milpai's system

by milpai on Clear DayTvcQuadParasoundCullen CablesGikBrickwallHerbie's AudioOppoPuresonicAurisbluMeProAcUDP-205D48RBackert LabsRhumba 1.3Cardas ParsecInakustikFurutechIsoAcousticsGaiaReferenzLS-2404 AIRAsusUSBStreamingNF-2404 AIRISO-puck miniAudioQuest Fog Lifters
From listening position
Back of room, listening position with control center
Audio Rack
ProAc Profile
MTM Configuration
Ribbon Tweeter
Parasound A21
Rhumba 1.3
Oppo UDP-205
Audio Server
Control Center
Eole interface
MonkeyMoteHD
Inakustik AC-3500P ON (blue)
Inakustik AC-3500P OFF (white)
Inakustik AC-3500P back
Power cable management
Bi-wire config
AIR Referenz
Matches the loudspeakers
Inakustik NF-2404 Air
USB cable
Cable Management
Inakustik 2502F power cord
Furutech connectors
Ceiling treatment
Puron filter
Gaia II
Gaia II closeup
AQ FogLifters

Description

April 2024
Moved the GIK Monster Bass traps from back wall to front of the room to control bass. This tightened the bass as well as opened up the mid-range and treble notes. Did not realize that the change would be so profound. Should have done this years ago.

Feb-2024
Added another Puron filter

Jan-2024
Added a Puron filter

Oct-2022
Added the Mazda 1960s grey plates 12AU7 to the Rhumba. They opened my eyes (and ears) as to why people are ready to pay so much for NOS tubes.

Aug-2022
Added Isoacoustic mini-pucks beneath the Inakustik and audio server.
Added a custom built audio server to replace the aging Asus laptop. I did not realize how much profound effect a dedicated server has on the quality of the sound.

Oct-2021
Added the ISO-puck mini under the Backert Labs Rhumba 1.3 and Oppo UDP-205.
Added Isoacoustic Carpet spikes for Gaia II.

Aug-2021
Added the AudioQuest Foglifters. Initially added for "looks" and cable dressing. But found that it adds finesse and delicacy to instruments in the music. My guess is the contact area of the cable from the original wooden raisers has reduced more than 90% and that might be the reason. I am happy.

July-2021
Added the GIK 242 ceiling panel that balanced the sound from the left speaker, that was getting missed due to the unavoidable soffit in the room. So much to learn from your own experience.

Dec-2020
Purchased the Fidelizer PRO. This has immensely changed the listening experience. Folks using a Windows machine should certainly give a shot to the free version. You have nothing to loose except 5 minutes. The best part of free version is it is an exe files that you run and not install. So if you don't like it, just delete the .exe.

Oct-2020
Upgraded Asus K52 with a Asus S400CA, 8GB RAM and 1TB SSD. Again, this is an older laptop repurposed for audio. Also added a NAS server and all audio files are on that server. Connection to this server is via ethernet and not wifi. Evaluating the free version of Fidelizer which makes very audible, positive change in my system.

Jul-2020
Repurposed an old laptop for streaming Spotify/Qobuz and also digital files. The laptop was upgraded from 3GB to 8GB RAM and from 250GB HDD to 1TB SSD for DSD and FLAC files. Installed Foobar2000 with Eole skin on the laptop to play the digital files. Using an old iPad mini 2 tablet with MonkeyMote to control this laptop remotely. Love this app!
Installed the Inakustik Reference High Speed USB between the laptop and Oppo 205, which is now used as a DAC.

Jun-2020
Added Inakustik NF-2404 XLRs between Oppo-Backert and Backert-Parasound.
Will try to find some time to do a mini review of these cables, if I find time. These cables pull you into the music way too much.

Mar-2020
Added Inakustik LS-2404 AIR biwire loudspeaker cables

Nov-2019
Added the IsoAcoustics Gaia II footers to the ProAcs

Jun-2019
Added the Inakustik AC-3500p power conditioner in the system.

Nov-2018
Replaced the Promitheus Reference C-core TVC with Backert Labs Rhumba 1.3 preamplifier

Jan-2018
Replaced the Quad 21L with the ProAc D48R in Ebony.

October-2017
Replaced the Teac CD-1000 SACD player with Oppo UDP-205 universal disc player.

September-2015
Replaced the Marantz SACD player with Teac CD-1000.

