how does one go about assembling a system that can qualify to be listed in the category,"ALL OUT ASSAULT." One way is to read up on a few years of "recommended components" lists from the high end magazines and venture out, with a fat wallet, to visit a few premium audio salons. By just BUYING the top products on the lists, you'll certainly make the audio salons happy , and hopefully, even you may be satisfied by owning the best money can buy. Having years of personal experience in owning many types of excellent audio gear adds a level of surety that only experience can add. Going through this process often enough, you may come to the conclusion that you may never get "THE MIXTURE " that you've been looking for. As the saying goes,"If you want it done right, do it yourself". There is also a saying that tells us, "Do what you do best ,and leave the rest to others." Time has also taught me the importance of another saying, "Do what you think is best." This submission i am presenting is based on preferences I have developed since I built my first piece of audio gear back in 1955 . Back then you could build just about everything in the audio chain yourself. Technology is just a bit more complicated in this day and age, but nevertheless, I feel the possibility still exists to build what you cannot buy, at least in the field of loudspeakers. The following system concepts are those I adhered to when i decided to start this project . Now to begin.-- Restraints of size, cost , or time would not enter into the equation. The room should always comes first, and mine did. Determine the size room you want, and design it along sound acoustic principles. Electronics; Having owned solid state amps for 20 years, along with the power requirements of the system i had in mind , there was no other choice . Solid state ,discrete topology, pure Class A analogue design throughout the entire audio chain. Crossovers; electronic crossovers were employed throughout due to the flexibility needed in designing and building a loudspeaker system that might sail into uncharted waters. All 7 channels would be bass restricted below 60 hz, via the processor , with the subs handling everything below. Electronic equalization; multichannel parametrics operating below 300 hz would be employed on all 8 channels to augment the reduction or elimination of low frequency room resonances not fully addressed by the use of acoustic panels , traps, and diffusers. Loudspeaker design; 3 front towers, identical 9 ft - 4 inch line sources in a horizontal D'Appolito array, four side and rear surround towers, 7 ft- 4 inch line sources in left and right mirror image configuration. Drivers; 15 inch metal cone -high excursion drivers for the subs. Front channels; 7 inch kevlar cone dynamics for mid bass, planar dipole for the midrange, leaf tweeters for the dipole highs. Surround towers; 8 inch kevlar cone drivers for the mid bass, 5 1/2 kevlar cones for the midrange, Revelator domes for the highs. All dynamic drivers, except for the subs, sourced from the same manufacturer to maintain a coherent sonic sign, ature. Drivers and electronics identical to the four surround towers would be in place when processing becomes available for the rear center channel, an 8.1 system configuration. All the dynamic drivers within the system to be in their own separate, sealed enclosures. Baffles for all the dynamic drivers, except the subs , to be either 1 1/2 or 2 inch thick high gloss, black, cast polymer. [ The amount of time I logged from start to finish for construction of the loudspeakers only, amounted to a bit over 5400 man hours spread over 3 years of time. ] Interconnects; XLR type balanced cables used exclusively from the processor through to the 12 stereo amplifiers that are used to drive the 7.1 system; after all, balanced interconnects are what's used to record everything we listen to. Fine tuning of acoustic treatment and and installation of the decorative woodwork trim in the room would be performed after ETF measurements were taken when the complete system was in place , and up and running. At this point in time, both the trim and acoustic treatment are being completed. Upgrades; The 135 inch, widescreen formatted, Stewart electroscreen is to be replaced with a 155 inch, letterbox formatted, Microperf with side electromasking. The Sanyo PLV 70 will then be replaced with a Runco or Vidikron projector with the Cinewide and Autoscope lens features. The last upgrade will be more enjoyment and less work.
this 7.1 processor sends all signals to the amplification chain via balanced interconnects
Krell Krell DVD Standard
full featured , progressive scan dvd player
Krell sacd standard
plays 2 channel and multi channel sacd's
Krell FPB-200
two fpb 200 amps handle the leaf tweeter banks in the three front channels
Krell FPB-300
four fpb 300 amps handle the 4 surround towers. one fpb handles the rear center channel in the eventual 8.1 system
Krell FPB-600
Three fpb 600 amps handle the mid bass and mid range sections of the three front channels. two fpb 600 amps handle the two sub woofer channels
Krell KBX
four KBX 3 way mono electronic crossovers, and two kbx 2 way stereo electronic crossovers.handle frequency division within the system.
