System edited: Added 4 Shuguang Black Treasure CV-181-Z to each amp. So far, sound is noticeably more organic, open, extended and true to the music. Changed the center 2 first, per VAC, and got about an 80% change for the better. Added the outside 2's yesterday for the final 20% of improvement. 15 hours on the centers, 3 on the outers. I'm told full break-in may take as long as 300 hours or as little as 150 hours. In either case, I've got a while before these tubes are operating optimally - they are already considerably better than the stock VAC front tubes at this point. A very pleasant surprise, to be sure. They are not at all inexpensive, as I got the Premium grade from Grant Fidelity, sent directly from China. All that's left on the agenda is to integrate the new Velo DD-15+ when it arrives in 3-4 weeks and just take the summer off to listen to music (I wish!!).

fplanner2010 May 17, 2011 07:25

Well, so much for "waiting for winter"... I will probably be purchasing a new DD-15 Plus in San Diego in a few days. Delivery expected at month end. Still don't have the Treasures yet - they are apparently being sent directly from China, something new from Grant Fidelity. Not happy about this new procedure and probably wouldn't have ordered had I known this ahead of time - there's definitely something to be said for having an accountable person screen your tubes,especially if you are paying a premium for "A" graded tubes. Stay tuned....

fplanner2010 May 04, 2011 18:13

Seeking a bit more bass, I experimented last weekend with re-integrating my Velodyne DD-15 sub in with my system. To be brief - Holy COW!! I have the sub coming in at 33hz with a slope of 24. The change in sound is nothing short of amazing. This sub has finally been replaced by Velodyne in their line with the DD-15+ which is more user friendly, a bit bigger and a 39# magnet. While tempting, it is not a critical upgrade NOW. I have neither the time nor inclination towards experimenting at this point with the myriad of setting choices presented by the setup program of the Velo. If such an urge were to ever hit, it will be in winter when I have more time to devote to it and at that point I might upgrade to the DD-15+, which is designed to do a lot of auto-configuring without brain damage.

The 7's bass drivers have even more slam, both due to the sub plus the fact they are no longer having to drive anything below 33hz. Moral of the story - if you have speakers without a sub(s),in most cases you will probably benefit more than you could ever imagine by integrating a good quality, fast sub into your system. I had no idea how much additional low bass information I was missing - it has now been found! This was a real "AH-HAA" moment for me, so I thought I would pass it along to others who might be considering a sub for 2-channel. As always, YMMV...

I've also ordered several pair of Shuguang Treasure CV-181-Z black bottle tubes to replace the small driver tubes in my VAC amps. Its my first foray into anything resembling tube-rolling and I should hopefully be receiving them within the next several weeks. I've never heard them, but they come very highly recommended, so I am looking forward to their arrival.

The NWO-Master CD/SACD is mostly broken in now and sounds even better than I hoped it would, especially with the integration of the sub. The only downside is that with the warmer months coming up, I won't have as much indoor time to be listening to my system. Definitely a "problem" I can happily live with. :-)

fplanner2010 April 14, 2011 21:33

Update: Redbook breaking in nicely with the aid of an Isotek burn-in disc. CD side has the equivalent of about 200-250 hours. Not sure if there is a SACD burn-in disc around anywhere, or whether I've just got to put the hours on it. Also starting to itch for better/different speakers......... we'll see.....

fplanner2010 February 19, 2011 14:06

SACD also benefits from the asynchronus upsampling at 195KHz/32 bit. While I don't pretend to understand even a fraction of the engineering that went into this piece, I DO know what I'm hearing, which is quite nice, even at this very, very early stage.

There is also now a facility outside of Chicago that has done and will do repair work for APL, both in and out of warranty. I've talked to them to confirm this and they do lots of warranty work for the major brands, so they are real. This helped my decision to finally do the 1 Box ultimate APL NWO upgrade. So far, this seems to be a very wise decision :-)

fplanner2010 January 16, 2011 07:42

System edited: Added Esoteric/APL NWO-M to system. Totally unbroken-in, out of the box, big step beyond my 3 box Esoteric Transport/ Esoteric rubidium clock/APL prototype NWO-4.0 Super-DAC. Not really even close - voices and instruments have an even more palpable weight - as lifelike as I've ever heard, anywhere at any price. Pretty special, since I know its just going to get lots better as the different formats break-in. Won't be doing any critical listening for weeks, but it sure is fun to listen to NOW!!

fplanner2010 January 16, 2011 07:24

CES plans cancelled; still awaiting delivery of NWO-M. System sounds surprisingly excellent with my APL-modded Denon in the meantime - I guess this means I've finally achieved a pretty balanced system with no glaring "weak links".

