System edited: The system is re evolving slowly back to higher performance. I am in the process of building a Nelson Pass designed DIY, First Watt B1 buffer stage between the Cd out put and the amp. No gain is needed here as the Cd player outputs 2 volts and the amp can be driven to it's full power with that same voltage. The B1 is said to be very transparent. I am also still in the process of replacing my beloved low frequencies with a DIY replacement of the 2Wq which will utilize a single Dayton Reference series 15" driver in a sealed cabinet of yet undetermined dimensions, driven by quite a powerful plate amp. Tweaking will continue as always, because without tweaking you just have a bunch of stuff hooked up and stuck randomly in a room that makes some sort of sound/noise. None of this gear is plug and play. It takes time and patience and an open mind to coax music from your electronics.

maxgain May 06, 2009 14:47

It has been about 35 years now that I have always had a vinyl rig in my system. Yesterday I sold my trusty and beloved Well Tempered Lab table along with my audio research preamp.

I need to simplify my life as things have gotten complicated with both my beautiful Wife's and with my own health.

I will now pursue, or so far this is the plan, an all digital system that will consist of quite a bit of DIY gear.

It is both sad in one way and exciting in another. A very nice local gentleman bought the gear from me and couldn't be a bigger pleasure to work with. He is excited about getting it and I'm excited about him getting as much enjoyment from it in the future as I have in the past.

I will build around the Kindels and start over in a new adventure to once again coax music from these magic little boxes of electronics.

maxgain February 19, 2009 00:26

System edited: Now finally Vandersteen free and very happy about it indeed! Too many nice people in this business to own stuff made by people like him. I am going to throw a party when that old "DICK" kicks the bucket after having an aneurysm while screaming at yet another of his valued customers. I now give him the finger! There ya go DICK, happy trails, a-hole. Sold the 2Wq to a friend and I am now on a journey to DIY my own sub. Lots of details to work out and the rest of the system is in complete flux. I deleted the old system pic. It was like it came from a history book. I may just sell everything off except the Phantoms, the rack, and most of the cables and start over much of it DIY.

maxgain October 19, 2008 17:09

Hi Chez,

How are things going? Send me an e-mail sometime.

I've had the Rotel in the system for more than a year. I like it at least as well as the CD 2. The isolation st up has a lot to do with it sounding so good. Roller bearings work wonders under CD players. ARC can't service the transports on the CD 2 now. I would love to have an ARC CD 3 with it's Phillips Pro 2 drive. My other friend Mike has a 3 mkII and I'd say it's worth every penny it cost but the 1072 is a real bang for the buck champ, especially a clean used one like I bought.

Sudzy,

May I ask why you might want to upgrade the tweeters? Are they not working properly? As far as the passive a SEAS would drop right in. You would need to experiment with adding some mass to get the right system Q, but it's fairly easy to accomplish.

I'm happy to answer any other Phantom questions I can.

maxgain January 20, 2008 17:14

Duncan,

The best speaker placement is going to vary from room to room.
I would start with the "Speaker Placement" section of the manual for your speakers. There is a section the gives some guidelines for different placements based on the dimensions of your room. Some experimentation will be needed but the guidelines should give you some good starting points.

As far as cable goes you can find some good values out there. I would check out the Grover interconnects that I am using now. His IC's offer very high performance for your dollar. I love them in my rig and have no real interest in trying anything else now. I also hear great things about Grover's speaker wire from an on line audio buddy who bought some and loves it. The Audioplan speaker wire I am using now is a silver clad wire from Germany and is something that I have had for years. I'm not sure anyone sells it in the U.S. at this time. You can e-mail Grover for details. It takes a long time to get the cables but is well worth the wait.

[email protected]

Have fun Duncan.

maxgain January 10, 2007 16:34

System edited: I'll try at some point to get new photos of the system. The new speakers aren't as pretty to look at right now as the old ones but they sound great. I updated the power supply in the SP 9 with a Jensen audio grade 100uF 500V electrolytic cap and IXYS ultra high speed soft recovery diodes. It needs a few days to burn in but so far the change is a positive one. The stock main power supply cap was getting quite old and I wanted to replace it BEFORE it might have a failure.

