Hi Max. I still haven't pulled the trigger on the Vandy sub, but I'm still slowly saving. I noticed that you made up your own X-2 clone crossovers. I found a webpage to help figure out the cap values. Can you tell me how you made them? I can't exactly picture how it would be put together. As close as I can come is to put the cap in series with the + or signal portion of the RCA and run a bare wire on the - or ground (direct ground to ground connection). Am I close or way off?

Thanks for the help.

John

jkay May 08, 2006 19:01

I`m a MFA man but I`ve got to say your system looks SHARP!!! .I`ve always loved the look and sound of the W.T table.--NICE

joseph6550 March 31, 2006 01:34

Varakan, My VT 50 sits on a Bright Star air isolation platform with a Big Rock style sand box on top of that. Add the tube dampers to that and it really can sing! This allows the amp to reproduce very wonderful harmonic richness. Same thing with my SP9. It sits on the same arrangement with a VPI brick on top of it and HAL-0 damping instruments on the 6922's. The 9 is a case where it sounds very different with good vibration isolation that without. I really like the performance I get from the Electro Harmonix 6922 in it set up this way. Not an expensive tube at all with nice big sound stage and good extension at both ends. Good luck. I hope if you try a few of these set up tricks you like them as much as I do.

maxgain January 21, 2006 15:56

Thanks Maxgain, I don't have any in Output tubes.. Nice try for me.

varakan January 19, 2006 16:03

Hello guys. Thanks for looking in. Varakan I need to get a new pic up. The Vandersteens are long gone but the VT 50 is a real sweet heart and the SP 9 never really get the respect it deserves. The secret to getting the best sound from a 9 is the right vibration control. The VT responds real well to it too. Herbie's Audio Labs HAL-O dampening instruments are well worth every penny! Don't forget to use them on the output tubes too!

Ray I have not tried the rollers under the table but I am using them under my CD 2 and really like what they do there. I do have an isolation base that I just need to put the finish on that will go under the table soon.

I need to update my system listing here a bit. I have been a little distracted as of late due to some family issues. I am finding some good new tweaks though and the system is sounding real nice. One of the things I am playing around with is Oyaide AC products. I have one of their AC outlets in the system right now and it just works so well. I am using a Cryo'd SWO-GX for the front end. I would not hesitate to recommend them to everyone. I am very close to getting a second one to feed my amp and sub. I may use a Cryo'd SWO-XXX in this position. Killer stuff! Wish I could afford more of their products. The AC males are great as well as their IEC ends.

maxgain January 18, 2006 23:50

Maxgain,Have you tryed anything diff. on your Scout regarding isolation? I know you wanted to try a bearing type device,just wondering if youve had a chance yet,Ray

raytheprinter January 18, 2006 20:08

I just saw your system picture.. We've used black Vt-50 with Sp9 MkIII the same..I run it with ProAc 1SC..I really like the sound..I think, your use with Vandee should also sound good too

Enjoy,
Varakan.

varakan January 18, 2006 15:56

James,

Much of it depends on the size of your room and the volume you like to listen at. I know of three people that live close by that all drive Vandersteen 2's(one pr. of 2Ci's, a pr. of 2Ce's and a pr. of 2Ce Sig's)with tube amps of this size very well. None of them have huge rooms.

You might consider trying a self powered sub in the system like I have done. This is a great way to add some power. I prefer the type of subs that use a high pass filter on the main amp. With this configuration you are truly bi-amping the system. The high pass filters out the low bass from the signal going to the main amp.This way the amp in the sub which is generaly quite large does a lot of the heavy lifting. It does take a lot of work to set it up right, but once you do it is all worth while.

maxgain August 19, 2005 11:32

Hi,
I wonder if your 45Watts/channel tube amplifier strong enough to handle Vandy 2Ce. I have same speakers and tried to use Jolida 302 tube amplifier (50Watts/channel)which apparently, it's barely adequate. One of dealer told me that I have to use higher power to drive Vandy 2Ce.
Thanks for your sharing.
James

jmset315 August 18, 2005 15:14

System edited: If you have not tried the Herbie's Audio Lab Grungebuster CD Mat yet, do it! One word review, amazing. I need not say any more.

maxgain July 31, 2005 12:47

Kevin,

I think you would enjoy the sound of my Phantom's if you did like yours. Mine don't have any electrolytic caps in the crossover which makes a big improvement and the new Audax woofers are very close to state of art as far as driver tech goes. The new woofers have very little stored energy and are built like a tank. The old Polydax was ok for it's day but bears very little resembelence to these. Comparing these two woofers to each other is like comparing and old 70's Chevy Nova to a new Lexus as far as technology and build quality.

maxgain July 11, 2005 22:28

Well, I met Bill a few times back in the day and have heard MANY pairs of Phantoms, my friend Hart sold quite a few to people I know and Hart (who I did hi-end repairs for) continued to sell them until Bill stopped making them as I recall. My pair came toward the end of the run and I liked them quite a bit overall at the time despite the slight reservations I had about them.

