Audio Hobby Thoughts, Philosophy & System Description
Current Room Anchors - Room 1 and 2 active
Room 1 - Matrix 800's anchors - for creating that ..........Maxell Tape Effect.
Room 2 - (Adjacent to Room 1) - Quad 57 + two Dynaudio BM12s subs - Midrange reference
Room 3 - Acoustat Model 3 - Modded - upstairs - For imaging larger than life (literally speaking) - see last picture. Unfortunately is next to my wifes TV room. So it gets limited use.
Stored - B&W Electrostatic DM70c Continental - Wife calls them the washing machines. John Bowers called them his favorite speaker. Very interesting and very rare. Could anchor a room but they need special placement and lots of room. ESL portion needs to be 100% functional and at ear level or they will sound soft.
Room 2 is mostly digital, guests, and used for trialing used unplayed records before they make the queue for room 1. Room 1 has been called by my family as Dads Hole. I prefer panic room as it helped to raise my kids and stay married...so far.
Psychology Part
Music is critical to ones health and well being. I went through a couple stretches in life due to events without it and the results were not good. The goal for me to get lost in the music and have it transport me to that special place. Now whether you get there by a typical 2 channel home stereo with speakers, headphones, or other means is not important. Getting there is the important part.
Audiophile not.....
Have always been the type that if I frequent a room enough, a system usually ends up in there. My wife finally put an end to this, and allows me to do what I want in the full basement of our house.....so..... In this described virtual system, I have had Room A since 1994. Adjacent Room B is in the process of being finished, but I have been using it for listening for a few years now adding in room treatments as needed.
History
Like many others, have been at this audio hobby since I was about 13 when I was consciously aware of the gear versus the actual music relationship. I am now 55 and currently with two adjacent music rooms setup with different gear. Both rooms can do full orchestra symphonies with large dynamic swings. Getting Room B with the Quad 57's to do this was a challenge; but I was able to get it to work with the right amps and powered subs. The Quads require a very different room acoustic setup over the Matrix 800's in Room A.
I am a pure amateur, audiophile, music lover, past trombone player, and have never been part of the Audio Business as a manufacturer, dealer, distributor, or have any special interest relationships with any of these people. I consider myself a full time music lover, and part time audiophile; although I have friends that could argue this point. I have tried to upload pics and information here, that give a flavor of some of my audio journeys, and associated bouts of Audiophilia Nervosa. :^)
"Audio Heaven, is for Music Lovers - Audiophiles are never happy.
With that, in the real, authentic, Heaven; there is room, even for Audiophiles"
8^0
Living in the country
Having moved away from the city core in the 90's, I have found that audiophiles away from the cities, are in general, scare to find and or keep to themselves. Many of my audio friends are now remote, due to the distance between us; so only virtual communications are possible most of the time.
The negative aspects of Isolation aside; one good aspect of living in the country is the clean power and lack of noise and vibrations caused by traffic, trucks, etc...Once experienced and its effect on your listening, you become very aware of the multitude of audiophile products available as band aids, to cover, veil, but never eliminate these artifacts in densely populated areas.
I was born in the 60's so I grew up with Classic Rock, Beatles, etc... But I love all music, new music and Opera hits home with me. I played trombone in Jr and High school so the Bass Clef has a bias with me. Listen more now to the ladies crooning at me, Classical and Jazz with occasional Classical Rock; I think a well recorded full Orchestra Symphony with huge Dynamic swings has the most magic for me.
***** MAIN ROOM aka Panic Room, Dad's Hole, ....*****
I have had Room A since 1994. It has 3 dedicated lines 20, 20 , 15. This room is personal use. Room B is more for entertaining and spending time with friends.
Room A is much better insulated and isolated from my wife. As much as I would like to move the Matrix 800's to the larger Room B space to try them, it would probably just get me that much more trouble.
Room A and B are both located on a concrete poured floor. A has a an underpad and flat carpet on top. Spikes from gear stands and speakers are able to penetrate to the concrete with no problem ensuring a solid mechanical connection. The speakers are located 6 feet from the front wall with the room being 24 ft in length. Putting in the 800's over the 801's meant that some of the room treatments were able to be removed due to the 800's double woofers high and low. This is also one of the reasons I call them very room friendly.
1/4 inch 2 track machine. The three pictures attached. Top Left - known as two turntables. my machine being worked on Middle pic - 807 Top Right Pic. A picture of Roger Ginsley with a 48 track machine he is about to split into two 24 tracks. My Studer 807 is calibrated by him. He is also the one that makes the interconnects I use with it.
JC Verdier La Platine Vintage Granito Original Design
2012
http://www.jcverdier.com/ADSL/platineVintage.html
Just a delight to use. With its presentation, sends the message home that it is all amount the music. Effortless, seamless, but experience is needed is setting up the thread. A real Goldilocks scenario of the thread being too loose, too tight or just right. Different thread tensions alternate how the motor and platter work together and change the speed. The objective is to get the correct speed with as little effect from the motor. ....
Original design. Granito Model My version uses a motor only equipped for thread Granito base and solid aluminum billet armpod. The later newer motors are equipped now for belts too - but no one runs them this way that I know of. This decision was made imo to generate more sales as it is easier to setup. But imo the belt grip would play havoc with the motor / magnets marriage which was designed for thread. I would think that belt stretch and its physical changes with temp and humidity changes would also cause problems, and interfere with the natural braking action of the magnets. This is my opinion as mine is thread only. There is a greater learning curve involved with thread.