May-2015
New room finished in April. Room is 19 X 15 X 8. Three walls were already in place (concrete). Had the 4th wall built with double drywalls inside/outside and using GreenGlue. 2 dedicated 10gauge 20 amp lines for amps and electronics. Speakers are 4 feet from back wall and 3 feet from side wall. Placement of speakers, chair, panels etc are within 1/8th inch tolerance. Replaced Signal Cable power cables with Cullen Cables Crossover Series power cords, because I needed longer and flexible cables.

Feb-2015
Replaced Signal Cable Silver Resolution RCAs between Marantz and TVC with Clear Day's RCA cables.

Sep-2014
Replaced Signal Cable Silver Resolution XLR between TVC and amp with Clear Day's XLR cables.

Aug-2014
Replaced the Signal Cable Silver Resolution bi-wires with Clear Day Double Shotguns and jumpers between HF and LF speaker terminals.

04-Dec-2013:
Replaced original wooden footers under TVCs with Ebony footers. Simply unbelievable - what they did.

February 2012 - September 2012:
Been exited to have a dedicated room for this "passion". This word was emphasized by a female family friend. She was amazed by how passionately I could go on and on about this hobby. She likes classical music. Soon after we moved into our first home, I did post some questions on this forum about french doors. Those are in place now and I am happy with their looks. Per my wife (touch wood), I need to place something on the door panels for preventing reflections and maintaining privacy. Her support for me in this hobby has been outstanding and I would not have reached this far, if not for her. So, that treatment on the door will come sometimes later this year. This is a small room with 13.5'X12.5'X9' dimensions. I painted this room myself (first time, never did this before). The speakers are placed along the shorter wall. They are 40" from front wall and about 30" from side walls. They are about 7' apart with some toe-in. I sit slightly more than 7' away. All measurements are within 1/10" error. Finding the optimum position for speaker took me about 24 to 30 man hours. Though this is painful, the outcome of this exercise is mind-boggling. Got some granite to go between the floor and speakers. These are 18"X18"X1.5". This has tightened the bass and has provided necessary isolation from the wooden floor below. At the same time, added Herbie Audio Lab's Extra Thick Hush Puckies under the speaker spikes and the granite. This causes the speaker to not "ring" and provides stability to the speakers, because of the dBNeutralizer base. Since this is my own space, I added some treatments from GIK. Bryan Pape at GIK was very helpful and actually told me to go easy on the treatments. We started with 2 Tri-traps on the corners and 2 Monster Panels on the back wall directly behind the listening position. I liked the way the bass tightened up. Bryan suggested the 244 instead of 242s on the first reflection panels to take care of any phase issues as well. And that has turned pretty nice. Also got the terminations on the speaker wires changed from spades to BFA bananas. I am totally sold on the BFAs. Superb contact and fit. Some of you advised me to move the equipments from between the speakers. Though I could not do it 100%, what I did was, to disassemble the rack and use the shelfs on the floor directly. But the resulting change in the sound staging is simply fantastic. I never imagined that a rack placed between 2 speakers can mess the soundstage. With all this in place I did miss some "meat" in my system. But I thought it was the size of the room that was causing the nulls and there was probably nothing I could do. What finally brought "life" in my system was the new XLRs between the preamp (TVC) and the amp. The move from RCA to XLR in my system was nothing short of drastic. I have mentioned this on this site as well as a forum dedicated to Parasound Halo products. Apparently, there was not enough gain in my system and so the "meat" was missing on the bones, if you will. This was not so obvious in the previous apartment room, since it was small and the speakers used to be closer to the walls. In the near future, I would like to add 3 242 GIK panels on the front wall, behind the speakers. Will first experiment with the existing Monster Panels on the front wall.


March 2010:
The Parasound amp has changed my system profoundly. I cannot believe the transparency and expansiveness it has brought into my system. And it seems a very good match for my TVC as I set the TVC volume to lower levels than my previous amp.

April 2009: Added the Promitheus TVC, which took my system to an altogether different level. I did not imagine of such a performance from my system. Looking for a good power amp now. Want a power amp with high sensitivity and power - to match the TVC and also in case I upgrade my speakers at a later time.

August-2005
It took many listening sessions, forums, mags, etc to build this starter system. Was worth every minute spent for building it. Started with recommended components list - but ended with what my ears liked.
Read more...