I am glad that you are happy with your speakers. The nice thing about liking a speaker like the Kindel is that there is no "Kindel cult" to bid 'em up when they show up used. And I would love to hear them with your latest mods for myself.

3ox June 28, 2005 13:01

Kevin,

There were quite a few variations of the Phantom over the years that Bill produced them. Some versions used different driver phase arrangemnts which could explain your feelings on coherence. My first pair was a late version which was very coherent as Bill refined things as time went on. The pair I own now is an early pair but I have made a number of upgrades and changes to them.

I have had several people over to hear them who have a great deal of experience with high end audio. The comments that I keep getting are comparisons to other very expensive current loudspeaker systems. Having owned quite a number of loudspeakers myself and having been in high end audio for ten years a while back, I have had the chance to get to know the sound of a number of the better speaker systems out there(B&W, Theil, Vandersteen, Quad, Magnepan, Martin Logan,Kindel Audio, Spica, to name some) including the Quad ESL57. At this point I have no interest in even thinking about changing to any other speakers and I am not even done updating them. I think that says alot.

I hope you do continue to enjoy the Quattro's.

maxgain June 27, 2005 13:02

Sorry to get back to you so late! I used ARC SP8 and D90B with the Kindels. Funny, at the time the dealer who sold Fuselier and Kindel had Vandy's but wouldn't play 'em for anyone. I finally got him to play the Vandy's (2c at the time) and felt they were more natural than the Kindels (although the top end was not up to the leaf tweeter in the Kindels). I could always hear that the drivers didn't quite cohere in the Kindel and I am (over) sensitive to that. But don't get me wrong, I like 'em and if I ever see a pair cheep might pick 'em up for old times sake. Too bad Bill K didn't stick with it, would be interesting to see what he would have come up with.
Ironically, the original store owner (Hart Huschens, Audio Connection, Verona NJ) sold out to John Rutan who recognized what a fine speaker Vandersteen made, picked up the ball and has sold them like crazy!
As far as Richard goes, he actually is a delightful guy IN PERSON. But he seems to not particularly like to talk on the phone, especially to people he doesn't know. He ticks some people off because he won't send out drivers etc. and let people fix their own speakers, but that's a business decision, he doesn't want defective speakers out in the field, he likes to make sure that after the repair the speakers are up to snuff. I can see both sides of that argument, I guess.
I have over the years had a lot of hi-end speakers and am not wedded to Vandersteen, but was taken by the Vandy 5. But kinda big and expensive (of course not so expensive for a flagship design where other companies have 100k$ plus stuff). But the new Quattros really caught me and I bought a pair. A really great speaker, not cheap at about $7000, but at least attainable to a poor country broadcast engineer. Of my arsenal of speakers (many of which are now gone) the only one that could keep up was the old Quad 57s which probably means something.
Good Luck with those Kindels!

Regards, Kevin

3ox June 25, 2005 00:37

Phd,Thanks for looking in and for the kind words.

maxgain April 14, 2005 21:01

Wonderful system, not an Albert Porter system as you mentioned but a real eye pleaser, well integrated into a spectacular room! This is the kind of system I enjoy seeing rather than something priced out of most peoples reach. Simplicity has beauty!

phd April 13, 2005 01:15

Thanks John and Gammajo for reading along.

The single sub in this room works very well. I never have any localization problems or problems with the image due to the single sub. I do think that there are advantages to having two but for now I am very pleased with the performance. I have taken great care to make sure the woofer is set up to it's full advantage.

As far as the glass goes. It isn't much of a problem with this set up.The big plant does break up things a bit like a living room lens. I do plan to use some Marigo damping dots on the largest of the glass because the woofer does flex them a bit and I am quite sure that even greater clarity can be had. I think the glass may have been a bigger issue if I had chosen to use Maggies or another di-pole speaker in the same placement. I think glass behind the listener is a bigger problem.