This is the only turntable I am aware of whose platter design includes both acceleration (inertia) and braking (natural forces from same pole magnets) to deal with the records behavior - going from soft to heavily modulated grooves. The motor design, like a marriage with the platter. Think of the childhood merry go rounds that once up to speed - even a little girl could keep them going. To understand how the motor and platter are like a marriage, one need only turn the motor off and the platter spins for 30 seconds with the thread attached. However cut the thread while the platter is turning, and the platter stops much quicker as the two magnets demonstrate their braking capability. Impressive to me is just the plain simplicity of design using physics to get the job done with a piece of string and magnets. I found it important in setup to have the thread positioned in a way that is the least intrusive on the platter; so as to allow the platter to not only do its job as designed; but to also provide the needed jolts as required from the motor to maintain speed stability.
In my opinion - you will know when you have set it up properly because you are able to turn the motor off and on and also deflect the thread with your finger - as the records plays - and not affect the music delivery to your ears. I base this when compared directly to 15 IPS Master Tape dubs. In testing for accuracy I run both simultaneously with one lagging 10 seconds behind the other and switch between the two - compensating for gain as tape is a high level signal. When the thread is setup in this fashion there is minimal stress put on it. The current silk thread I am using has recently passed the one year mark. Overall Big Sound from a small piece of thread.
Some facts Magnetic bearing design. Brass colored rings are big shielded permanent magnets; same magnet poles repelling each other. The result is "levitation" the space you see between them. No thrust bearing involved. A central spindle bathed in a special oil keeps them aligned. For me personally I did not know what TT bearing noise sounded like until I heard music on a TT without a physical bearing. The plinth is made of Granito. Granito is not real granite but a non-resonant material that looks and feels like granite. A limited edition model.
"Granito is a material composed by little pieces of marble of very different origin agglomerated inside a mold with cement. Machined and polished. The resonance of the plinth with its suspension is about 5Hz and it is well absorbed by the air cavities."
Mr. JC Verdier Note: Newer Platines are provided with a setup bearing. The manual is very clear on the setup bearing. It is just that - a setup tool only. COUNTERFEIT PLATINES Unfortunately there are non-authentic tables out there worldwide from 20 different counterfeiting makers. These tables are out there with people using them. If anyone is unaware of this, see the Platine Information on the JC Verdier website for more info.
The only advice I can give is when buying a Verdier Platine you should be careful to ensure it is a real Platine, especially if buying privately. If you already have one and have doubts, check with an authorized dealer or J.C. Verdier company in France to ensure it is authentic.
Custom Eminent Technology Model 2.5 for MC Carts
This is a custom build ET 2.5 Tonearm from Bruce Thigpen - A 19 PSI design.I am using the new Long I Beam. Weights are reduced by half and therefore the vertical inertia is higher - a goal of the design. The Aluminum Gooseneck was sourced from NZ. It was through Richard Krebs also an ET2 owner. I am using Single Shot WBT wiring, Aluminum mount plate. Magnesium armtube. Double Leaf Spring and damping trough. If you are an ET2 owner you know what I am talking about :^).... Advantages of the ET2 airbearing linear tracker tonearm - no VTF changes with VTA adjustment, no offset setup, antiskating and immunity to acoustic feedback, as it rides on film of air.
One shot wire. Run at 19 PSI. Damping trough with 1 cc of Oil. Lead weights at the very end of the I Beam.
VTA on the fly while the record plays and it doesn't change any parameters (VTF) like all other tonearms do. This is due to a patented VTA on the fly system. Have you ever noticed how with same thickness records....some can sound brighter, some bloated and some just right? When they press the records the different plants can have different standards. Records are then cut with varying angles.. even same thickness ones.
See ET2 Bass Management Below
Tonearm Wiring Loom - One shot WBT NextGen
2011 One shot wiring loom for the ET 2.5. WBT 0102 CU connectors. The design of the ET2 (2.5) allows for this wiring to be changed out in about 10 minutes. Silver and copper can be experimented with.
The PUMP ET2
Life Support for the ET2's. Timeter 3000 Medical Industrial Pump. The most important part of the ET2 arms setup. Industrial commercial grade medical pump. Its actually a patient respirator.
These have an hours counter and come up for sale cheaply on ebay. If you have space in your basement somewhere they are turnkey once set up.
I have tried large aquarium pumps, smaller medical pumps, compressors.
This Timeter Medical 50 psi pump has been customized to allow me to regulate air pressure coming out and send 19 psi to the ET2 tonearms. Another regulator with gauge at the arm allows me to accurately adjust for the PSI coming into the arm. Located in another room -cannot be heard in sound room when running.
The smoothness of air delivery is excellent. No resonance. The pump dumps/expels moisture like a car's AC. Have never seen a drop in the moisture collector; other than one incident when the pump outlet clogged with minerals from the moisture. I now soak the pump outlet in CLR for 2 hours every two months.
ET2 In Room Air Regulator & Filter
2nd Regulator and Filter on wall near the ET arm. Confirms and controls the 19 psi and also filters out moisture in line. Have never seen any moisture in this filter. This device lets me change the pressure going to the arm by just turning the top mounted knob. This regulator is mobile. It can be placed in my lap while the music is playing and pressure adjusted to hear how it affects the music delivery.
