I'm a serious musician and audio has been important to me since the 1960s. This system is my third major upgrade in the last 40 years.
You can see that it's important for me to integrate my system into our apartment living space, that I share with my wife of 39-years. It was important for the speakers to be physically attractive as furniture and, most importantly, be very musical.
The analog front end is incredibly revealing. When I'm seriously listening I pull the speakers out to the positions that you see, which was determined using Sumiko's Master Set technolog. Rod Thomson of Soundings set mine for me. Believe it or not, that table to the left is no problem for either imaging or frequency response. The narrow set is defined by that short wall and the opening into the hall and foyer. The image goes out past the speakers and centered vocalists are about 3/4 the way up the armoire in the center and depth goes back to the back wall. You'd be amazed at the bass from this system, particularly given the wonderfully open and textured midrange.
At other times the AKG headphones and incredible Woo Audio amplifier provide a great alternative for listening without moving the furniture around.
The Korg MR1000 is used for live recording and archiving vinyl using 1-bit DSD at 5.6 mHz.
Dave, AMR player is likely to be at RMAF in October. . . perhaps an unofficial a/b session with your PD can be cobbled together after regular show hours? G.
The more I research the technology that goes into the latest high end players, the more I suspect this is true in the large majority of cases where one unit is clearly different or superior to another.
Pierre, forgive me if I just "react" to the AMR. I'm sure it's very good, BUT I see a lot of concessions to "fashion" that are unlikely to payoff in performance. First the shipping case, next all the blue lights, next the top loading drawer (which I hate) and worst of all - those tubes. Also, why isn't the disc bay flat black instead of shiny? Oh, I almost forgot, where are the digital inputs other than USB???? I'm going to use this thing as a DAC and USB is very limiting. At this price there's no excuse for not offering a full set of digital inputs. Of course, one will be better than the others, just say so. (I wish the MPS-5 had HDMI to accept the DSD-out on my Pioneer, although it's got everything else).
What do I like? The hefty output stage, the custom upsampling DAC, solid transport, solid chassis.
As I wrote in an email recently, my tests using my Pioneer DV-58AV as a transport and the MPS-5 as the DAC, I was getting 90% of the "improvement" of the stand-alone MPS-5. That tells me, "The DAC is where it's at." So, despite my negative reactions to many of AMR's choices, I'd say you can't know how it works until you try it. It looks like a high-potential design, despite my quirky objections.
Anyone in the Denver area got one?? I'd love to do some A-Bing. I suspect they're both very good.
I may well do some more heavy investigation of some of the latest pre-amp with built in phono stage technology, like Rowland, etc.
I've certainly gotten a lot of good use out of the Carver over the years. It has a lot of unique features, but since my latest round of system enhancements over the last two years or so, I don't really use these much anymore, so I suspect that will make it easier to consider something newer, "purer", or maybe even just different.
Mapman, if you decided to change tacks, then you'd probably do it over a period of a couple of years. I've been very blessed financially lately and found myself able to make a lot of changes in quick order, but in the past I probably would have taken two to three years to make changes like those I've made in the last year.
Keeping the hobby interesting, I still vote for you trying to hear your Cambridge in a more "purist" minimalist system vs. a high-end CDP. I'd be willing to bet that Carver is masking some of the glory of your vinyl and protecting your CDP from full scrutiny. It's entirely valid to leave things that way, but just so you'll know...
I use live performances and other good dealer systems that I can audition as references for comparison with my system. Based on this, I do not have any clear issues that I can detect at present.
However, I suspect the Carver pre-amp (which is almost 20 years old already) is the piece I that might make the biggest overall difference for me in an a/b test with a newer quality pre-amp (including phono stage)in that either vinyl or CD sound equally good to me with the Carver. Which exactly depends more on the source quality.
The question as you cite correctly would then be how much better and then does it matter to me.
I still tend to like a lot of vintage gear when I hear it though even when compared to the latest and greatest in many cases.
I think that audio components are like many things today. They cost a lot more to achieve a certain level of quality due to inflation, devalued dollar and other factors.
Older components I find often achieved very high levels of quality at a lower cost back in the day and the value still carries forward to today.
That is largely why I find it difficult to justify huge cash outlays for new products at todays prices when many products from years past still perform extremely well. I have to do a clear a/b test in order to objectively determine where the differences may lie.
