Deaf_in_left_eye, I think that there is no question that room acoustic treatments would be a MAJOR improvement in your room. The Real Traps are the 'real deal'..:0) in this regard.
I think that toe-in can be important with the GH's, especially if you are plagued with side wall reflections. In my room, that's not really the problem and I actually run my GH's dead straight on with zero toe-in. I think the trick with the GH's and frankly most speakers is to get them as far from the rear wall as possible and also away from the side walls enough to allow as wide a stage as possible.
The Mondo Traps in my room are greatly helping in the precision of placement of instruments on the stage and in helping increase the perceived silence between notes.
Nonetheless, I still am of the opinion that your system's front end is its weakest link. Any improvement here will bring you great rewards at the speaker end.

daveyf November 17, 2010 03:42

Noticeable difference with the traps?

I just toed mine in further toward me, and they sound noticeably richer, fuller. I think I was probably getting more reflections off side walls before, and the extra toe-in reduced that a lot, making them more near-field. That tells me traps would be helpful in my environment I think.

deaf_in_left_eye November 16, 2010 17:16

System edited: Real Traps Mondo Traps added to system

daveyf November 16, 2010 06:55

I've still got until the 28th on my Guarneri trial. I've been talking with some other G owners on the thread: "Integrated amp for my Sonus Faber Guarneri" if you'd like to take a look or join in. I really admire your system and appreciate your input.

deaf_in_left_eye November 15, 2010 22:53

Deaf_in_left_eye. I listen to a lot of jazz and some rock. I have a fairly extensive Blue Note collection that i listen to along with several good re-issues.
The GH's will not go very low and do not reproduce well the likes of an
organ. However, they will drop down to appx. 50Hz and maybe a little more in most rooms. If you want headbanging rock with loud levels, then these are absolutely NOT the speakers for you.
OTOH, I think that with the right gear, the GH's will show their stuff and you most likely will be very happy.
I suggested analog as a way to go, since a reasonably inexpensive analog rig can get you much farther than an inexpensive digital rig. The source is the most important aspect in our hobby, IMHO. If you loose information there, you cannot regain elsewhere. So, with that in mind, another suggestion would be to sell something that would allow you to upgrade just your source.
If you only want to remain in digital, then I would suggest looking at a used stand alone DAC and Transport or possibly if budget allows an Ayre or maybe Bryston CD player.
I am sure your amp/preamp isn't really up to the job either, however, the front end is currently your weakest link and I think you could upgrade the amp/preamp when funds become available. In the meantime, you would be enjoying your GH's a lot more.

daveyf November 10, 2010 17:10

Thanks for the suggestions, Davey, I also feel it a shame to let go of these, which are very rare indeed in Japan, but while I believe they would be unbeatable for small group classical, actually it is difficult for me to imagine the GHs sounding very good in deep bass and also in other genres such as jazz, rock, and soul, areas where the B&Ws and Yamahas excel. Do you frequently listen to such genres on your GH system?

Also, because I am in Japan, buying/trading around A'gon is not so viable an option. Here, the best I can find in used eqpt always involves losing more than 10% of original cost for a 30-day home trial. The GHs were an odd, sudden impulse buy, and way beyond a reasonable purchase level for me. I already risked and bought a McIntosh amp to try them with, based on several A'gon recommendations, but that didn't seem to do the trick, at least not with my iMac/DAC as source. It does seem an awful big gamble to swap out half of my gear without being sure I will really like the result better. Going complete analog to vinyl is also not an option for me.

I still have over two weeks left on my trial with the GHs to think about it, but I won't be able to try an ARC DM70 in that time unless one magically and suddenly shows-up here in time, and certainly won't have time or funds to test other amps at home.

