honestly I don't know. I've not spoken to or had contact with Miguel for 6 months and never posted about it anywhere.

I've never heard any Tripoint product but certainly respect it and am curious about what it does like many others.

you apparently know more about it than I do....am I getting a Tripoint Troy?

mikelavigne July 30, 2015 03:35

Miguel mentioned it....are you not?

agear July 30, 2015 03:10

Agear,

congrats on the Troy.

what makes you think I'm getting one or intended to do that?

mikelavigne July 30, 2015 02:06

Mike, are you still getting a Tripoint Troy? I am going to get one soon....:)

agear July 29, 2015 18:24

update; another step forward.

read this post for context for what I'm describing below.

there are 4 different dials to adjust on each of the 4 separate bass adjustment panels (2 per side) on the bass towers. the OP describes what happened when I adjusted 2 of them for each section; the 'bass level' and the 'bass quality'. I set those to what the designer called 'flat' positions which were quite different (about 40-50% around the adjustment scale) than where they had been in the 'compensated' positions.

we had left the other 2 adjustments (bass filter and bass extension) in the 'compensated' position in case we found that the changes I made did not work, so we did not need to find those positions again.

yesterday I had left a message for the speaker designer asking him if I could also move the other 2 adjustments to the spots he had designated as 'flat' since we did know that we had a positive result from moving the other 2. early last night I had not yet heard back from him and decided 'what the heck' I want to know what that will do, so I did make those adjustments. in this case; both the 'bass filter', which is a variable crossover, and 'bass extension' the 'compensated' positions were much closer to the 'flat' positions. in one of the 4 was already in the 'flat' position.

WHOA! more meat on the bones, more heft in the bass, but it was the fire and sparkle of the mid range that took a significant improvement. vocals were quite a bit better. I had thought I was all the way there on perfect balance of voice and string tone but I was wrong. richer, more harmonic shading, more tube like breath of life.

every reference I have was improved in subtle ways. delicate little things in the soundstage are all more real and filled out and complete. magical.

these were tiny adjustments on 2 innocent dials on the back of some active bass towers that crossover at around 35hz with the main towers. how can this do that? don't know, but they did.

mikelavigne July 18, 2015 14:29

Agear,

thanks.

and yes, I did notice a few months back that Rives is no longer a company.

mikelavigne July 18, 2015 13:44

Congrats Mike. Audio is a humbling hobby indeed.

Did u know Rives went out of business fairly recently?

agear July 18, 2015 02:54

Dennis, many thanks for your comments.

mikelavigne July 18, 2015 02:04

Larry, thanks for the kind comments.

mikelavigne July 18, 2015 01:59

awesome thread! love the experiene. cannot thank you enough for letting us in your room with those awesome photos.

cerrot July 17, 2015 12:53

Great update with the enlarged pictures.
Extremely nice.
Thanks!

lak July 17, 2015 11:53

suck out fixed. i think.

my room designer designed a whole ceiling bass trap into my room. it was 15" deep and covered the whole 21' x 29' ceiling. except for -6- inset 6' x 8' chambers. these chambers had fabric covered vertical openings with Corning 709 fiberglass in the openings. you can see the chambers in the ceiling of my room pictures. the idea was that this bass trap would control the bass; but clearly in retrospect it was a huge mistake. now 11 years later that mistake has been rectified.....finally.

4 years ago I did have a contractor remove the fabric panels from 4 of the 6 chambers and glue and screw 3/4" finished maple plywood over these openings; which did improve the bass response. I thought that fixed my issue. I was wrong.

last May, 14 months ago, my speaker designer was here for 2 days to do the final tweaking to my Evolution Acoustics MM7's. when he measured the room he found a fairly wide -12db suck out at 30hz, one that the room dimensions did not logically predict. he strongly suspected that the remaining openings in those center chambers were the likely cause. since the MM7's are so powerful and adjustable, he was able to minimize the effect of the suck out with adjustments, but at the cost of ultimate performance. he did strongly suggest I get those openings covered. he even gave me two sets of settings sheets for the 4 sets of adjustments (2 sets on each bass tower).......one for the 'compensated' adjustments he made, and another for 'flat' adjustments anticipating my getting those openings sealed up.

since last May I have given a good amount of effort into finding a contractor to do that work, but was not successful.

then this spring I went thru the experience with the fabric treatments that really took things up a few notches. I had quite a few people thru the room and the feedback was very positive. I knew that somehow I needed to do this final thing and hopefully that would allow the bass performance that was already amazing to go to the optimal level. I was fully motivated to get this done with my excitement from the big step forward from the fabric treatments.