maxgain September 22, 2006 17:29

System edited: The Kindels have been updated once again with new Dayton Reference Series dome mid range drivers. The RS52AN-8 2" dome mid range replaces the old and now tired Polydax(Audax) 37mm fabric domes from the original design. The specs are close enough on the two drivers that it is working so far as a drop in replacement. The RS52 is very low in distortion. They sound amazing. I will need to let things burn in a settle down. Ther is still the possibility that after living with he change I may need to make small adjustments to the crossover but at this point I don't think that is going to be needed at all. I now dub this the Kindel Audio "Super" Phantom. With the upgraded crossover parts and the new high tech Audax woofers and now the new mid domes these things are sounding pretty special. The Foster leaf tweeter is an outstanding performer and these new drivers seem to elevate everything to that level. If you can't tell I am pretty damn pleased.

maxgain September 01, 2006 22:44

System edited: Grover Ultimate Reference IC's are placed in the system between the CD player and the pre amp and from the pre amp to the amp. These are a silver copper hybred cable with simple low mass RCA ends that sound great to my ear. They are very clean, very open, and very musical. A real high value product and a best buy. Grover does one hell of a job.

maxgain July 06, 2006 17:09

System edited: Getting the EVo 200.2 settled into the rig. Added tweaked CPCC Model Eleven to power the amp. The cable has an all copper Furutech male end and a silver plated bronze IEC. The amp is plugged straight into the Oyaide SWO-GX. A three foot stock version of the same cable now powers the Vandersteen sub with the addition of a Cryo treated Schurter IEC inlet. This replaces a 16 gauge stock cord on the sub.

maxgain June 19, 2006 00:41

System edited: The next phase of the downsizing move has been to part with my beloved Audio research VT 50 tube amp. I have only owned tube amps for more than twenty years. I will miss a lot about this amp. I won't miss the heat or needing to think about tube life. The Bel Canto will be on all the time, warmed up and waiting to play. I don't even have it yet so I don't know for sure what it will sound like in the system. I am hoping for good things adn can always tweak things to taste. I will report further after it arrives.

maxgain May 29, 2006 18:31

John,
Feel free to e-mail me. I can give you a few more pointers on getting the most from your subs if you like.

maxgain May 23, 2006 00:32

Jkay, your calculations are correct. I come up with 150k as a 0.01325uF cap. The model three will work great with the sub. If you have a really big room and like or liuke a bit more warmth the .014 value would
be better, if you could find that exact size cap. There is always a little slop in cap values within a certian tolerance. I find that DynamiCaps .01 tend to really be .013 and I doubt you could find them much closer to what you are needing than that. You should pay a little extra and have the caps matched and try to get them to match them as close to the true value you need. They will be measuring the actual individual cap values with a meter.

maxgain May 21, 2006 22:43

Jkay,
What are you using for your main speakers? Speaker systems with sensitivity above 90db can somethimes be a challenge to get the right balance with the 2Wq.

maxgain May 20, 2006 02:04

System edited: The downsizing has begun. I find myself needing to remove some cash from my system. I sold my trusty Audio Research CD player and replaced it with a Rotel RCD-1072. I have to say that I think I can live quite happily with the sound of the 1072. The next unit that I have to part with is my beloved VT 50. I will hate to see it go too but I will figure out a way to still get good sound but on a much tighter budget.

maxgain May 18, 2006 02:52

John,
Other than some small details that is for the most part all there is to the filters. Have you ever seen the X-2 fixed filters that vandersteen makes? I like to use teflon to insulate the ground wire.

I would be willing to check out the numbers you came up with for the filters.

maxgain May 10, 2006 03:32

Varakan, My VT 50 sits on a Bright Star air isolation platform with a Big Rock style sand box on top of that. Add the tube dampers to that and it really can sing! This allows the amp to reproduce very wonderful harmonic richness. Same thing with my SP9. It sits on the same arrangement with a VPI brick on top of it and HAL-0 damping instruments on the 6922's. The 9 is a case where it sounds very different with good vibration isolation that without. I really like the performance I get from the Electro Harmonix 6922 in it set up this way. Not an expensive tube at all with nice big sound stage and good extension at both ends. Good luck. I hope if you try a few of these set up tricks you like them as much as I do.

maxgain January 21, 2006 20:56

Hello guys. Thanks for looking in. Varakan I need to get a new pic up. The Vandersteens are long gone but the VT 50 is a real sweet heart and the SP 9 never really get the respect it deserves. The secret to getting the best sound from a 9 is the right vibration control. The VT responds real well to it too. Herbie's Audio Labs HAL-O dampening instruments are well worth every penny! Don't forget to use them on the output tubes too!

Ray I have not tried the rollers under the table but I am using them under my CD 2 and really like what they do there. I do have an isolation base that I just need to put the finish on that will go under the table soon.