Audio Research DAC8
From a DAC only function perspective identical to the ARC REF DAC except the output stage is tubed on the REF. Interesting read. :^)
Owned many many years. Modded power supply box. Variable Gain for dealing with hot, and compressed source material - Digital and Analog. On the fly cartridge impedance loading. Used in ARC's hotrod mode. Direct output and bypass switch engaged. Amperex Bugle Boys.
Matrix 800
Unique one time all assault effort from B&W at a time when 2 channel was the focus. Smooth, musical yet still detailed. Room Friendly if you can believe it. Imagine 4 subs two high and two low pointed at you for 2 channel music. Each driver 2 woofer, mids, tweeter have their own crossover easily accessible from the back.
They were a 2 1/2 year study from Bowers & Wilkins under John Bowers (RIP). I have looked for a long time for a pair. The only time they become available are through owners going to a smaller condo (retiring or divorce).
All B&W 800 models that followed the Matrix series are the same only in model designation - 800. They are not a replacement or upgrade. They are a different build, design, objectives, sound. Post Matrix 800's are a smaller speaker system (require a sub for full range); they do have better WAF (more easily placed into a shared room with the wife)
800 matrix can be played at low and high levels with the right amp. 93db 2.83 volts/1m, Mine are Quad wired. They can be run on four separate amps if one desires as each driver has its own crossover.
Top and bottom woofers each excite a different set of waves. These waves cancel each other out. Thats the theory. My listening supports this. Smooth tight bass. It is quite something to experience since their size make you think they will over take the room. Also IMO each woofer works only half as much with four versus two for the desired SPL. All of this results in a very flexible listening position. All drivers are physically isolated with separate crossovers and Van Den Hul silver wiring from the factory. I run them with both tubes and Solid State. Krell and the modded Music Reference RM9.
Krell Amplifier Story My research found me talking with Dan D'Agostino who used matrix 800's as his reference speakers when he designed this era of Krell amps. Specifically the FPB series like my FPB600. On a dedicated 20 amp circuit with upgraded 20 amp power cord using Furutech Gold IEC.
RM9 Push Pull Tube Amp. Used to power Acoustat, 801, 800 speakers. WBT 0700 Connectors. KT88 output tubes. Hardwired for 4 ohm tap. Total Overhaul done April 2015
MATRIX 800 INSTALL
Installation
800 Series Bass Alignment Filter / Equalizer.
The graph shows the 801 matrix frequency response with and without the filter.
All 800 series B&W matrix speakers are an active design and are intended to be used with an equalizer by the designer (John Bowers) to achieve the best frequency response.
This attached graph was sent to me by B&W Europe years ago
It is the frequency plot for the 801 matrix "without" using the supplied Bass Alignment Filter. (not sure if it is 801 s2 or s3)
B&W England are the ones that drew the two dotted lines on the graph.
The 801 matrix speakers were designed to be used with the BAF. The speakers with BAF devices were shipped to original owners. But these devices became lost as speakers changed hands. They pop up on their own on ebay.
The two interesting parts.
Part 1
Not only does adding the BAF filter as designed give you a smoother response and allow the speaker to hit 20 hz. The BAF makes the 801 matrix speaker much more efficient. The ohm ratings can be seen on the right 8 - 6 - 4 - 2 ohms. The 801 matrix s2 and s3 are a very easy 6 ohm steady load with the active equalization provided by the BAF. This opens up amp choices.
Part 2
Audiophile opinions on the BAF device are kind of split. Not sure if its an even 50% like it, 50% don't like it, but you have the two camps. Why the difference? The room; its acoustic properties, and how the 801 (aka relationship destroyer) deals with it. There is a reason B&W no longer make the 801. You need a dedicated room. Its makes no business sense.
801 matrix owners today (there are many out there and some reading here), that could NOT make the BAF work with the speaker; or who never used it, or even heard of the BAF before; are taxing their amps way more to make bass with the 801.
************ SECOND ROOM ***********************
A backwards seven with the main section 20 -23. This room is the "top of the Seven". It is separated from the bottom portion of the Number 7 shape (12 x 24) by a heavy curtain. It is also adjacent to my other room of which the door is left open. The back of the room has the stairs that go upstairs. One of the pictures has me standing on the stairs. All this makes for a much bigger room as far as sound volume and space is concerned. An in progress dedicated listening space that accommodates different speaker types.
03/31/2011 Dynamic, ESL, Planar IMO - We listen to our rooms. The speakers in the rooms are like boats. They both represent freedom to me. A 12 foot aluminum boat is perfect for a small lake and your favourite person. But out on the ocean or a big body of water The water/boat analogy in this case is like your room and speakers. Water waves versus sound waves. There is no perfect boat and no perfect speaker. This is because all our rooms are different and the room is the big rock in this audiophile game. Speakers represent the last piece in the audio chain. Their sound represents everything in your audio chain especially the room, before it reaches your ears. Every piece will have an effect on what is heard. This IMO is why it is so important to have a good source. The last few years my speakers have remained intact and I have concentrated on improving the source components. Each time I improved the source my main speakers improved as well. This tells me they are not a bottleneck and I have not yet reached their limits.
Dynaudio Acoustics BM12s - Two of these in my Quad Room B .
Two of these in Room B - 18hz - 60 hz.
4th order Linkwitz- Riley crossovers have a really steep slope past 60 hz.
On paper this made them look like a really good match for the Quad 57's; but how does such a small box make 18 hz. They have class a/b amps are 4 ohms.
I brought them home and demoed them. Very Punchy, Clean and they go really low. A great match with the raised Wayne Picquet Quad 57's. They are placed under the speakers - see pic in my virtual system.
