Sam, they are even more beautiful in person.

i have had them 14 feet, 6 inches apart while they were breaking in. the reason was a recommendation from Kevin Malmgren.....who designed the VR9SE, VR7SE, as well as the final design work on the MM3's. i enjoyed that position for the VR7SE's so i put the MM3's there right off. in my room anywhere has room to breathe.....with the 11 foot ceiling.

i did not want to move the speaker around during breakin.....but now they have about 500 hours on them so today i did move them.

i had a few friends over for a listen.....after a few hours we did move them in from 14' 6" to 12' 6".....which also meant i moved my listening seat in 12" too.

initial impression were of a more visceral, involving, micro-dynamically alive and intimate presentation.....which i prefer. the soundstage is a bit shorter but only a bit.....which is still BIG! depth is a bit better and there is a bit more of a wrap-around sense. as this position is only 3 or 4 hours old i am still discovering the differences. the bass seems pretty flat so far.

i now expect to start positioning experiments in earnest.....but i think it will end up in the 12 foot to 13 foot range. i need to break out the RTA now.

regarding the VR7SE; the '7' is not really the right speaker for this room.....it does not move enough 'air' for my 29' x 21' x 11' room with all the bass trapping. the '7' is a ported passive speaker.....my room works better with a sealed box active subwoofer speaker that can easily presurize the room and move lots of air.....such as the VR9, VR11 or MM3.

also the '7' uses a different mid range and tweeter than the MM3 and has a diiferent sound. i throughly enjoyed the VR7 and think it makes great music.

mikelavigne January 28, 2007 23:50

hi mike
the mighty mm3 looks really beautiful in your room...was the move to keep the speakers well apart, toed in and quite close to the side walls to maximise the sound stage or a must for the speaker to breathe ( manu`s instructions... will it work in 15`/30` room narrow long room ). are they very superior to the demo pair of Vr 7se you had earlier....your views.
regards
sam

asks40 January 28, 2007 15:34

Jacob, my new MM3 speakers do not allow bi-amping like the VR9's. this was a big concern of mine....considering the size of my room.

it turns out that one stereo darTZeel on the MM3 is more than capable of reaching high SPL's without strain in my room. it helps that the MM3's have a digital amp which powers the woofer. i don't exactly know where it crosses over to the mid-range but it is high enough that the dart can easily handle it. combine that with having 2 mid-range drivers which presents an easy load to the dart in the mid-range and it all works.

mikelavigne January 28, 2007 14:06

Mike beuatiful speakers,you change or is a experience, now you have only a stereo apmlifier?

shade_of_pale January 28, 2007 12:19

Looks great Mike! Congratulations. It's only going to get better. I wish I lived closer to get a listen to the 3s in your room.

fsarc January 28, 2007 11:14

Jacob, yes....i prefer my gear to the side of the room and designed it that way. i also installed 2" conduit for future multichannel incld subwoofer with a 'box' in the floor next to my gear on the side.......as well as conduit to a box near my listening chair with a dedicated outlet and run of the ST Optical cable that my digital (EMM Labs) uses. in the past i have placed the digital transport right next to my listening chair.

i like that there is nothing but my amp(s) between the speakers both sonically and aesthetically. i can more easily relax into the music without that distration.

mikelavigne January 28, 2007 09:36

Thanks for your attention and explanation, it´s very honest and elucidative.

Sorry if don´t understand my "materials configuration prefered", I mean that I prefer this kind of materials arrengement, all the equipment at one side, and in front only the speakers and powers, I think is the best solution, the stage is for the musiciens, the music, not for the equipment, all the equipment in front I don´t like, I prefer your configurationin the meddle could make a distraccion for the senses. I think that we have better sound too, with this configuration. Is your opinion too?

shade_of_pale January 27, 2007 15:17

Marty, thanks. i will call you as the time gets closer and see if it works out to visit.

best regards,

mikelavigne January 27, 2007 15:17

mdoukas, you would be most welcome to visit should you ever find yourself in the Northwest.

your question is very reasonable.....you are not missing anything.....i, OTOH, am missing the VR-11's.

no; i don't anticipate that i would have the MM3's and VR-11's together. i will, however, compare the two should the 11's ever arrive (they must first be built which has not yet commenced). i did have the VR7SE's and the MM3's in my room at the same time.

the VR7SE's are in their shipping crates in the garage.