Krell Krell Link Controller
Three krell link controllers are used to synchronize remote control operations where multiple amplifiers are used in various situations(stereo, ht 5.1, 7.1 etc)
Krell KPE Reference
solid state phono head amp
Rives Audio PARC, & PARC PLUS
3 Parametric analog room correction equalizers tame room anomolies on all 8 channels in 3 chosen bands per channel
DOMINION VIRGINA POWER 26KVA LINE XFORMER
Audiophiles that have neighbors with noisy appliances have one of 2 choices; put up with it or use power conditioners that clean the power . Since we had a current demand that made power conditioners out of the question, 12 Krell fpb amps , plus source components, the best solution was to have our own line transformer installed by virginia power. When the quality of the power source was considered, this was the only choice.
American Power Conversion APC Smart UPS 2200VA USB
This conditioner/ battery back up is utilized to maintain the coherance of the operation of the sequenced krell link system with the hts 7.1 controller, the 12 fpb amps in the system, along with the various signal devices in the event of a power outage. We typically have at least 6 or more power outages in virginia durring the course of a year. two-6 outlet conditioners are used in the system protecting all signal and control components
APC APC Smart UPS 1100 UPS
one ups on the krell links- one ups on the PVL 75 projector
Personally designed and built Four- 7ft,4in surround towers,
These mirror image line sources each contain 6 scan speak 8 inch kevlar cone bass drivers operating from 60 to 500 hz thru a krell kbx xover @12 bd per octave. 6 scan speak 5 in kevlar cone mid drivers operating from 500 to 3500 hz @ 12 bd per octave. 6 scan speak revelator tweeters from 3500 hz and up @ 12 db per octave- passive xover between the mids and tweeters. a fpb 300 drives each tower thru a krell kbx xover. all drivers are mounted in their separate sealed enclosures. The mirror image baffles are hi gloss black cast polymer weighing 175 lbs and were manufactured by the author.
Personally designed and built, 3 identical front channels
3 way , 9 ft 4 inch line sources configured with a horizontal d'appolito array. Each tower contains the following drivers; 24 scan speak 7 inch kevlar cone mid bass drivers each in their own sealed baffle. 4 Bohlander Graebner rd-50 planar mid range drivers operating in a dipolar configuration, and 40 panasonic eas 10 th-400a leaf tweeters, 30 facing to the front and 10 facing rearward,wired out of phase for dipolar radiation
Personally designed and built, 3 way rear center channel
This horizontal d'appolito array speaker is identical to the 4 surround line arrays with the exception that it is in a horizontal configuration at the rear of the room 8 feet above the floor . It will be put into service when processing is available for an 8.1 surround configuration
Personally designed and built, Sub woofer towers
The two mirror image sub towers EACH contain 8- 15 in high excursion, metal cone drivers sourced from tc sounds. a krell fpb 600 is used to drive each tower with 4 woofers driven by each side of the amplifiers. the sub towers handle all the information below 60 hz for the 3 front and 4 surround towers. The 60 hz crossover frequency and 24 db slope is provided by the krell hts 7.1 processor.
Sota Millennia
vacum table with electronic speed control
triplainar 12 inch series vII
latest version of this legendary tonearm
Shelter 90X
Shelter's top of the line moving coil cartridge
Stewart Tech screen 130 microperf
The 135 inch , widescreen formatted , Stewart electroscreen is triggered by the krell hts 7.1 controller
Sanyo PLV 75 projector
2200 ansi lumen, widescreen , hi def lcd projector
Pioneer Elite CD CLV laser disc player
This model was the last, reference level, laser disc player manufactuted by pioneer befor the death knell of that format.
Direct TV HD DVR HR 10-250
DSS Hi Def receiver-DVR directly feeding the sanyo hi def projector via the digital -DVI input
Thompson DRD 486DH
Two - dss receivers facilitate simoutaneous viewing and recording of different channels
TIVO Tivo series 2
Two -80 gig units, one each on the 2 dss channels for time shift and convenience viewing.
Pioneer DVR 510 H
Two- 80 gig dvr recorders for archiving programs from the two tivo series 2 dvr's
Belden-neutrik Belden 8014 Quad star-2
this tripple shielded, mogami type, rubber coverd cable terminated with neutrik's best xlr connectors carry all the signals, in ballanced mode, from the processor right thru to the 11 krell amps.driving the system.