Quad 57 Wayne Picquet rebuild with Music Reference RM10 AMP
Quad ESL-57 - Wayne Picquet Panels Partnered with the amp that was designed for them - Music Reference RM10 by Roger Modjeski.
With certain music magic for me.
8/20/2012 These Quad 57 speakers were designed and put out before I was born. The parts inside which I have replaced like the EHT modules were stamped 1971. Fourteen years after they originally came out. The panels themselves are only a few years old. They were rebuilt by Wayne Piquet in Florida. The normal music presentation for stock Quad 57s is as if listening to music from the first row of a balcony. If using stock feet a 2 or 4 x 4 piece of wood or brick under the rear leg angling the speaker downwards toward you actually raises this image. This may be a more realistic presentation in your room.
Check out my review. http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/frr.pl?rspkr&1309018315&&&/Quad-57-
801 Active Monitors - Currently Stored
Currently Stored - "Winnie the Pooh" of speakers. Relationship Destroyer. Owned since 1994. Serious Sound Pressure Speaker can re-create an event in your room when positioned and driven properly. Mothers milk bass. During my time with them have used Solid State and Tube amps (Push Pull and OTL's). In comparison to the DM70 Electrostatic, If the 801 and DM70 were cowboys. The 801s are wearing black hats and the DM70 white ones.
801 Matrix S2 and S3 - Designed by John Bowers to be Active Monitors with use of the BAF and become a sixth-order Butterworth alignment. Without the high pass filter they are a vented fourth-order design, specifically in a Bessel alignment. "Fourth-order" is an engineering term that refers to all vented and passive-radiator speakers; sealed boxes are "second order."
From Stereophile (re: S2) "Higher in frequency, the response trend (averaged across a 30 degrees lateral window on the tweeter axis) is basically flat, but with a slight excess of energy in the presence region and a corresponding lack of energy in the top octave. All things being equal, this will make the speaker both a little too revealing of recorded detail and somewhat fussy when it comes to the quality of source and amplification components, just as LL noted in his auditioning comments."
Some of the changes. S3 used a different crossover than s2 - less component count. Better isolated mid and hf boards. Bass inductors with an iron dust core . Rotating midrange tweeter head assembly was permanently connected. (from 3 to 4 pin delivering separate ground signals to midrange and tweeter) Magnetic fluid cooling of the tweeter (like the 800 matrix) - the reason the apoc protection eliminated (circuits needed for this were also removed)
In nearfield very revealing of room setup, system components - SS and Tube, cabling, TT drive systems, poorly recorded music. They reveal all the flaws of the recording.
Depending on your audio hobby objectives this can be a good thing or a bad thing...
See picture of the Bass Alignment Filter.
B&W Electrostatic DM70 John Bowers / JansZen Hybrid
B&W DM70 Electrostatic Continental Hybrid Speaker Clockwork Orange Movie The late John Bowers (RIP) favorite speakers. JansZen ESL - 500hz and up. B&W Woofer - 500hz and down. Require a large room - elevated to ear level and a good distance from the front wall. Very refined midrange - muscular bass. Non-directional with a large sweetspot.
n]Designed in 1970. No cost or time constraints during the development. From what I can make out they were discontinued due to costs involved. Version One - Power handling 25 watts at all frequencies. Version Two - The later DM70 Improved, which looked identical, is suitable for amplifiers of 25-100w, but seems otherwise identical.
500hz crossover - ESL panel can not be overdriven and is nondirectional.
ESL Panel was provided by JansZen. Sensitivity is 17 watts into nominal impedance required to produce a sound level of 95 dB. at one metre at 400 Hz Double fuse protection C and CA versions.
Modded Acoustat Model 3 - Used In Shared Space Upstairs
Finally hooked up the Model 3's to the OTL's in a temporary fashion.
These are in our living area shared space Custom modded Model 3;s. They have rebuilt interfaces. Unique granite bases with integrated spikes that weigh 80 lbs. Burl Oak Veneer facing and the inside is filled with small sand bags.
Technics SP10 MKII with 2nd ET2 High Pressure Manifold
March 11, 2013 Update
Next version ? will replace the current black base plinth with a more aesthetic one.
Pet Project - Has taught me a lot about resonances and vibrations. SP10MKII Version Five Solid Stainless Steel Legs have threads at both ends and are bolted into the sp10 top plate as well as the solid plinth/platform. The armpod is bolted into the plinth. The plinth is then isolated by the AT-616 Pneumatic footers. 19 lb Solid Brass Pod 1 inch Diameter Solid Stainless Steel.
Previously I had the SP10 MKII in a heavy 7 layer plinth. Birch ply + one mdf layer. This SP10MKII came from a private studio.
This is the second ET2 I own and it is a high pressure manifold
Jean Nantais Custom turntable. Includes: 100 Pounds - Veneered - Two Tonearm Plinth Lenco L75 motor and top plate rebuilt to his standards. Reference model spindle, bearing thrust plate. Bonded Metacrylate mat Bearpaw footers. IEC outlet.
************ SOME NOTABLE MEMORIES **************************
For me some notable equipment. Currently stored or sold-indicated as such.
McAlister OTL 195
OTL195 There is a review contained in my system thread. In comparisons to good Solid State Class A and Push Pull amps they were like driving a 911 but you are limited to 1st gear when pushed. Very fast and punchy. But lack the bass that push pull deliver on. Get the bass right and everything else comes into place. These amps are designed around the needs of Acoustats. My Acoustats are in the shared room upstairs. I no longer own the OTL's.
