My 861 is here to stay. The Wilson's will stay for as long as I stay in my house. A bigger house might warrant some different speakers, but not yet.
800 series v1.6 Meridian has been added to accompany the 861 - one of the best pre-amps out there - never mind prcessors...no upsampling from the 800 as it's only v1. Makes ease of use much better as well as the sound!
I have now bought Kubala Sosna Emotion cables (interconnect and speaker) which I can't properly use (still!) as I accidentally blew my tweeters! So the Sonus Fabers are back at the front for the time being.
I did A/B of KS versus Virtual Dynamics and *in my system* there was a clear winner - KS. Imaging is now some of the best I've heard. Not qutie the openess I heard with the VD Revelation cable, but I could not get it to image well at all. However in my dealers (halcro pre/power plus Acappella High Violins) system, the difference was much less clear cut - it depends on so many things - they are both good cables!
New cabinet has taken away the DIY feel to the system and new heavy curtains have done wonder for imaging and sound overall.
System edited: Picture added of 800 in position. Not got rid of Arcam yet. Nearly there! (For the first round of upgrades that is - this is the all out assualt catagory after all!) Since I have done this first round of upgrades, my home insurance has tripled!!
Much better speakers are only really possible in a new house as my room is on the first floor and it's probably not strong enough - plus there is the stairs! Also the room is 12' * 16' at it's smallest going to 16' * 16' at it's largest, so that type of speaker currently may be overkill.
I'm very impressed with your system - especially since I'm familiar with the Sophia sound. If I had to choose between my Martin Logan Summits and the Sophia, it would be difficult choice.
Nice system and good luck with future endeavors. I read that you are aiming for some ultra-high end speakers.... VR9s and Maxx2 or greater? Go all out or go home, that's my motto!
I have exchanged a few emails with Lamm about their 1.2 refs, and whilst I'm sure they want to sell me some, they are warning me about the heat issue. I was thinking about putting silent fans at the back of the cabinet to assist airflow.......am I mad in persuing these amps, or should I buy a pair of Krell FBP 450's and settle for second (albeit good) best......or a Dartzeel??
Shadorne - I have not heard comparably price pre-amps, but I'd like to. It seems a bit of a waste though if I have to run two systems, plus an external crossover for a sub. It would be a very expensive job considering the marginal improvement that *may* be available.
Also - sorry for terrible pictures - (from my phone), but my battery charger for digital camera is broken.
System edited: Sonus Faber to the fore whilst I wait for some new tweeters from Provo. New cabinet is great and heavy curtains are a masterstroke for a sound improvement - the wife paid for them!!
Great system. It must sound awesome. I fully agree with your comments about using a good DSP preamp for both stereo and HT applications. The elimination of an additional high end dedicated preamp for two channel audio is very practical. DSPs can do a lot to optimize your room for HT applications ...so why not for stereo sound too. A quality multichannel preamp can be just as good for two channel as the best of them.
Every time I try and mess about with them, something happens. I tried to a/b the virtual dynamics vs kubala sosna and one hour in, I blew both tweeters. they have not yet Been repaired. I have obviously just fitted the room treatment panels and I have my new av cabinet downstairs which I can't get up the stairs and will have to bring over the balcony !
Kubala Sosna Emotion cables have arrived and they are different kettle of fish - at least physically anyway!
They are the same physical size, but are wiggly worms in comparisons to the rods that are Virtual Dynamics.
I've only plugged the interconnects in to get used to the sound. I'm struggling to get the imaging back - everything is clearer, but a bit dispersed - I need to move the Wilson's around something like 2mm at a time - it is hard work, but unlike some - I find this bit fun.
System edited: Room treatment panels added - sorry bad pics - my camera is on the blink - I did this with my phone. The image is massively improved - a much more significant improvement than the much more expensive cables I am trialling at the moment.
Rug has arrived and is doing a great job taking the edge off my slap echo - still more to go though.
I have collected a pair Virtual Dynamics Revelation speaker cables and a VD Master series power cord.
I have only had the 24 hours - but here is my initial impression:
This is the most important bit - and it has nothing to do with sound. These cables are like braided hoses, as stiff as a broom handle. I have really fought with them to get them in a position to work. I have just about managed to do this with my speaker cables, but it involved wrapping them into a large coil to access my Sophias from above. There are large magnets at the end of the cables within the cable itself, and this wants to grab hold of the other cable at all times which is very difficult when you are trying to connect it all up.
The power cord weighs a lot and will not stay in the back of my CD player. It is currently hanging out of the back of my processor, propped up by the radiator behind it. (The radiator is switched off!)