I need to update my system listing here a bit. I have been a little distracted as of late due to some family issues. I am finding some good new tweaks though and the system is sounding real nice. One of the things I am playing around with is Oyaide AC products. I have one of their AC outlets in the system right now and it just works so well. I am using a Cryo'd SWO-GX for the front end. I would not hesitate to recommend them to everyone. I am very close to getting a second one to feed my amp and sub. I may use a Cryo'd SWO-XXX in this position. Killer stuff! Wish I could afford more of their products. The AC males are great as well as their IEC ends.

maxgain January 19, 2006 04:50

James,

Much of it depends on the size of your room and the volume you like to listen at. I know of three people that live close by that all drive Vandersteen 2's(one pr. of 2Ci's, a pr. of 2Ce's and a pr. of 2Ce Sig's)with tube amps of this size very well. None of them have huge rooms.

You might consider trying a self powered sub in the system like I have done. This is a great way to add some power. I prefer the type of subs that use a high pass filter on the main amp. With this configuration you are truly bi-amping the system. The high pass filters out the low bass from the signal going to the main amp.This way the amp in the sub which is generaly quite large does a lot of the heavy lifting. It does take a lot of work to set it up right, but once you do it is all worth while.

maxgain August 19, 2005 15:32

System edited: If you have not tried the Herbie's Audio Lab Grungebuster CD Mat yet, do it! One word review, amazing. I need not say any more.

maxgain July 31, 2005 16:47

Kevin,

I think you would enjoy the sound of my Phantom's if you did like yours. Mine don't have any electrolytic caps in the crossover which makes a big improvement and the new Audax woofers are very close to state of art as far as driver tech goes. The new woofers have very little stored energy and are built like a tank. The old Polydax was ok for it's day but bears very little resembelence to these. Comparing these two woofers to each other is like comparing and old 70's Chevy Nova to a new Lexus as far as technology and build quality.

maxgain July 12, 2005 02:28

Kevin,

There were quite a few variations of the Phantom over the years that Bill produced them. Some versions used different driver phase arrangemnts which could explain your feelings on coherence. My first pair was a late version which was very coherent as Bill refined things as time went on. The pair I own now is an early pair but I have made a number of upgrades and changes to them.

I have had several people over to hear them who have a great deal of experience with high end audio. The comments that I keep getting are comparisons to other very expensive current loudspeaker systems. Having owned quite a number of loudspeakers myself and having been in high end audio for ten years a while back, I have had the chance to get to know the sound of a number of the better speaker systems out there(B&W, Theil, Vandersteen, Quad, Magnepan, Martin Logan,Kindel Audio, Spica, to name some) including the Quad ESL57. At this point I have no interest in even thinking about changing to any other speakers and I am not even done updating them. I think that says alot.

I hope you do continue to enjoy the Quattro's.

maxgain June 27, 2005 17:02

Phd,Thanks for looking in and for the kind words.

maxgain April 15, 2005 01:01

Thanks John and Gammajo for reading along.

The single sub in this room works very well. I never have any localization problems or problems with the image due to the single sub. I do think that there are advantages to having two but for now I am very pleased with the performance. I have taken great care to make sure the woofer is set up to it's full advantage.

As far as the glass goes. It isn't much of a problem with this set up.The big plant does break up things a bit like a living room lens. I do plan to use some Marigo damping dots on the largest of the glass because the woofer does flex them a bit and I am quite sure that even greater clarity can be had. I think the glass may have been a bigger issue if I had chosen to use Maggies or another di-pole speaker in the same placement. I think glass behind the listener is a bigger problem.

I have some additional vibration control bases in the works for the TT, speakers, and the electronics. It may be some time before they get finished and installed.

Stay tuned.

maxgain March 04, 2005 04:34

John,

Thanks for looking in. It is sounding very nice right now. I tweaked the Phantom's with a new cap from VH Audio. Chris Venhaus sent me some of his new OIMP(oil impregnated metallized polypropylene caps to test. http://v-cap.com/oilcapacitors.html
I used them in the mid range circuit of the Phantom's. These caps sound wonderful. They give the speakers a very detailed yet very natural quality. I am very pleased with the results. My hope is to get more for the tweeter circuit as soon as I can.

maxgain January 18, 2005 13:35

System edited: I have added a set of FIM 305 isolation bearings to the system. I am using a set of 3 of them between the CD2 and the Bright Star Air Mass 3. Overall they bring added focus and definition to the sound and improve the presentation of sound stage space. I have more tweaks coming soon and I have done some more work to the Phantom's x-overs with a so far top secret new cap that I will be reporting on shortly.

maxgain December 26, 2004 16:32

Ray, Thanks. The system looks abit different now with the new speakers. They are still in the restoration process. I need to post a new pic soon, even with the speakers in their unfinished state.