I have some additional vibration control bases in the works for the TT, speakers, and the electronics. It may be some time before they get finished and installed.

Stay tuned.

maxgain March 03, 2005 23:34

I like your system and was encouraged that you get good sound in front of a window with a ten foot peaked ceiling. That is how I have mine and I have surprised at the sound field and imaging in front of glass. Thanks for the Vandy tip[. I hate lousy service and am loyal to those who extend pleasantly.
gammajo

gammajo March 03, 2005 12:39

John,

Thanks for looking in. It is sounding very nice right now. I tweaked the Phantom's with a new cap from VH Audio. Chris Venhaus sent me some of his new OIMP(oil impregnated metallized polypropylene caps to test. http://v-cap.com/oilcapacitors.html
I used them in the mid range circuit of the Phantom's. These caps sound wonderful. They give the speakers a very detailed yet very natural quality. I am very pleased with the results. My hope is to get more for the tweeter circuit as soon as I can.

maxgain January 18, 2005 08:35

Nice looking system,,, Bet it really does sound great.
....peace.

John
Hobart, Indiana

jlazart January 17, 2005 17:18

System edited: I have added a set of FIM 305 isolation bearings to the system. I am using a set of 3 of them between the CD2 and the Bright Star Air Mass 3. Overall they bring added focus and definition to the sound and improve the presentation of sound stage space. I have more tweaks coming soon and I have done some more work to the Phantom's x-overs with a so far top secret new cap that I will be reporting on shortly.

maxgain December 26, 2004 11:32

Ray, Thanks. The system looks abit different now with the new speakers. They are still in the restoration process. I need to post a new pic soon, even with the speakers in their unfinished state.

The plants do give the room a nice feel and they act as a bit of defusion for the bay window.

I think that a sand base like the Bright Star Big Rock would work well under your Scout in terms of bang for the buck. I am also looking very hard at roller bearing devices like the Symposium Roller Block and the Aurios. They are pretty spendy too. Not sure how well they work for a TT though. They seem a bit spooky in that aplication.

maxgain October 05, 2004 00:42

hi Maxgain,i bought a couple herbie tube dampers ,they work very well,cleared up a bit of muddiness in my lower mids,upper bass,good bang for the buck!now im trying to decide what to use to isolate my scout,also added a pr of diy acoustic panels,,really improved sound,im going to build a couple bass traps soon.you sure have a nice clean set up!the plants add a nice touch!

raytheprinter October 04, 2004 22:49

Kevin,

Are the Pawn shop Phantom's still there?

What did you run your Phantom's with? They love my ARC tube gear.

Over the years of the production Bill made several tweaks to the speaker that did improve them. I have incorporated those(as this pair is a much older version than the first pair I had) and several of my own along with Bill's help. They sound so good even before I have "completed" my restoration that I am not interested in any other speaker. I am not sure that I would trade them for any Vandersteen other than maybe the 5a. Maybe.I have listened to the 5a at a dealer friend of mine's place and they do sound great. I'm just not sure that they would let me enjoy the music any more that I am now. My plan was to replace the 2Ce with a pair of Maggie 1.6's but now I don't feel any desire to. In addition the Pahntom works so well with the 2Wq now that I have the right high pass filter. I think that's what the Phantom needed all along in a bigger room. The 2Wq set up is perfect as it it a true bi-amped set up and lets the 5 1/4" woofers work much better without the long excursions. They only need to have minimal output to about 40Hz(first order filter starting at about 80Hz) to blend with the sub.

Richard hates audiophiles. He's just a grumpy old fart.

Never heard Fuseliers.

maxgain September 22, 2004 09:40

Surprised you had problems with Richard, but my guess is that you wanted to work on your speakers yourself and he is pretty adimantly negative about that. I had Kindel Phantoms many years ago, a local dealer was pretty hot on them. I am surprised that only 300 were made, I have known of about 7 pairs myself, including one pair for sale at a pawn shop! They were interesting, but ultimately not that coherent to my ears, at least back then. Would be interesting to see what I think about them today. The other speaker he was keen on was the Fuselier, another obscure speaker. Ultimately, I prefered the Fuseliers but that's what makes a horserace...

Regards, Kevin

3ox September 21, 2004 12:56