Its a pleasure to listen to music for the music's sake, not trying to critically analyze what needs "improvement". I do hear weaknesses in the Denon compared to the Esoteric/DAC combination I had, but I'm pretty sure the new APL NWO-M will handily trump what I had. There have been some very strong reviews of the M, so I'm looking forward to finally having 1 in my system.

fplanner2010 January 01, 2011 21:13

Thanks for the kinds words Glen - I appreciate it.
I actually had Albert VS, Damon and another dozen people or so over during the RMAF here in Denver. We listened to my system for several hours with a variety of music, the common denominator being LOUD!! People seemed to enjoy the system and I received a number of nice compliments at that time.

There is only 1 more change that I am contemplating to put this system "over the top" for me and it concerns my digital front end. After his bugging me for years, I am finally going to let Alex Peychev combine my APL Super-DAC prototype with my Esoteric upgraded UX-1. This will yield an APL NWO-M, which at this time is as far as ALex is taking his digital front end. There are several people who already have this version and there is a review up with comments under Digital Audio Reviews on this site. Apparently what I have is at least 2 iterations behind what is now available, so I hope to have this transformation completed before x-mas. At that point, I am finished with upgrades for the forseeable future, I hope.

Going to be at CES in 3 weeks to see old friends and the latest toys, etc. Also plan on playing a little poker. :-)

fplanner2010 December 14, 2010 16:08

What a mighty system. Very much enjoyed reading the various comments, especially your warning on making sure of crossover settings. I have always enjoyed the VSA line of speakers. They are something special. Your VAC gear is just over the top. Happy listening.

glenfihi December 13, 2010 17:38

I'm guessing you are his dealer and that the 2 of you live in India?

fplanner2010 September 29, 2010 06:55

The speaker that 'Manjy' has is a Siltech Pantheon XXV - Serial Number 00-A & 00-B
The Amps are from Cadence - Cansya - 845 Tube.
Audio Research Ref - 3
Cary Cd/Sacd Pro

'bhagwan'

schwinnindia September 29, 2010 03:53

Manjy - those speakers look pretty impressive. Which ones do you have and where did you get them? Do you not live in the US?

fplanner2010 September 28, 2010 17:59

Hi,

Thanks for your response. I will speak to Alex about his superdac. My playback is now 100% PC based and I am using my Cary SACD 306 Pro as a DAC. I have heard the Scarlatti, Ayon, etc. but didnt quite like them so much.

The Siltech speakers are in a league off their own. I have not heard better speakers. Resolution, bass, warmth all blended in perfect measure. You have to hear them. Google them and read the 6moons report. Since they are making only a limited number, I'm not sure who has them in the US.

manjy September 28, 2010 08:50

Hi Manjy-
You have quite a system - I've never even seen, let alone heard, those speakers. I look forward to getting more info on them - strengths, composition, etc.

As far as the APL Super-DAC prototype I've got, I love it. It is NOT the one he has the picture of on the APL website, but the one he talks about under "news" as "cost-no-object". As an early prototype, it doesn't have a display, nor many inputs/outputs. What is DOES have is 20 2nd generation 32-bit AKM DAC chips per side connected in dual mono mode, a super low-jitter clock, as well as a transformer-coupled tube output stage featuring 2 vintage E182cc tubes.

I've heard probably 15 other DACs, including all the name-brands, although not in my system, but at CES 2010 and other shows. None has performed close enough to what I've got to interest me at all. The data retrieval is nothing short of amazing, while the musicality is also there in spades thanks to the Class A output stage and some of the other design features of the DAC.

What I have is NOT the final version of the Super-DAC, and from talking to Alex recently, he has made further improvements. The DAC APL is currently selling is solid-state and will give you SOME idea of what is possible and I'm sure will hold its own against anything anywhere near its price point.

What I have, however, is in another league entirely. I was hopeful for a finished version by RMAF, but that may not happen. I live in Denver, so if you're going to RMAF, try to find me and maybe we can arrange for you to hear my system.