Room Details

Dimensions: 19’ × 15’  Medium
Ceiling: 8’

Components Toggle details

    • ProAc Response D48R Loudspeakers
    Ebony with Ribbon tweeter.
    • Parasound A21
    250 watts RMS x 2, 20 Hz - 20 kHz,8Ω, Class AB Sensitivity: 1 V for 28.28 V
    • Backert Labs Rhumba 1.3
    Tube preamplifier with 2 X 12AU7 tubes
    • OPPO UDP-205
    Universal Disc player
    • Foobar Foobar2000
    PC Software - not for the weak at heart. But this has amazing features and comes with a lots of "skins". My favorite is the Eole.
    • MonkeyMote MonkeyMoteHD
    An iPad app for remote controlling Foobar2000 via wifi. Excellent interface.
    • Inakustik Reference Power Station AC-3500P
    Power Conditioner
    • Inakustik LS-2404 Air
    Bi-wire speaker cables
    • Inakustik NF-2404 Air
    XLR Cables
    • Inakustik Reference High Speed USB
    USB cable
    • Cardes Parsec
    4 feet co-axial cable
    • Inakustik 2502F
    Power Cord
    • Furutech FI-28(R)/FI-32(R)
    • Cullen Cables Crossover Series 10 AWG
    Amplifier Power Cord
    • Cullen Cables Crossover Series 12 AWG
    SACD player power cord
    • IsoAcoustics Gaia II
    Isolation footers for loudspeakers
    • IsoAcoustics Gaia II Carpet Spikes
    Carpet Spikes for the Gaia II
    • IsoAcoustics ISO-puck mini
    Footers under the preamp and DAC
    • AudioQuest Fog Lifters
    Cable dressers and system enhancers.
    • World Market Kendall Chair
    Very comfortable chair. Suede. No support directly behind the head which means sound is not distorted. I was searching for something like this for quite some time. I looked at some LC2 and LC3 knock-offs. But they were all leather that could reflect sound. Chocolate color which also matches the GIK panels.
    • GIK Acoustics Tri-Trap
    For front corners behind the speakers, in coffee color.
    • GIK Acoustics Monster Bass Trap
    Mounted on the wall behind listening seat.
    • GIK Acoustics 244 Bass Trap
    Absorption panel in Coffee color, mounted at first reflection points, that also takes care of phase related issues. Plan to get 2 more to go in the center of the room behind the speakers.
    • GIK Acoustics 242 broadband panel
    2' X 2' absorption panel
    • Porterhouse Audio Porter Ports
    • Custom build Audio Server Audio Server
    Custom built audio server for streaming FLAC/DSD files and also other streaming services. Based on Streacom FC10 Alpha chassis.
    • Puron
    Power filter
    • Apple iPad Gen 9
    iPad 9th generation for controlling Foobar2000 using MonkeyMote, Spotify and Oppo UDP-205 remote.

Comments 290

Sign in to comment
Owner
@astewart8944 ,
Thanks! I encourage that you try to find the "exact" position over a period of time, rather than doing it in one go. The reason for this is, when you position the speakers at a particular position and then listen for "an album or two" and then re-position, your get better hang of the positioning.
Try to be as precise as you can. You will be able to judge this when the center image "locks". This means that when you move your head from, say center to right or left, you will hear the vocals in the direction your ears/head is. But the vocals will not be as clearly defined as it is in the center of the sound stage. There will be some "hollowness" in the vocals when your head is moved to the right or to the left. But when your head is right in the middle facing the center of the soundstage (between the speakers), the vocal will be super focused, natural and life-like. That is the magic of stereo!

milpai

I love the lines in this room. Terrific! Your speakers are beautiful. I'm going through the process of exactly placing my speakers; tedious but enlightening.

astewart8944

Owner
@jmlab926 ,
It took close to 400+ hours for the ProAcs to be broken-in. The room treatments are indeed very helpful. I find that the ProAcs are so clean in their mid/high frequency range that a lot of stuff that I was not able to "judge" on the other speakers, I can do on these speakers. The vocals are so clean that you do not have to strain your ears to hear the wordings in the songs. It is as if you just came back from a ENT specialist after cleaning your ears.

