Dev, thanks for the info on BM-8, yes, that definitely will fit with my budget. I do have Black Night battery controller already. I have talked with EBM quite a bit about all sorts of things including TW in the past. I think I will have to wait to hear back from TW about what they think regarding 3 AC motors vs Black Night Motors. My dealer mentioned that it may be possible to get Black Night motors. Once I know what size platform I might need then it is time to figure out the payload.
I already have some pictures of your set up when we corresponded about Reed arms many moon ago. I completely forgotten that you used Minus K platform so I went back to see the pictures and see how you set your table up :)
yes it can be a little confusing at first but really doesn't need to be see below info. copied and pasted from Minus K site.
You will want to go with a BM-8 unit not the BM-6 you mention so depending on what you add in weight will depend on which unit you go with.
Model Payload Range * Price**
125BM-8 90 - 130 lb $2,805
150BM-8 125 - 155 lb $2,860
Also I would recommend you chat with member Glai http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?vaslt&1256301563&read&keyw&zztw acustic
He originally had a AC1 which was placed upon his Minus K BM-8, he then placed a wood pce ontop.
I got my AC3 and he asked me to provide my findings in relation to only having one motor vs three, so I did this. He now has three motors and is still using the same Minus K unit, the additional motors tuck in nicely.
Now if you are wanting to go with the Black Knight motor, well that's a whole different story. Mainly due to it's size and placement, off to the one side and the belt is longer so the unit is further away. Doing this you will just need a larger platform that you place upon your Minus K hence me using a pce of 1/2" aluminum. I could have used a other product also.
Send me a personal PM and I will provide some pics, both original with my AC3 on the Minus K and current my BK on such and what I did.
I would suggest you chat with member Ebm, he has a AC1 and is using the battery controller and feet from Black Knight I believe.
Suteetat, You raise an interesting issue. I have always thought that maintaining a constant distance from motor pulley to planner is essential for speed stability. You don't want them to move, even slightly, relative to each other. That would effect the belt tension and thus speed.
You may want to post this question in the Analog forum.
If you can't find a Minus K platform that works or is cheap enough, you could try a Vibraplane with a compressor (active) or without (passive), but the passive one requires minimum periodic adjustments.
Dev, it is a bit confusing right now about what I should get. Certainly using additional platform would work but weight is certainly a problem. I think the standard Minus K BM-6 can take up to 100 Lb which does not give much room for an extra platform. I think Raven AC by itself is already a good 80 odd lbs by my guess. Look like I would have to go to BM-1 if I want something that can handle 150 lbs or more which would double the price! Also now I am using AC-1 but definitely want to eventually upgrade to either AC-3 or perhaps to Black Night motor so I will need to leave enough room for either option which would mean bigger, heavier platform. I wonder if anyone has any idea about the advantage/disadvantage of 3 motors in separate enclosure vs 3 motors in one enclosure? I talked to my local dealer and he is trying to get some information from TW about this.
Suteetat, you can try all of those types for the platform to see which one you like but just ensure you pay attention to the actual pay load of the unit, ensuring not going over the max.
Peterayer, adding any of the isolation methods you mention offer benifits as you have found out first hand. My problem with allot of air types while looking was the variables ones has to contend with, if the air is gradually dissipating then really your are not at all times set-up for maximum performance.
I spoke with the guys at Minus K prior to getting mine and becuase of the design the recommendation was to only use one unit.
www.minusk.com
I have not tried two and compared so I can not comment.
Dev, thanks for the advise on using another platform on top of Minus K. That certainly will make life a bit easier (and cheaper :) ). I wonder what would be an ideal platform on top of Minus K. Aluminium, granite, maple, slate? I have some slate and granite slabs that I experimented with in the past but there are so many different kinds. Unfortunately the kind of slate I could get that could be polished did not sound as good as granite at least when I tried it on my amps.
Peter, my controller is on a separate shelf from my turntable but I have not really tried anything much as far as vibration control but I will experiment on that and see what happen.
I envy your Minus K solutions. Congratulations. I would by one if I could afford it. I have recently discovered the benefits of isolation with my turntable. I have a Vibraplane under my SME 10 table and just bought an inexpensive Townshend Seismic Sink for under the motor controller. I have found that separately isolating the controller from the table is very effective. The motor itself should be on the same platform as the table for stable positioning reasons, but the controller benefits from its own separate isolation. I agree with you that having to manually maintain constant air pressure is inconvenient.
Has either of you experimented with this separate motor controller isolation?
my Minus K is not the standard size. It was actually the one that Jeff had commissioned specifically for an AC3, I actually owned a AC3 prior to getting the Black Knight. Even being as large as it was I still had to place another platform "custom larger pce of 1/2" aluminum" on top so my BK and motor would fit properly.