mikelavigne January 27, 2007 15:15

tobi, i would be interested in learning more about the cables that you describe...particularly if you have experience with Transparent Opus. maybe you could provide a link that i could follow.

thanks.

mikelavigne January 27, 2007 15:08

Triumph 900, thanks. yes, every system needs the right context.

you have a very sweet looking system yourself.....congrats.

mikelavigne January 27, 2007 15:05

hi Jacob,

thanks for the kind words.

cable elevators make very little difference. the theory of them is issues of resonance and static. from a total system viewpoint; how cables lay is a marginal thing. to me anything that carries an audio signal benefits from not being under stress. the elevators allow the speaker cables to go underneath the interconnects as well as the power cables to the amps for the subwoofers. i personally think they look better than just laying on the floor. i first started using them in my old room where it was all carpet.....and i was convinvced at the time i could hear a difference due to getting the cables above the static buildup from the nylon carpet....it seemed to have slightly less background noise. with the wood floor in my new room i doubt that i could hear a difference...although i expect that there is a difference. they are very cheap (8 for $88 7 years ago).

to me tweaks can be accumulative.....one may not be evidant......but if you do a number of small things it can result in a more natural organic involving sound. i try to keep contacts clean; have cables cross at right angles and not touch; use cable elevators......

i don't understand "my materials configuration preferred".....if it means you prefer your system....i don't blame you.....it is a very nice set-up and classy looking too. i have owned Levinson, Zoethecus and Revel.....and own a Dynavector cartridge myself now.

the interconnect from my preamp to power amp is 8 meters long. it is a 50 ohm BNC cable......and is propriatary for the darTZeel pre and amp. i previously used a 7 meter XLR Valhalla....i prefer my sources in the side of the room to optimize speaker performance and therefore need a long interconnect. if i mis-understood your question i apologize.

mikelavigne January 27, 2007 14:48

Spectacular system, my materials configuration prefered, What do you think the importance of the cable elevators?
How long is your IConnect, Pre-powers? I need something like this.

shade_of_pale January 27, 2007 12:48

At last somebody who makes the right investment in the most important of all elements (the listening room) and THEN builds his own setup around that starting point.

Everything is impressive not just for the quality of the single elements but for the sinergy between them and the environment where they are placed but, most of all, the attention to detail: quality of the whole is made by paying attention to the single elements of it.

triumph_900 January 21, 2007 09:24

hello,

i m just surfing through the net and im seeing your hifi system. it looks that you take great care of it.

so im also own the vr 9 se and after a long journey ( siltech, kimber,syn.research, shun.,nord.,i also came to the opus but now i got a new cable from a company who makes developments for those companys.
they have a technologie which produces no more phase delays beetwween speaker and amp.
the result is unbelieable. and now thats the reson i write you i had also a seperate power cord from the main power station of my house going from one wall outlet to the next.
they gave me a box where all my cords go in.it has a gel in it and thr result was dramatic.
i advice you to put yor power cords alltogether.

hope you can understand my bad writing.

tobi

[email protected] January 21, 2007 08:08

Mike,
Cool. If you find yourself in Dallas in April and I am in town, by all means I would very much welcome your visit.
Marty
817-742-1242

ugamotz January 15, 2007 22:51

Hi,
Thank you very much for your answer!

I could not find a lot of info about VR-5SE but the things I read were very positive. I think Positive Feedback and 6moons have VR-5 and will make an review soon! Also the Vr-5SE are at CES so I think I will wait a couple of weeks before my final decision...

I will get back to you later with the full report! ;)

Thanks
Best regards
Mike

asradict January 10, 2007 05:32

Marty,

i absolutely remember your visit; it was a key event in figuring out my VR9's. you got my thinking about how 'flat' bass was not necessarily 'musical'. after you left i adjusted the crossover and found it to be the key to getting the system to sound sweet and balanced. your effect on my understanding was profound and that thinking still is quite prominent to set-up.

the only thing that has changed since you were here is the speakers and i think you were here prior to ungrading my EMM Labs digital to the 'SE' version. other than that it is the same.

i still have the darTZeel, the Valhalla, the darTZeel BNC interconnect, and the Opus speaker cables.

i hope you return again when you are back in town.

btw, i may be in big 'D' in April......

