving speaker, need to make the changes that provide the most clear result. So do I.
The 47 lab Flatfish transport plus my unique AN DAC produces the most wonderful music. All frequencies benefited tremendously with the addition of the Flatfish. The bass foundation to music got a big shot in the arm. Singers pop out. Highs are fabulous all the way to out of hearing. I can play Loreena McKennit at high level without any of her falsetto sounding smeared or bright.
The most endearing aspect of this marvelous transport has been the increase in harmony and melodic flow. This is what is missing in digital playback. Records produce all music aspects naturally. So can digital.
As you know, I trust your testimony. It is your system. I find it hard to believe just moving the digital filter out of the mix can rival a dedicated NOS DAC. My Original Scintillas have all the air, warmth that is natural, plus the guts to do all genre of music with panache; all that with a super NOS DAC.
Your speaker cables are too long for me to produce an SC I wanted you to try.
Its rather premature to ask such a question anyway as the very big neck brace rightfully keeps my from looking down.
Ok, having told you what difference the diode makes in NOS DACs, I realized I didn't give you a link to the exact diode.
The Duetta was a fine Apogee. The FR and Scintilla are leagues ahead in all categories. I know this because I have owned several. Class D properly fed into the Scintilla is on heaven's wings.
I only say this because now you have horns. This is on even a higher level of sensitivity. Find an Audio Note DAC, and replace the diodes. You will thank me.
Hi Chad, I once had a neighbor who was cycling through quite a number of OTL amps, and tubes. Seeing you are doing the right thing in choosing OTL, I wish I had taken notes back then for you.
Talking about OTL honing, I have a tragic story to tell. I have another neighbor who is a serious student of all that is OTL. He is an Audio Note specialist. His preamp is one of 5 ever made. His amps are one of the highest in the AN line.
One day, my former dentist asked me if I would meet him there. I agreed, always liking to hear music. At the time the owner had his preamp out, and a very good loner was in it's place.
The owner drew our attention to two very big bottles on the borrowed preamp. He said those are his, and are, "un-attainables." He had taken them off his own preamp in service for safe keeping.
We were listening to very good music. Along with the music was a constant whine. The owner blamed the preamp, the one with his $800 tubes.
My dentist, being a hyper sort of guy, did one of the craziest things I have seen done since one of my visiting employees cranked the volume to full max. Without any warning, the dentist lurched forward, and cranked a bias knob to max...... POW!!!!
On another note, a poster above strongly suggested you switch your over/up sampler for a no sampler. In my experience, he is absolutely correct. As you know, one has to be very careful what you feed a class D amp. I learned long ago, NOS players and DACs sound much more like real music.
I have an Audio Note DAC. Audio Note makes it plainly clear what their goal is. They want the end result to be a lyrically pleasant music maker.
All Audio Note DACs have a digital board. Feeding that, they provide a digital supply board. On that board there are four diodes. These diodes choke aspects of the signal. One only needs to replace it with a modern super fast recovery diode, and watch the full majesty of the music to come forward. Everything benefits. Highs are extended, dynamic swings duly produced, and attack as good as it gets.
I hope you try that out. It doesn't take a real expensive DAC to bring out the magic.
I was excited to hear your comments on the Halcro. I immediately went to search out Halcro. The first thing I came up with was a review by Stereophile. What to my utter surprise did I find? The amp reviewed was the much, much less expensive Halcro 20, a class D amp.
I read it anyway. A negative comment the reviewer made about the depth rang true to lots of reviews about class D. They say the soundstage is shallow and doesn't separate a singer from his/her accompanying choir in the background.
My sound was that way too, until I fit my home made ribbon speaker cables to the task. Out popped the foreground from the background. All other aspects of the sound improved as well.
Anyway, I am very happy you love the sound of your Halcro. Obviously Bruce Candy knows his stuff.
It is impossible to know what you are listening to, Chad. I sure do wonder. I like how you are tinkering with room adjustments. I can't do that, and when the music is loud, I find it clearer on close field listening.
Yo Chadeffect, so what are you thinking about the horns now? What secrets have you coaxed from them? Can you listen to them hour after hour without fatigue? Are your amps good at low level? I would surmise the Bel Cantos are working at low level of excursion.