Thank You for the kind words. When I visited Canada about 2 years back, I saw quite a few dealers in the Toronto area. You are lucky to live in such a big city and have access to great dealers who can help you set up your system.

milpai

hi how long does the proac take to be broken in ??   200hrs??

nice to hear that you like the big proac with room treatment

i really hope you could set up the system for me??

my ears are bad due to the dna // i could barely sing a few songs in church

i am in Toronto  canada

jmlab926

Owner
Wanted to update on the speakers. These are now fully broken-in. I continue to be amazed by what the ProAcs can do that the Quads could not. I should also take credit for the hours (more than 18+) of fine tuning that I had to do to get that center image lock and the disappearing act. But it is worthwhile. Once you arrive at the BEST positions for these loudspeakers in your room, it is pure bliss. I will admit this - while I love music, I am also fascinated by "how sounds are produced" - be that be a loudspeaker, an instrument or simply an object that produces sound. I strongly believe this is what differentiates an audiophile from a casual music lover. And I am not ashamed of this fact.

One thing I tried with these speakers was the track "Aeris by Eric Godoy". I wish I had found this track when I was at AXPONA last year. You can use this track to test the "low end" that a loudspeaker can produce. The ProAcs showed me what they can achieve that the Pioneer SP-FS-52S and SP-BS22-LR that I also own cannot do. The ProAcs shake the room and pressurize it like crazy. Both the floor standing and bookshelf Pioneer simply poop out on this track. Don't get me wrong - the Pioneers can do pop/rock, movie tracks, demo explosions, etc very well. But when it comes to the 20Hz range, they simply cannot produce it. The 2 additional bass traps also help tame the bass and produce nice tight bass instead of flabby one. Overall, very happy with the $$$$ spent on the pair of ProAcs. Even the Oppo is a great match for the system.
I keep wondering if I should upgrade my TVC to an active preamp. But when I listen to the "Aeris" track, I wonder what am I missing? Most likely - nothing.

milpai

Owner
Added 2 more Tri-Trap corners on the front wall this evening. Will not get serious time to evaluate till tomorrow. Later, will post latest pics with the traps completely re-oriented in the room.

milpai

Owner
@pdreher ,
Thank You. Yes, the ProAcs are nice loudspeakers. I try to post detailed pics such that people can actually see them up close. Many people like to go into the details - at least I like it that way. I don't have tube amps, but understand that ProAcs go very well with Tube amps.
I remember your system from way back (April 2012). You have a great system yourself. Those Harbeth 40.1s must be something special, since you came back to them. Last year I auditioned the Harbeths and got a chance to listen to the 40s. They sound amazing on vocals. But at that point, I had not decided to spend so much on the speakers. I have ordered one more pair of GIK tri-traps to cover the entire front corners. I see that you are also using GIK.

milpai

Owner
@twoleftears
Thank You for the kind words. I like the way my system sounds. I know that you have these ProAcs and the Spendor D9s on your shortlist for auditioning. Would love to hear your thoughts after auditioning the speakers.

milpai

Gorgeous speakers... I bet they'd sound great with an EL34 based tube amp!

pdreher

Congrats on the new set-up.  Looking, and I'm sure sounding, great.  Like the look of that green wall, too.  Very soothing.

twoleftears

Owner
Updated system pics with some good quality photos. I am happy with the current  speaker position. It gives me a great balance of imaging, bass and resolution. I have ordered 2 GIK Tri Traps with scatter plates so that the tri traps cover the corners from floor to ceiling on the front wall.
Next it to change the positions of the Monster Traps behind the seating position and adjust the 244s on the front wall.
The ProAcs continue to amaze me with how articulate they are. They clarity is astonishing while their mid-range is amazing. It is as if I have purchased new CDs all over again. Some of the bass on the Reference Recordings Tutti Orchestra is so phenomenal that it scared me. I am not used to this low bass and that is what caught me off guard.
Will post new pics when the new tri-traps are in place and when I change the positioning of other traps in the system. One thing - I do need a nicer wide angle lens, which does not cause distortion.

milpai

Owner
Delivered the Quads to their new owners locally today. It is kind of making me sad. The Quads were that good. The only think they lacked was the full bodied bass and the scale. They were champs at imaging.
Still trying various spots in the room for the ProAcs. Getting accustomed to their sound which is very coherent.

milpai

Owner
Updated with the pictures of the new loudspeakers. These are pretty low rez. Will soon update with some hi-rez pictures and replace the old Quad 21L pics.
Anyone wants a deal on the Quads?

milpai

mi


understood / I was joking

jm

jmlab926

Owner
JM,
I am not saying that the difference in sound reproduction is 10X improvement. I think that is completely dependent on how much you "value" the upgrade. For me, I was looking for a loudspeaker that I plan to keep for a long time. The ProAcs are certainly that pedigree. They are showing me what a real full-range loudspeaker brings to the table, at a price.

milpai

hi are you saying that the difference is 10 to1 according to the price


I guess it is at least 5 times better


regards  JM

jmlab926

Owner
@jmlab926,
The Proacs are $12k, while the Quads were $1.3k.
I still love the way the Quads made music. I am sure you enjoy your Quads.

milpai

hello how is the expensive proac as compared to quad 21L??