Fidelity Research FR64s
Gimbal Pivot Arm. I found excellent build quality and a nicely implemented antiskate system. I also found a low frequency resonance that accentuated the bass. A warmer sounding tonearm. It was in my second room with the second ET2 not the ET 2.5. Whenever I started a session with the FR64s it was always nice. But curiosity would always prevail and I would switch over to the ET2. It would always remain there. This happened more times than I can remember. I am not a tonearm collector so it was sold to raise funds for another project. I am in agreement with what Cartridge designer Johnathan Carr had to say about it. http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1243274438&openusid&zzJcarr&4&5#Jcarr
Modded VPI's
Thread driven TNT and a JMW 12 using rollerblock jrs. SOLD
Acoustat Spectra 33
Acoustat Spectra 33
Eminent Technology LFT 8a
Set up in midfield - soundstage at both sides of the room. So the speaker shown is the left or the right one depending on side of room you are on. Excellent Magnetic Planar Hybrid Woofer Speaker. Very natural sounding but difficult to drive.
****************AUDIOPHILE FUN + ET 2 TONEARM MODS ************** ****
From here down are some inserts from past audiophile fun.
Also contained here is important information on the ET2, 2.5 tonearms as well as some of the mods I have done to them. If any questions on any of them let me know. No Holds Barred tonearm. User needs to be mechanically inclined and be willing to read ET2 manual instructions for proper setup of this tonearm. If bought on the used market a friend that is familiar with the tonearm for proper inspection of condition is important.
Goldilocks and the Three Turntables . See Sept 20, 2019 post comment below on my virtual system for findings / details.
Belt Drive (converted to thread) VPI TNT Idler - Jean Nantais Custom 100 Lb Direct Drive - SP10MKII When compared in the same room(nearfield), with same gear, tonearm and cartridge, same time, differences are revealed. Out into rooms on their own, this is not as noticeable as our ears deal with different room acoustics. ymmv
OTL VERSUS PUSH PULL Tube Amps
In room comparison.
Thread Drive Comparisons
2010 testing out different threads. Fabricland became a favorite place of mine.
ET 2 Tonearm Proper Bass Management - ATB
According to Bruce
My ears agree
ET 2.0 Manifold Before and After Cleaning
Pictures courtesty of a friend.
ET2 VTA Block Destroyed
Thigpen Genius showing VTA Block rack of teeth and worm gear. This one was abused. If you are buying a used one ensure the rack of teeth seen in the pic are uniform with no wear and baldspots. This is an indicator that the VTA block was misused and rigidly tightened stripping the teeth. The bolt was tightened to a point that shattered the CF.
ET 2.0 2.5 Tonearm VTA Block Torquing Procedure
VTA Block - Ensure each of the four bolts is torqued equally or the patented VTA system will be off. This procedures takes just minutes and should be done off table or you will throw your alignment off. Once bolts are torqued the manifold housing can be mounted to the pillar post and the rest of the setup completed.
ET 2.0, 2.5 Tonearm Magnesium versus Aluminum Armtubes
Mag - MC Cartridges Aluminum - MM Catridges The middle ground is the Carbon Fibre arm tube. MM and MC.
ET 2.0, 2.5 Custom Aluminum Joint - aka GOOSENECK
Black one is the stock one. Sourced from Richard Krebs
ET Tonearm Counterweight Bolt Mod
Get a longer counterweight bolt especially if you like to use heavier cartridges. The stock ET2 bolt is on the right. The longer bolt weighs a bit more, holds more lead weights and allows you to use less lead further out on the I Beam. This provides for the highest vertical mass which is really important with the ET2 as it has medium to high horizontal mass. a 4 - 1 horizontal to vertical ratio. In my system higher vertical mass means cleaner, less resonant, overall better bass. The brass rings are meant for balancing only. I prefer to use Blue Tack for this purpose.
Et2 Leaf Spring Mods Single, Double, Triple
General Cartridge Guideline
Single Leaf Spring - High compliance
Double - Medium Compliance
Triple - Low compliance
ET2 Pedestal Custom 3
Solid Brass Arm Pod
Koaltar Tweak
my pal 6 months, 79 lbs.
Kitty Tweak Bengal
a real sweetheart
RCA Victor Dog
I introduce Lucky. He is a mixed breed Jack Russell/Chihuahua mix breed. He will be acting as the Victor RCA dog,
The original Victor RCA dog.
He was named Nipper and was born in 1884 in Bristol, England, and died in September 1895. He was a mixed-breed dog and probably part Jack Russell Terrier, although some sources suggest that he was a Smooth Fox Terrier, or "part Bull Terrier". He was named Nipper because he would bite the backs of visitors' legs.
I'd love to hear the answer to Chris's question as well. My rack is in a different room than my speakers and also sits on concrete overlaid with padding and carpet. I place a glass of water on my platter and start jumping. Clear motion in the water. The vibration is greater/less depending on place I'm jumping (distance fixed). I bought a new rack: less vibration but still there. I can't tell whether vibration would make (is making) it to my speakers since they're in a different room. A wall shelf is the obvious potential solution but not really viable. Would taking out the carpet and letting the spikes of my rack sit directly on concrete be better?
I will tell you what I did but I also would like your opinion as an architect to explain something to me as well at the end of this. The solution involved moving the TT rack.