Luminous audio digital -optical interconnects
digital sources are connected to the hts 7.1 using the above commectors.
Luminous Audio Silver reference
This 8 ga silver litz wire is used to connect the speakers to their respective amplifiers. Since the amps are located directly at the speakers they drive, the lengths are generally less than two feet. terminations are all cardas premiun lugs. speaker binding posts are those used by krell on their fpb amps
carol cable and wire 10-3 neoprene coverd power cord
all the amps are fed with 10-3 copper supply cords terminated with wattgate iec plugs on one end and hubbel 30 amp, 4 prong, 220 volt twist-lock plugs on the supply end.
I see that this thread started out in '05 - any more new developments or pictures that you can share. I also live in Richmond, VA and didn't think that anyone here listed to real music (just rap and country).
Your rig is amazing and your wife is one patient woman who must live down the street in another house!
Nothing conveys the emotion of music and film better than large speakers set up in a purpose designed room. Couple them with good electronics, with excessive power overkill, and you have a combination that's hard to beat.
This combination does present some problems. Unless you have the opportunity to listen before you buy, making corrections on a big system can be not only expensive but time disheartening as well.
There is absolutely no problem in driving the system. It uses 12 Krell FPB stereo amps. 5-600's on the 3 front towers and the left and right subs, 200s on the tweets. The 5 surround towers each use a 300.
After I decided on the choice of drivers, I spoke with Krell regarding the driver configuration --- series parallel etc. so that the load impedance presented to the amps would maximize their power delivery to the speaker banks. Since Krell supplied the 5 KBX electronic crossovers, they knew what their amps needed to do.
All the amps are configured to run on 220 VAC and are each fed from a dedicated circuit. Using 220 and #10 copper wire for each circuit pretty much assures the fact that the Krell's won't run out of juice.
Thanks for the comment, but it's pretty hard to outdo Albert. He's a pretty amazing guy in many ways. I hope to have him here soon after my turntable is finished and set up. He's a dyed in the wool tube guy and I'm 100% solid state. It will be an interesting visit I'm looking forward to.
I thoroughly enjoyed our conversation, it was both interesting and informative. I wouldn't have called you at work just to chew the Audiogon rag. After reading your posts to an analog thread, I knew am accelerometer would be on my wish list. Our conversation resulted in a sale for your company and I appreciate your help and direction in choosing an accelerometer and charge amplifier. Now I just need to learn to use it.
Regarding prototypes; I had used some of the drivers I employed before, in other speakers I built. However , the more drivers you use in a larger multi way system, in this case a four way system, the more complexities you may not realize until you hear the finished system. In my case it would have been too late to make changes.
I spoke with the designers of all the drivers I chose to use , told them of my plans and asked if I was about to do something wrong. One designer asked what mental institution would allow the system in my cell*> It's amazing the information out there for anyone interested in building rather than buying. The driver designers are a very gracious breed and like to discuss their products with someone who seeks them out.
Crossovers,-- This system needed the flexibility of active crossovers, crossover points and slopes. It offered the ability to make necessary changes if needed, none were.
Amps, --The ability to size the power to the load, and change easily if necessary, no change was necessary. Overkill is great, use more power than you'll need and you have a system that ALWAYS loafs along.
I plan on using the accelerometer when I set up the turntable I've been building for going on 2 years now. After that I'm sure it will come in handy in ferreting out vibrations here and there that will keep me busy! I'm sure I'll have no time to get into trouble.
Since we last communicated, I've been able to spend a good deal of time listening to the system that took me so long to build. Music therapy is second to none! I've rediscovered many of the LPs I bought 40 some years ago. Since I now have vinyl gear that didn't exist back then, I've almost stopped playing CDs and now listen to nothing but vinyl.
I'm sorry to hear of your disability, but trust you've made up for it in other ways. There are many able bodied folks walking around completely unaware of pleasures at their fingertips, but don't think of spending time looking for them in the right places.
Hi Ken, nice to see the pix of the stuff we had spoken of. Very very nice!!!! Did you do a lot of prototypes before you built your speakers, or did you more depend on crossovers and amplifiers? I am curious as to see what the accelerometer measurements will tell you, and what we can try as regards getting rid of some vibes. Just can never talk much at work, you probably know about feeding the monster!
Ken I last communicated with you 2/06. I became disabled soon afterwards. Yesterday I saw your system for the first time in over a year. I must say you and your system has therapeutic qualities. I feel so much better since. Wishing you continued good luck.
