I'm a serious musician and audio has been important to me since the 1960s. This system is my third major upgrade in the last 40 years.
You can see that it's important for me to integrate my system into our apartment living space, that I share with my wife of 39-years. It was important for the speakers to be physically attractive as furniture and, most importantly, be very musical.
The analog front end is incredibly revealing. When I'm seriously listening I pull the speakers out to the positions that you see, which was determined using Sumiko's Master Set technolog. Rod Thomson of Soundings set mine for me. Believe it or not, that table to the left is no problem for either imaging or frequency response. The narrow set is defined by that short wall and the opening into the hall and foyer. The image goes out past the speakers and centered vocalists are about 3/4 the way up the armoire in the center and depth goes back to the back wall. You'd be amazed at the bass from this system, particularly given the wonderfully open and textured midrange.
At other times the AKG headphones and incredible Woo Audio amplifier provide a great alternative for listening without moving the furniture around.
The Korg MR1000 is used for live recording and archiving vinyl using 1-bit DSD at 5.6 mHz.
Hi Dave, I had a look around for the playback design. There is not much, but enough to get an idea. Let me know how you get on with it. The though of changing players again would be very depressing for me!
Power Factor Correction has taken the Rowland monos to a new level. I'm told that 501s+PFC gives the 312 a run for it's money.
There's a review of the Playback Design here on A'gon, by Mike Lavigne. Mine's supposed to ship tomorrow or Monday, so I'll be adding my comments in a couple of weeks.
I know it is very dangerous. The last time I posted my feelings towards valves I had hate email for weeks!
I had the ICE power JR monos, but changed them for Bel cantos version. I have always liked JR amps including their ICE power versions.
I found the presentation of the BC Ref1000s was deeper, larger and wider in my set up.
All sorts of audiogoners were telling me they were rubbish, stripped timbre, and were not highend.
Poor people, I bet they have never tried them, or if they did all that happened was ICE power showed them what their system was doing.
I have replaced some very fine amps with these and I dont miss them. Well some of the tube euphonics for the first 2 hours I guess, but I gained in every other place. The simple mods I have had done to mine just refined their sound even more. Maybe not quite Halcro DMs but very very close.
I dont know the MPS-5 SACD player. I will look it up.
Thanks Chadeffect. Yes, you wouldn't want to say something so clear over in that thread with the tubies, which, after all, is a thread specifically asking for SS pre-amp suggestions.
You reminded me that I need to update my pictures to show my even more revealing and transparent Rowland. I've still got a picture of the C-J. In a week or so I'll be adding a Playback Designs MPS-5 CD/SACD player.
Hi Dave, I didnt want to mess up the speaker for classical music thread. So I figured here was better to say I whole heartedly agree with you regarding the valve amp discussion. While valves are useful and can sound nice and musical, they cannot be used for serious hi end playback.
I have noticed as you, that they do tend to sound the same. Obviously some better than others, but never the less low bass not quite controlled, usually in a "thud" way etc.
I use valves in the studio to create a sound but never to hear one back.
The audiogon seems to be full of people who are covering up their sound with valves for whatever reason.
I'll have to seek out Cessaro. Maybe they'll be at the Rocky Mountain Audio Fest next October. I'm going to give horns a very serious listen before my next upgrade.
I am debating trying a class D or digital amp. They certainly have come of age. I am very sensative to horn colorations. In that regard Avantgarde & Rethm & many others are extremely colored based on my experience. While listening to the Cessaro horns I really tried to hear if there was any color. Honestly, I heard none. Mind you they are front loaded horns, we wood (not plastic) horns and Compression drivers. In fact the Lower midrange was magical. A field coil driver was in use at a price of 8K a driver. 1 for each speaker. The TAD drivers for the Highs & Super tweeter cost about $2500 each. This is cost, not the price from the speaker manufacturer. Lastly the bass had some issues which I need to listen to again to be sure but was also horn loaded but with 4 drivers a side. I am also curious about the new Ion tweeters. I have never heard them.
When it comes to trumpet, the TAD driver was the most realistic trumpet sound I have ever heard. That was in fact one of the strengths. Most full range horns (single driver) will not be able to reproduce a trumpet.