I live in a two story house with a full basement that has a poured cement floor. The house is built on dry sandy soil. My soundroom has been built on the poured slab in a corner of the basement. On top of the cement slab is an underpad and then the actual carpet. I turned everything on except for the TT platter/motor. Preamp muted and gain and level controls set to 0. Put LP onto the platter (TT off ) lowered stylus onto a stationary record. I unmuted the preamp and turned gain and level controls to what represents really high DB levels in my room. I started stomping down on the floor around my room really hard.
In certain areas I could hear the thumps through the speakers like the previous TT location. I was really surprised by how much feedback this stylus was picking up. I got to an area only a couple of feet away from the previous TT location that even jumping up and down produced no audible noise at all through the speakers. I set the TT up in this area. I repeated this exercise. All was still quiet.
So in the previous TT location this went mostly un-noticed with the AT616 footers. The SS Legs being just stainless steel exposed it and made me have to fix the root of the problem. Just my Opinion. I suppose if moving the Rack was not an option (family / shared room) then a better rack / isolation would be necessary ? Or going back to the AT616s. Am I making sense ?
My question is why does the poured concrete resonate so much, or does everything resonate and the stylus is just really sensitive. Does the sandy soil underneath the cement contribute to it as opposed to if it was more claylike ?
Hi Chris, It's great that you finally got the SS legs to work properly.
I resolved the issues I had earlier that were only occurring at over 100 db levels. I believe it is better to deal with structure feedback before it gets to the gear if possible. (i.e. the shelf below).
Can you tell us what the problems were and how you cured them? Cheers Henry
Hi Desmond Thanks for letting me know that the Roller Block Jrs. will support the weight. I will be trying them out in a couple of weeks. Based on what I heard during the armpod experiment, I am really looking forward to hearing what they sound like.
I know and respect the fact that you spent a lot of time tuning your own system. I bought the AT616's originally for the SP10, based on your and Rauls suggestions. They sound fantastic under there and I have posted my impressions about them many times as you know. But this hobby for me is a kind of therapy, so I am always looking to experiment, improve, push the envelope. Have you ever tried anything like these with your SP10?
My offer still stands to Banquo, Nikola or yourself. First one to take me up on it. I extend it to Raul as well if he sees this but he needs to first show me a picture of his armpod. :^)
All I ask is you cover the shipping to you.
I am very happy with the Stainless Steel Legs for the following reasons.
They become part of the SP10. They make it a whole unit.
They offer the SP10 the same rigidity and contact points as the armpod. They are both on spikes.
The actual SP10 is now about 5 lbs heavier.
The entire SP10 platter/motor unit is now free hanging and does not touch anything, yet is it grounded to the shelf better - IMO.
There is a blacker background with my ET 2.5.
The AT-616's dampen the Sp10 more than the SS legs. In my room there is more resolution with the SS legs, and tighter bass.
I resolved the issues I had earlier that were only occurring at over 100 db levels. I believe it is better to deal with structure feedback before it gets to the gear if possible. (i.e. the shelf below).
The cold fall weather came here on the weekend and kept me inside and got me curious yesterday. Curiosity killed the cat. I looked around and saw 4 different types of footers I can experiment with. Have some fun at no cost.
Before I posted this I called the guy to confirm he still has some stainless material left and can do this. I will eat the cost to me $50 to make one set. Just need any of you to cover the shipping. We sp10ers need to stick together. I just need to know how long to make them to work with your armpod. Remember the SP10 top plate is 1 inch. They take 2 minutes to screw on.
The rollers will support the weight. However, have you tried the AT616's directly under the SP10? I wonder if that wouldn't seem to offer a possible reduction in the number of points/layers for potential vibration and movement. As you know, I've gone for this option and am truly satisfied with it as 'the' way to go in this instance.
On the importance of the room: it is undoubtedly important. Yet without the equipment, and varying quality of systems and set ups, obviously no room sounds.
I changed out the 3 mapleshade heavy footers under the maple slab that supports the SP10 MkII and the Arm Pod, with the AT-616 footers today. I just happened to have four of them laying around :^).
I needed to use all four of them to ensure stability due to the weight involved but they are adjustable which is a bonus. They can support 15 kilograms each.
I am going to try them for a week or so and then switch in the rollerblock jrs for a listen. Does anyone know if the Jrs. will support over 80 lbs ?
Will report back all the differences after I am done.
Past experience has shown me that these tweaks are all subjective and very personal anyway. All our gear is different but even more important no one has the same room - which I feel is the biggest factor in audio.
Dgob - thx for inputting into the thread. Henry - When I built my own plinth a few years ago now I used 3 footers only because the fourth was not required. The weight alone rendered it unnecessary - I thought so anyway.
Proper Leveling with a linear tracking air-bearing arm is absolutely critical. So I have a very strong bias for anything that can help make this easier to set up and keep it level.
BTW - My Jean Nantais Lenco 75 has threaded holes for only 3 feet on the bottom of the plinth. He chose to screw Bear Claw Feet into this TT.
As I said and as you clarify, and as far as I can follow things, I think we do agree. And all I mean in using the term 'grounding' is the traditional sense of securing physical contact with (and thereby stability through) the ground (albeit that through the chain of spikes, platform - which is also potentially a ground - or whatever other links) - in distinction from the floatation offered through pneumatic or magnetic alternatives.
