Atlas is an incredible match with Reed. I just sat down to listen to it for awhile after mounting it on my Reed 3Q. The bass is powerful and quite generous. Definitely exceed what Air Tight/Reed can do although the sound is a bit hard, less sweet and not quite as warm as Air Tight (although I would not call Air Tight/Graham sweet either). I imagine that the hardness and slight edge should disappear after awhile.
I run Atlas into Lyra Arion (Finewire C37 from Reed to Arion) and Stealth phono from Arion to Lamm LP2 currently. Arion also seems to complement Atlas well. It was rather dull and underwhelmed with Dynavector and Air Tight when I tried earlier.
Thanks, excellent comments and I really appreciate you taking the time. For my system and my table (Grand Prix Monaco) it seems to like a touch of warmth, so I am still very much leaning to the Reed 3p after reading your comments.
Although, I wish I had spots for 2 arms !!
I"ve heard the Lyra Atlas and the Air Tight supreme at a friends house. I might put the Atlas on the Reed to start and the AirTight on the Graham. Although if you'rre digging that transient attack, snap...that lyra on the Graham will likely take this to a whole new level...
Oh the problems we have to deal with listening to vinyl ;-) !! Anyway, congrats, happy the Graham is working out nicely and you have 2 killer good arms!
I think my initial comment is still valid to a certain extent although in the past, I would give preference to Reed but now it is much harder call and it would really depends on what kind of music you listen to the most and what you want to add to the system. The big complains about having less decay and harmonic is pretty much gone after changing out Graham phono cable. With the Graham dialing in more properly, I don't feel there is any deficiency in that area and the voice has more body and fullness to it although Reed is stilll the richer, warmer sounding arm. Graham throws a wider, more precised soundstage. The amount of really tight bass, snap, transient attack is quite incredible. I have not heard what my system is capable of in this area until I got the Graham dialed in better over the past few days. I still personally prefer Reed for vocal music, piano, chamber piece as it is sweeter, softer, more mellow sounding. Reed bass is a bit heavier, fatter, giving a very nice growl to the lower piano register and a bit more weight although a less defined than Graham. Personally I am glad I don't have to choose which arm to keep. Hopefully next week, I should get in Lyra Atlas, it will tough to decide which arm will get Lyra and which will get Air Tight. If I really have to choose one arm, logically, Graham is probably the better all around arm for a variety of music but somehow, I still think Reed is a slightly more musical and more beautiful sounding arm. Hmmm.... I can't really choose but would be very happy to live with either, I suppose.
Suteetat, hello...been following the other thread on setting up your Graham 12inch. Seems like you have it more dialed in now. Anymore comments between it and the Reed you own?
I have narrowed down my next arm purchase to a Reed 3p 10.5" or a Graham..want to try and decide in the next month or so...it's hard b/c I can't really audition either...
My Reed 3Q came equipped with Finewire C37, WBT Nextgen, with 4N silver. There is no way to change that but it seems to work very well. It runs into Dyna SUT and I use Stealth Hyperphono RCA cables between SUT to Lamm LP2. I probably will end up getting another Stealth Hyperphono cable eventually for Graham as I use all Stealth IC, AC power cable.
John, I borrowed a Transparent Ref MM2 phono and it is the best I've had in my system, but until I decide to start spending big bucks on cables, my Hovland MG2 will have to do. I did once ask Bob Graham to reorient the din plug to fit in my new SME V-12, but discussions broke down, so I did it myself. The MG2 is pretty good.
I agree that phono cables can alter the sound a lot.
Albert will soon be comparing the 12" Graham Phantom to the SME 312S. I look forward to reading his findings.
Yeah, I was wondering about that also. I few years ago I had a SME stock cable, Hovland Music Groove (version 1), Graham IC 50, Purist Venastas all on hand for trials. Had a SME 20/2 + SME IV.Vi at the time. I preferred the cables in the order above and will say the Purist Venastas was a SIGNIFICANT step above the others. Not even close.
Later I bought a Purist Proteus Provectus Praesto and it brought more clarity and transparency...again not subtle. Did seem to loose just a tad in the deep bass power...but bass clarity being better. Now I have a Transparent Reference XL MM2, it's even better but crazy expensive (5k) and it's shades of grey better...more system matching stuff vs the Purist...
(keep nudging Peter that he has some fun to seek out on cabling off his arm :)
I do have a note into the Reed importer here in the USA on a din option for the Reed 3p...
I'll be real curious if you find another cable to demo...Thanks !!