Its a tough call when you're a perfectionist like many of us , and on a limiting budget, but I guess that's part of what makes the hobby interesting.
Mapman, I think that most of the performance of the MPS-5 is equally spread between the transport, the proprietary DAC and the proprietary firmware. The firmware can extract the most out of the transport and DAC, but it's unlikely to overcome any basic weakness.
I looked at your system and suspect it's very good, BUT you've got lots of "stuff" in it, including a lot of old technology. I think that if you could get a chance to A-B your Cambridge in a "purist" style system with modern speakers, a state of the art electronics, then you'd hear a clear difference. The issue would then be, is it enough difference to push you to change your approach. You're happy now, so it may not make sense for you.
Just for instance, that Carver is going to be a big limiting factor compared to the latest by Rowland, Ayre, DarTZeel and even Mac. It was an incredible bargain at its price point, but a lot has happened in the intervening years. Moving from my old Bryston 1B/2B amp/pre setup to the Rowland Continuum 500 was HUGE. Running balanced, with minimal length, high quality ICs and speaker cables, you'd be amazed at the depth of the silence and richness of the musical signal. The electronic edge disappears and is not replaced by euphonic tube noise, but just pure music.
If there's an audio society in your area, you could probably join and find a member with a "purist", "minimalist" type of system to insert your cambridge in vs. one of these uber CDPs. I think it would be worth the effort. BTW, I think that the Cambridge is really excellent at it's price points.
How much better are the various big league players to say the Cambridge 840c?
Upgradable or configurable firmware would be a distinct advantage in terms of tweaking the sound. Are there any less expensive players out there that provide this feature? This is a feature I would definitely be interested in, particularly if it can be done in a very user friendly manner that lends itself to experimentation.
With an upgradeable or configurable player, is it always about upgrading to make it "better" or can it be done sometimes just to make it different, say to better match a particular system or room used in?
Even with the modest recent model Denon in my system, I would be hard pressed to identify any major shortcomings compared to other more expensive players I've heard recently, like DCS Puccinni, without an apples and apples a/b test.
THough the Puccinni was very sweet indeed, the sound on my system is not all that different from what I heard there, and I am hard pressed to identify anything significant missing with good or even decent recordings, even compared to vinyl.
I don't doubt the top notch players are better, I have just yet to be able to hear it definitively with my own ears.
I probably need to take my player to a dealer or better yet take one of their good players home to my system for comparison.
Yes Pierre, I have been busy. When the Rowland Continuum unexpectedly (for me anyway) hit the market, suddenly there was everything that I ever wanted in an intergrated available right down the street, so I took that plunge. That step revealed the need to upgrade EVERY IC (now totally AP) and laid bare the shortcomings of my CD reproduction (SACD and vinyl were hunky-dory), so then I discovered the PD at a great introductory price and decided to take that plunge.
About the only thing remaining is a bigger listening room and, perhaps, larger speakers. (I'm eyeing VA's Die Musik that I should be able to hear at Soundings and RMAF as soon as they're available).
Yes, the PD will accept firmware updates via USB.
I'd really be up for an A-B of the Emm and PD. Since they're both one-boxers, it'd be easy to get them together if we're near each other (Denver area?). Who knows, we might could swap out for a week. I'd love to hear your Dali 300/REL system. That might just be superior to the 400 MkIIs, which I've had trouble getting complete bass with (over at Soundings). The 300/REL combination may give the best of both worlds.
I think that the PD MPS-5's success is a combination of hardware (particularly the transport and custom DAC) and software. Andreas got the chance to design the piece that he wanted to and incorporated all of his most recent ideas. He and others will probably continue to make improvements, but I really do think he took a big step forward with this design. Comparing it to something he was involved with not too long ago would be very entertaining for both of us.
So you have the PD MPS-5...would be great to have a shootout between the PD and my modified emm Labs CDSA SE. I've had a couple of PD owners say it's far better than the emm Labs player. Not sure about that with the continuous upgrades of emm Labs owners can receive. Since I design software, I often think where is the innovation in CD players. And where should R&D focus their efforts for noticeable improvements...hardware or software? I guess that is where the PD MPS-5 comes in.