Hi Chris and Dgob, The stability of your SP10s on the 3 AT616 footers is not denied by me.....but these are not acting as 'legs' in the sense of the SS solid tubes now used by Chris. The AT footers are so large in diameter and stable in their own right that they form a virtual 'platform' on which the TT just 'rests'. No difference here between 3, 4 or 5 footers. Most of the footers and spikes mentioned by Chris and generally for sale, are designed for speakers or amplifiers whereby 3 are far easier to level (most turntables I know of come with their own 'feet').
If one has a problem with structure-borne feedback.....it is usually the ultra low frequencies causing actual movement within the supporting rack/shelves/equipment. I don't think reducing the turntable supports from 4 to 3 will make much difference under these conditions? I'm not sure what you mean by 'grounding' in this application Dgob. Cheers Henry
I agree (inevitably) with your assessment of the optimum balancing of a rectangle requiring four legs. However, the issue of the contact area (of say the AT616's) and method (in this case pneumatic suspension) are also critical issues when it comes to isolating a tt (in my case, the SP10). Wouldn't the merits and demerits around 'grounding' then become the critical issue, as it is with magnetic alternatives, rather than simply 'stability' (by which I assume that we are thinking about traditionally grounded options)?
Hi Henry your post gave me some interesting thoughts. Stability is very important. As an architect I am assuming that it weighs in as a very heavy bias with you as well and understandably so. Whether we are talking about a building, bridge, or even an audio rack or turntable for that matter. So I agree with you stability is very important. Stability for me means one thing though. Someone that lives where there are earthquakes would have another meaning of what stability is I assume. For me stability with this hobby is the component must be stable in normal everyday use and further not move or cause any problems in the longer term. Like our heavy armpods. I can also say the three AT 616s under the sp10mk II fit this description of stable as well based on my experience.
I brought up the benefit of leveling and resonances with 3 versus 4 legs. I did not mention stability. So the SP10 design is easy enough to try with 3 SS legs and experiment and see if it could be stable for my definition. Will test it out one day by adding a thread to hold a leg in the front center of the unit.
Based on my experience the commercial isolation devices I have used all seem to come in packages of three (Black Diamond Racing Cones, Symposium Roller Blocks, Mapleshade Heavy Foot Brass Cones, Bear Claw Feet. You did not mention resonances though? What are your thoughts on this ? For example if a three legged design could be stable based on my definition, does it not offer more benefits toward hindering resonances and the resulting structure feedback ? Cheers
Hi Chris, The only advantage of three legs is ease of leveling. Three legs is inherently less stable than four. Only a circular table or stool can be 'relatively' stable with three legs. Imagine a square or rectangular table with three legs? There is no structural device known to man that will make a square or rectangular object with three legs 'stable'? And stability is one of the prime requisites of a turntable. Look at the Micro Seiki turntables.....the SMEs....the Raven AC......all the Thorens Reference series etc. I recall with horror leaning over my Rega Planar 3 to adjust my tonearm only to find the turntable tipping over and losing it's footing entirely. With the dynamic forces of a rotating platter on the rectangular base of the SP10Mk2......... You certainly want the most stable, immovable platform possible :^) Cheers Henry
Hi Henry the SS legs may look convincing but they sound even more convincing to me especially up against the Jean Nantais Lenco. Same ET arms except one is a 2.5 and the other a 2.0. Same cartridge on both - Empire 4000 DIII Gold. Less is more for legs. The 4 versus 3 legs would mean less travel points for resonances same as the armpod but also easier to level and stay that way. Same with the AT-616 footers only three used. I also base my opinion on the leveling of the three versus four legs with the audio stands I have owned in the past. I have found as the seasons change here if you are using four legged stands you need to check the leveling a couple times of year, and adjust as the house floors shift a bit if you are on a suspended wood frame supported floor.
On your other question - I say structure feedback related based on the process of elimination. The way it sounded before and after I made the changes to only the rack below the TT. I added 3 very heavy maple shade brass cones below the 4 inch Mennonite Maple Slab. Everything else stayed the same. Improve on the isolation you then lessen the amount of structure feedback going into the component. This resulted in cleaner neutral sound. Its my story I am sticking to it. :^)
The SS legs are straight solid stainless steel and do not damp as well as the AT616s. But at the same if you get them on a platform that is isolated well they are going to give you more information from the grooves. At least they do in my room. Its a very mechanical hobby.
I need to qualify the above as well. This was originally happening with the SS legs at over 90 dbs average as registered on my meter sitting in my chair in nearfield. There were no issues below that as the structure feedback was contained I assume, because I could not hear the problem. But obviously it was there. Not till I took it to the next level of resolution did the problem become real for me and noticeable.
I played about 12 lps. Of these maybe four of them were very uncomfortable to listen to - due to the HF with the 801s. Also - My 801s have been set up in the room for a while now. Now with my ESLs they may have all sounded fine still. I say this because all ESLs I have owned I find - tend to roll off more with the HF. They are sweeter sounding. The 801s are a very hard core speaker and more revealing to the source and let you know better than my ESLs if an lp was recorded well or not.
Hi Banquo I have experimented with having my gear outside of the totally closed room the speakers were in. For some reason I felt very uncomfortable not being able to see the gear. At the 2nd location the rack is now in the other room - but it is open with the room the speakers are in. Moving it there solved the structure feedback/skipping issues I was having. A picture can be seen on my second system page. Cheers Chris
Hi Chris, Your photos with the SS legs on SP10 look very convincing. I'm not sure why you would want to reduce from 4 to 3?