Right sound - the speaker cable gives me more of everything, speed, weight, top and bottom end. It does sound very good indeed. This I expected since it is 2 orders of magnitude more than the cable it replaced. Since I currently don't have a comparable cable in *my* system it is difficult to say. Power cable - Irrespective of whether I plug it in the power amp or the processor, the output goes up by 2dB - according to my SPL Meter. Also the noise floor has come down *a bit*. But this noise floor is new to me as I couldn't hear it with my Sonus Fabers - only with the more revealing Wilson's.
It is very difficult to do A/B testing with my old cables as getting the VD kit in and out is *very* difficult! (It took me 3 hours to connect the speakewr cables)
I have also since organised a home trail of the Kubala Sosna Emotions which I think will sound similar and are a similar price range to the Revelation. We shall see - they should arrive next week when these have to be returned.
I would also like to thank Rick at VD and Joe at KS for helping me organise this demo. I can assure you I will be buying one of them now!
Room treatment panels (absorbtion) are coming for front and rear walls. Rug is coming for the wooden floor. When they arrive, plus I'm demoing some cabling, I post some more pictures.
I tend to switch my 861 between Trifield (4.1 set-up) and Direct (2.0 - straight through set-up) quite a bit when I'm listening and I *tend* to agree with you. Sometimes the Sophias sound like they need a bit of reinforcement - this could easily down to the amp working hard as much as any limitation of the speakers.
I have never heard the Sonus Faber, so I can not comment on the differences you are hearing. I am just a little surprsied. I wonder if the warmer feeling is coming from the intrinsic sound of the sonus faber enclosure. I can not "hear" any contribution from the cabinet in the wilsons.
From looking at the limited pictures you have posted I would agree that your room is probably a huge part of your problem.
As for integrating your sub with the sophias, I went through the same thing with my sunfire signature sub. Once I had completed adding all the rest of my components (bigger amp and dedicated pre-amp) I found that the bass was outstanding and the use of a sub became unnecessary. Actually I found the bass of the Sohpias to be much quicker, tonally correct, and more truthful to music than the sunfire could provide. And damn do they go deep. The sunfire only added loundness and robbed the sophias of those great attributes. I would recommend fixing the room interactions and keeping the sub for your home theatre only.
I would be very interested to hear how the Lamm's sound with the Sophias. Have you heard hem on the Sophia's?
The Sonus Fabers, albeit much less expensive had a boxier sound, much warmer and on both the spoken voice and less congested singing sounded more natural than through the Wilsons. There is much more detail in the top and bottom end on the Sophias. A number of frequencies sound really exagerated and painful at high SPLs - I strongly suspect this is slap echo and will post pictures of my room treatment panels when they arrive. I found the SFs integrated very well with my sub, which I don't use so much any more, but I'm tempted to keep and turn down a bit, or perhaps even get another one and put them in two corners of the room.
Also, although it still sounds pretty good to me, I also suspect the Krell is struggling now using 4 channels out of five. Hopefully adding some hybrid Lamm's at some stage should iron some of this out. There are still a number of weaknesses in this system and I feel like I'm trying to iron them out all at the same time, held back by cost!
Can you elaborated on the differences that you have noticed between the Sonus Faber and the Wilsons.
I have not found the Sophias to be bright at all (but I have an all tube set up, which will make a difference for sure). My guess is that you are hearing more of the true voice of the Krell than you may be wanting to hear. I recently had an oportunity to hear an all Krell set-up (Resolution 2 speakers, showcase DVD, multichannel processor and multichannel amp). I listened manly in two channel with music I was very familar with on two seperate occations. Without going into too much detail, my system, with the sophias, outperformed the krell system in every "audiophile" respect. The krell set-up was "bright" despite being in a well dampened room. Just a thought...
Sophia is now repaired and I'm just starting to listen. It does sound bright on congested material down to many things - the Krell and Wilsons are unforgiving anyway, I have slap echo like crazy and, and, and.....
That said they do sound good. Living with a Sophia as a right channel and a Sonus Faber as a left for a few weeks was interesting. You could really tell their sonic character apart - and even though the Wilsons are an order of magnitude more expensive, they are not as good as the Sonus Faber in some aspects.
I have a few more upgrades in the near future - pictures to follow!
I'm still sorting them out soundwise - I think a tweeter got disconnected or damaged when they were shipped. I'm taking them to the UK distributor tomorrow to see if it is wiring or a new tweeter that is needed.
When all that is done I will concentrate a bit harder on getting them in the right place and taming down my terrible slap-echo room. Hence all the sofa cushions!