I am still using the quad 22L with a Mimetism 15.2


norm

jmlab926

Owner
I hope so too. I am told that I will get them in 2 weeks. How did you do the breakin on your loudspeaker gsmith5? I plan to leave them on during the night, playing at moderate volumes, since the system is in the basement, or wheneer we are not at home.

milpai

I’m sure you will like Proac D48R, I have Proac D30R in a smaller room and they have great mid range. They do take some breakin time ~ 500 hours.

gsmith5

Owner
Replaced the Teac CD-1000 with Oppo UDP-205. Is this a giant killer? I don't know. But what I know is that it has extended frequencies at both end of the sound spectrum compared to my previous players. The bass is well defined and has definition. I had set the player on "repeat" play for about 100 hours and I like what I hear.
Also decided on the new loudspeakers. They are on order. They would be the ProAc D48R in Ebony. Will receive them by end of November or start of December.

milpai

Owner
Oppo UDP-205 on the way. I am hoping that this is a good improvement over the Teac CD-1000. But honestly, the Teac is a really good player. The Teac feels slight less voluptuous compared to the Marantz SA-8260 that I had before that. But no complaints on the musicality or definition.
Also hoping to get my new loudspeakers by end of November.

milpai

Owner
Hi Aball,
Yes, I am very critical about my loudspeaker placement. And I ave to thank the communities on Audiogon. AudioAsylum, Audiocircle, etc to make me aware of the room/loudspeaker/treatment situation. It makes a HUGE difference. I have followed your system, when you had all the older posts that were simply wiped out one day. You and a couple of others were discussing on how you went out placing your loudspeakers. It is a painful task, but the rewards far outweigh the pain.
The dual volume control are actually symmetric. If you change volume by 1 position on the right, you do the same for the left as well. When the TVC is brand new, you start at 0 and move up 12 positions on the right channel. Then you do the same for the left channel. Then listen. If the volume is low/high, then move up/down further more on both the units. The benefit is, if for some reason you feel the left channel is louder on a recording than the right, then you simply dial the right 1 notch up, and you have a great balance. I have 24 steps and generally listen at about position 13 to 14. This is because my loudspeakers are 88db at 6 ohms. Hence looking for a speaker that is about 9db with a nominal impedance of 8 ohms. The Music First should provide you with enough steps and quite some gain in your wonderful system.
More details on my TVC is here:
http://www.promitheusaudio.com/Ref_c-core/index.htm

BTW, let no one tell you that Bass or Treble is truncated with a TVC. Plese experience it in your system. Looking at your system, I am sure that your system is more TVC friendly than mine. If I am happy with a TVC in mine, you will be thrilled with a TVC in your system.

milpai

Hi Milpai

It's really nice to see someone else who believes in finding the perfect room/speaker relationship.  It's amazing to me how many people have fancy speakers crammed in a corner, up against a back wall, or right next to furniture.  They will never know how good their stereo can sound!  The biggest improvement I've ever gotten was from spending lots of time finding the perfect speaker placement.  It's totally free, and immensely gratifying.

Do you find it convenient having dual volume controls?  I've been tempted to get a Lamm preamp but the two knobs would bug me perhaps.  I actually don't like remotes, so I'm not looking for the easiest solutions, but it gives me pause.  Yours have 24 steps?  How far around do you usually turn the knobs?  My speakers require quite fine steps at the bottom end.  Thanks for any info.
Arthur

aball

Milpai - yes plenty of bass from the TEAC but that also took a long time to fully develop.  As someone on another unrelated A'gon thread said, "The bass is the last thing to show up." or words to that effect.

FWIW - funny that JM mentions the HT Pro-Silway II.  Just got a balanced pair (used) to run between my DAC and preamp.  Very pleased with it.  Nicely detailed but not at all harsh.  

From the TEAC to preamp am running the Cardas 300B Microtwin for single-ended output.  When able to run balanced (preferred), using a Cabledyne Reference Copper XLR IC.  This is a good match for the TEAC in my opinion & system.

ghosthouse

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