The plants do give the room a nice feel and they act as a bit of defusion for the bay window.

I think that a sand base like the Bright Star Big Rock would work well under your Scout in terms of bang for the buck. I am also looking very hard at roller bearing devices like the Symposium Roller Block and the Aurios. They are pretty spendy too. Not sure how well they work for a TT though. They seem a bit spooky in that aplication.

maxgain October 05, 2004 04:42

Kevin,

Are the Pawn shop Phantom's still there?

What did you run your Phantom's with? They love my ARC tube gear.

Over the years of the production Bill made several tweaks to the speaker that did improve them. I have incorporated those(as this pair is a much older version than the first pair I had) and several of my own along with Bill's help. They sound so good even before I have "completed" my restoration that I am not interested in any other speaker. I am not sure that I would trade them for any Vandersteen other than maybe the 5a. Maybe.I have listened to the 5a at a dealer friend of mine's place and they do sound great. I'm just not sure that they would let me enjoy the music any more that I am now. My plan was to replace the 2Ce with a pair of Maggie 1.6's but now I don't feel any desire to. In addition the Pahntom works so well with the 2Wq now that I have the right high pass filter. I think that's what the Phantom needed all along in a bigger room. The 2Wq set up is perfect as it it a true bi-amped set up and lets the 5 1/4" woofers work much better without the long excursions. They only need to have minimal output to about 40Hz(first order filter starting at about 80Hz) to blend with the sub.

Richard hates audiophiles. He's just a grumpy old fart.

Never heard Fuseliers.

maxgain September 22, 2004 13:40

George, Glad to hear from you. Glad to hear that you are still enjoying the 2Ce's. If you are getting itchy to upgrade, adding a 2Wq or even a pair is a nice way to improve on the 2Ce's. If you ever decide to do that I can give you some advice on how to get the best sound from the set up.

The Pahantom project is going quite well. I still have a ways to go with the cosmetics, but that is coming along too.I just need to do things in the right order.
I did make some crossover adjustments to the zeobel networks to compensate for the different voice coil inductance of the new drivers and added new Solen Fast Caps for the woofers low pass filter circuit and one in the band pass for the mid. The X-over is all film caps now and is sounding very good. I will replace more of the old caps as funds allow. Some of them are old Mexican made Texas Instruments mylars and the likes. Not great stuff. It's a good sign that if they sound this good with some of that stuff still in there that it will only get better as I repalce them with most likley TRT DynamiCaps a little at a time.

I am experimenting with the speaker isolation stands right now with encouraging results. That will only get better too. The system is working real well. New pre amp tubes, Electro Harmonix 6922 gold pins, took the whole thing up a notch and I built an isolation base for my Monster power conditioner that feeds the front end. It's been fun to have it come together so well.

Great to hear from you George. Very happy to hear that you like the speakers. I enjoyed them when they were here too.

maxgain August 31, 2004 23:12

Another update on the Phantom project.

The Foster tweeter and Polydax dome mid both reside in a small cabinet of their own mounted atop the woofer box. The mid/tweeter box is roughly 10 1/2" tall, 6" wide, and 5" inches in depth. Both the drivers are sealed back units, so the air volume behind them is just wasted space. I treated the interior cabinet walls with a thick layer of Moretite constrained by a layer of foil. I then filled the remaining volume of the box with fine white sand. I have to say that this worked out very well indeed. The drivers now seem better able to resolve subtle information. The sound is more relaxed and has better focus. It was worth the effort.

I am tweaking the crossover a bit with some better film caps as well as working out the new speaker isolation stands. Both of these are yeilding good results. I have take it slow. I don't want to change too much too soon.

maxgain July 03, 2004 16:35

System edited: I have updated the information about my on going modification of the Kindel Phantoms. I have replaced the original Polydax woofers with Audax HM130Z12 drivers. These utilize an Aerogel(HDA)composite cone and a rigid die cast Zamik chassis. They incorporate a high loss Norsorex(this is the same material that "dead balls" or "sad balls" you may have read about are made of) surround, phase plug, vented pole piece, and a raised spider. These are very very similar to the mid drivers used in many of the higher priced Von Schweikert loudspeakers. This drivers cone material(HDA) is a state of the art composite of carbon powder, Kevlar, and cellulose acitate pulp. This composite cone is said to be extremely light and rigid as well as being self damped. I'm still breaking them in. They are working out very well with a few adjustments to allow for their added sensitivity. So far they sound wonderful. I am still tuning the systems Q a bit and will need to be patient until they are fully run in.

