Hey Dave, you live in a beautiful area, I have visited CO two times. I liked Estes Park both times, but I hear it isn't the same since my last trip, which was over 10 years ago. I live in MI and it snowed a little this morning in fact.

I am not much or a traveler, but if make it out to CO again I'll be sure to let you know. (BTW, I have been a Bronco fan for over 20 years; it has been a strange year this year, while they are doing some winning, it isn't pretty!!)

I'll be very curious of your results with the 170; it has been all positive with me, but my digital isn't/wasn't to your level. I did some comparing to my G08 that I had, and I couldn't pick the two setups apart if I had to. I am very glad that I went this route, I prefer it to using a CDP.

Thanks for the kind words and I do enjoy this combination. Your speakers intrigue me, especially the price. :) I have my Wilson's listed, but I really like them and question following through; but I'd rather have some speakers that I have less money into at this time.

Brian

brianmgrarcom November 08, 2008 08:05

Hey Brian. I see snow out your listening room window, but it looks flat outside, so I'm suspecting it's not Colorado. (Of course, you don't need to go too far East of the Rockies to get to the plain here. I look out one side and see 14,000 foot peaks and it's flat as a pancake on the other side). If you ever come to RMAF you could walk to my place.

BTW, I just added a Wadia 170i to my system last night. It sounds pretty good in casual listening. I'll burn it in another 24-hours and compare it to the CD/SACD player. It certainly is convenient and the sound would certainly satisfy 99% of the population. I'll give it the geek review soon.

I love your Mac/Luxman/Wilson combination. I bet it's very sweet sounding.

Dave

dcstep November 08, 2008 07:49

This looks like a great setup Dave, one where I wish I lived near by as I think I'd really enjoy a listening session! Brian

brianmgrarcom November 08, 2008 07:01

Mapman asked:

"Did you have any power conditioning prior?"

Not really. I was using a PS Audio Duet. I don't think that it really conditions, only protects.

Dave

dcstep October 06, 2008 20:32

Oh darn....

albertporter October 06, 2008 20:24

Uhr. . . sorry cant do, we's havin' that other one real fine audiophile Albert Porter already fixed up real good for evenin' feedin' with us. . . . {snivvles! Snivvles!]

guidocorona October 06, 2008 20:21

Man, this system looks good.

Wish I was going to dinner with you at RMAF, along with Mike Lavigne and Guidocorona.

:^).

albertporter October 06, 2008 19:30

Dave,

That Furman looks like a nice add.

Did you have any power conditioning prior?

mapman October 06, 2008 18:33

System edited: A few weeks ago I added a Furman Elite-15 PFi power conditioner and distributor to the system. This is a very impressive and cost effect upgrade that added a lot to the solidity of bass reproduction. The convenience of 13-outlets is what started me looking and Soundings loaned me one to try on a Sunday. I called Monday to say that it wasn't coming back. Dave

dcstep October 06, 2008 12:50

Thanks.

The horns and guitars are always out on their stands, staring at me. That gets them some attention. I've got enough rehearsals and gigs that I'm forced to play a lot (mostly trumpet). My playing condition ebbs and flows, but I warmed up with a double-C yesterday, so I can't complain.

Dave

dcstep September 07, 2008 08:10

Dave,
You've put together quite a nice system. I'm wondering, though, as enamored as you've been lately with your system, are you finding time to practice on your Schilke and Selmer?

(O:

sherod September 06, 2008 23:02

System edited: I added two HRS Isolation Bases, one under the Pro-ject RM10 turntable and the other under the Playback Designs MPS-5 CD/SACD player. Both are mounted in an armoire and I expected improvement under the TT even though it was already on a Pro-ject base. Now it's double isolated, with the Pro-ject base and HRS base. The big surprise to me was that the Playback Designs' bass control and clarity in dense, loud scoring also improved pretty dramatically. I used the Finale of Mahler's 1st by the San Francisco Symphony directed by Michael Tilson Thomas on SACD as my comparative tool. I played the system loud through the speakers but listened through my Ultimate Ears Triple-fi 10 Pro IEMs (with 26dB of attentuation) to really focus on the sound and remove the prospect of comb filtering impacting my findings. These are very impressive devices, with a massive polished granite platform, supported by a heavy metal frame and springs tuned to the weight of your equipment. (This tuning is with relatively broad ranges, such as 5 to 25 lbs and 25 to 50 lbs and up to 400 lbs on custom order). Stock sizes range from 14"X19" to 21"X23". The prices vary with the size. Bottom line, they're very attractive and effective. I suspect that if I ever move my equipment out of the armoire that these will be even more important. Dave

dcstep August 31, 2008 16:31

See Playback Designs MPS-5 Review for a comparison of PD player to an Emm CDSA-SE player.