Hi Chad, I am glad you are having fun, and I am even more glad, I get to read about it. Please tell us more what a cascade class A amp is.
Henry Ho started out making sublime class A amps. I remember them as being what you describe. I prefer the lively sound of the H2O, and it's more detailed information.
Again, you are referencing your grazzled Duettas. The natural Scintillas are quite the different speaker. On my system, there is no frequency that draws your attention for bad or good. They are all inter-synced. The music is wonderfully natural right to the highest pitched tweety bird.
With that, I think I ought to bow out of this discussion. We don't have any idea what each other are listening to. We just have to respect each other's reports.
Your room could use some Bradbury and Bradbury traditional wallpaper. Your horns make the room look like the, "Lonely Hearts Club Band."
Do you know how many caps are in the Scintilla crossover? They are expensive too. Using Aure caps the cost would to 3k. Really, the sound is so real now, I just am not interested.
You know I had those speakers broken in for at least 400 hours as they do TV duty, as well as music. They sounded Ok with cable. They were quite lively. With my source, though, they wore army boots. They were fighting the flow of the music. My speakers wear dancer shoes. It really is in the ribbon. The structure and density of the new ones make them more emphatic. I don't want that. Graz did. My amps do that on the more neutral Apogee ribbons. That is, if the music calls for balls.
Changing all the caps, wiring, and resistors would not have made the difference. What I am hearing now with my original Scintillas is everything I could ask for. Yes, that is with the Spragues, and Monster wire. I will change both of those in time to Obligatto and ribbons. That will give my system an incremental change for the positive, like painting a house, as I have already laid down a musical mansion for that.
Hi Chad, warming up for a big audio party here. This is with my old speakers. The new ones were a bad marriage. I tell you what, though, those horns are a system builder's dream child. I wish I were there. What fun it would be.
Hi Chad, the Bel Canto is really too much of an amp for horns. I don't know where to point you to a better arrangement. Just a guess, but a sparkling clean tube amp, or Nelson Pass's First Watt might be worth looking into.
Yes, the room is everything when it comes to bass performance. In my symmetrical room, the bass is every bit natural, the same system, but in Rich Murry's open structure house (one of Graz's installers) the bass is way over done.
What is capable and woman friendly? Bose mini cubes behind a Ficus.
I think we are similar because of the boy inside. We love to play!
My wife never speaks negatively about my system building. She also says she can't hear the difference. That doesn't bother me, because she has been saying that all along from the start with the Target Stores music system.
I only mentioned the demons because you have a class D amp. To see if I am right, turn the amps around and connect a very thin ribbon SC between the amps and speaker. If it is a stereo (I forgot) then just use one channel to test my hypothesis.
Hi Chad, I don't know if this will be of any help, but here are two observations I have made over the evolution of my system.
Insulation on the ICs and SCs produce a distinct hiss even from the listener's position. The natural Scintilla, with it's soft light ribbons corrugated into a textbook sine wave, are every detail is audible, whether sourced from the music, or distortion gathered along the way of the to the speakers. Using nearly naked wires and ribbon have cleaned up all that hiss.
You are right about tubes. Even if tube amps can be designed to produce music without hiss, they still err on producing an overabundance of even order distortion. We are told that even order distortion is Ok, because listeners don't mind. I disagree. At least it bothers me. I can put my ear to my Apogee Scintillas and hear nothing but a microcosm of the music. In fact, without room interaction in the mix, the music I hear direct from the MRT is even more pure.
Hi Chad, no response yet over your new Divas. All I can say is, grazzled speakers are a devil to break in. I found playing them hard for several days, then giving them the same period of rest in between works wonders. I had all but given up last week when I gratefully added my old speakers into the mix. Half way through this week, I figured I needed to give the grazzled ribbons another big push. To my surprise, almost all the tweeter over activeness dissipated, and the bass has come to life too.
Hey Chadeffect, when are you going to give us the scoop on your new Divas? I heard grazzled Divas at Rich. He was using, at the time, some Perraux amps. The sound was underwhelming. I really don't know what they sound like in a good system.