maxgain June 20, 2004 15:30

System edited: I have been in a vibration control mode now after being reminded once again of the gains that can be had after the installation of the woofer platform. I tried two more tweaks this week that were very worth while. The first one involved a bit of energy control for the Phantom's woofer baskets. The Polydax woofers with their stamped baskets are soon going to be replaced by new very high quality Audax HM130Z12 Aerogel drivers with very sturdy cast frames. Until then I tried a bit of(quite a bit) moretite applied on the back of the drivers and on the basket of the 8" passive(which is also going to be replaced by a SEAS unit). The thing that I didn't expect was the increased output from the drivers after this application. It required the speakers be re-positioned a bit to get a good bass blend again. I may experiment further with this by creating a constrained layer by placing foil over the top of the mortite and see what happens. They have a lot more punch with this stuff on the woofers. The only down side is that the speakers now seem to put a bit more energy into the floor than they did. I am still working out the details for a set of stands for the speakers. Sand will come into play I can assure you. The next tweak worked remakably well. I borrowed the idea from Mike Elliot of Counterpoint. I read on his web site that he had made significant improvements by damping resonances of the printed circuit boards in older Counterpoint units like the SA 5 and now offers it as an upgrade. He compared it to the sound of point to point wiring. The technique is very simple and involves the use of thick wool felt pads applied to the pc board. I placed thick blocks of felt between the bottom cover of the SP 9 and the board. I was careful not to block air flow to keep things cool. The felt is slightly compressed between the board and the bottom cover. I could tell a big difference in the way the chassis sounded when taped on after I put it back together. I not only seems to deaden the pc board but helps to deaden the bottom cover as well. This is a great tweak. It gave the system an even smoother and more open sound along with greater weight and authority in the low bass. It increased the overall realism of the presentation. I'm very pleased to say the least. The plan is to go after more vibration and resonance. There are a few places in the system I have my eye and ear on that I think will get me closer to where I want to go. To be continued............. from "The Further Misadventures of Maxgain, Resonance Hunter"

maxgain May 22, 2004 16:24

After having a chance to listen to the system with the new sub platform in place I have to say that I expected an improvement but not to this degree. The woofer was able to exert quite a bit of sheer force on this old house in general. It caused a huge resonance in the kitchen which is adjacent to the listening room. It was quite unpleasant to be in the kitchen while the music was playing at anywhere near a lifelike level. Likewise the living room and dining room got the same soet of room boom. Perhaps worst of all even the bedroom was turned into a bass resonance chamber, which was very disruptive to my wife if she was in there trying to read or just resting while I was listening, heaven forbid she tried to sleep. I had some idea that the stand may eliminate some of this. To my delight it has done away with nearly all the transfer of bass energy throughout the houses other living spaces.

Now on to the real stuff. I had pretty good bass the way it was set up before. This is not a small improvement. It is a major step forward. It took a lot of room interaction away that leaves me with less overhang and much improved clarity, not just in the low end but overall. The bass has much better toneality and texture. I am sure that this is due to several factors. As i mentioned it isn't exciting the room in the same way and it helps my other isolation components do a more effective job. The turntable sounds vastly improved. Listening to vinyl last night reminded me of why I have kept the Well Tempered Labs around all these years. Vinyl kicks butt! I had never really warmed up to the V15 the way I thought I should until last night.

This worked so well that now I'm going to build a sand platform for the table as soon as I can. I also think that the amp and speakers are going to get the same treatment.

Anyone with a sub that can generate a lot of low frequency energy owes it to themselves to try this. I have to say I love it!

maxgain May 15, 2004 22:08

System edited: I replaced the Billy Bags 2020 amp stand that was under my 2Wq with a DIY clone of Bright Star Audio's, Big Rock. It holds over 60 lbs. of sand. After my initial experiments with decoupling speakers from the floor I have decided that this is the direction I am going with my system.I have a plywood floor which the woofer is able to excite quite a bit. I was able to make a substantial improvement placing the sub on the amp stand with Vibrapods between them rather than just on the stock spikes. Sand has the ability to dissapate a great deal of acoustic energy, converting vibrational energy into heat. I have not set the stand up yet and will update further after I have a chance to get the full scope of the changes in the sonic presentation. A second platform was built at the same time for a friends 2Wq. He reported improved clarity, not only in the bass but into the mid range, which I have to assume is due to less excitement of the room. He also reports better bass impact as well as improved bass texture. I should get a chance to hear it myself tonight. His woofer was on the standard spikes that come with the sub,also on a carpeted wood floor. He had gotten some gain just by putting some wood between the spikes and the carpet. He placed Mapleshade Isoblocks between the sub and the new platform. His platform sits directly on the carpeted floor and is also a corner placement like mine. I am going to use the same set of Vibrapods that I used between the sub and the Billy Bags stand. I am giong to lift my platform off the carpet with some old Mod Squad large Tip Toes I have lying about. I will give a more complete report soon. Thanks for reading along.

