Hi Suteetat,

Thank you for your reply. Last night finally armboard arrived to install Ikeda 407 tonearm. I also experimented with Kai and Kansui with different headshells, also compared them to Graham/Orpheus combo. I copy paste my short experience with them as I wrote in another forum:

"Finally armboard arrived. I installed the tonearm though I am not familiar with those (just know Graham). Did not much experience on antiskating will experience today. Installed Kai and Kansui to different headshells and tried (not quite sure the most optimum alignment but fair for a quick try). Kai is really special with 407, Kansui is also very nice but different. Kai excels in soundstage, liquidity, a midrange liquidity and presence to hear, upper tones almost excellent even from 0 hours. Kansui having better PRAT, more emphasis on midbass, still very good tracking and detail on mids/highs though not at the same level of Kai. Kai seemed to be slightly on the warm side though Kansui seemed more neutral to lean side. Btw, Kai was not bass shy, bass texture and decay seemed to better compared to Kansui. Certainly, breaking in and better alignment should be factored in to make any critical judgement. For sure, both cartridges provide sheer musical pleasure. Compared to Orpheus/Graham, both cartridges with Ikeda had better liquidity, better midrange details and highs while Orpheus/Graham combo sounded best in bass details (might be a function of 9 inch vs 12 inch, tonearm differences as well as tonearm cables)."

I would like to also listen to Q7 regardless of its price, size etc before I make my decision to upgrade speakers. I know it may be dangerous! :-)

number_95 April 18, 2014 08:29

MIyajima is a very differerent sounding cartridge from Kai. It won't have the same kind of smoothness of Ikeda but it is a very exciting sounding cartridge, big bold sound but not edgy or aggressive. I heard the Kansui several times with Reed and Thales arm. I have the Zero on my VPI arm currently.

Yes, listening to Q7 was incredible. Wish I did not listen to it. Not only the price is prohibitive at this time, its weight would push my apartment's floor to the limit as far as weight consideration as well. I would hate to wake up one day and find Q7 in my downstair neighbor's living room :)

My Magico dealer also prefer Q3 over Q5 for what its worth. Nowadays, I prefer 90+ dB sensitivity speakers. I love the way those speakers going from ppp to fff so effortlessly and naturally. Listening to Q7 with the trade mark magico sound doing something likely that is amazing. I am not sure if you can ever get that with Q5 regardless of amplifiers. Q3 also does not quite do that but Eventus gives me a little glimpse of that for now :)

suteetat April 18, 2014 00:36

Great info Suteetat, thank you very much!

I do not have any Koetsu, only Miyajima Kansui as an alternative to Kai. I will first try Kai with Ikeda IT-407 tonearm (which should be similar to your FR-64) also will give it a try with Graham to see the differences thru different tonearms. Although my mind states both Ikedas together should have synergy as well as Ikeda tonearm would provide better sonic performance with lower compliance cartridges, but who knows. I will not make a critical listening since recently upgraded phono stage to ARC Ref phono 10, teflon caps need a long burning in, currently using a kabusa reverse riaa converter to burning in the unit.

Q7 is also my priority but very expensive! I presume compared to Q5, Q3 will sacrifice little while having a bit warmer balance.

number_95 April 16, 2014 09:26

Hi Number_95, I really like the Kai. The midrange reminds me somewhat of Koetsu but with extended top and bottom and better speed. It may lack a little of the Koetsu's full, rich midrange. With certain kind of music, Kai still is not quite up to Koetsu's standard but I think it is a better all around cartridge for variety of music. I used it mainly with FR 66s, alternating with Koetsu.

Q3 is a lot easier to drive than Q5. As a whole, I really like Magico with tube but Q5 is rather difficult to drive. I heard it with the big VTL and was not impress. However, Q3 can get by even with Air Tight ATM-3 which is 110 watts in ultralinear mode. Conrad Johnson ART or Ayon Orthos XS certainly had no problem driving Q3. You give up a bit of bottom end for Q3 in comparison to Q5 but Q3 is a bit warmer, may be a touch darker while Q5 is more neutral. Personally I find Q3 more pleasing and easier to listen to in a long run.