Dave

dcstep August 21, 2008 13:10

Guidocorona,

I don't know if they will be at the show but I doubt it.

You could call Ohm (contact info at www.ohmspeakers.com) and inquire. Most likely, the phone will be answered by John Strohbeen who is both the business and engineering brain behind Ohm and the Walsh/CLS speakers. If not, you can surely leave a message and I am most certain he would get back to you.

One of these years, maybe when the kids are grown and I have more control over my vacations, I really want to attend the RMAF. Sounds like a blast. Plus I've been to Denver and surrounding area on several occasions in the past and loved it.

mapman August 14, 2008 12:57

Good point Mapman, I'll look for Ohm Walsh S3's at RMAF. Do you know where they may be shown? G.

guidocorona August 14, 2008 12:47

Well, you won't find a dealer for sure in that they are only sold direct these days.

Also not likely to be at the show. Too bad.

The only way short of a trip to the east coast or finding another Agoner with them in your area (quite possible) would likely be Ohms in-house demo plan.

They (series 3) sound much more refined, detailed and balanced than what you heard back in the 80s and what was reviewed by Stereophile back in about 1988. I can say that confidently because I've had newer Walsh 2's with 100 S3 drivers and similar older Walsh 2s from the 80's set up in adjacent rooms in my house on the same system for a/B tests before I took the plunge on the big Walsh 5 S3s, and there was no comparison.

Oh well, there are lots of fish in the sea.....

mapman August 14, 2008 12:43

I haven't listened to Walsh since the mid-1980s. I'll look around CO for a dealer, but if they're not at the show and I can't drive to a dealer, that'll be a deal breaker for me.

Dave

dcstep August 14, 2008 12:35

Guidocorona,

The VA Muzick sound very nice indeed.

However they do cost $27000. Ohm Walsh S3's cost $1000-$6000. That's a big difference that might be invested elsewhere in a system if desired.

Which Ohm you get will depend largely on room size. They can go from small rooms to the largest and hold their own with the best speakers out there according to some published reviews.

They are also less finicky about room placement than any other comparable speaker I've owned, including B&W, Dynaudio and Magnepan.

They do share with the mahlers the need for "A high current amp with hi damping factor that will drive them stoutly with mucho control". A Musical Fidelity A3CR 100/w ch into 8Ohm doubling into 4 Ohm works well for me, though I know the larger Ohms would love as much clean power as I could throw at it, like maybe a 500W/CH ICE amp like DCs lovely Rowland.

mapman August 14, 2008 12:31

Perrew, as mentioned in my post above, I do own a pair of Mahlers. . . and they are absolutely fantastic speakers. But Mahlers need 3 things to give their best and not sound bloated or fuzzy:
1. a reasonably sized room with a goodly ceiling: (my room is about 18 ft x 16 with 11 inch coffered ceiling, opening to double high area of similar size via a half wall);
2. A high current amp with hi damping factor that will drive them stoutly with mucho control. . . I have driven them very successfully with JRDG 312 as well as NuForce Ref 9 SE. David's JRDG Continuum 500 may work even better because of added output capacitance compared to my 312. Other high current / high damping factor amps should work just fine.
3. Mahlers need to be placed very carefully in the room, otherwise the bass driver may sound overwhelming. Get a professional/dealer who knows how to apply to them the MasterSet procedure developed by Sumiko. . . e.g. Soundings Hifi.
Once you have taken care of the above, the Mahlers are marvellous: extended, linear, transparent, detailed, harmonically rich, tuneful in the bass, delicate at the top, very dynamic, amazingly nuanced. . . oh yes, did I mention that I like them? {grins!}

guidocorona August 14, 2008 11:53

Hi Mapman, interesting you bring up single driver speakers. . . the new Muzick are, in some sense single driver speakers with multi-driver extensions. See:
http://www.sumikoaudio.net/va/prod_themusic.htm
From memory, there is a central pistonic driver that cover the main 7 octaves of the audible range from about 100hz to about 20Khz; the speakers have 3 10 inch bass drivers: 2 of them in a separate enclosure cover the range from 100hz down to 18hz, and the 3rd driver bridges the midrange with the bass; The Muzicks then have a Mirada supertweeter at the top spanning 20Khz to 100Khz. Efficiency is 91Db. I will listen to these creatures at RMAF in October for the 1st time in the Soundings HiFi suite, I believe on the 5th floor in the Marriott Tower. Unfortunately, She Who MUST Be Obeyed will never let me buy them. . . because she already let me get a pair of Mahlers last year!

guidocorona August 14, 2008 11:32

Sounds like fun.