maxgain May 13, 2004 15:42

Ray, tube dambers are well worth the cost as tubes are very sensitive to vibration. Again, I have not tried them all. The clear rings from Audio Research made an improvement in the focus and clarity of my system for very few dollars. Music Direct sells some very similar to ARC's. They also sell the small Margio dots which could be used in combination with the rings or other dambers, like Top Hats. I would like to try the Herbie's dampers too.They make some that are large enough for 6550's for my amp. They are very reasonable in price and I hear good reports from the field. They also have some cool isolation feet that are reaonable and he seems to know a good thing when ne hears it. Here is the URL, http://herbiesaudiolab.home.att.net/

maxgain April 21, 2004 04:09

Raytheprinter,Swampwalker,Lak,
Glad you guys looked in to see what's going on here.

Ray,As far as the tweaks, I have been a hard core tweaker ever since I got my hands on some Mogami speaker cable back in the seventies. I started playing around with isolation products the first time I saw the Mod Squad's Tip Toes and VPI's Magic Bricks back in the mid eighties. I feel pretty strongly that some form of isolation is essential for good sound reproduction. I am not in the business anymore and don't get the chance to try as many things out now. I am for the most part an isolation proponent. Some are ardent believers in products like the ones from Star Audio. Like I said I have not tried them all. I think that some combination of approaches might yeild the best results. With that in mind I am very confident that what products I am now employing in my system are contributing in a big way to the quality of sound I am able to achieve with the components I have. I have plans to take it a bit further in the future. I am in the planning stages of an isolation system for the speakers and the sub. After playing around with Vibrapods under my last pair of speakers to decouple them from the floor I am convinced that there are gains to be had in this area rather than just spikes(I have a plywood floor).The sub sounds much better sitting on a Billy Bags amp stand with Vibrapods between it and the stand that it even did on the factory spikes. I am considering starting with a sand type base for the sub and going from there. I want to incorporate the Bright Star Big Rocks in combination with the Air mass bases under the electronics, as well as under the TT. I think that this is the direction I am headed with the speakers too. Something like the Bright Star Air Mass under each speaker. I am playing around with alot of ideas. I have yet to try the roller ball devices, like the Aurios, and would love to see what they do. I am going to try the Marigo dots in a few places. The windosw need something and they make a constrained dampening dot that I gotta try. I am very interested in the Black Diamond racing stuff too. So many tweaks, so little cash.

Michael(Swampwalker), I will keep an eye on what you are up to.I understand wanting a pair of 5's. I have listened to the 5a and it is amazing. Sell that set of InfiniCap filters to someone here at AodiogoN,that is,if the person you sell your 2W to can't use them. I would be a shame to let them go to waste. They will put a smile on someones face who has been listening through a WX-2 or a pair of X-2's for high pass.

Larry(Lak) I tried it in the middle when I first got it and it sounded best in the corner.That was a different room though. I did move it quite a lot when I set it up in this room. I get quite smooth bass from it right now. You can't tell there is a sub in the system. It all sounds like it comes from the Phantom's. The plan is(I have way too many plans)to eventually get a second 2Wq for the other corner.

Like I said before, I am happy you guys are looking in.

maxgain April 20, 2004 23:51

Hi Albert, thanks for looking.

The Phantom is a very interesting loudspeaker. As I mentioned in one of the system updates I had owned a pair before and loved them. The Phantom by it's self is best in a smallish room. It does have limited L/F output and dynamic capability due to the fact that the bass drivers are 5 1/4" (a pair for each channel)Polydax units in their own enclosure coupled to an 8" passive. At the time I traded the Phantom's for a larger pair of Kindel Audio PLS-a's,when I had moved into a place with a large room. The PLS-a was one of the first the line source speakers I was aware of. Bill Kindel used 6, 6 1/2" woofers and 16 Foster 1" dome tweeters per side. These were great in a big room. This was about the time that the Vandersteen 2W came onto the market. I had been experimenting with the 2W at the store having used it quite a bit with Maggies,Vandys, and the Martin Logan CLS with great results. I'm not sure why I didn't just pick one up at that time for use with the Phantom. Hind sight is 20/20. The 2W is the perfect answer to what the Phantoms needed to work well in a larger space.