Actually, I don't have Q3 now but have not updated my system in a while. I did not think that Q5 was a huge upgrade from Q3 as I prefer Q3 tonal balance plus I don't think that my amps would be up to driving Q5 sufficiently. If I have the money, Q7 would be on my very short list of speakers to consider. As of right now, I have Eventus Nebula which I find to be a good upgrade from Q3. I think the Nebula is priced in the same ballpark as Q5 in the US.

suteetat April 15, 2014 15:20

Hi Suteetat, what a nice system!

I wonder if you can give some feedback for Kai cartridge? Do you use it with FR-64? I recently bought Kai not used for now, also recently bought Ikeda 407 tonearm, it should be perhaps similar to your FR-64. Other alternative is to use Kai with existing Graham tonearm, but my priority would be using both Ikeda together.

I also realized you have Magico Q3. I am also considering a move to Magico from my old and beloved B&W Nautilus 800 speakers. I consider Q5 with my current ARC Ref 610 amps but may also think Q3 if driving Q5 is really hard.

Any feedback welcome. Regards.

number_95 April 14, 2014 13:55

Oppps, sorry for misspell your name, Peterayer, my mouse hand was a bit faster than my eyes :)

Pradeep, personally I like Amperex variety of 6922 the best in comparison to Mullard, Tele, Mazda, Siemens that I tried. Although I never had a chance to listen to Tele Cca.

I think Amperex is the best compromise of them all. May be midrange is not quite a rich, lush as Mullard but it has much better extension at both end than Mullard. Siemens Cca is too lean for my taste. Tele has excellent detail, focus and extension, more so than Amperex but just a bit on the sterile side for me. At least, this is what I find on CJ GAT and input stage of Lamm M2.2. Amperex PQ is pretty good, may be just a tad less than the pinch waist but not by much and you will still get pretty much all the characteristic that I like in the pinch waist.
However, I imagine that depending on the rest of your system, Siemens Cca or Tele may also work well.
Brent Jesse described Mazda as halfway between Tele and Mullard (if I remember correctly) which is kind of right but it just did not sound musical to me. Very quiet tube though.

suteetat February 19, 2014 23:51

Peteray, I tried both Atlas and Supreme on Reed 3Q in the same system but have not tried both cartridges with other arms. Atlas throw a bigger stage, a bit more detail but Air Tight is a bit better focus. Air Tight is a bit unusual, very generous bass, tight, deep, powerful (but not quite as big as Atlas) but the mid/high is very delicate, a bit cooler/leaner as in not as warm or full body but somehow also sound a bit on the sweet side. Some of Air Tight characteristic may be contributed to Reed though. On Graham, it has powerful bass but too sterile for me and I did not like the combination at all. However, I think I am in a very small minority of people who don't like Graham at all. On Reed, I give a slight edge to Lyra but I certainly could live happily with either one. Air Tight is currently in a box but I am waiting for VPI 3D arm and want to try that with Air Tight and see what happen.

suteetat February 19, 2014 23:41

Many thanks for your classical LP recommendations. Some real gems and many that I don't have.
Am in the process of ordering a pair of Amperex 7308 PQ tubes for the GAT from Brent Jesse. Would appreciate any comments/advise.
Cheers
Pradeep

sunnyboy1956 February 19, 2014 12:45

Suteetat, Have you had a chance to compare the Atlas to the Supreme in the same arm? I'm curious to know how you would compare these two cartridges and if you prefer one to the other. Thanks.

peterayer February 18, 2014 13:28

Zermatt, thanks for the update. I will look into BN feet as well. I think with BN feet, now it is really only the plinth that is still the original Raven AC part :)

suteetat February 15, 2014 17:21

Suteetat:

My TT was updated with BN feet. My older feet were the Stilpoints. The BN feet are one major upgrade and I would highly recommend them to you. Richer harmonics and better low level detail are the major improvements.

zermatt February 12, 2014 21:20

Thanks for the reply Suteetat. I understand they had humming issues with older JA200 so wondering vintage of your amps.

knghifi February 04, 2014 17:04

Knghifi, it has been quite a few years since I had my Jadis. I bought them used but I don't remember the years though but my guess the unit was probably brand new in early 2000-2002 perhaps.

suteetat February 03, 2014 23:57

Suteetat, do you remember the year your Jadis JA200 was manufactured?