Most folks do not have the requisite space for the mighty Avantarges. They are simply not convenient to say the least.
With the danger of provoking another shark attack here, I should say that neighbors are sure I have a grand piano in my house. I do have a very big robust upright, but it is not what fools them.
The Scintilla, under the rock hard control of my amps and preamp bring the gossamer light ribbons into startling focus. Sure, the Avantgarde Trio will trump what I have, but not in this room.
Chad, why have you not considered the Scintilla? your amp would easily handle it. Perhaps none have come up in your yard? You would be surprised what it's bass panel can do. And that cardioid MRT!!!
I loved hearing Cabasse as well. In a large room they can put up a seamless soundstage. I was tempted to go that way before I got Henry's amps on my Apogees.
Are those ribbon microphones at Abbey? You are a lucky guy.
Chad, your frequent approximation to the real music and your intimate knowledge of the recording industry raises your audio stock considerably.
I heard Henry's paired with a Supratek Cabernet Duoamps powering the Gallo Ref 3.1. His source was the AMR CD 77. This player is neat in that you can change the oversampling on the fly.
The owner listens with the setting on analog filter alone. I could not tell any difference between that and the 0 filter. The oversampling settings were not bad on his speakers, but definitely second rate.
Chadeffect and Mapman, I will be open minded to the DCS line. They do not use a DAC chip. Since they take a physically unique approach dedicated to preserving the live event, I can't count them out.
I was doing murals when I had to choose a cyber name. Muralman seemed appropriate at the time. I was prompted someone already had that, so I just added a 1.
"smooth," now that adjective makes me wince. If you habit live performances, smooth is a rare commodity. The adjectives, exciting, dynamic, and kaleidoscopic come to mind for me more often.
Smooth is a fine audio destination. I just want what's real. When the signal is just let be after decoding the more of it gets through as performed.
Yes, I am aware of DCS. Remember, it was developed to do just what we don't want, tag the signal. In the military, you want to be able to relate intelligence back to the source. Whether that subjectively changes the image is of less importance to their priorities.
On the tweaky side, I know a guy who has TACT gear. The little fabrics he placed into his amps did make quite the positive difference. There was a good reason for this. They formed radiation barriers.
You and I are working with amps that are still being improved. I am sure B&O will continue their modules. Their improvement of the 500A module was a happy surprise.
No one is saying they have it perfect. One thing is for sure, I have not heard any conventional amp that isn't worse off getting it right.
Tubes have nothing to do with the better sound IMO. My first NOS DAC had one tiny tube. The bigger one I am now trying has four much bigger tubes. The problem with tubes, as you know, they all have their signature timbre.
The reason the tremendous increase in freedom of the music venue is so apparent is the nature of a DAC with no digital filter.
I see it this way. The signal is an infinitely variable trail of pulses, existing somewhere between a particle and a wave. Oh, that is the definition of radiation.
Quantum physics makes a big deal one cannot so much as observe the very small without changing it.
What the electrical engineers are doing, is taking the very small and extricating a portion of it to place it somewhere else.
Now, according to quantum theory, that will distort the signal. If you could be here, I promise I could demonstrate that to your satisfaction.
Mapman, I'd like to answer that, because of my speaker's are the worst of the lot as power consumers. my Apogee speakers are atrocious pigs. They are 1 ohm, and 76 Db sensitivity. People have been using energy wasting class A Krells and the like. The speakers got a bad reputation about having a bloated bass, and lack of presence. These are the same attributes alloted poorly powered speakers. Now, with the class D amps I use, this pig of an Apogee has a tight bass, and powerful presence.
It has been reported that power conditioners devour current. Since my speakers are very hungry for current, I have not used them. Maybe newer designs don't.
As can be read on other discussions, I have found that class D amps match perfectly with non-oversampling DACs. These have no digital filters. Whereas with solid state amps NOS DACs can sound rounded off, an sodden, that is the fault of the amps. Tube amps benefit from NOS DACs. I have heard great SET systems that utilize NOS DACs. Class D amps, with equally revealing preamps, will exhibit much more detail, trail off of notes, and depth when the source is NOS.
