This is a collection of equipment (note how I dont call it a system!), the purpose of which was for me to sample as much as possible prior to settling down to equipment I can use in a final room I am building with Rives. Needless to say, I ended up getting deeper and deeper in this, learning that reviews are typically falwed because (i) reviewers have specific motives, (ii) they dont generally have very good systems, and (iii) no system is perfect and therefore personal preferences matter a lot.
The room is by no means great but it is custom designed and measured. It works quite well, even though these speakers need more room to breathe.
Happy to answer questions about my experience with all this equipment, all of which is quite excellent in its own way. I have some on order which I will add when the time comes.
Other equipment I have owned include:
-Tenor 300hp
-MBL 9011 monos
-MBL 6010D preamp
-VTL 7.5 mk i and ii
-Audio Research Ref 3 preamp
-BAT 75se
-Other
UPDATE: Moved to new room, much more spacious and finally allowing me to sit within the prescribed distance for driver integration. Also, I cleaned up somewhat the amp list: I now use the Wavac 833 mkii (4 box) and for solid state the Class A Gryphon Colosseum Solos. Added to the preamps is the Soulution. All cables are Jorma Prime including an 8m length xlr. Power cords being changed all to Valhalla. Here you also see an attempt to test the continuum turntable through a wavac phono. The sound of the system has ameliorated appreciably and it is now starting to be a system after all. Very happy with it.
The sound from your wavac's sounds like that heard in my system which benefited from the use of Basis interconnects and speaker cables. I wonder if you have had a chance to try them. (As a reference not a brag-well a little)My system presently consists of Advangarde Duo's with the Omega mod, the drives have been adjusted with special wood brackets to allow better time alignment of all the driver diaphragms, a highly modified Antique Audio Phono amp with recording studio input step up transformers and 2A3 line stage to Art Audio PX25 mono amps with Basis wires. Cartridge is a XV1S on a Basis Debut with Vector arm. AC is filtered by CPCC power block and cords. One concern is the sound may be a little more dynamic than in real life. What be the solution?
Oanhu: I have not heard the art 3 at all and not in my system. I have heard good things about it and I think in some ways it might challenge the wavac but from those who own both I have not heard the art to be better. I would find it hard to beat the wavac sound frankly in its totality although I can see how some might prefer certain solid states.
Yuritepi: I have not used it much so it would be unfair to render an opinion here. I would say however that whenever I heard it, including in my system, I found it to be fast (in a good way), very detailed and with impressive bass for its size. Truth is that I dont know, if I ever find time to listen to it more I will report here.
Chemist: the following of FM especially in Asia is insane. these little boxes which cost more than anything have people here raving. My view, having heard of so many now, is that they certainly have their strengths. From experience, I now see these to be strengths of other class A amps too (eg Krell and I hope the Gryphon). The music is natural, fluid, the detail is amazing. The staging is large, deep. However, class A do not image as well as some of the other solid states (eg goldmund). They are more musical in some ways. FMs are a hybrid class A, whatever that means. They dont run as hot as some of the pure ones. For more on Class A, take a look at Pass' site, they have some white papers there.
Cchp, I am affraid I have not heard them. I have heard others of their models and I always leave impressed by them and quads (even more from the most recent quads.) some of the things they do, they do so well that one can easily forget about other systems. I think Richard might be using these speakers or was it someone else?
LBJefferies7: No, I have not. Although, some other speakers of similar design do work better in that configuration. I asked Gryphon and they insisted that the speakers are designed like this, so I did not insist. They are a bit particular since the crossover for the bass towers is high at 300hz, unlike say some of the large Genesis models where it was lower. But when I get into the new room (in about 1.5 years!) I will try them, since I have seen them in that configuration also. i think that to get the best of imaging on these speakers I need a larger room and 5m from the baffles, which is what Gryphon recommends. That would allow the drivers to blend. In the meantime, I will settle for amazing dynamics which are exacerbated by the smaller room as you can imagine. Good point though, some of the people helping me with my room made the same observation.
Ajay555: I think I have respectfully expressed my view on these mags in the past. I just think that it is the nature of the beast: they have motivations, they naturally have an audience they need to target and the nature of this hobby is such that subjective mumbo jumbo can live long. But they server a purpose which is to basically act as glorified advertising leaflets. Every now and then, good articles are included on technology etc. So long as one is realistic about expectations, no reason to not read them. Now that these mags are available digitally, i get them that way, run through them so fast that i dont even remember later if i read them except for whatever article I cared for, and they cost close to nothing...
Abosulutely Right!!! I feel that TAS and stereophile generally review large volume high-end products. All my stereo equipment brand has never been mentioned in any magazine or ads. And I have heard most of there Class A and A+ equipment. And in my grading system they are at best B+.