knghifi February 02, 2014 18:48

JFrech, I would say that Thoeress is more similar to Lamm LP2 Very quiet although there it is an all active gain stage unit.
Big sound, a little dark in comparison to Aesthetix but not quite as much as Lamm. Excellent bass. It matches very well with Lamm amplifier and while I had Lamm electronics, I felt that over all it competes very well with Aesthetix, I might had a slight preference over Aesthetix even. Aesthetix is more delicate, very natural sounding, uncolored in comparison. However, with Ayon amp, I felt Aesthetix has better synergy and its performance is a notch above Thoeress.
EQ option on Thoeress is a lot of fun and it works well on many of my LP but for most part, the RIAA option works very well already. With 6 inputs to boot, it really makes life a lot easier as I have 4 arms on my turntables for now.

suteetat January 26, 2014 00:09

Thanks Jfrech,
I will ask Albert

csng1 January 25, 2014 15:39

Csng1, i saw your other post on Io and Callisto options/upgrades...someone else to consider asking is Albert Porter here in A'gon. He used to own both the Callisto and Io, had dual power supplies for both and went through the upgrades.

Suteetat: how would you compare your Thoress to the lamm or Io? I want to get a better phono stage soon...I've been saying for a bit but ready this year to make this move i think...The other I am very curious about is the Allnic H5000 or maybe the Zanden 1200mk3

jfrech January 25, 2014 13:12

Hi Suteetat
Thanks for Lamm info, i need flexibilities, you never know when you changing carts, IO Eclipse is good phono, i know is a big jump from sgn. When i upgraded from Callisto sgn. to Eclipse what a big improvement. i have NOS, just correspond to Glen of Aesthetix. the Power supply changing EL34 with Nos will improve sonic.
I am sending back next month my Eclipse for calibration for some reason is off balance.
Chris

csng1 January 24, 2014 19:46

Chris, Lamm is very quiet. The sound quality is excellent, a little dark but very musical, pretty much the usual Lamm house sound but it lacks flexibility as it has only 1 mm input and 1 mc input which is basically a built in SUT. You cannot adjust loading at all so you have to make sure that your cartridge will be compatible. Standard Lamm phono comes with 1:10 SUT, (about 58 dB gain total) but if you order a new unit, Lamm can install 1:32 SUT instead if you like but for somereason, no 1:20 SUT. However, Lamm just release LP2.1 which uses different tubes and I have not heard it. If you have appropriate cartridge, Lamm is an excellent value.

For Aesthetix IO, I can hear a little something if my ears are close enough to the tweeters but I don't hear any extra noise from listening position. I think it does wear out the tubes, especially new Chinese/Russian tubes quite quickly but NOS tubes seems to last longer. I ended replacing all 3 gain stages with NOS tubes. The most important one as far as noise is concerned is the first gain stage. I ordered some tubes from Brent Jesse and told him that they would go into first stage of the IO and asked him to check to make sure that they are low microphonic tubes. That seems to work very well.Overall, I do think that Io Eclipse is a better phono unit than Lamm LP2 (it should as almost twice the price), much more flexible but need a little work on tube selection.

suteetat January 23, 2014 23:06

HI Suteetat

i am thinking of either upgrade my Callisto Eclipse with 2 Power supply or upgrade my IO sgn. to Eclipse.
But the upgrade IO to eclipse is $7000. Is the lamm phono very quiet, the IO has a tube rush noise on my speaker on 28click on Callisto volume but on CD player is dead quiet.but when cannot be heard from where i seat, might be pick up by cart.
I did not have A/B with Lamm and IO eclipse.
As for amp upgrade hopefully this year, i think i have to stick with SS because i needed for Home theater system,
One thing having krell FPB600 it never ever run out of power and Hansen Emperor is 87db, probably might drop to 84db therefore high power amps for me is needed.
i am hoping to get a used Burmester 911mk3 or 909mk5 if i have a better year if not Krell evo900e which is about $18000 used. i heard good thing of the evo. i believe krell is phasing out this evo production.
Chris