Have you tried NOS DACs in conjunction with your Evo?
Gallant Diva, I know you are not liable to even read my reply. I do have to correct your assumption, though. I was not talking Scintilla vs. Full Range. I was talking MY Scintilla and a specific Full Range system.
The fact of the matter here, is this thread is not about comparative speakers. It is about system application. I am excited for Chad's enthusiasm. We are believers in our class D systems. We are sort of a sub fraternity.
Gallant Diva, I am hoping to take my system to the place we mentioned. I was invited to do so a couple months ago, when I had unfortunately just sold my precious digital source. When I get my new finer NOS source, I hope to still make the trip. I am not at all timid to put a Scintilla against that Full Range. I have heard both. You haven't.
All I wanted to say here about my system, is that careful component matching is the trick to bring out the best in class D. Chad agrees with me. It was a quiet conversation not meant to anger outsiders. Nor are we taking our mantra to your site, or Florian's.
It is not our intention to compare Apogees. The Grand is no doubt a magnificent sounding speaker. It's beauty is astounding. I have heard Slant 7 speakers that enthralled me in the small quarters I heard it. MiniGrand speakers have found a way into my heart on some material. I loved the sumptuous original Duetta Sig. I have heard grazzled Duettas too, and they are very different. Certainly room sizes limit various Apogee's usefulness.
Like I wrote earlier, Grands have subs, and I know folks that have to have them. I have no problem with that. I don't like the combination. I see you don't use subs either. Still, when my neighbor strikes up tyco drummers on his SGs and RELs, it shivers me to my bones.
I have not heard your system, and I have no opinion. I know someone who has and they loved it. I bet I would too. Does that mean I have fooled myself into thinking my system has a direct aim on reality? Although I have not heard your FRs, I have heard a lifetime of live music. That is what I am using as a guide.
At no time did we disparage the Grand. We never mentioned other speakers, nor did we compare our two. No one needled Florian into his peacock rattling. I wasn't even thinking of him. It's kind of funny how some folks will read a few posts and come to some conclusion quite foreign to the folks having the discussion in the first place.
The real fight is over class D and conventional amps. Like I said, I am open to competition between the two. It is in the execution that makes the difference. And that is why Chad and I were having a peaceful conversation. You and Carl are fueling a fire that should have been a non-starter.
Carl, no one here was arguing any Apogee vs. the Grand, except Florian. This is Chad's system site. We are just saying, it is not good manners to criticize a system you haven't heard. Just because someone has owned one Apogee or another, doesn't mean they know what they sound like, other than with the system they heard it with anyway.
My own system has changed dramatically with the adjustments I made over the last two years. I still have the same amps. Chad is agreeing with me. Through trial and error, Chad says he has harnessed a marvelous sound from his class D amps. He should know. He is there.
Florian now??? Don't understand it is very bad manners to enter a virtual system to throw eggs? That is why they call it a, "Virtual System." page. It is not one you can listen to. Complaining about the sound of a system you can't hear is, to be nice about it, ridiculous
I have heard Full Range speakers complete with special crossovers and powered by very fine hybrid amp. It is my opinion it is no contest with what I am hearing here. I can say that, because I have heard both. You have heard neither. There are plenty of people who consider the Scintilla to be the most true sounding speakers bar none, including your buddy, Graz. The Duetta is a very very fine speaker capable of producing fabulous sound. I loved mine.
All the Grand speakers are subwoofer augmented. I would never go there. You love it, and that is just great. I have a neighbor that loves house shaking bass. He uses Studio Grands plus REL subs. More power to him. He loves it and that is good enough for me too.
Your last paragraph says it all. The worst of it are questionably respectable audio forum contributors blanketing all class D amps as crap. I know for a fact one of the most vociferous preachers (one you know of) uses a midfy source in judging all class D amps. That is a prescription for failure, and I can't say it isn't purposeful.
The sound I have has changed dramatically over the last four years. Funny thing is my class D amps have never left. All the midfy crap had to go one at a time when I could afford it. With every improvement, a very noticeable layer of distortion was lifted. Every system detail is paramount. My almost naked ribbon SCs popped the cherry.