I realized if I wanted to get this done i had to do this myself.

finally I was able to convince my son (I bribed him by giving him one of my bicycles) to help me do this nasty job. I spent last week buying -3- 4' x 8' sheets of finished 3/4" maple plywood, another 8 foot step ladder (we would be working at 10'-11'), a good quality circular saw, saw horses, and all the other bits and pieces we would need. my son had a 208 mile one-day STP (Seattle to Portland) bike ride on Saturday and did not get home till late, so Sunday morning a spent 2 hours clearing out the room.....everything to the sides....racks moved, tape decks moved. big job. tarp laid. ladders set up. neither of us are carpenters; could we rip the panels without chipping? could we even cut a straight line?

would it actually make a positive difference?

we did not know exactly how we would remove the fabric panels or how they were attached. would we be able to get them out without removing the trim pieces? we did not posses the skills to properly replace the trim.

he showed up around 10:30am and we first removed the 8 deflector panels with in the chambers and then got to work pulling off the fabric panels, 4 per chamber, 8 total. we were able to get them out with considerable caution and effort without disturbing the trim. then we measured and started ripping the sheets and cutting to size. I had a work commitment mid afternoon for 2 hours, and returned. finally about 9 that night we screwed and glued the final plywood sheet. then he left and I spent 2 hours reassembling the room. I'd had a listening visitor from California the previous day and then the previous night I'd had a work dinner till midnight. I'm not a young guy. I was gassed. I tried to listen. was it boomy sounding? if that 30hz -12db suck out was solved to a significant degree that old set-up would cause the lower bass to be boomy. I thought it was boomy but fell asleep right away. the next morning before work I was not yet recovered enough to listen.

finally after work that night I had recovered enough to listen and went thru my digital listening references and the lower bass was clearly boomy, if not quite a bit more energetic sounding. I had spoken to my speaker designer earlier and he said I should shut off the amps in the bass towers and see if it sounded clean. if it did that indicated that the closing of the openings had not likely caused other issues. I did that, went thru my references again, no problem, sounded very clean. so then I turned the bass towers back on and adjusted both the 'bass level' and the 'bass quality' (Q) halfway to the 'flat' positions and listened to the references again. better, less boomy. much more energy. some magical things happening. then I went 3/4 to the flat positions and again listened. now it was a big WOW! everything was now at a whole new reference level. all up and down the frequency range. a whole new level of coherence and naturalness. vocals were superb sounding. much more holographic. bass impact a couple orders of magnitude better. so I just listened late until early morning Tuesday and again after not much sleep in the morning. I was stoked.

that night I first listened as it was; then found a good cut and moved the 'bass quality' the last little bit to the flat position. clearly better. then I moved the 'bass level' the last little bit to the flat position and it was super clean and right. it sounds perfect to me now; I've been listening for 2 days now to it and I'm just beside myself. as good as it had been; it's not only much better but much different than even Saturday night. what is so crazy to my mind is how much different vocals and the mid range is simply by eliminating a 30hz suck out. it was very interesting hearing how much detail had been covered by those adjustments which were pegged to cover the suck out when taken to flat all that detail jumped out.

the MM7's are now fully unleashed and are something to behold!

how close to absolutely flat is it? don't know. I hope it can get better from here.....but maybe not. is the suck out all the way gone? how flat is my room? don't know yet. and once I measure it I may or may not post it. we all know how much I love graphs.

I suppose I have a persecution complex posting about discovering my personal mistakes. I know from time to time that comes back to haunt me when ner-do-wells want to give me some crap. but so what. I feel that these sort of experiences contribute to the collective knowledge. and one has to be open to learning and going farther down the road.

my goal 11 years ago with my efforts was to get the room and system out of the way of the music; I think I've essentially done that finally.

oh and btw, this job cost me about $250 in materials and I did acquire approx. $450 worth of tools and a ladder. I was going to give the bike to my son anyway but he did not know that. so between the fabric and this job about $500-$600 and the effect is off the charts.

mikelavigne July 17, 2015 06:25

thanks Mark.

I do think that for systems which are spacious enough where they don't need aggressive diffusion in first reflection spots and don't want tonal changes from excess absorption, fabric wall coverings do a great job of knocking down brightness and smear and are easy and cheap to do. and they can look as good as you want and be totally WAF compliant. and it's cheap cheap to try it.

mikelavigne July 17, 2015 04:18

Thanks Mike....what an epic journey! Kudos for coming up with such a common sense and reasonbly priced approach to the whole problem. I'm sure you've got everybody thinking about fabric treatments now !

zephyr24069 July 15, 2015 02:48

hi Mark,

glad you like the pictures, thanks.

read this post from 4-27-15 for background on the fabric panels.

as far as the type of fabric i used three different types of fabric which all seemed to work. they were all polyester medium weight with a fair amount of surface texture. the biggest issue is how easy it is to cut and whether it unravels. i found some neutral colored velveteen which worked like a charm since it cut easy and layed flat and did not unravel. you can go to a fabric store and for pennies buy some remnants and pin it up on your wall and listen. if it sounds better then you can decide how good you want it to look.

mikelavigne July 13, 2015 22:58

hi Tom,

sorry for the delay in my response...busy weekend.

thank you for the kind words.