I'd also be interested in your findings regarding horns.

I doubt Ohm does these shows. They seem to keep a very low profile. They are very much a small mom and pop shop these days that operates largely on word of mouth and seem to like it that way.

You would need to do their in-home audition (recommended, its the best way to audition anything anyhow to see what it will really sound like in your room), which is no risk assuming you are comfortable with laying out the money up front and with shipping oriented tasks, or find someone local with a decent setup.

Also, as I think I stated, you're always welcome to come by my way for a listen if you get to the DC/Baltimore metro area.

Ohm ships the larger speaks like 300s and 5s in six separate solidly reinforced boxes (one grill, 1 CLS driver and 1 cabinet per speak), which helps make things safer and easier to handle. Assembly at your end is a piece of cake from there.

Have fun, whichever way things head!

mapman August 14, 2008 10:27

Yes Mapman, I plan to re-investigate the whole waterfront, including horns, electrostics, single-drivers and even Walsh. Fortunately the wife will be out of town for this RMAF and I'll devote three full days to getting almost totally up to date. (The poor setups at shows mean that you can't complete an investigation, but you can at least identify the leads worthy of further study. The truly horrible sounds at prior RMAFs give me slight dread, but it's worth the "work" in the long run).

The great thing about the Rowland is it sounds as good as any tube amp I've ever heard, so if I buy horn speakers I'll just have about 500 extra watts laying around. No harm in that, that I can see.

Dave

dcstep August 14, 2008 09:58

DC,

Sounds like you have some time before you move to bigger quarters and maybe upgrade speakers, you lucky guy!

If you have an opportunity, and are amenable to more of a single driver omni design that might even save you some $$$s perhaps, seek out and audition a pair of Ohm Walsh series 3 speaks. These might be anything from smaller 100 S3 drivers to larger 200, 300 or 5 S3, depending on room size. With your budget and the juicy Rowland amp, I'd go straight for the 300 series 3 or perhaps the slightly more expensive Walsh 5 series 3, but only if you like the idea of being able to adjust timbre and balance to the room at the speaker itself. I think you are a purist and would be better served by the slightly less expensive 300 series 3. I think, with nice finish, these would run <$6000.

Just a thought. I'd be interested in your observations if it happened, particularly with the big Rowland ICE gear.

Or with a more conventional box design, your certainly in good territory sticking with Vienna Acoustics.

Cheers!

mapman August 14, 2008 09:51

I love the Baby Grands in my current room; however, I plan to move to a large space with a dedicated music room with space to move up to The Music speakers just coming out from Vienna Acoustics. I'll need to hear them, of course, but that'll happen soon. I expect to make the move in mid 2009.

I love my simple, but purist system. It really works well in all respects.

If you don't already have LPs, I really would only recommend it as a side course, if you have the funds and desire to play with it. I love my LPs, but digital has caught up, IMHO. Still, there's something about taking out the full sized album, pulling the LP out, cleaning it, cleaning the stylus and then playing. The ritual is somehow satisfying and the music ain't bad.

Dave

dcstep August 14, 2008 09:26

200+ pounds sounds like it should do the trick.

You make a very good point about cost of LPs compared to digital media. My LP collection is nonexistent. Also I think the convenience factor of a server based solution speaks for a digital source. Although money can be an issue, for me its a lot about aesthetics. I think a very clean purist system comprised of very few components. e.g. CD+Integrated(or CDwithPre+Amp)+Speakers is very apealing in terms of looks,space and noise/disturbance factors. You only need one IC, two PCs and SCs as well.
Turntables look good though and the Raven is very tempting.
During the last months I have sold of all my gear except my Wilson WP7(these are going soon as well) and a Reciever, so I have a perfect opportunity at the moment to
pick a nice route in terms of gear. How do you find the Vienna Beethovens, are you planning on upgrading these soon, I got an offer to buy a pair of Mahlers?

I read a lot about audiofederation endorsing HRS and all the other gear there carrying seems to be top notch, so Itll be very interesting to hear your thoughts.

perrew August 14, 2008 08:04