deaf_in_left_eye November 10, 2010 10:18

Deaf_in_left_eye. It seems a shame to have to let go of the GH's. It's clear you are a music lover and would truly enjoy what the GH's are capable of.
Perhaps you might want to, shall we say, re-align your existing system; by that I am thinking that you could sell your B&W's and your Yamaha's, along with your other gear and start over with the GH's..
I would then suggest a simple analog set-up, with a decent tube integrated amp, along with some inexpensive but good cabling that could bring you a long way to nirvana,
The A'gon is a very good place to find gently used gear that will stretch your budget a long way. As an example, I picked up my ARC D70Mk2 gently used on the 'Gon; which has allowed me to put a great tube amp into my system for very little money.
I'm sure that there are other members that post here that would be happy to assist you as well in your system build. That is another great thing about the A'gon site, IMHO.
Just a thought....:0)

daveyf November 10, 2010 07:57

Hello Davey
Thanks for your input. I suspected that my gear might be too "low end" to do justice for the Guarneris. Unfortunately, I might have to let go of these beautiful speakers, as I do not have the budget or time to mate them properly. It seems they are wasted on me, and could be playing beautifully for someone else who has the means.
Thanks again for sharing your great system with us, and your thoughts on mine with me.

deaf_in_left_eye November 09, 2010 13:01

Deaf_in_left_eye. I think that you are NOT hearing the GH's anywhere near what they can do..:0(
I suspect that your room with the plexiglass is part of the problem. OTOH, I'm afraid that your ancillary gear is nowhere near what the GH's need. The front end is part of the problem, toslink is not IMHO even hi-end. I still don't know what preamp you are using or cabling etc. However, I think it very safe to say that what you are hearing through the GH's is the true sound of the rest of gear along with a bad interaction with your room. Like I said before, the GH's are highly resolving and will spotlight faults upstream and with the room.
When i rolled in my Nordost speaker cable in place of my Highwire cable, the speed and higher resolution of the Nordost was immediately noticeable. The GH's are so good that even differences in cabling are highly obvious.

daveyf November 09, 2010 02:34

I never heard a Sonus Faber I did not like

vernneal November 09, 2010 00:54

I'm feeding mostly flac files from an iMac via Toslink to an iDecco DAC, then to the preamp and amp and to the speakers. The room is very small, but with sliding plexiglass doors on 3 sides, so from the perspective of bass it seems like a bigger room, but there might be problems with high frequency reflections. The Guarneris are spaced about 2 meters apart, which is abut max for this room. I have other speakers in this room, and all work fine. The Guarneris just don't stand out as sounding a lot better.

I tried them with the same equipment in a larger room that has no such potential reflection problems, and they also sound sort of above-average, though they do image amazingly well.

deaf_in_left_eye November 08, 2010 22:31

Deaf... Can you tell me what other equipment you are using with the GH's?
What is your room size and how are you positioning the GH's?
I am not familiar with the Luxman or with the Mac pieces that you own.. Are they both ss amps?
The GH's are VERY dependent on what is being fed to them upstream; any weak links there will be highly magnified by the GH's.

daveyf November 08, 2010 17:01

Hey Davey! My beautiful Guarneris just aren't knocking my socks off, so I think something is wrong.

They were just awful with a classic Luxman L-507 50 Wpc amp, as well as with a 55 Wpc class A Luxman L-550, so now I'm running them with a McIntosh MA6800 (150 W/channel), and they completely excel only in a certain narrow range, that of classical strings and horns, for example the Albinoni adagios from oboe concerti, Rachmaninoff's Vocalize, or Samuel Barber's Adagio for Strings. The Guarneris bring tears to my eyes with those sorts of music. Other genres, however, sound much better through my simple B&W 805s (jazz, rock, soul) or old Yamaha NS-1000X (big orchestras, voices, lower-register strings, saxophones, world music, etc).

Do you think the 150 Wpc from the Mac is still far underpowered, in which case I should throw more power at them, or are these speakers really intended for very specialized users who love these genres over all others?

I've got less than 3 weeks left of trial time on these, a trial that is costing about US$1000 just to see if I can make them work in my home (I'm doing ok, but not rich - just a uni prof).

Such classy speakers, a real treasure of workmanship, and really wonderful sound in that small genre in my home so far. I really hope I can make them work over a wider range and keep them.

