how does one go about assembling a system that can qualify to be listed in the category,"ALL OUT ASSAULT." One way is to read up on a few years of "recommended components" lists from the high end magazines and venture out, with a fat wallet, to visit a few premium audio salons. By just BUYING the top products on the lists, you'll certainly make the audio salons happy , and hopefully, even you may be satisfied by owning the best money can buy. Having years of personal experience in owning many types of excellent audio gear adds a level of surety that only experience can add. Going through this process often enough, you may come to the conclusion that you may never get "THE MIXTURE " that you've been looking for. As the saying goes,"If you want it done right, do it yourself". There is also a saying that tells us, "Do what you do best ,and leave the rest to others." Time has also taught me the importance of another saying, "Do what you think is best." This submission i am presenting is based on preferences I have developed since I built my first piece of audio gear back in 1955 . Back then you could build just about everything in the audio chain yourself. Technology is just a bit more complicated in this day and age, but nevertheless, I feel the possibility still exists to build what you cannot buy, at least in the field of loudspeakers. The following system concepts are those I adhered to when i decided to start this project . Now to begin.-- Restraints of size, cost , or time would not enter into the equation. The room should always comes first, and mine did. Determine the size room you want, and design it along sound acoustic principles. Electronics; Having owned solid state amps for 20 years, along with the power requirements of the system i had in mind , there was no other choice . Solid state ,discrete topology, pure Class A analogue design throughout the entire audio chain. Crossovers; electronic crossovers were employed throughout due to the flexibility needed in designing and building a loudspeaker system that might sail into uncharted waters. All 7 channels would be bass restricted below 60 hz, via the processor , with the subs handling everything below. Electronic equalization; multichannel parametrics operating below 300 hz would be employed on all 8 channels to augment the reduction or elimination of low frequency room resonances not fully addressed by the use of acoustic panels , traps, and diffusers. Loudspeaker design; 3 front towers, identical 9 ft - 4 inch line sources in a horizontal D'Appolito array, four side and rear surround towers, 7 ft- 4 inch line sources in left and right mirror image configuration. Drivers; 15 inch metal cone -high excursion drivers for the subs. Front channels; 7 inch kevlar cone dynamics for mid bass, planar dipole for the midrange, leaf tweeters for the dipole highs. Surround towers; 8 inch kevlar cone drivers for the mid bass, 5 1/2 kevlar cones for the midrange, Revelator domes for the highs. All dynamic drivers, except for the subs, sourced from the same manufacturer to maintain a coherent sonic sign, ature. Drivers and electronics identical to the four surround towers would be in place when processing becomes available for the rear center channel, an 8.1 system configuration. All the dynamic drivers within the system to be in their own separate, sealed enclosures. Baffles for all the dynamic drivers, except the subs , to be either 1 1/2 or 2 inch thick high gloss, black, cast polymer. [ The amount of time I logged from start to finish for construction of the loudspeakers only, amounted to a bit over 5400 man hours spread over 3 years of time. ] Interconnects; XLR type balanced cables used exclusively from the processor through to the 12 stereo amplifiers that are used to drive the 7.1 system; after all, balanced interconnects are what's used to record everything we listen to. Fine tuning of acoustic treatment and and installation of the decorative woodwork trim in the room would be performed after ETF measurements were taken when the complete system was in place , and up and running. At this point in time, both the trim and acoustic treatment are being completed. Upgrades; The 135 inch, widescreen formatted, Stewart electroscreen is to be replaced with a 155 inch, letterbox formatted, Microperf with side electromasking. The Sanyo PLV 70 will then be replaced with a Runco or Vidikron projector with the Cinewide and Autoscope lens features. The last upgrade will be more enjoyment and less work.
this 7.1 processor sends all signals to the amplification chain via balanced interconnects
Krell Krell DVD Standard
full featured , progressive scan dvd player
Krell sacd standard
plays 2 channel and multi channel sacd's
Krell FPB-200
two fpb 200 amps handle the leaf tweeter banks in the three front channels
Krell FPB-300
four fpb 300 amps handle the 4 surround towers. one fpb handles the rear center channel in the eventual 8.1 system
Krell FPB-600
Three fpb 600 amps handle the mid bass and mid range sections of the three front channels. two fpb 600 amps handle the two sub woofer channels
Krell KBX
four KBX 3 way mono electronic crossovers, and two kbx 2 way stereo electronic crossovers.handle frequency division within the system.