Did you ever try positioning the bass towers of the Poseidon on the outside of the main towers? Theoretically, you can get better imaging. With the very proper design of these speakers, imaging should be nothing short of astonishing anyway!!! ;)
I am also using Rives to build my room and in the process of testing equipment right now. So thanks for posting this and sharing your thoughts. Despite the tradeoffs, I will have the Martin Logan Statement E2 in my room and was wondering if you have tried these speakers and whether you have any thoughts on amps and preamps that optimize these speakers.
I enjoyed hearing your take on the FM Acoustics amp in comparison to the Goldmund and Krell. It's rare to hear of someone who's tried FM gear, hence my curiosity. Perhaps the most amazing system I've ever heard had a Goldmund Mimesis 9 driving a pair of IRS III's.
What's your take on the FM Acoustics amp in comparison to the others you have? It's rare to hear of someone who's tried their gear, hence my curiosity.
Jkstraw, Thank you for the kind words. Building an inexpensive system is no lesser a process than an expensive one. It also is the case that sometimes less is more. In terms of enjoying music, expensive does not mean always better (especially knowing how inconsistently these things are priced...) And many options can also impair you in actually enjoying the material. I guess what I am saying is that anyone that would "laugh" at your question is an idiot. ;-)
I hesitate to answer your question because it includes equipment I am not as familiar with. The Maggies are obviously good speakers, although I have found them at times to sound a bit lean. The addition of the sub seems to support that. I guess I would give a couple of tube amps a listen and see if they have sufficient power to make your speakers sing. VTL or CJ would not be a bad choice although I have no idea if they would combine well with the Bel Canto.
What I do fee more strongly about is your idea on digital. It makes a lot of sense. I recently recommended the i70 to a friend and I suggested to him to encode uncompressed in a flash based device such as an ipod touch (there is a program called MAX which is one of the best but not user friendly). Obviously involving you PC will not be perfect but if you are looking to save some $$$ that might be a place to try. You will be surprised by the quality you will get, assuming the i70 does what it is supposed to (I have not listened to it but I have ordered one.) Flash drives seem to perform better than others.
And, I would seriously consider digital equalization. I know this is not necessarily consensus view, but in a system like this the right equalization will help with getting rid of basic errors that we can all make in matching speakers with subs, not to mention overall room interactions. There is a lot of interesting research on this, leading to different approaches. But IMHO in most systems and rooms, good digital equalization helps, and sometimes a lot.
Hope this helps, keep us posted! I hope others will email you or chip in here.
Mihalis, I am very envious of your ability to construct such a collection of equipment, and the kindness in sharing your quantitative and qualitative analysis with the community. It's people like you that give a new and enthusiastic music lover a glimpse at what is possible - when trying to recreate all of the live music I have experienced, hoping to set in action those same wonderful waves of air in my home. Moreover, your help in educating others, the most important aspect of what you have done here. However, I fully understand you are busy with those "in-the-know" although if/when you find some time could you give my question a read, thanks.
As a beginning teacher (and new audiogoner) my funds are quite limited, allowing me to build a system that I am proud of, and most importantly, is pleasing to my ears, while yawned at by most here I'm sure, oh well. Forgive me if my audio language is not up to par but I'll try my best to speak the audiophile language. So far I have replaced my old JMLab 3.1 Dalines with new Magnepan MG12, my Yamaha DSP A-1 & ARCAM A65+ Int. Amps with a Bel Canto S300i USB (I would like to construct a computer based system as I am encoding all of my music using xACT to Lossless format), Nordost Blue Heaven speaker flatline, and keeping my old Miller & Kreisel mark IV sub for now. I need and would gratefully appreciate your expert advice as to a good power amp to pair with the Bel Canto, or even with the ARCAM while using the S300iu as only a DAC, possibly paired with the wadia i170. Don't laugh but I only have roughly $3500 to spend on a power amp. I know it's not much but is there something you might suggest that would bring out the best in my Maggies (clean, quiet, fast, musical), and bring my digital music source to life?
Wizard1, the Soulution was a try of only the preamp. I have increasingly had the preference of Class A sound (and tubes) so I dont think I would go that route for amps. I have heard them though and I would say that they seem to offer very high resolution, more fuidity than say goldmund but also not the holographic imaging that Goldmund can produce.
The Krells are amazing amps. Class A all the way. Not at all what one would expect from their reputation as brutes. Obviously they have amazing power but they are very continuous, very very detailed and often (in combination with the preamp) produce the greatest depth I have had in my system. They are one of the best in my view.
To answer also questions from Lula and Cmarin: I love the wavacs for reasons I think I stated earlier. I am upgrading to the next up. They have most of the best feasures of other amps without any of the electronic stuff. You are not impressed by anything but how transparent they are. I doubt there are any truer tubes out there.
I also like a lot the FM acoustics models. The 411 I have has similar high resolution and fluidity as the Krell, huge stage but not the imaging of Goldmund.
I would rather not rank as at this level it is a matter of taste, system matching and maybe even type of music (eg classical through the Goldmunds is a pleasure.)