Back to what the Phantoms do well. The Phantom is able to image on par with the Spica TC 50. The speaker has real speed due to the fact that the drivers are all low in mass for their given range. The Foster leaf tweeter is gem. It's a very good sounding unit and gives the Phantom extension and detail in the top, without being spitty or harsh, that the Vandy's couldn't come close to. The Phantoms sound more like Maggies or stats overall than anything else I can compare them to. Everyone who hears them comments on how acoustic guitar sounds "right there" and voice has a natural quality that I just love. In combo with the 2Wq(after some tweaking of the high pass filter point)the bass is quick and powerful and blends like there's no sub at all.

Even with this sort of performance, I am very confident that I can improve them. When I had the chance to buy this pair, they were in somewhat rough shape. I knew it was going to be some work to fully resotre them. I had the chance to take them home and play around with them. When I listened to them I quickly remembered why I loved them so much the first time around. They are a rare bird. Only 300 pair were ever produced and the chance might not come around again. While I did enjoy the Vandersteen 2Ce's, which overall are a classic, the Phantom in my mind is a significant step forward. I have listened to the Vandy 3A Signatures and liked them, but I wouldn't trade the Phantom for them. I was going to buy a pair of Maggie 1.6's but don't feel the need to now. I think the Phantom is here to stay for quite a while.

Albert,it's great hear from you. I hope this gives you some context of what the Phantom is all about.

maxgain April 06, 2004 15:37

Thanks Larry.

The photo is a bit out of date. As I have mentioned the Vandy 2Ce's are gone, replaced by an old pair of Kindel Audio Phantoms. These are an ongoing project. I have done some of the cosmetic restoration already along with a few tweeks. They now have a black laquer finish and are getting grill material to match the Vandy woofer. As time and money permits they will be updated with new crossover caps(they are 20 years old and have some electrolytics in there), internal wire, binding posts, black whole damping material, and perhaps even new 5 1/4" drivers(I am considering the same drivers used in the older Von Schwikert VR 4, which is a carbon fiber cone driver made by Audax).

I have added two new Custom Power Cord Co. Model Elevens, one for the SP 9(which was made possible after I installed an IEC, and made a huge difference in it's performance) and a 9 footer for the VT 50. This has been a very worthwhile upgrade. I have my eye on a CCPC "Top Gun" of some sort for the cd player to replace the "High Value". The power cords have improved the whole systems performance.I have plans to install an IEC on the sub and put a CCPC cord on it too.

The SP 9, already has a few of my tweaks and is slated for more. The InfiniCaps I installed will be replaced in the line stage only(the phono stage will keep the InfiniCaps as they are a bitch to install in a 9) by DynamiCaps(I love the DynamiCap!). The old filter supply cap will be replaced with a more modern and more compact cap in order to make some room to install some Fairchild Stealth diodes which I think will take it up another notch. The Alps film style vomule pot will be replaced by a Goldpoint or DACT stepped attenuator with much lower distortion, better tracking, and better overall clarity than the stock unit.In addition I have done some listening to the new Electro Harmonix 6922 Glod Pins and am very pleased with what they do in my friends SP 9 mk III, so in they will go, perhaps with some new trick tube sockets of some sort. The VT 50 will also get a few Dynamicaps to replace the stock InfiniCaps.

My custom made(DynamiCap) high pass filters for the Vandy woofer have made a huge difference and I have plans to take that one step further in the future by building a battery biased version similar to the Vandersteen unit used for the 5 and the 5a.

I still need to update my AC with new lines and have my eye on some new power conditioning from Audio Magic. Perhaps a mini stealth and a mini digital. I am open to any suggestions about the best way to improve in this area and get the best from the new lines. I have the pre amp and CD plugged into the inexpensive Monster HTS 1000(I have considered modding it with a better power cord and Porter Ports, but am not sure it's worth fooling with) unit which seems to do ok. The amps sound much better plugged directly into the Porter Ports

As if this list isn't long enought, I want to figure out some sort of stands for the Kindels, get another 2Wq, put them both on ASC Sub Stands,and upgrade all my cables to something like Kimber Select and perhaps Kimber Monocle XL for the speakers.