Thanks Kftool, It´s a pitty (for me) that you selling of KSA-S´s and MDA´s units. I have two friends in Spain (where I live)that have a Matrix 800, and both is going to active with krell. I think my way is clear...
I´m have any information about KBX settings for Matrix 800 series (slopes, cuts and bass alignement filter parámeters of frecuency and Q factor, and internal modifications of original pasive filters to go active with this speakers). If I don´t reach this KBX, I´m going to active anyway.
I checked your "system," link I see that you have a Krell 300S. Your thought about using a Krell KBX crossover to enhance the performance of your speakers is one that I've personally advocated for the last 20 years. Drive the speakers with a dedicated amp that matches the power and frequency requirements of the driver, an electronic crossover is the best solution. There is only one problem, MONEY; more amps, active crossovers, more cables { cable barons love this }.
If you don't get crazy, the results are glorious. If you have the means for TEF measurements, you can taylor the sound to YOUR ears and the TEF computer.
The 300S is a great amp. I had 3 of them and a pair of 200S amps along with 4 MDA 300's and 4 MDA 500's that I planned to drive my system with. I realized that there was no remote controll link to turn all the amps on at the same time and sold them. I bought the FPB series that have outputs to utilize the Krell Link controllers. I hope to compleat the system with the Krell 8.4 Processor that should be out one of these days, if the creek don't rise.
The KBX units are out of production, check Audiogon and buy one when it comes up, it is a great unit. There is no longer a viable market for active xovers. The high end is following the pro end of self powered speakers.
Until you realize the advantage of an active crossover, YOU WILL NEVER REALIZE WHAT YOU ARE MISSING. As Dennis Miller said," I may be wrong."
In my case, there was no other way I could design and build my system without ALL ACTIVE XOVERS, ALL SOLID STATE, KRELL AMPS. To this day I ha've not regreated the path I took.
Keep true to your plan, Krell amps run forever, grab a KBX, look for a small Krell amp for the top end, and enjoy.
It generall runs from $950 to $1100 a month , depending on the time of year, but that includes the electricity for my shop behind the house. I spend as much time out there working on projects as I do listening to the set.
I guess I need to go to Apple computer school. Part of my text message was omitted in my last response. one more time.
There are only two theories of audio wave propogation: point source and line source.
Point source sends all frequencies from an emanating sphere. It is the same as a rock droping in a pool of water, concentric spheres of energy, only audio is in 3 dimensions.
Consider a 7 ft ,3 or 4 way vertical D'Apolitto array, there are many. If you sit in the center of the acoustic sweet spot, generally around 42 inches from the floor, there will be no time delay problems, your ears are on the acoustic center of the speaker. Stand up, or lie down, and you're no longer on the acoustic center of the speaker. The time delay effect are generally masked by the sheer acoustic power of a system you've spent from $50,00 to $100,00 to purchase. In reality, the slight change in acoustic center doesn't matter much when you have friends over for a good time. After all, you've purchased all this for------ you.
Point source speakers generate spherical sound fields. Ceiling, floor and sidewall reflections generate a complex acoustical problem to deal with. In reality, one speaker is a cheaper problem to deal with than the more complex, and expensive multiple driver system. REMEMBER, more isn't always better.
Enter the line source. Instead of generating a spherical wave form which will add many more random waveforms to the listening area, the line source eliminates 2 boundaries of sonic interference, ceiling and floor reflections. The line source generates a vertical cylindrical waveform. Stand up , lie down or sit, the sound will be the same. The sound will only vary with a left or right change in position, dependent on the polar pattern of the system. While polar patterns of a line source speaker are not effected by floor and ceiling reflections, others are.
If you're still looking for the speaker to satisfy, a line source may be the beautiful woman you've not been handsome enough to marry, but it can be the beautiful woman you may be able to buy; if anyone is still making them.
Before responding to your posting' a few days late, I looked at your system photos, it gives me an idea of the frame of reference the posting is coming from. It's good to see someone who puts his , or her, thoughts into a plan of action. Not everyone has the time to build what they hope will sound good, but many of the high end speaker manufcturers started just that way; Wilson, Vandersteen, etc. I noticed th A5- Voice of the theater bass horns and the gorgeous edgar mid horns.
Now to answer your questions.