csng1 January 23, 2014 20:49

Peterayer, the switch to Eventus Nebula was actually unplanned :)
I heard Eventus the last few years at Hong Kong show with Soulution electronics and was very impressed. Much better match than Soulution/Magico that I heard (I never was a big fan to Magico/Soulution combination and really like Magico with tubes more). Anyhow, recently a dealer started a line of Eventus in Thailand and offered me a very good deal so I was interested. At the time, I really was already very happy with Q3 and never thought that I would want to upgrade my speakers actually. After living with Q3 for awhile, one of my main requirement is that I want something that has as little as possible or no coloration from the enclosure.I found Magico to be excellent in this point. Some friends think that may be it is the aluminium enclosure sound that I like, rather than absence of enclosure sound.However, having own Magnepan and Martin Logan in the past, I think I know what I am hearing. In this respect, Eventus also excel. It uses resin enclosure but I think it shares more similar characteristic to Q3 than Wilson which also uses resin for some reason, considering that Eventus is also ported like Wilson. The main difference though is that Eventus is faster, deeper, more control, more detail bass but may be a touch leaner balance than Q3. Q3 is darker through the midrange but more open and extended at the top. YOu get a bit more sparkle and shimmering on cymbal and upper string with Q3. Q3 can be a little bit forward and a bit on the agressive side where as Eventus is more laid back, relax but never too polite. With Lamm power amp/CJ pre, Q3 throws a bit bigger sound but not as well defined as Eventus. However, with Soulution, Eventus throw a big hugh full body sound where as it sounded lean, clear and a bit sterile on Magico when I heard it so go figure. Eventus also is quite a bit easier to drive although Q3 is supposed to be 90 dB 5 ohms, Nebula is 91db, 8 ohms, Eventus sounds quite a bit more effortless but not to the same degree as Q7.
Over here, I did not have to spend that much more to switch to Nebula so it was easy decision. In the US, I think Nebula is priced similarly to Q5. I am never a big fan of Q5 though as it is much more difficult to drive and I like the warmer sound of Q3 than Q5. I really want to hear how SET amp would match with Nebula.

suteetat January 19, 2014 01:38

Suteetat, Could you explain why you replaced the Q3? How do your current Eventus speakers differ from the Magico? Thanks.

peterayer January 18, 2014 23:16

Chris,
I have not heard Hansen speakers. The speakers in my pictures were Magico Q3. I have not changed my system pictures yet but actually Q3 was replaced by Eventus Nebula a couple of months ago. I have Ayon Orthos XS KT150 right now. It delivers 300 watts in triode mode and 400 watts in pentode mode.
Eventus is 8 ohm, 91dB. When I had Jadis JA200, the speakers were Usher Be20 at that time. I would think that either amps should be up to driving your speakers very well. Jadis is lusher, a bit more bass heavy, fatter, slower bass. Ayon bass is tighter, lots more detail. Took quite a bit of burning before the bass starts to give full impact. For what its worth, I think Aesthetix works really well with Ayon. I have Aesthetix Io Eclipse, with Lamm electronic, the Aesthetix was nice but did not outshine my old Lamm LP2 phono or Thoeress phono much. With Ayon, there is more synergy for sure. I am not 100% settled on Orthos yet as my local dealer should be getting in the Ayon Titan soon so I want to hear that. However, Titan is only 75 watts. Mr Gerhard Hirt of Ayon though told me that Titan should be able to drive just about any speakers but does not recommend it with electrostatic or speakers with sensitivity of low 80's dB or lower.
I generally prefer tube or tube hybrid amps but Burmester would be one of the few solid state amps, I would consider if I have to get solid state amps.

suteetat January 18, 2014 22:38

Hi Suteetat
Thanks for your respond, so busy this week.
Which Ayon you have? Your magico look like bigger than Q3 in the picture.
Reason I ask about amp is I have been using krell fpb600 for almost close to 10 years, hoping to upgrade.

I needed powerful amp to run my Hansen emperor as it 87db 6 ohms.
As for tube minimum of 150watts.
The solid S considering Burmester 911mk3 or 909.
Here my system

Aesthetix Callisto eclipse with 1ps
Aesthetix io signature with 1ps ( hoping to upgrade to eclipse)
Sony scd-xa9000es
Vpi classic 4 with dyna xv1s
Hansen Emperor
Richard Gray power house - power conditioner.
Nordost Valhalla , IC and speaker cable.PC.

Hansen wizard centre speaker for HT.
106" widescreen.
Room size 15ft wide x 25ft length x 9ft open to right side 15ft wide.
Is in the basement.

Any suggestion on great power amps, I could like to hear from everyone having similar experience in upgrading their system.

Well, I am right now listening my system at 7.24am Western Canada time, Beautiful British Columbia . Beautiful Burke mountain that where I live.

Chris

csng1 January 18, 2014 15:26