All this will take a very long time and some(some?$$$$$$$$) funds. I feel good to have a plan for they system laid out. It sounds pretty good now and is a lot of fun to listen to.

I AM a tweak junkie. My name is Maxgain. This is part of my 12 step program.

maxgain April 05, 2004 16:07

System edited: I added some information about the drivers in the Phantoms.

maxgain September 24, 2003 13:05

Slipknot1, the iec on an SP 9 of any ilk is a delicate issue if you wan't it to look factory installed. The thing has got to be in just the right spot or the lugs will hit against the transformer. Make sure you keep it very low on the chassis and with the left side of the socket just touching against the fuse holder. That way it should clear the toroid and cover the hole for the stock cord. It's a sweaty palms operation. Use lots of blue masking tape to prevent marking up the back panel. I also recomend maksing and baging everything off to keep the metal shavings out of the works.Then clean up as carefuly as you can with a vacume and some of those little computer attachments. I take the knobs and front panel off before I start too. Just feels safer that way. Happy hacking!

maxgain September 13, 2003 02:46

Thanks Slipknot1,
The new speakers won't change the look or feel of the room much. I am putting a black laquer piano finish on them now(they were somewhat worn looking walnut with ratty black grill fabric) and have the beigh grill fabric that matches the 2Wq on it's way from Vandersteen. The Phantom's are rather unusual in that they are only 6 1/4" front to back, 18" wide and 40" tall.

If you can find someone to install an iec on your SP 9mkII so you can get rid of the silly 18 ga stock power cord it really ups the performance anty for that unit. I did mine and a friends 9 mkIII and we both use the CPCC model 11 cord. really takes it to a new level.

Enjoy.

maxgain September 13, 2003 01:23

Thanks, Viggen.

The room is an addition that I updated for a listening room about four years ago when I bought this house. It's about 16x23 and sunken 3 steps down from the rest of the house.It has a vaulted celing which is about 10ft at the peak. I installed two skylights to lighten things up a bit as the bay window that you see faces north,the skylights face north too and give the room a nice soft even light . The skylights are recessed in roughly 18" wells and don't seem to be a problem for the sound. The bay window behind the speakers might have been a problem with the Maggies if I had gone that route, it works out fine, as long as I have something there to act as a diffuser. There are some built in book cases on one wall. The walls are a heavy knock down texture and the carpet is a real short thick shag that looks like little dread locks. The main listening position is a low backed and very comfy old couch that got a face lift via a white Pottery Barn slip cover. I have a lot of art work in the room which is treated on the back of the frames with a product similar to blu-tac to keep them from buzzing banging about when the sub does it's thing. I like to keep my listening room comfortable and try to keep it from looking too much like a laboratory. It's a great space to spend time in.

I was looking over some of your listed systems and it seems that you are still busy building systems. Hope you are having fun with it.

maxgain September 12, 2003 21:54

System edited: I added an old photo of the system with the Vandy 2Ce's. This shows a pretty good view of my listening room. I will add some new pics of the Phantoms when I get the finish restoration completed.

maxgain September 12, 2003 16:56

System edited: Like revisiting an old friend after many years I aquired a pair of Kindel Phantom loudspeakers to replace the Vandersteens. I owned a pair of these back in the mid 80's and loved them. There were only 300 pair ever produced. I was planning to buy some Maggies but I fell into these at a bargian basement price and they still sound so good that I knew that they would be a welcome addition to my system. I am in the process of restoring and modernizing them slowly(after all, they are 20 years old and did not get much TLC from at least the last owner). The limitations of the Phantom used alone, in anything but a small room, are bass dynamics and bass extention. This is no problem in my system, as the 2Wq mates with the Phantom like they were designed to be used together. They are very fast, extended on top, and quite transparent. I am in the initial stages of the restoration in which they will get a new black finish and new beigh grill material to match their new playmate, the 2Wq. The full restoration will include new caps in the x-over,new 5" drivers,new wire, and many small details.

maxgain August 17, 2003 02:22

System edited: After having once again, been treated very rudely by Mr. Vandersteen over a very simple service question, the 2Ce's are banished forever from my home! This guy can design a speaker but has NO manners what so ever. I will never again recommend his products to anyone. He is part of the audio "Axis of Evil". It looks at this point like the good people at Magnepan are going to get my business again after 20 years.

maxgain February 25, 2003 14:44

Thanks Scott, that is my eventual plan(3a's or 5's) but I'm not in a hurry as it sounds so good now.

maxgain June 02, 2002 00:23

System edited: It has taken 30 years to get here!

maxgain May 31, 2002 03:44