First timing; when I laid out the plan for a 9 ft line source with mid bass, mid range and tweeter colums, it became obvious that time allignment would be a must or comb filtering effects would be disaterous. This is the third line source I've built. The first was not time alligned, after that I learned my lesson. I spoke to the actual designers of all the drivers used in my entire system. My first question was "do you see a mistake in my plan?". The second was, if not , I need the dimension of the acoustic center of the driver I have chosen. All the large multi driver systems offset the drivers. Please keep in mind most conform to the D'Apolitto theory of sound convergence, mine do.
Regarding phase errors: being a speaker builder at heart, you know that at the crossover point phase errors can be disasterous, especially with PASSIVE crossovers. Everyone uses them so they can sell a$80,000 pair of speakers that can be driven by TWO expensive, high quality amps. With the use of active crossovers, even better sound will result, but at what cost. Some use Integral amps for the subs, and they should, as it leaves the audiophile to make their own choice to drive the less power hungry mid and hf drivers.
Dynamic drivers change impedance with respect to frequency, as you know. Passive xovers allow an interaction, fed back through the crossover, between drivers crossing over at the same frequency. The change in electrical characteristics of the adjoining drivers have a symbiotic effect on the work they need to perform. It is expensive for a speaker mfg to design a xover to reduce the driver interactions. The phase angle of a driver changes at the crossover point, but what if we could eliminate the driver interaction at the crossover point. WE CAN by using active, rather than passive xovers. With this implementation all drivers are operating as if they are they only ones working. There will still be acoustic interference but that is more easily handled. WHY don't we see more use of this solution? MONEY. If you're in business you need to stay in business, ergo, make a profit.
I chose to use Krell active xovers throughout the system. It solves problems in a system as complex as I decided to build. I have control of the power level to each speaker bank. This is active control , rather than the passive, power robbing effects of passive xovers. ALL the amplifier pewer should go to the drivers rather than resisters thad pad the power for the sake of balance.The downside?, more amps and more cost. As they say,"you can have anything you want, as long as you're willing to pay for it.
I've had the system set up and measured by Acoustics First. ETF measurements were used to balance the levels of all the 7 speakers separately, and then the proper overall balance of the system as a whole.
The room and electronic equalization is another factor. As the room is trimmed out the Parc equalizers will fine tune the room . I hope I'll live that long
This will be the last speaker system I'll build, so what can I say.
I appreciate your poinent questions, as many audiophiles may not be aware of the pitfalls of DIY speaker building, I no you concurr.
I was wondering how the imaging and focus is. You would have phase errors and distortion in reference to the timing. IE, from the listiners head, the top drivers are further away than the middle drivers in each colume, hence timing and phase problems. This is all theory, the listening is the test.
I'm hoping to settle down and make a decision on a head amp soon. The table I building should be done around Christmas and it would be nice to have everything buttoned up by then. I plan on going to the CES to look at the candidates and order what I need there.
The 3 cartridges I purchased are the Shelter 90X, My Sonic Labs Eminent, and the Koetsu Platinum Signature Jade.
I have a Krell KPE Reference now, but only one, so it would be necessary to swap cables, open it up to change the loading in order to listen to the 3 different cartridges. Getting 2 more KPE's would solve the problem, but having only single ended outputs, I'd need to keep the table right next to the preamp, something I didn't want to do.
Regarding your question over on Albert Porter's system page about running three tonearm/cartridge combos may I suggest something like the Boulder 2008 which, while obscenely expensive, is setup for three inputs on balanced XLR connectors all with unique input loading and gain values. It is a solid state unit and is by all accounts dead quiet and neutral in its presentation, i.e. doesn't "sound" like solid state or valves just like what you feed it.
If you are running a ZYX cartridge on one of your three tonearms then I can personally recommend the ZYX Artisan battery buffered phono stage. While the cryo'd input loading resistor is a fixed 125 ohms this seems to be a very synergistic match with any of the ZYX cartridges and I have tried several.
Good luck and please let me know how you get along.
This is the first I've heard about Sandmans. I plan on going to the CES and hope they will be there. I thank you for the tip.
I've been thinking about how I can get a new screen, when Sue says the one we have is big enough, and it really is. I think I will invite Sue's 6 year old nephew over to watch a football game, he's a terror. Maybe the Gods will shine on me along with a new football from Toys R Us.
Check out Sandmans screen. He is going to be offering a retractable screen in the size you want with three way masking, I believe it will be availible in jan. http://www.smxscreen.com/forum/showthread.php?t=187&page=5