The Darts, although cheaper than any of these, hold their own very well. I have not noticed weaknesses in slam but dont forget that my system is self powered below 300hz so I would probably not know even if they exited. I would guess this is a matter of matching with the right amps: you have to account for some limitations in power. But my view is that speakers should anyway be very sensitive and easy to drive to produce the best dynamics regardless of accompanying power amp.
So yes, they are a wonderful pre and power combo, I prefer it to say my previous amps like mbl 9011, lamm 1.2r etc. The sounds is not tubey or class A (many say tubey but I never felt that) and rather closer to Goldmund and other non Class A amps of the best quality. I would think that other serious contenders at that price range would include the new Gryphon stereo Colisseum, the Boulder stereo etc.
I am not surprised that the mbls pre is not producing the slam you want. I did not think the 6010d had it either (I think I have characterised it as "slow" somewhere previously.) That is just my opinion but I view the Dart as a far superior amp. By quite a margin.
Mihalis, thanks for your thoughts on the Dartzeel pre and the MBL 6010D. I have heard neither but I have had the 5011 in my system and found it to sound very transparent and sweet, much like the 10K Levinson preamp. However, I found both lacking the slam and mid-bass fullness that I value which my 380S has. I would expect the 6010D to have much more slam and body than its' little brother. From what I've read and been told the Dartzeel pre has a very articulate bottom end, but lacks some slam and body in that area. Do you agree?
Congratulations on following such a systematic approach to figuring out what works best for you.
Paralleling Maxx2man's question about your three favorite preamps, what are your three favorite amps? How does the DarTZeel rank relative to this group? Thanks. Cmarin
Maxx2man, hard one to answer as some of my equipment is not here. For example, the Lyra Connoisseur is considered by some to have been one of the top preamps. We ll see how the new version (new power supply) fears but I assume very well.
I do like the wavac a lot, especially because of its transparency and natural presentation. No electronic sound at all. Maybe the best.
The Gryphon Mirage has a very similar presentation actually. Extremely natural, very transparent, great stage. Depth is slightly weaker than I think it should be (this might have to do with all kinds of equalization and room issues) and I find that tonal colors can be sometimes slightly on the lean side.
The Vitus is breaking in after the upgrade so I will need to wait on that as it is a great preamp.
I tried out the Soulution which is actually an interesting cookie. Maybe Goldmund type of sound but a bit warmer, more natural.
All these are so good that they need to be listened to. I have not found partnering equipment to matter much. Through the best amps, I can hear the preamp character (eg through the wavac amps.
out of all the preamps that you've tried, could you list your three favs with a brief description why? you've obviously had some of the very best, and i'm sure many of us would find this helpful.
Mihalis, if you have the opportunity I would advice you to visit Mike Lavignes room for a listening session, then you'll know why so many seasoned audiophiles have gone for the MM3/Dart combination, even Herve himself...
Lula, on your question about preamp comparisons between the Dartzeel and the MBL. Let me first say that I used to own the MBL, I also owned the 9011s. I found both to be inferior to anything you currently see in my system. I say this confidently because it was not a thin margin.
The mbl preamp does not provide the resolution that the Dartzeel does. It also does not have the tonal color accuracy. I found imaging to be more solid with the Dartzeel and depth to be greater. The MBL does sound a bit sweeter and slower. Some compare it to tubes which I cant opine on because the only tube preamp I own is the Wavac and it is heads and shoulders above the MBL, without having any of the "tubey" characteristics people attribute.
My observations were supported by the majority of people who had heard the mbls in my system and who are audiophiles or designers. All but one (who subsequently sold his) thought the preamp to lack dynamics.
The Dart is a very accomplished preamp. I would say that when you go solid state and you are not using class A equipment at the amplifier level, you lose some of the liquidity and tonal accuracy that you get with Class A. The Dartzeel combo faces that issue too and it sounds a bit more like Goldmunds in that regard.
Having said that, the person to whom I sold the 9011s (which are different in character in some ways than the 9011s) is extremely happy with the combo. So take my comments for what they are worth: subjective evaluation in my own specific system.
Wow - this is a magnificent statement and no doubt sounds absolutely incredible! Congratulations on assembling such a SOTA system.
"Not a System" is a clever name but I could not help thinking of "Lord Farquaad's Castle" when I see your incredibly impressive towers - especially the photo angle.
Hi Mihalis. .... How does the Jorma Prime compare to the Valhalla. Have you had an opportunity to Listen to the Nordost Odins. Are they the Magic Bullet that the press writes about ?
You are a very astute member. I was sold a pair of Von Schweikert VR7 SE's and then a pair of Evolution Acoustics MM2's. I've offically left "The Group" and now own Hansen Audio The Prince speakers. No regrets! I'm certain you are much better off with the Poseidon's. They are from a very well know company that will be around for the foreseeable future should you need service.