Will you be able to update the firmware in the PD via USB?
Over 400 plus hours on my player and it sounds outstanding in my system. Depth. Details. Dynamics. And the ribbon-tweeter combo of my Helicon 300 loves all the details the CDSA SE provides.
Nice upgrade to Jeff Rowland Continuum 500. Sure that was a big change for your system. I do remember reading where a reviewer said the Vienna Acoustics sounded better with a much more higher powered amplifier. I believe that to be true since my Hayden's (Home Theater System) are powered by Musical Fidelity A308 250 watts per channel, and can deliver blockbusting current and high voltage with very low distortion. So the Continuum has to be sweet with lots of slam, rich mids, and dynamics for the Baby Grand.
System edited: I just added a Playback Designs MPS-5 CD/SACD player and upgraded all interconnects to Analysis Plus Solo Crystal Oval, with balanced from the MPS-5 to the Rowland Continuum 500. I've gained a ton of transparency since I took the first upgrade step of moving to the Vienna Acoustics speakers.
I have seen the Korg but never used it. Most of the stuff I get from the studio is just run off as files so I dont really have an "in between" medium . So if I want to play back mixes at home I either send it from my lap top to my DAC or convert it to 44.1 and burn a CD.
It is a worry to me that most people seem unconcerned about data compression, band width/sample rates. Although the Blue ray disk seems to be offering nice quality for Home theater.
I dont know of any recording studios that are not at least 24bit, though I think most are using 44.k or 48k still unless really top end where this may be 192k on pro tools.
We are at the point where we seem to have fixed many of the other problems in the chain.
In general i guess speakers or microphones are the weakest link in the chain now.
Yes, agreed, the cost does need to come down. Even in our high end products, most of the parts are no longer that expensive. Oppo's shown how inexpensively a "pretty good" piece can be made. My little Korg MR-1000 recorder is amazing at one-thousand bucks, recording 1-bit DSD @5.6MHz. Somebody's going to put together an incredible player for well under $5000 that'll run with my PD or your DSD.
Hopefully hi rez source material will survive. I know it will at my home.
I wish I could have found a one box solution myself. The Emm labs sounded very good.
The new DCS Scarlatti just has so much staggering detail. All aspects hanging together without a thought. It never feels forced or unmusical. Its completely devoid of grain or a sound.
That last trace of reverb tail that would slide into a players nose floor may be right on the edge of your perception, but with the Scarlatti it captures it utterly. The space and layering presented by each instrument with its own volume and texture is complete.
It is only when you hear the DCS Scarlatti then go back to your old player, that you notice what an amazing piece of kit it really is. And my old player was serious too.
With the DCS you just get transported to the time and place where the recording was made, no romance, no euphonics. What is on the disk comes off the disk. Its kind of creepy what is on there! This is why I have gone away from tubes. At this point there is no need to hide or color your CD collection. Hopefully the professionals have already done that for you.
I would say it has got us ready for the final assault on perfect digital playback. All that needs to happen is for that kind of performance to be made cheaper. Maybe thats what you have?
The PD is supposed to ship on Monday. Hopefully that'll put it in the house by next weekend and I'll have over 150-hours on it by the following weekend.
Alas my friend, I have no super hi rez deck to compare it to, other than my vinyl. My modded Pioneer Elite is pretty good, but it shouldn't be able to touch this PD. If it does, then the PD will be going back. Given Mike Lavigne's experience and the resolution of his system and the early report from David Robinson, I don't think that I'll have much to worry about. Also, Mike's friend Ted Smith, an owner of the best Emm rig, gave it high praise.
BTW, the Pioneer will stay in the system as a DVD-A deck and oddball disk player. I'll take its digital-out into the PD's DAC.
I'm wondering if we're not now nearing a topping-out level for digital audio (famous last words). The sampling schemes seem to be finally pushing the limits of audibility. IF, that's a big if, the Playback Design owns any sonic advantage over DCS or Emm now I imagine it'll be shortlived and all will stay clustered together.
Anyway, it was time for me to make a move when I saw Mike Lavigne's review. I really like the one-box setup and the stellar onboard DAC (alas no HDMI input). With AES/EBU it can fill the DAC function in a dedicated music server in the not too distant future.
I'll write a report after I've had it a couple of weeks.