Krell Krell Link Controller
Three krell link controllers are used to synchronize remote control operations where multiple amplifiers are used in various situations(stereo, ht 5.1, 7.1 etc)
Krell KPE Reference
solid state phono head amp
Rives Audio PARC, & PARC PLUS
3 Parametric analog room correction equalizers tame room anomolies on all 8 channels in 3 chosen bands per channel
DOMINION VIRGINA POWER 26KVA LINE XFORMER
Audiophiles that have neighbors with noisy appliances have one of 2 choices; put up with it or use power conditioners that clean the power . Since we had a current demand that made power conditioners out of the question, 12 Krell fpb amps , plus source components, the best solution was to have our own line transformer installed by virginia power. When the quality of the power source was considered, this was the only choice.
American Power Conversion APC Smart UPS 2200VA USB
This conditioner/ battery back up is utilized to maintain the coherance of the operation of the sequenced krell link system with the hts 7.1 controller, the 12 fpb amps in the system, along with the various signal devices in the event of a power outage. We typically have at least 6 or more power outages in virginia durring the course of a year. two-6 outlet conditioners are used in the system protecting all signal and control components
APC APC Smart UPS 1100 UPS
one ups on the krell links- one ups on the PVL 75 projector
Personally designed and built Four- 7ft,4in surround towers,
These mirror image line sources each contain 6 scan speak 8 inch kevlar cone bass drivers operating from 60 to 500 hz thru a krell kbx xover @12 bd per octave. 6 scan speak 5 in kevlar cone mid drivers operating from 500 to 3500 hz @ 12 bd per octave. 6 scan speak revelator tweeters from 3500 hz and up @ 12 db per octave- passive xover between the mids and tweeters. a fpb 300 drives each tower thru a krell kbx xover. all drivers are mounted in their separate sealed enclosures. The mirror image baffles are hi gloss black cast polymer weighing 175 lbs and were manufactured by the author.
Personally designed and built, 3 identical front channels
3 way , 9 ft 4 inch line sources configured with a horizontal d'appolito array. Each tower contains the following drivers; 24 scan speak 7 inch kevlar cone mid bass drivers each in their own sealed baffle. 4 Bohlander Graebner rd-50 planar mid range drivers operating in a dipolar configuration, and 40 panasonic eas 10 th-400a leaf tweeters, 30 facing to the front and 10 facing rearward,wired out of phase for dipolar radiation
Personally designed and built, 3 way rear center channel
This horizontal d'appolito array speaker is identical to the 4 surround line arrays with the exception that it is in a horizontal configuration at the rear of the room 8 feet above the floor . It will be put into service when processing is available for an 8.1 surround configuration
Personally designed and built, Sub woofer towers
The two mirror image sub towers EACH contain 8- 15 in high excursion, metal cone drivers sourced from tc sounds. a krell fpb 600 is used to drive each tower with 4 woofers driven by each side of the amplifiers. the sub towers handle all the information below 60 hz for the 3 front and 4 surround towers. The 60 hz crossover frequency and 24 db slope is provided by the krell hts 7.1 processor.
Sota Millennia
vacum table with electronic speed control
triplainar 12 inch series vII
latest version of this legendary tonearm
Shelter 90X
Shelter's top of the line moving coil cartridge
Stewart Tech screen 130 microperf
The 135 inch , widescreen formatted , Stewart electroscreen is triggered by the krell hts 7.1 controller
Sanyo PLV 75 projector
2200 ansi lumen, widescreen , hi def lcd projector
Pioneer Elite CD CLV laser disc player
This model was the last, reference level, laser disc player manufactuted by pioneer befor the death knell of that format.