Very interesting Dgad. I'm a musician also and also have trouble loving most horns. I love their dynamic ease but I've yet to hear one without a midrange coloration that made it hard for me to enjoy trumpet and female vocals.
I'm moving to a larger space by summer of 2009 and plan to upgrade my speakers and will reconsider horns one last time. I'm curious to hear about Wilson's new driver when it comes out. I'll probably listen to Wilson, Sonus Faber and Vienna Acoustic's new "The Music". The VAs also have a new midrange driver.
If you find horns that move you away from the Wilsons I'd be very curious to hear about it. The new Spectron amps in mono mode might free up that congestion in you Wilson. Rowland is good, but can't offer you much more power than you now have on tap. As you know, copious power is required to get dynamics speakers to get truly stress free.
I am posting here as to maintain my direction of the original post. I will do a redirect there but answer you more specifically below. The post is not so much about my system as to find out what others have done.
I am sold on the extra resolution horns provide. Mind you, I am not letting my Wilsons go. I plan to stay with them. I live in Aruba. To get a dealer to voice the speakers would cost thousands. I did a farely good job having worked in the business while in college. I have some musician friends who helped and a few audio friends have come over who are manufacturers. The speakers were moved back and were brought foward 1 inch at a time to optimize sound. This wasn't done w. 1 speaker off but still. In addition I have spent a great deal of time determining the zone of neutrality of the room. And from within that zone taped the floor and moved the speakers around within that zone. Listened and then repeated moving the speakers. This was over months and with great attention. The Wilsons don't have any lack of detail per say. They just get congested at louder levels and feel louder. While horns don't and don't feel louder. Hard to explain. Mind you I hate most horns so that will tell you where I am coming from. Wilson came out w. a new midrange in the new X2.2. I have not heard it, but it is proprietary in some way. Also, it is described as having less distortion, & playing louder while seeming more relaxed. Every dynamic driver tries to emulate a horn's speed and detail. My speakers are 8 feet out into the room & 2-3 feet from one side wall and the other wall is a challenge. My listening position is 12 feet from th speakers which are roughly 12 feet apart. It wasn't done based on making a triangle. It was determined by 1st removing congestion from the bass. 2nd, optimizing vertical dispersion of the highs based on my height (not some of my shorter friends), and 3rd was image width while maintaining center fill. Quite tricky & time consuming You do not hear the speakers in my room. That is as far as a large speaker can actually disappear. One other aspect of the room is the ceiling height & beams. My ceiling is very high, spanning between 12 & 16 feet. If you are ever in Aruba you can come by to evaluate. I do want to erect an additional side wall to balance my room. It will need to be removable. I don't believe in too much room treatement. I like the room slightly live.
Interesting, if I apply those adjustments then it reduces the dip and reduces the steepness of the roll-off below 31.5Hz; however, that's not my meter. Mine is a later version with digital readout.
It's also interesting to read further at that site. He's talking about taking readings outdoors at close range. I'm wondering of what use such readings would be. I'm interested in in-room response at and around the listening position. The guy's advocating the kind of thoughtless testing that we'd expect from Consumer's Union. I wonder if people actually chose their speakers based on such testing.
Those readings were from the listening head-position taken with a Radio Shack SPL meter, set for fast response and C-weighting. I repeated the results once, giving the meter about 5-seconds to settle each time.
