Dear Carlos, As one of the few Forsell owners I have found, can you suggest a reliable technical with previous experience in Forsell repairs ? I'm located in Australia, but after 4 years and 3 repairers, I still have a non working MK II unit !
Regarding your post of 7-14-09 to Mitch4t: the impact, if not primacy, of the source material is paramount! What occurs - or for that matter, doesn't occur - between the recording of the first note and its reproduction in the audio system is simply astonishing!
"...the power of the mastering studios equipments' abilities to manipulate the spatial, spectral and tonal presentation of the recordings..." I absolutely concur.
Carlos, Maybe you should replace the word "pretentious" with "generous" or "gracious" in your thread title. Thank you for responding so quickly and thoroughly. I have a vague and rudimentary understanding of the very broadest aspects of what you're describing. Case in point: The original "Cars" album, as mastered by Steve Hoffman on gold disc on the DCC label (catalog # GZS-1032) is one of the finest sounding CD's that I own, and its release date is 1995. He's apparently a very well regarded mastering engineer.
I've neither the time nor the financial wherewithal to pursue your path, but have been fortunate enough to nevertheless make it off the merry-go-round, thanks to the Intuitive Design Summits. Still, it's intriguing to ponder what could be accomplished when one's already satisfied, and just wanting to push the envelope that much further. Thank you for sharing, and happy listening.
Fred is correct, just like any other hobby or passion, things are always a "work in progress" and in a "constant state of flux"; this endeavor is no different. And just like everything else in life, you don't get a free lunch; it is always a world of compromises.
The flexibility of this approach is very powerful and yields as much as your knowledge of the electrical processes and the theories of psychoacoustics will allow.
The one-shot trial and error substitutions that are the current basis of the audiophile doctrine are replaced by predictable, systematic, repeatable, scalable and defeatable operations.
The power of convolution processors, linear-phase filters, sampled reverbs and spatial matrixing is much more compelling and efficient than power-cord, speaker-cable, interconnect, cleaning solution, fuses, isolation/coupling devices, tonearm, cartridge or even source component swapping.
A simple way to test this approach for free is to listen to two different mastered versions of the same recording or to an original version compared to a re-mastered edition. Even XRCD's and K2HD CD's are products of re-mastering and see how much difference the process makes as compared to cable or fuse swapping, for instance.
I'll stop here before I consume my entire vacation posting instead of listening.
Mdhoover: It takes a deep understanding of psychoacoustics as well as quiet a bit of research into mastering techniques and the fundamentals of audio reproduction. It is a VERY expensive road but the trial and error or experimentation is free after the equipment is bought and assembled. There is no on-shot trial and error expensive endeavors such as those involved such as swapping power-cables, interconnects, speaker-cables, isolation devices, and even in most cases component substitutions. It is neither a quick nor an easy road and at times, early on, it can be very frustrating but once you understand what each knob is for and what needs to be adjusted to get the desired effect or end result then the process becomes VERY rewarding and instantaneously satisfying in a VERY predictable fashion. To reverse the changes or to A/B two different settings is usually a matter of pressing a couple of buttons in most cases. This is a VERY powerful process by which you can dial the sound and reproduction in just as you desire without the hassle of the expensive and time consuming audiophile trial and error roller coaster.
While Carlos was kind enough to try to explain the theory to me, I quickly became lost in the technical details; however, he was able to demonstrate a thorough understanding of the various techniques used in the studio to manipulate various aspects of the sound. He was also able to demonstrate that he could selectively manipulate various aspects of his system's sound. This manipulation was far more broadreaching than merely frequency response. The degree of flexibility was eye opening. Note that this is not to say that this approach is perfect or that it does not add certain artifacts to the final sound; however, this is a valid approach to the recreation of music in a home environment.
How does one develop skill at mastering other than by trial and error and lots of time, and lots of money? (That sounds like a rather difficult and time consuming endeavor to me, but I'm almost completely ignorant on that subject.)
I have visited Carlos a number of times and can confirm that he does in fact have a stategically placed listening chair as well as supplemental seating to the side at a bench. He is a superb host, if just a bit obsessive compulsive. As you can tell from the photos, the room is packed with collectible equipment and software.
Mitch4t, Please click on the Seamless Interface Electro Acoustiques Big Dog Signature picture to clearly view my listening chair. These pictures could use some updating as the room has even more exciting equipment in it now.
It is much more of an audio-laboratory's listening room than a recreational room if you know what I mean.
My interest have now moved me away from the world of audiophilia, to the mastering studio side of things. Once you comprehend the power of the mastering studios equipments' abilities to manipulate the spatial, spectral and tonal presentation of the recordings, then you quickly realize the much of the audiophile doctrine is one big swindle and you begin to once again concentrate on the basic goal, which is to recreate performances, instruments and music that sound "real" to "you".