Hi Chad, after rereading some earlier posts, they leave a bit of mystery. When did you switch to the Bel Canto? What are the plusses and minuses switching from conventional amps?
Have you been surprised by the magnitude of your component changes with the Bel? Like you found with your Source change, ICE improves dramatically, far more than would be noticed in conjunction with conventional amps. I think what this new amp technology does, is reveal ever more of upstream anomalies. The better the source, the more invisible the system becomes to the music. That has been my experience.
They are only the best Apogee around, not counting the Grand. I can say that with confidence now after hearing both a better than new Diva, and likewise Full Range.
I have an interested party coming tomorrow. These speakers are real hard to let go. Good thing I have another pair.
I am attempting to get a bigger box AN DAC. When I do, my amp and preamp builder will tear out what innards he deems inferior, and send back a DAC that has all the open, deep and wide delivery of the AN, but also all the attack, zing, and POW!! AN is not known for.
I bought a venerable PSA Lambda transport, and he did the same thing to it. It has been favorably compared to some big ticket transports.
If I can, I go cheap. The Scintillas I have being redone by the soon famous Rich Murray will be for sale. I will insist local pick up so the buyer can hear them. If I make the profit, I think probable, I can take my speakers to Rich.
You have to have a huge room in order to utilize the big horns. I have heard such a set up, and I have to say I couldn't live with that too long.
I prefer my Scintilla's circumspect sound. It is accurate, does not overplay, and can be listened to all day without fatigue, while raising the hairs on the back of my neck regularly.
I have not heard the Zanden. Too many tubes again.............. :)
Our system are world apart. I would love to hear yours. Like all systems I am eager to hear, they are thousands of miles apart.
My amp and preamp require a simple circuit digital. The fewer chips, and tubes, the better. Instead of the power tubes AN uses, I favor a good diode. Tubes introduce too many variables IMO.
Besides that, AN gear is too polite. I want my rim shots and crash cymbals to whack loud. I want bugles that bite. I think you know what I mean.
Women singers must sound human, and not seraphim. I don't want body added. It is a voice, not voluptuous hips that was recorded.
Cellos should sound rich. Some folks gauge their system with how rich. That is a never ending quest. Every caramel coloring tube will assist that quest. Does that make it more real? Of course not.
Bass is a necessity to full actualization of believability. Sometimes it exists as only excited sympathetic ringing, like a guitar belly.
I am not looking for a system sound. I am trying for proper sound suiting the player or singer.
Chad, I am sure you would agree class D demands out of the box thinking in utilizing it's strengths. Your digital end is light years more sophisticated than my highly tweaked NOS DAC and Lambda.
I don't care for oversampling in the slightest. Leaving out all filtering, the music seems freer, more alive.
On theory, the upsampling of your DCS should give performances over that of the more common oversampling players. I would like to have your opinion of their differences.
Chadeffect. You are finding there are some very upset luddites out there. They just have to believe their big, expensive toys are worth the penny.
Do you have time to try my easy DIY speaker cable design? It's sound reward is revelatory.
Basically, they are short ultra thin 12 gauge ribbons, perfect for monos. They are sourced from inductors. Audacious, I know, but I insulted cable manufacturers more my making my return ribbons out of aluminum foil. Loosely wrapped in Saran Wrap for insulation and ended in Home Grown spades.
The clarity, depth, width, dynamics, and extension are simply amazing.
Try them. I promise you, you will thank me. They will also be great conversational objects.
Hi Chadeffect, I am on your side. There was a recent review between a sister amp to the ones I use alongside the Monarchy 250 SE. The only area that the reviewer could find praise for the Monarchy was one of coloration. The Monarchy's effusive warmth made voices sound, "Haunting." Whereas the class D amp gives, "Open, clean and free of artifacts with excellent detail and separation."
The way I read this, a listener has to decide whether they want to hear make believe or reality.
I bet your system does sound spectacular. I like the way you integrated subs. Who did the Duettas? They look like Richard Murray's work. I will be picking up some Scintillas from Rich in the near future.