You could do the same with the one you mentioned, I know of another member Glai who has done this and uses a large pce of wood ontop. You can't go wrong with the Minus K, set-it and forget it product. No pumps. air etc. plugin to contend with.
Thx for the info. on the Stealth, I will down the road do a comparision. Wish I used rca's because they are allot less exspensive than XLR connection. Friggen cables have gotten out of hand in relation to costs.
Audioblazer, thanks for the information. I was looking into slate initially as well but locally that seems quite difficult to get a thick piece of slate and not many places can polish them until they are smooth and flat. My local TW Acustic also suggest Minus K Platform or AudiAV which makes platform especially for TW Acustic.
Dev, you mentioned a custom made Minus K platform, is it much more expensive than the standard 18x20 size? 18x20 is certainly too small Black Night or AC-3 and a bit too small for AC-1.
Before Sakra, I was using Synergistic Research Apex. I did try Indra in my system after I got some Sakra. I think Indra is a little more forward. Sakra is a bit more full bodied, better extension especially in the bass. Since I am using mostly single ended cable (only had one pair of Sakra XLR from my old ASR day before switching to Lamm), it was a bit more affordable. Power cords are also now all Stealth Dream. Before that it was Synergistic Research Halogram A/D. Speaker cables however are still Synergistic Research Apex as I found Stealth V10 not that much better than SR Apex speaker cables and felt it was more of a lateral move.
Congrats! you have some great pces and I'm sure your system as a whole must sound sweet.
We have some similarities, I also have a TW table mines the "Black Knight" and really enjoy!
My set-up is on a suspended wooden floor so I have a custom made Minus K platform which my BK sits upon, does a superb job for isolation.
I have a 12" REED paired up with a My Sonic Labs Ultimate BC cart, great combination and truely enjoying both paired up with my TW.
Cables; I have been using Stealth Audio Indra's for years now and again truely enjoying. I noticed you mentioned you are awaiting for another pair of Sakra's, I have yet to make the jump considering the cost factor difference. Is there really that much of a difference sonically when you compare also taking into consideration the cost difference. What did you have prior to your Sakra's.
What speaker cables and PC's are you using, I'm using Stealth dream but again there is now a 10V out and is suppose to offer this and that. Always seems to be something new right arround the corner but the prices seem to be getting higher and higher, crazy actually.
Peter, my TW Acustic is sitting on 10cm granite slap on steel leg. I got the granite top bench from a factory that make benches for equipment in factory. The whole thing weight a bit over 100 kg and they come to install it and level it with micron bubble level. I have not experimented with other platform yet. I think I read somewhere in the past that TW recommended using its table on a thick piece of granite.
LP is cleaned either with steam, ultrasonic bath or a Clearaudio matrix machine (or usually 2 or all 3 of the above).
Suteetat, Congratulations. Great list of components. Set up is crucial at all levels, however, in your rarified plane, you won't know what your gear is capable of until you get the listener/room/speaker relationship spot on. It is really worth every effort.
I'm curious about your unsuspended TT. I have the SME 10 which also has no suspension and found that isolating it on a Townshend Seismic Sink made a huge difference. So did ultra clean records. With the resolving capabilities of your fantastic system, a very clean LP free of vibrations will surely sound fantastic.
I would love to see photos of the TT and seating area. Wonderful job.
Opps,forgot to mention my phono. I have 2, Lamm LP2 and Aesthetix Io Eclipse. I plan to eventually run 2 turntables, may be 2 or possibly 3 arms. However, I am waiting for another pair of Stealth Sakra to come in so I can hook up both phonos. The other turntable I have is a VPI Classic with Dyna XV-1s.
The Lamm L2R linestage preamp does not use vacuum tubes in its signal path, only in its separate power supply. Nonetheless, it is always a wise idea to use electronics from Lamm since they are among the most grain-free products of the modern era.
Hello Suteetat,
It is not clear what phono preamplifier you are using. This component is the most important in any analogue playback system.
You are very smart to use Lamm Hybrid amp with the tubed preamp. Your core components are set for years to come. If you were to add a Tripoint Troy, you will hear things you didn't think a stereo could do. Cables also will be huge in such a resolving system.
Thanks for all the compliments. NOt sure how much the elevated TV helps but since my listening is also my living room and I am a bit limited in where I can place everything so I figure out that it would not hurt. Having TV right between the speakers at the same level certainly does not help. I was also experimenting with tube trap placement behind speakers so it was a bit more convenient to have the monitor out of the way so I can place tube trap in the center as well.