I found your system from a search on the Durand Talea II. Impressed you went to two Talos'. I just bought the Talea and await the arm. Replacing a solid Triplanar.

prior and during my ownership of the original Talea and Talea II i did own the Triplaner VII along with 3 different Reed arms and a Schroeder Ref SQ (and a Rockport Sirius III). to my ears the Durand tone arms had a different higher level of microdynamic energy and tonal complexity along with a lower noise floor. the music was more alive. and all of those other arms were fine tone arms.

I notice your fabric treatment is over only small portions of the walls. How thick is it? How far do you offset it from the wall? I have sheer curtains on my windows behind my speakers.

I had some help putting diffusion panels behind my listening area which completely messed up my tonal balance -shrill top end.

acoustical answers are never simple since music is so complex and rooms are so different. trying to isolate cause and effect in any room can take years of investigation. i have been in my room for 11 years and i am still learning about it.

before i answer your question it might help to read this post from 4-27-15 which will give you some background on these fabric panels.

the panels are pinned to the wall with thumb tacks and push pins. so they sit against the wall. intentionally i did not want them out from the wall. the reason is that the further out from the wall they are the more they will change the tonality of the sound. my purpose was to knock down the high frequency reflections in first reflection areas, but not to deaden or warm up the sound. if your intention is broader frequency absorption, then you would have more space behind the fabric, or maybe use heavier fabric or multilayered fabric....like heavy drapery. that approach can muffle the sound. my room is designed around lots of energy and diffusion, not absorption. but it was too live and the ultra reflectivity masked lots of detail and shifted tonality to the higher frequencies.

as far as sheer curtails over your windows, i have found that a pleated window shade seems to work much better to neutralize the window effect. it has enough mass to minimize the glare from the window, but is not dead sounding.

i hope that helps.

Since you have a beautiful acoustic room and a topflight 1/2 inch reel to reel, have you considered buying or borrowing a set of studio mics and having a small string quartet etc record 2 channel direct to your R2R?

i have thought about doing some recording in my room but so far it has not worked out. i have a friend with a Gypsy Jazz Guitar Quintet which i'd love to record. maybe someday.

mikelavigne July 13, 2015 22:46

hi Bob,

sorry for the delay in my response. I had out-of-town listeners visit on Saturday afternoon, Saturday night and Sunday afternoon I had company events, and all day Sunday ( before and after my company event) I had a listening room project. it was a fun but exhausting weekend.

I appreciate your kind words. I do enjoy my system every time I listen, and consider myself lucky. you would be welcome to be the fly on the wall anytime you are in the neighborhood.

i took a look at your system and it also is a great place to listen. nice job!

enjoy.

mikelavigne July 13, 2015 21:55

Mike: Thanks for posting the full-size pics; they definitely convey just how beautiful and well-planned the room and the system are. Very much appreciated!

What led to the application of the fabric treatments? What type of fabric is it and how did you determine where to apply it?

As always,...hope all is well and you are enjoying this dream system!

zephyr24069 July 12, 2015 03:13

Hi Mike

Impressive system would be a major understatement for your labor of love

I found your system from a search on the Durand Talea II. Impressed you went to two Talos'. I just bought the Talea and await the arm. Replacing a solid Triplanar.

I notice your fabric treatment is over only small portions of the walls. How thick is it? How far do you offset it from the wall? I have sheer curtains on my windows behind my speakers.

I had some help putting diffusion panels behind my listening area which completely messed up my tonal balance - shrill top end.

Since you have a beautiful acoustic room and a topflight 1/2 inch reel to reel, have you considered buying or borrowing a set of studio mics and having a small string quartet etc record 2 channel direct to your R2R?

audiotomb July 11, 2015 22:29

Mike;
Wow....wow...most incredible and beautiful room. It shows a lot of thought,care and passion. A perfect blend of outstanding sound in a fabulous listening environment. If only I could copy, or be a fly on the wall when you turn it all on...I'm sure it brings you a lot of pleasure and peace.
Congrats!

mribob July 11, 2015 18:07

fabric treatment pictures;

front fabric treatment

left side fabric treatment

right side fabric treatments

left front view

mikelavigne July 11, 2015 16:35

larger views of the pictures;

front

look back

458's

sources

mikelavigne July 11, 2015 16:23

System edited: more pictures.

mikelavigne July 11, 2015 15:59

System edited: updated some pictures to show current including fabric room treatments on ceiling, sides and front between the speakers.

mikelavigne July 11, 2015 15:20

Mike,
It's been some years ago, but I did have the pleasure to see/hear your system. I went with a bunch from Portland. I see that your system has changed and it would be a great experience to do it again sometime.

as I recall your visit was in 2007.....much has changed....in fact nothing is as it was then. I was at a different place on the same path I'm on now. I'd love for you to visit again and tell me what you think now.

As to the sound diffusors you built recently (with excellent results), might you have photos, or detailed instructions to share?
I've often felt the need to explore this inexpensive tweak.

I will try to post some photos for the fabric panels I have recently installed. this post from a month ago has some links to another forum with comments from recent visitors and pictures that do show most of the fabric panels.

thank you for the kind comments and I hope we can get together again.

best regards,

mikelavigne May 19, 2015 05:00