Harve

fplanner2010 September 28, 2010 06:18

Hi,

What is your opinion of the APL DAC? Is this the same as the DAC-s they have listed on their website? Please let me know if you have compared it to any other Dac's too. Thanks

manjy September 28, 2010 01:34

UPDATE: Keeping the Synergistic Research Speaker Cells -

They are providing a bit better imaging and detail as well as tighter bass and a bit better lower-volume resolution. The presentation is also a little more organic. These are not all huge differences, but there is enough of an improvement that the system sounds better to my ears with them than without.

At first I had some problems getting them to work properly with my bi-wire speaker cables, but Eliott and Ted helped me get things sorted out. I really didn't think these speaker cells were going to improve my system - it was a pleasant surprise that they did.

fplanner2010 June 28, 2010 17:55

Preamp is great, Caps worked wonders, sound is sweet...

fplanner2010 June 19, 2010 21:34

I'm still "evaluating"... ;-) Leaning towards keeping. Definitely worth trying in your system.....

fplanner2010 June 11, 2010 05:35

Only one way to know for sure how they sound together Harve....send em' here! :-)

arthursmuck June 10, 2010 20:03

Greetings, Harve,

You're most welcome :-) The Dali MegaLine III is exceptional! Actually, I live in the San Diego area and had the terrific opportunity to accompany Albert Porter to Art's beautiful abode. Art's room and system conveys music exquisitely! Art and Albert make for delightful company :-)

I've only heard Art's system with the Powercell in the circuit...of course, I'm uncertain what impact might occur in its absence.

I hope you and Art favor one another with visits...it will be great fun!

Vbr,
Sam

c1ferrari June 10, 2010 18:12

Thank you Sam. I am honored by your compliment, and confess I'm a little jealous of your Dalis. Your system must sound great!!

It sounds like you live near Art S. - I have yet to hear his system and he mine, but we're working on it...... Many similarities, but some important differences.

I just put SR's speaker Cells into my system, more out of curiosity than anything else. Surprisingly, they are providing even better imaging and air around the instruments, although are also moving the soundstage back about 8 feet. I'm not sure if I'm going to keep them yet - they are almost like baby Powercells for your speakers. Since Art also got the SR Powercell, I would be curious how the speaker cells would sound in his system. If you talk to him before I do, you might mention this.

Thanks again for your kind words.

Harve

fplanner2010 June 09, 2010 20:59

Hello Fplanner2010,

What a fine system...I expect it has provided innumerable hours of sonic enjoyment :-) Congrats!

Best regards,
Sam

c1ferrari June 09, 2010 17:31

Glenfihi - Thank you very much. Its been a constant learning adventure as new products come out and different synergies reveal themselves. I will next be trying Synergistic Speaker Cells, not because I feel my system is lacking anything, but more out of a feeling of curiosity. That probably won't happen until the end of the month.

I have a very good SR dealer that has taken good care of me along this journey, as well as exceptional manufacturers like Kevin Hayes of VAC and Albert von Shweickert of VSA, as well as Alex Peychev of APL and the people at Esoteric(Mark and Carl). Most have become friends and all have contributed their time and energy towards helping my system get to where it is and for that I am extremely grateful. All have shown exemplary service both before and after "the sale", making the journey to this point a real pleasure.

It is all too easy to take this sort of service for granted, which is why I am taking the time here to publicly express my appreciation. Others who have been particularly helpful along the way include Rick Schultz of Virtual Dynamics, Carl M of Nola, Steve McCormack and David Elrod. There are a number of others, but these folks stand out,at least to me.

fplanner2010 May 04, 2010 17:02

Great system, enjoyed reading the commnets and seeing the pictures. Congrats on your journey to audio heaven.

glenfihi May 04, 2010 08:58

Caps have about 300 hours on them and the preamp about 375. The caps have yielded more extended highs and mids with more depth and body to them. The VAC Sig has gotten pretty astounding after break-in to this point. I have lots more low level detail and much better imaging than before, as well as a weight to the bass and low mids that was missing before (but I didn't realize it).

The noise floor is lower and the dynamics, both macro and micro, are to a level I've never heard before. At the risk of using an oft-coined phrase, I really am now hearing my CD collection for the first time. Ambient and spatial cues are now clearly present, (especially at lower listening levels where they were mostly absent before) and I am very easily becoming immersed in the music. I'm no longer critically listening for system weaknesses, because the music just won't let me. I never thought my living room could ever sound like this - its become incredibly satisfying, finally!!

fplanner2010 March 17, 2010 08:52