. All of you have missed the most obvious piece of equipment that is necessary for his system to work....a chair. He has no chair and nowhere to sit and listen in that place...which makes it a workshop or a storage unit, but certainly not a listening room. .
Seabreeze, Thanks for the nice comments. Believe it or not, although it is not "organized" as some, or most, would like it to be, it is organized enough for my needs. I have advanced degrees is both Physics and Electrical Engineering; and Acoustics and Psychoacoustics are two of my interests, along with circuit design, so trust me when I say that I got it under control.
As far as teaching most of the so call experts around here a thing or two, lets just say that most of them are not even familiar with most of the gear in my room; there are many rare collectible and exotic pieces that most have not even heard of. I am VERY happy with the sound of my reference system. About a year ago I made a tongue-in-cheek challenge to compare reference systems but so far no takers.
Again, Thanks for the comments and I hope that you enjoy your system as much as I enjoy my equipment. Although this is about the music, most get caught up in the great audiophile swindle, forget about the substance and focus on "flavor of the month" components rather than finding and holding on to components of merit; most just jump on the component merry-go-around and waste their money on pseudoscience tweaks and the use of overpriced cables as tone control. It takes more than money to assemble a truly great system; you have to understand the art and science of sound reproduction for one; this of course is not a requirement for enjoying ones system but it helps.
Well, I better get off of my soap box or the moderator will not allow this post.
CARLOS269 my man,all these boys are missing the point,you could take them all to school and teach them a thing or two. With so much gear and experience, I am willing to bet you could take each of there system to the next level.
Sure your disorganized,your place kind of reminds me of my first venture back in the day to a store in Coney Island that use to sell used audio equip.I havn't seen anyone offer to help you organize, You have mine.
Vicente, Yes the Passeq would work but it would not be the way that I would go for your room mode problem. I would try to do the correction in the digital domain. I saw on your system page that you have not had any luck with either the Tact or Z-Systems digital domain filters; and you state that they were not transparent enough for you. I just do not see how an analog, even a passive filter network, is going to be a more transparent solution for you. With that said, the most highly regarded digital eq/filter is the Weiss EQ-1 Mk.2, especially the one with the Linear Phase (LP) option. It is widely regarded as the most transparent eq/filter on the market and is a key tool at all the major mastering houses. I think that the use of a $11K eq for your application is overkill. You can certainly use it for correcting recordings in addition to taming the room nodes. In any event, that is my take on it. I would start with experimenting with the Behringer DEQ-2496 prior to taking the plunge on the Weiss. I know that you have tried the Tact and Z-systems, but the Behringer does a very good job if used in full digital mode, with digital input and output. Another great option is the Junger e07 at $7k. Hope that this helps.
I'm afraid that it only has gotten more crowded since these pictures were actually taken. But in all honesty, the sound of my reference system has gotten so good/real, to the point where I have stopped my purchases all together. It doesn't hurt to keep some reference level products around as you do not have to rely on your aural memory with this approach as the comparison equipment is just a few feet away. One other reason for keeping the extra equipment is that most of them are rare and collectible that I would have an almost impossible task of attempting to find again if I sold these and tried or ever wished to listen to them again. I have tried in the past to thin out the herd but what remains is here to stay. Were else are you going to find the elusive NRG Control 400 Watts Class A monsters, the top Dynavector Tube Preamp and Amplifier, the ViVa 300P, the Technik Avant Garde Model One Ultimate version, the Forsell Air Reference in Mk.IV edition, the Einstein prototypes, Ricardo Kron's personal Vacuum Transistor monoblock amplifiers, the Manley/Simmon Yorke Zarathustra phono stage and motor controller, rare turntables from Transrotor and Micro-Seiki, the Audion three-piece reference phono stage, the Digital Audio Denmark AX24,, the Z-Systems Reference Digital Mixer, the mighty Sony K-1183 designed ONLY for in-house use at the Sony Classical recording studio in NYC, rare amps from Nestorovic, HotHouse, speakers from Essence Electro Acoustics, the mighty Big-Dog signature edition,rare preamps from Klyne, Burmester, Rowland, ElectroLuv, subs from Mach One Acoustics and ..............
Hello, I see you have a SPL Passeq there. I have a room mode at 31hz (10db) and a 2nd order one at 62hz (5db). Since no room treatment that I know goes down to 31hz I am looking for the best possible passive eq to solve the 31hz problem. Do you think the SPL Passeq is the answer? Thank you, Vicente