Direct TV HD DVR HR 10-250
DSS Hi Def receiver-DVR directly feeding the sanyo hi def projector via the digital -DVI input
Thompson DRD 486DH
Two - dss receivers facilitate simoutaneous viewing and recording of different channels
TIVO Tivo series 2
Two -80 gig units, one each on the 2 dss channels for time shift and convenience viewing.
Pioneer DVR 510 H
Two- 80 gig dvr recorders for archiving programs from the two tivo series 2 dvr's
Belden-neutrik Belden 8014 Quad star-2
this tripple shielded, mogami type, rubber coverd cable terminated with neutrik's best xlr connectors carry all the signals, in ballanced mode, from the processor right thru to the 11 krell amps.driving the system.
Luminous audio digital -optical interconnects
digital sources are connected to the hts 7.1 using the above commectors.
Luminous Audio Silver reference
This 8 ga silver litz wire is used to connect the speakers to their respective amplifiers. Since the amps are located directly at the speakers they drive, the lengths are generally less than two feet. terminations are all cardas premiun lugs. speaker binding posts are those used by krell on their fpb amps
carol cable and wire 10-3 neoprene coverd power cord
all the amps are fed with 10-3 copper supply cords terminated with wattgate iec plugs on one end and hubbel 30 amp, 4 prong, 220 volt twist-lock plugs on the supply end.
Okay, so it's later today and I'm listening to side "B" of Jacqui Naylor's, "The Number White", of The Tape Project, while composing this reply and contemplating rolling my own :-)
I want to do it, Ken! In addition to the sonic merits of rolling your own tape and possessing first-hand intelligence of the experience, I have great expectations of the wonderful people whom will be an essential component of the endeavor and ultimately, will make it memorable...much like our AudiogoN Community :-)
Learning and sharing...I'm encouraged by your sentiment and disposition - as are others, I'm sure!
1:30 a.m., here...please, do regale us with an account of your RTR collection!
I nearly collapsed from anoxia while reviewing your prodigious array of RTR devices :-) I could easily devote hours enthralled by your homage to analogue reel to reel.
Say, I learned something new earlier this evening...I ran the Studer directly to my amps, bypassing the Rex, and was astonished! I've listened to three Tape Project albums/side "A", tonight...Waltz For Debby, Suite Espanola, Be Altitude, and The Number White. Sonny, my spouse, and I have listened to these artists on our system previously; however, never have the performances commanded such an extraordinary presence!
This is my new reference - play Tape Project reels with the signal conveyed directly to the monoblocks and bypassing the preamp...as you probably realize, I can control the volume via the Studer :-)
Of course, this is the penultimate solution...you've realized the ultimate solution -- recording your own tapes! :-)
I'll reply to your next post tomorrow - oh, make that later today.
Sue and I load up our Ampex 440 c, Grace 201 mike pre, Peluso 2247 se mikes and Atlas 11 ft stands in our Navigator. It takes us three hours to get it lugged into the venue and set up and another two hours to get it broken down an loaded up and back home. It's usually around midnight before we put the tape on the ATR and listen to the recording we just made. The ONLY time we stay up until 3 AM is to listen to what we heard live a few hours earlier--well--not the only time.
You might think the only way to listen to music on tape is to buy it on tape. You'd be surprised at the amount of good live music available in your city by groups that are looking to be recognized. You don't need a 100 lb Ampex machine to capture good sound; there are good digital alternatives- under a few pounds.
If this reply piques your interest, think about replying. If not, you'll never know what you're missing.
It's been a while since I had just 8 or so RTR machines. There's an interesting story connected to the collection I have and won't bore you unless you ask. If you do, I can assure you it will be interesting.
As of now I have three ATR Services Machines; one ATR 102, one ATR 104, and one ATR 1-2 with Aria upgrade electronics. Two weeks from today I'll drive to York, Pa. to pick up an ATR 1-2 four track from Mike Spitz.