Hmmm... slight update on Graham. I replaced Graham IC-70 with SAEC silver phono cable as a friend of mine who got Graham a bit before me told me that he really disliked IC-70. I have to agree with him. The dryness and leaness, lack of decay was substantially reduced. Female voice now is bigger, fuller, a bit more lush and smoother. Not quite to Reed's extent but quite a bit better for sure. Granted that IC-70 only had may be 20-30 hours on them but I don't know how much better it would get. Unfortunately, I don't have any other DIN cable to try beside this two and look like I will have to find one more DIN cable to use as I took SAEC cable out of my Micro Seiki table.
I thought I read sometimes ago that Graham bought copyright from Hovland when it went under. Is the current IC-70 the rebranded Hovland? The price is the same $800 as the old Hovland.
Hi Peter, thanks for jumping in here. I do have the v12 on my short list, really just 3 arms, Graham 12 or 10, Reed 3p (maybe 10.5), and the SME V-12.
And yes, the Supreme in Alberts 312s is just wonderful. Like I said in his thread, no need to listen to anything else...
Given the qualities in our systems, all this comes down to very careful matching and the fact that it's very very hard to compare. What got me started on the tonearm path is the fact the TriPlanar has a few issues. Lot's of stuff vibrates, so you begin to strip it off (damping trough/antiskating) and you're in surprise on how much better it sounds. Next for me is taking off the finger lift...
I never had these issues with my former SME IV.Vi...I will say my Allaerts sounds pretty damn nice in the TriPlanar.
The second thing is I may want a Atlas soon...thinking the Reed might match with it nicely, given the comments above.
Interesting comments back and forth here..thanks !!
Peterayer, very interesting comment about SME V-12. I had SME 3010R in my system for a little while. Unfortunately I did not try it with TW/Air Tight at that time as I was looking for an arm to go on my Micro Seiki B-111 table to use with my Koetsu. In the end, I went with FR 64s instead. Now I wish I tried the 3010R on TW with Air Tight and see what happened!
To be fair, I think some of the deficiency that I find with both arms, as I said, were relative to each other and I think that the deficiency was more obvious when comparing the two just because each arm was so good in their strong suit that it shows what the other is missing. However, if SME V-12 really combines the virtue of both arms, I would be in heaven. Now, I just have to figure out how can I find a V-12 to try!
Suteetat and Jfrech, I hope you don't view this comment as intruding on your thread, but I was very interested to read Suteetat's last post about the Supreme in the two arms. As you both know, I own the Supreme, an SME arm/table and Magico speakers and have admired both your systems for some time.
When Suteetat described the Graham like SS and the Reed like tubes and the other details, I can really relate, though I have never heard either arm in my system. The description was just so clear and well written.
The Supreme in my SME V-12 arm has both the quick leading transients/attack, as well as a very developed decay and harmonic structure. It is a very complete sound, and one which I can't identify any fault with. It really sounds like it has the best qualities of both arms. I know his system is highly resolving, though I have not heard it. John, you have heard the Supreme in Alberts SME 312S. Did it sound complete, or was something lacking as Suteetat suggests with the Graham and Reed?
This is all very subjective, but Suteetat's description above is so clear to understand, I think we can relate to the sounds he is hearing.
John, I would suggest you strongly consider adding the V-12 to your short list.
I only have Graham in my system for a couple of weeks so this is probably not Graham at its best yet and I only try it with Air Tight PC-1 Supreme so far. However, I had Air Tight mounted on Reed for well over a year so I am quite familiar with Air Tight/Reed 3Q combination. Also I use Graham with its top of the line cable which is probably not even close to burned in unlike Reed with its own cable that has been on regular duty for more than a year.
The two has very different sound. Graham is more clear, a bit more detail and sound a bit drier. Reed is warmer, sweeter tone, bigger image, a bit softer and more mellow. Graham has more tightly focus sound, each instrument is more well defined. Graham has a tighter, faster bass, more transient attack than Reed. Reed is more mellow, bigger, fatter and bit less detail bass.
If you listen to a person plucking string instrument, you will hear more fundamental, more fingering detail with Graham. However, with Reed, you hear more decay. Graham seems to have very little decay or harmonics. This is the part that bother me the most about Graham/Air Tight combination. The difference is more relative rather than definitive. Reed certainly does not lack in detail or bass slam but certainly not to the extent of Graham.
On chamber music, vocal, piano, solo instrument, I find Reed smoother, rounder and has more pleasing tone and more musical. Perhaps a bit more colored than Graham. Graham is more fun with rock/pop and large scale symphonic work as far as rhythmic drive is concerned but I prefer midrange and higher frequency tonal balance of Reed.