In your 'Sound Pressure Test'.....you mention that your turntable/arm/cartridge are not affected by direct air-bound sound transmission but once that sound enter the building fabric, the structure-borne transmission does affect the set-up? I agree with you on this bu I was wondering how you went about determining this in your set-up?
Thanks for the comparison, C0517. More resolution than 616's? And at 1/10 the cost?! Sounds like my cup of tea. My set up is in a different room than my speakers so hopefully I don't suffer any of the set backs you initially had.
You can put the SP10 MK II on a two bricks with an armpod and get good sound. I know I have tried it. It is a testament to the quality component it is. A self contained platter motor unit with no detectable rumble. The sound I was getting from the AT616 footers using it in a nude fashion was excellent. But those footers are very rare and I recently set up a 2nd SP10 at another location. I thought what if I could get the motor hanging in the air and perch the unit on four points. Make the legs more rigid in nature than the AT616 pneumatic footers ? As the sp10 is very low profile I also needed more height for a taller arm pod I was planning . So I designed 5 inch tall, one inch diameter Stainless Steel (SS) legs. Once inch was the largest diameter that would fit and to ensure all legs were the same size.
The SS footers initially were good and bad. Good in that they presented more resolution on about 60% of my lps. Cymbals were clearer and their decay lasted longer, and bass was much tighter. Bad in that some albums now became too bright and unplayable. This was not the case with the AT616 footers. I thought about this. The Stainless Steels Legs are definitely more revealing than the AT-616 footers which definitely have more damping factor in my system. With the recent sound pressure tests I did, they were showing me I believed that I had to improve my rack isolation for my nearfield setup. My speakers are capable of pressurizing my medium sized room with their bass at only 95-100 db. Because of this the SS legs were much more sensitive to structure feedback than the AT-616s. I made changes to the TT rack for more isolation. I also added some oil in the threads that attached the footers to the sp10 top plate for damping. This paid off. All lps now sound great again.
These legs have added 5 lbs to the SP10 overall weight as well. I tried different footers with the SS legs. I settled on rigid brass cones like I use with the arm pod. With the SS legs now I believe the sp10 is no longer being run nude and is now in a minimum plinth as these legs attached rigidly to the top plate, thus leaving the motor/platter free hanging in the air.
I am very happy with the result and will have a second set made for my other SP10 MKII.
Future plans to add some threaded holes in the top plate to only need three SS legs. Technics offset the front left leg by design to allow for the on/off switch.
Hi Nikola I agree - The 2nd location threw a whole new dimension into this problem. I cant bring myself to sell any yet? And I am a sucker for a good deal.
You are a tonearm aficionado so am not surprised with picking out the ET 2.5. I am surprised though that you have never tried an air bearing linear tracker. Maybe because of the overhead constraints? (pumps, tubing, separate room required for the proper pump)
The ET 2.5 is the high maintenance spouse. If that Austrian king u mention chose her I would say he better have servants to set her up for him. It takes I think a stubborn person to own this arm. Space is also required for the special air supply system required to let her breath properly. Other wise she will sound congested on aquarium pumps, and can become edgy in temperament if not set up properly. Until u hear her optimized this way you dont know and it sounds fine. All is not lost. For those that endure and are able satisfy her requirements she will never become boring to live with. In fact you will miss her dearly if not around. Yes I am talking about a tonearm. :^) I personally believe the diamond in the rough here is the Acoustats ? Cheers Chris .
The comment of the Austrian king to some of Mozart's work was: 'to many notes'. My comment about your system(s): 'to many components'. I will need some time to choose from them. But my provisional choice is the ET 2.5 tonearm. I somehow never owned any linear tracker.
JN Lenco l75 and SP10 MKII/Armpod Impressions Update
I mounted my 2nd ET 2 arm on the Lenco. It is a ET 2.0 version not a 2.5 like the one on the brass armpod. It also does have an upgraded pump. This time a MEDO pump that provides for up to 10 psi at the arm. I regulate that down to 8-9 psi for the ET 2.0 arm.
The ET 2.5 uses an Empire 4000 DIII gold cartridge. I therefore bought a second Empire 4000 DIII Gold cartridge for the other ET arm to make this listening as close as possible.
After one month of waiting the Empire cartridge never showed up. :^(
I was very disappointed about this. I bought another Empire cartridge yesterday. Hoping to receive it soon to start the listening.
I want as much of a level playing field as possible before I provide impressions.
FWIW - I really like that Empire cartridge and for the price will just use it later when the other one finally needs replacing.
Hi Henry This is going to take some time with my summer vacation and family schedules. This Lenco I acquired is essentially the same table that took out Arthur Salvatores Forsell table but mine has the newer better spindle/bearing that is now part of the reference, but the reference table is now a different plinth still according to Jean. A smaller version than mine actually duked it out with a EMT 927 and came out on top in Athens, Greece.
I need to get used to its sound first and have plans on moving my 2nd ET to it as well. If I didnt like what I was hearing early on I would not be going to the trouble of doing this. I will really enjoy this.
The Nude SP10 MKII with the Brass Armpod IS the real deal. RIght now it has an advantage with the ET 2.5 at 19 psi versus the Dv505 on the Lenco to me. The ET has the Empire 4000 diii gold as well. I have tried the AT7V and now the Virtuoso on the Lenco. Ive have also listened to both arms on separate armpods using the SP10 as well. Alignment on the Dynavector is using the supplied Dynavector cartridge jig. I want this comparison to be as close as possible so the reason I want to mount the second ET arm on it and try to find a second Empire cartridge as well.