System edited: At the request of a sceptic or two, I added a graph of the in-room response from 25hz to 200hz. I used that range because that's what's available on the Stereophile test CD. 20hz is down to 65dB and 1000hz is 87dB. The response is very smooth, averaging 85dB. At 31.5hz the response is a pretty healthy 80dB, but there's a dip down to 72dB at 40 Hz. BTW, my average listening level ranges around 85-87dB, so these measurements should correlate well with my listening experience. It's interesting, this dip is the only serious measured roughness, but it doesn't create a perceived "hole" when listening to music, perhaps because it's so low. Now that I've got 40Hz in my head I'll start listening for it in music. At 50Hz the response is just a couple of dB over the average, reading 87dB. I may do a more involved study in the near future. It's interesting to note that if I move the speakers back two inches the 50Hz reading bumps up over 90dB. The Master Set apparently removed the peaks and really smoothed the lower midrange and upper bass. I was a little reluctant to post this curve because I don't want readers to think that the Master Set is all about frequency response. As much effort goes into minimizing Intermodulation Distortion by properly aligning the speakers in relation to each other and the room. I don't know how to measure IM Distortion, but if someone does know, please let me know. I'm really curious to see that. Still, there's no doubt that avoiding bass nodes and over-emphasis has a big impact on midrange clarity. Before the Master Set, working by myself, I couldn't get both a smooth midrange and a full bass. I ended up sacrificing bass by moving the speakers way out into the room. This is a very common solution, but I think it's really a shame when your system doesn't work to its full potential. Some people like to insert a complex EQ circuit into the system to electronically do what Master Set did with physical placement. I think that's valid, but I've spent a great deal of effort making my system transparent, detailed and stress free and I doubt that inserting any device will add to that transparency. Also, those insertations may not be able to deal with IM Distortion.
Hah! I recognize your armoire as the Hickory-White Genesis II series... very well made. I have the companion pieces in my bedroom. I do agree with KeithR's suggestion to at least TRY listening without the armoire, just for comparison sake. You can easily move it using furniture sliders like these... http://www.ezmoves.com
No Keith, the armoire is actually integrated into the sonic picture. Apparently it's reinforcing the bass and by pulling the fronts of the speakers past the front of the armoire the imaging and mids are exceptionally coherant.
If you want to know more, read my review of the Sumiko Master Set in the Reviews section of A'gon.
Any way you can get rid of the armoire Dave? then you will hear a massive increase in high fidelity. i know when i got rid of the furniture in between the speaks, it was light years better.
System edited: I plugged the new Jeff Rowland Design Group Continuum 500 into the system. Even with only about 100 hours on the amp, I can tell it's a step up from the Conrad Johnson CA200 that it replaced. I've started a review in the Review section, which I'll complete after it gets a few hundred hours on it.
System edited to replace the fine Oppo universal player with an even finer Pioneer Elite DV-58AV universal player modified by Ric Schultz. This was a big digital upgrade, bringing digital performance in line with analog.
Yes, my problem has been that the DSD solutions I've found have been "pro-level" and, accordingly, very expensive. I ultimately want to store DSD, 24/196, 24/96, Redbook, etc. on a large HD and have a server that will convert and distribute. A PC server would be ok also; however, I'd like a slick interface that even my wife could operate (a BIG IF-ONLY).
We're on the same trail and I think it's going to come to fruition in the next few quarters.
I'm sure the Korg sounds great. I've just been looking to see if there's any way to keep the files as DSD all the way to the DAC.
I've never done this myself, so this is guesswork. It looks like you can use the Tascam just like you're using your Korg now to play files. But the Tascam would play a DSD bitstream output on BNC, which the Emm dac would receive on its BNC input. So, this method needs the Tascam as an intervening device.
Now here's where I'm really just guessing: You could store and play DSD files from your PC directly to the dac, if you had something like a Pyramix (Merging) workstation. This takes at least a Merging motherboard and an I/O card at the PC, which would output a DSD stream. I have no idea how much these cards and software cost, but I'm guessing they're very pricey. And you may not want to get this complicated or this much into it (not sure I would either now that I'm seeing what's involved at the PC end).
04-08-08: Bigamp said: "I've been looking into this a little more. The Korg records in raw DSD, but only outputs that kind of signal via UBS connector. It looks like the Tascam 1000HD recorder has raw DSD inputs and outputs on BNC connections. If you had a DAC like an Emmlabs dac with a raw DSD input on BNC connectors, you could play back the DSD files from your recorder through the Emmlabs dac on your stereo system. That way, the files are always in DSD format, never downsampled/converted. Just food for thought."
Yes, you're right, it's either analog out or USB. Using the Korg as a player isn't totally bad, but you'd want a better DAC if it were to become your main source.
So the Emm Labs DAC will convert raw DSD? I can move the Korg files via USB to a larger HD easily enough. Can the Emm read a file off a HD with no other intervening device needed, or is something else needed?