With these I feel sort of like a mediocre violinist who's been given a Stradivarius, feeling guilty that these belong in more capable hands.

deaf_in_left_eye November 07, 2010 15:05

Deaf_in_left_eye, Great choice in speakers..:0)
You might want to try an ARC D70 if you can get your hands on one...
Mine has so far been very reliable and sounds sublime in this pairing. ( SF GH's and the D70mk2)However, I do think that the choice of tubes is very important in the D70.
The Winged SED 6550's(in a quad set) are a must and a good driver tube is also important.
Unless you can source good GE 6550's ( which is very difficult and pricey here in the US) then anything else besides the SED is asking for trouble, IMHO.
The tube set up and the biasing needs to be done by a tech that preferably has a little ARC knowledge.
But as I said, once this is done, everything should be fine.
At the moment I am now working with room acoustic treatments, while I was always a little skeptical about these in the past ( due to a number of systems that I have heard that were IMHO worse than before treatment) I am beginning to see that this is the way to go; if you really want the GH's to go to the next level.
I will report back later as to my findings.

daveyf November 02, 2010 05:59

Hi Daveyf I just got a beautiful pair of SF GH's yesterday. These are very rare here in Japan and I feel like I've found some hidden treasure. I've been reading your posts all over Agon regarding Guarneris and have been learning a lot from them. Thank you for that. I just discovered your setup here and am very happy to see it all in detail. A very enviable system. My next step will be to find a compatible amp for mine, but have to deal with a wife who thinks the Guarneris aren't special (because she has only heard them since yesterday and with my two inadequate amps). I hope to find an ARC D70 for a listen, but read someone had loads of problems with tubes burning out and taking circuits with them. I hope his was just a quirky one and that yours and most don't have such problems. Besides my lower-powered Luxmans at home, so far I've only heard mine with Goldmund MM ESS 27 pre and SIS 82 amp, Krell KSL-2 with Goldmund SIS 82 amp, and briefly with a McIntosh pre and MC2500 amp. Of these, the McIntosh/SF GH combo blew me away!
I'll be revisiting this page sometimes for more info. Thanks for posting your great system!

deaf_in_left_eye October 30, 2010 17:10

Hi Fernando, the ARC is fully operational..:0) I finally replaced all the tubes and ended up with SED 6550's in the power section, JJ 6922's and GE NOS 6FQ7's as the drivers.
After about an hour of warm up, the ARC/SF GH combo produced some of the best sound I have ever had in my listening room. Awesome imaging with pinpoint accuracy, airy and extended highs...Sara K's voice was there in the room!
What surprised me the most though, was that the bass was as good or even better than my Jeff Rowland model 8!
The CAT SL1 ( with my rolled in tubes) and the ARC D70Mk2 seemed to be a match made in heaven....
I now remember why so many prefer tubes to ss.... This ARC is something else!

daveyf June 18, 2010 04:06

System edited: Turns out my ARC D70 was modded to a Mk 11 version. The prior owner had forgotten and ARC just confirmed. Re-tubing with SED 6550's and NOS GE 6FQ7's. Not up yet.

daveyf June 10, 2010 06:21

OOPs, One of these days, I will figure out how to edit the post after it has been uploaded.Assuming, of course ,that this is possible on this site!.. should read SF GH's..

daveyf May 31, 2010 21:37

System edited: The Nordost Red Dawn 11 bi-wire speaker cables work wanders with the SG GH's.

daveyf May 31, 2010 21:33

Hi Dave: I have read somewhere that ARC and Guarneri's are two excelent combinations - please post your findings.

I am still sticked (and happy) with the Lamm/MR combo - please do try a sub in your system runing the Guarneris full - you might like it.

Regards,

flg2001 April 18, 2010 14:38

System edited: ARC D-70 amp added as a tube back-up. Not yet running.

daveyf April 12, 2010 05:51

Fernando, Siltech is on my short list. Anyone have any other suggestions?

daveyf March 07, 2010 02:44

Dave - you know that I am a Siltech fan, I got good pticing from a dealer in nyc that has somo good nos, drop me a line if you like.

flg2001 February 17, 2010 23:48

Well I am about to change my power cord for the Rowland, does anyone have any suggestions? ( Please remember that the amp has a choke power supply).
Also, needs to have a 20 amp connection.

daveyf February 17, 2010 05:26

Actually what I did was to go out of the Blue-Ray player thru the coax out (Siltech) to the Reimyo DAC for my Video setup (still 2 channel) since the AppleTV that I am using as main digital source is using a Toslink cable.

flg2001 November 25, 2009 18:31