The other machines are; 351-2, two 354s, two 440Bs, one 440c with new 1/2 inch two track Flux MS heads I use for live recording. Three Scully NOS 280b 1/4 inch two track machines, one 280b 1/4 inch four track machine , and a Scully 280b one inch 8 track machine. A pair of Technics 1500 machines, one with remote control, a Tascam 1/2 inch 8 track and a pair of Fostex 1/2 inch 8 track machines. Two Studer 810 A machines and an A 80 VU Mk-3. There are other misc machines, such as a Concertone that doesn't work, but rekindled my high school days. Various Ampex PR 10, 601 and 960 machines also take up space. When I retire I hope to have the time to get many of them working.
I'm still on the hunt for a Presto 825 1/4 inch two track machine --- maybe someday.
IMHO, It's no use getting into RTR machines unless you gamble on buying copies of master tapes from those, that may or may not, have a master tape and copy it on a great pro machine. I've gotten stung more times than not, but the tapes that sound fantastic make it all worthwhile.
Sam, I'm sure that your Studer 820 puts everything else in your system to shame when the tapes are great.
Thanks for the reply, and maybe it will provoke a discussion on tape with those that have it, and those that are thinking about it.
Between Vinyl and RTR tape, there's nothing better than live music---- capture it on an analog RTR machine. They're still out there and good mikes are cheap. Spend a few bucks, take your wife out to hear live music and bring it back home, listen to it on whatever gear you have. It will amaze you how good music can sound.
The subs are flat to 20 HZ using etf software and a B & K measurement mic. I haven't bothered to measure the 3 db down point yet as it doesn't matter that much to me.
The drivers were sourced from my friends at Krell. They were built by OEM manufacturer T C Sounds in California who build sub drivers for many high end speaker manufacturers. The drivers are those used in Krell's Master Reference Subwoofer and are monsters.
I usually play music at levels around 90 DB but not too long at that level. Because the volume of the room is around 26,000 cubic feet the room isn't compressed at that level. It seems as though the level is around 80 to 85 db so it's easy to let the volume get away from you.
The preferred musical genre is classical but mostly everything sounds good. I'm trying to become accustomed to jazz as small ensembles really stand out, but for now all jazz tends to sound the same to me, I guess I need to learn a little more about jazz. The system really stands out with tape. The Tape Project issues are all stunning and they have prompted me to attempt purchases of master tapes from other sources. Unfortunately the "other sources" tend to be lacking as there is no way to know the authenticity of the material until after you've bought and paid for it, and then listen. Even though many tapes are disappointing, it's worth the chance of getting a really great one.
Your system is beyond the boundries of " All out assault", very daunting in a good way, congrats. Just curious how low those giant subs go to and volume level to listen to in terms of db. Also curious to the type of music you listen( electronica. pipe organs etc) to enjoy full band width
" Wow" is what every "Gonner" works to attain. You make changes in gear until everything sounds right. If it doesn't, you selective change one piece at a time until you have what you want.
Thanks to Audiogon we can buy and sell all the commercially available gear at a price far below list but how does it sound? Some will visit a retailer, if one is in the area, and lead him to believe we might buy it, what can I say, as they won't be waiting for us to buy forever.
If you're a DIY guy, what you build you'll die with, because nobody will buy ANYTHING from an amateur--Keep in mind that everyone in high end audio started out as an amateur. If you ever intend to sell what you build you'll need to give it away as NOBODY BUYS ANYTHING they can't sell for almost what they paid for it--on Audiogon.
Having said that, I did my homework. I listened to what was at the top of the food chain, used the experience I gained building speakers since the late 50's, didn't skimp on what counted, spoke to those in the know and put the ROOM first!
While I'm happy with the destination, the trip was more than worthwhile.
I built this system only because I couldn't find, and didn't hear, a commercially available system that satisfied.
Choosing the line source array and then the drivers came about after building a few trial horses an listening to what was out there. Deciding on a design format then escalated to the best quality drivers to satisfy the performance ranges. Just choosing the most expensive drivers is no guarantee of a seamless system, but it's a place to start.