mikelavigne January 09, 2007 10:04

Seethesound,

my audio path has taken a few turns here and there as i evolved. i started out without much listening experience and would read both gear and music reviews and then purchase. at a certain point i developed my own musical compass and at that point my direction changed considerably; i looked for gear that had less of their own sound (eventually a room without it's own sound too) and for the last 6 years that has been my direction. there are many laudable approaches to music reproduction......mine is 'full frequency, neutrality, and a focus on the musical event'.....and not the 'sound' per se. i don't want 'colored' gear. i would rather hear a few warts now and then than have that 'golden glow' that some prefer. i want all the energy and tension of music to be fully exposed but do avoid any gear that will offer more information at the expense of naturalness.

if the above description fits your tastes you are certainly welcome to join me in my choices. in the past i was lucky enough to stumble on some excellent synegistic gear combinations that others then tried and liked. i found a bunch of new friends and we all had a good time.

i too consider myself a learning audiophile/music lover and am always on the quest to get closer to the music.

mikelavigne January 09, 2007 09:56

hi Asradict,

i apologize for not reponding to your e-mail as of yet.

i have not heard the VR5SE; but the VR9SE uses the same drivers and crossover. from speaking to the designer of both speakers and from what i have read about the VR5SE i would strongly recommend the VR5SE (make sure it is the 'SE' and not just a VR5 which is totally different) as a preferrable speaker to my ears than the others you list.

i do like the WP7 (i have not heard the WP8) but in my opinion the Von Schwiekert VR5SE should be more like music.....more coherent, better micro-dynamics, and less 'hifi'.

the ASR Emitter II Exclusive is a wonderful amplifier and the VR5SE will be a great match.

good luck.....and i would enjoy hearing about what you decide and how it sounds.

mikelavigne January 09, 2007 09:39

Mike, you may recall I'm a friend Steve Williams who of you were kind enough to invite over for a listen quite a while ago. I guess I was surprised to now see the system I heard at your place as one tht is "out to pasture". I particularly liked the DartZeel phonostage/preamp and the top end you were able to reproduce on some wonderful LPs. So wuz up? What preamp and interconnects are you running these days?
Marty

ugamotz January 09, 2007 04:36

Mike,
Let's see some pics of the mm3's when you get a chance!

streetdaddy January 08, 2007 17:12

hi Guys,

thanks for all the kind words and support.

i apoligize for both my absense and lack of response lately. to be perfectly honest for the last 6 to 9 months i have been otherwise focused.....and my attention to both the various forums as well as my audio e-mailing has been poor.

my business activity has been more demanding, i have spent more time with the wife, i have been trveling a good deal, my daughter got married, and i just lost a bit of focus. in the last 30 days it has just been crazy; first we were without power and internet service for 8 days before Christmas; then i had family visiting for the Holidays, and now finally i have got myself back into the audio focus.

2 weeks ago the Evolution Acoustics MM3's arrived (initially just the bottom 2 parts and a week later the top subs) and i have been breaking them in.

previous posts in this thread have described my reasons for initially changing from the VR9's (none of which had anything to do with any lack of satisfaction with the VR9's). it is as simple as the VR11's always being in the back of my mind as the 'ultimate' speaker and a friend offering to buy my VR9's. after investigating what it would cost to then buy the VR11's i jumped right in. Von Schweikert even agreed to loan me the VR7SE's while i waited. delivery was promised for late September or October at the latest. this was mid-July.

i paid my money, the VR7's were shipped to me and i shipped out my VR9's to my friend. the VR7's were very good but frankly i lost a bit of my audio enthusiasm about then. i was busy in other directions, i knew something more was coming, and so refocused on other things.

then in August i was down in San Deigo for business and visited Kevin Malmgren (who designed the VR11's, VR9's, the VR7's and also just happened to be doing the final voicing on the MM3's). frankly; even though i had heard the MM3 during the long development at jtinn's over the past few years i was unprepared for both the sonic performance and the production quality i saw and heard. i was smitten and immediately ordered a pair (in addition to the VR11's i had already ordered).

now fast forward to today. the VR11's are still not even started (although still on order)......and i have recieved the MM3's.

i'll continue later and try to address all the questions....gotta go to work.

mikelavigne January 08, 2007 09:57

Hi Mike,I have been reading your thread for a long time and I feel I have to interject my opinion.You have a room most of us only dream about,you have probably the best turntable made,one of the best amp and pre-amp combos on the market and the best speaker cable made.You took months to tune in your vr9s and got them and the whole system in sync,so my question is why play with it,why not just sit back and enjoy.High end audio can and will make you crazy so enjoy your fantastic set-up and let your so called friends make money off someone else.Good Luck.

strapper211 January 08, 2007 07:21