Probably a bit too simplistically put but I think of Graham as a very good solid state gear and Reed like a very good tube gear. So depending on the rest of the system and your preference, the type of music you listen to, I can see someone prefer Graham over Reed or vice versa.
For me, I give an edge to Reed, another friend with Reed 2P/Graham 10 inch arm actually prefer Graham a bit more.
Hi, I saw on another thread your comments on the Graham 12 inch vs your Reed. Can you elaborate some? I am thinking about a new arm, likely a Graham or the reed 3p. I want to keep my TriPlanar. I may also consider a SME V-12...
Suteetat: I believe you have listened the Dynavector XV-1S in combination with both the TW Acustic 10.5 and Reed tonearms. Do you recall what differences in sound you heard between the two in terms of tonal balance and listenability? Also, how would you describe the difference in general personality between the two arms? I would appreciate it if you could contact me directly at [email protected] Kind thanks.
Peter, Coralstone did not sound that impressive with TW/Reed combination. It was ok but nowhere nearly as nice as Air Tight/Reed/TW. However, I have much better luck with Coralstone on my FR64s/Micro Seiki BL-111. One of these days, I will have to try mounting FR64s on TW with Coralstone and see how that goes. When I first bought TW, I talked via my local dealer to TW quite a bit about arm and cartridge and they strongly discourage using Koetsu with their arm/table. However, I would say that Micro Seiki/FR/Coralstone certainly rival Air Tight/TW/Reed but with quite a different presentation so it is really depends on my mood which table I want to listen to.
Suteetat, Have you had a chance to compare the Air Tight Supreme to the Coralstone? I'm also curious if you have ever had the opportunity to compare an SME table to your TW Acustics. Your system must really sound great these days. I'd love to audition the Q3.
Given the new Q7, I wonder if someday the Q3 and Q5 will have version 2 with one woofer above the tweeter like with the Q7. The technology should trickle down to the lower models at some point.
Pradeep, thanks for the information. I am not sure if the wall in my apartment can handle this kind of weight as it is not weight bearing wall, as far as I know. However, my local TW dealer is using one of those magnetic lift footer under a platform that TW is sitting on and seems to work quite well. I tried those magnetic footers under amplifier platform and CD player but did not like the effect very much but never tried it under turntable myself though.
Suteetat, the wall mount bracket I have( check my system pics) was specially fabricated. Given the weight of the TW, I found that my earlier floor mounted rack was top heavy and hence not rock solid stable as a TT rack should be. The difference post wall mounting is significant. I had 2 brass brackets cast by a friend with a 2.5" MDF board on top. The TW sits on a HRS isolation platform with the 3 motor BN unit on a separate MDF base. I would seriously recommend that you explore a wall mount, if your room situation permits. It's a minor expense compared to the cost of your system and well worth it. I can't really comment on the benefits of the 3AC motors vs the BN motor as I got the whole package. Given a choice I would prefer the BN motor as its heavier and I suspect more stable( not talking speed) than 3 individual motors etc. Cheers Pradeep
Pradeep, is there a wall mount bracket that would be strong enough for TW? I was going to upgrade the PSU and TW also mentioned that BN 3 motors would be better than AC-3 route. Unfortunately, I have some unexpected expense so PSU will have to wait a little bit longer :(
Congratulations on an awesome system. If you are still contemplating the TW AC 1 vs BN 3 motor route,I would be happy to share my experience. I finally took the plunge for the BN PSU+ motor last month. Have my TT on a wall mounted bracket. IMHO , if possible,that's the best isolation. I do get to Bangkok at least once a year. Cheers Pradeep
Peterayer, sorry for the late reply, haven't been to this page in awhile. Air Tight supreme is well extended from top to bottom. The bass is not as warm or big as Dyna XV-1s but is better defined and focus. The bass is deep and tight. The high is well extended, very smooth with plenty of detail. Some of my friends think that the extension is a bit artificially enhanced, or digital like, whatever that means but I found it very pleasing and very smooth. As much as I like XV-1s, Air Tight better it in just about every way. Other cartridges I have in my system right now is a Kiseki Blue and I am in a process of burning in Koetsu Coralstone. A bit too early to tell how it would compare to Air Tight at this stage.
Khun Suchart, yes, I base in Bangkok. Let me know if you would like meet up sometimes.
I notice you have the AirTight Supreme. I have the regular PC-1. Could you describe what you like about your cartridge and which other cartridges you compared it to? Thanks.