After choosing the drivers I spoke with the designer of each and every driver I chose, except the Panasonic Leaf tweeters. I don't speak Japanese but I had experience with that particular driver. It was also the choice of a number of high end loudspeaker manufacturers so it had a pedigree.
Last but not least, before I made a financial commitment, I spoke with Joe D'Appolito, Vance Dickason, Igor Livitsky at Bholander Graebner, Thilio at TC sounds, an engineer at Scan Speak and my friends at Krell to see if I'd overlooked anything. They were all encouraging so I built the system.
I designed and began building the room 20 years ago, 26,000 cubic feet according to acoustic principles. I've always had BIG speakers and knew the limitations a room will impose on a great system. A big budget for the room and F. Alton Everest's handbook Of Acoustics had to come first and it did. To say I'm happy with the outcome is an understatement.
Thanks for the posting, as it has reminded me of the work and enjoyment I've had since the speakers came to life.
In my honest opinion without ever hearing this system, this has got to be the BEST and most INNOVATIVE home theater and PURE audio system ever put together for the home that's not experimental like the 2 million speaker system that the engineer and founder of DALI loudspeakers designed back in 1992. That system you needed a mansion the size of a warehouse. This system is built for the garage size and humongous and the PARTS used for DIY loudspeakers. This designer is brilliant in his years of expertise in building an unthinkable system. All others put together manufactured systems, to build your own loudspeaker system and the type of drivers that was used here is just AMAZING. This is definitely one of a kind and unique and my favorite. I can only imagine how realistic this system sounds like especially in terms of SPL and dB scaling! GREAT JOB! This has to be one of the most ENVIABLE system every designed!
It sounds like an offer I can't pass up! You're welcome to visit anytime.
The system is definitely due for an updating as I've added and changed some components. I've also learned how to create paragraphs by hitting the return button so the description will be better presented.
We have an audio group in Richmond that meets regularly so you may be interested in attending one of our meetings.
Nice looking system. I would love to schedule a field trip for some of my music club buddies to check it out in person.
I have been in two music clubs over the last 30 years...4 or 5 guys that meet one a month to enjoy music. In exchange, I could photograph your system for the update here on 'gon since I am a professional photographer here in Hampton Roads.
A system such as yours brings much joy reading the many comments and your experience in putting together your system. Thanks to both you and your better half. Happy listening.
I need to post a new picture, as it appears the speakers are tall, and they are. My wife at 5 ft 6, is four feet shorter than the speakers. I need to update the site.
I think you and I are in the same age group, on Medicare and remember when Buddy Holly died. I also remember where I was and what I was doing when JFK was shot. I was a college kid working at Allen Bradley in Milwaukee. I 'll never forget the moment when the announcement came over the pa system.
The older I get, the more I realize the importance of realizing why I've been living and what will make me happy when society casts me aside.
I love to work, listen to music and build things. At 67 my wife, neighbors and everyone else I know, think Im crazy to add on to my music room- I just need more room for vinyl, tapes and gear, What can I say.
As Raul says, "Enjoy The Music."
Thanks for the reply, as it has invigorated me to post a few new projects.
WHOA!! I can't believe anyone can have enough ears to hear all that equipment! Extremely impressive. You must run the preamp at 0.1 or 0.2 !! I want to do what you do, for a career, to earn enough to build one myself. Wishing you many happy hours to enjoy all your efforts. In 53 years of being a Tweak, myself, you must already know that I have NEVER seen the like of it! Enjoy, you deserve it.
You've got the space, You've got the know how, You've got the money, You've got the guts,
........enjoy it ....you deserve it ALL THE WAY....
WAF...TOTAL ELIMINATION
BRAVO!!!
sangel form Athens Greece
ps. I am after a speaker DIY project.. for a 2 ch system. Any ideas very welcome Electronic: PBN Sierra Audio k2 pre Denali - mono's power amp 600W/CH/8OHMS Space: 50 sq.meters
