Description

The system has evolved over a 20 year period and will probably continue to evolve. It is in a dedicated room that is approximately 19' by 27' by 10' with oak floors and oriental carpets. I also use a minimal number of diffusers on the wall behind the speakers and eight of the 16" ASC Tube Traps. The room has 5 dedicated circuits for the audio.

There have been a number of evolutionary changes over the last year, primarily with respect to the power cords, speakerwire and interconnect and one rather dramatic change, the replacement of the EMM Labs XDS1 with the Esoteric P-02/ D-02. This yielded lower noise and increased detail and bass control while maintaining the musicality of the EMM Labs. I would consider the Esoteric pieces breakthrough products. Funny how you sometimes deviate from your plans. My system seems to go through extended periods without major changes, then have a number at the same time. I do have my eyes on a new cartridge and perhaps a new preamp.
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    • Rockport Technologies Sirius
    I purchased an early Sirius from Andy Payor thinking that I had purchased the ultimate turntable, only to spend the next five years updating. The updates have included the air isolation base, a series of different motors and tonearms, an outboard power supply for the motor, a 50# platter, new arm wiring and a variety of different belts culminating in a custom aramid fiber belt. As currently constituted, I think that it combines the high definition of the Sirius II without its tendency toward coldness.
    • Einstein The Tube Mk II
    Similar in many ways to the CTC Blowtorch but harmonically richer and more complex with greater dynamics and significantly better image density. Phenomenal bass, ultra quiet, very extended upper octaves.
    • Yamaha CT-7000
    Ebony with black faceplate. Particularly nice top end coupled with an ability under the best circumstances to recreate a three dimensional soundstage. After owning a number of Magnum Dynalabs, this has been a real eye opener.
    • Acapella Triolons
    The Triolons are an imposing sight. Two woofer towers, each 14" by 28" by 7' tall, each weighing 650# plus a cross piece holding a plasma tweeter attached to the woofers and a sword bearing two horn loaded speakers, one horn 30.5" in diameter, the other 18.5" in diameter. The Triolons can be driven by a single amps of 18 watts or higher power but must be triwired and have an efficiency of 97 db. Each side weighs 850# total. The crossover points are 200, 700 and 5000 hz. The sound from 200 hz up to 40,000 hz emanates as a spherical wavefront. The Campanile Highs are similar but crossover to their woofers at 700 hz, use the plasma tweeter plus a single horn and are much lower in efficiency (92 db). The Triolons are typically a 6 ohm speaker but have an impedance at 30 hz of 28 ohms. The same is true of the Campaniles. Neither is a particularly easy load for an amp to drive; however the greater efficiency of the Triolons does open up the possibility of driving them with the right low power amplifier. Unlike the ribbon tweeter of the Magnepans, the Acapella's tweeter does not over shadow the other drivers. Extremely dynamic.
    • Jorma Prime
    The Jorma Prime, either in balanced or single ended configuration is superb, particularly between amp and preamp but also on other inputs. I still use the balanced 7N Mexcel on the X01 and the Valhalla on the TT but otherwise have switched to the Jorma Prime.
    • Finite Elemente Pagode Master Reference
    5 shelf version installed as well as the amp stands. Again a nice and very audible improvement. Amazing the things that you blame on the equipment until you solve the resonance problems. Basically a no brainer. More improvement than changing a major piece of equipment.
    • Jorma Prime
    I have been mildly dissatisfied for a number of years with my JC-1 amps when used to drive the Acapella speakers but have yet to find something that combined the ability to drive the speakers and give me the other characteristcs that I desired although I have been much taken with some tubed amps (small, single ended or OTL within their power limits. Let's just say that the insertion of a combination of Bi-wire and single wire prime has cused me to re-think the amp question. The Primes are simply the most musical natural top to bottom cables that I have ever encountered.
    • Halcyonics Micro 40
    Isolation base
    • Audio Note Balanced Kegons
    transformer coupled, silver wired, balanced, SET mono pair, 23 watts output
    • Ortofon MC-90
    minimal body mass, excellent sound; more liquidity in the highs than the Titan i
    • Weizhi AC Line Filter
    6 outlet
    • Stage III Zyklops
    Power cord
    • Stage III Minotaur
    AC power cord
    • Ypsilon MC-16 Step up transformer
    Step up transformer for low output moving coil catridge
    • Ypsilon VPS 100 phono stage
    Tubed phono stage
    • Lurne Record clamp
    record clamp
    • Finite Elemente Cerabases
    german engineered isolation feet
    • Esoteric P-02
    Esoteric's next to top of the line transport.
    • Esoteric D-02
    Esoteric's latest thinking on D/A converters.

Comments 280

Owner
I am certainly sympathetic. Just be glad that your BAT's are not based around a circuit employing 300B's or 211's. I will be listening to alternatives to the Western Electric 300B's which I am currently using in the near future and may have some comments when I do so.

fcrowder

Greetings, Fred,

I'm sympathetic regarding the nexus between tubes and expense! Recently, I purchased from BAT a matched set of tubes for a pair of VK-150SE'$...eight 6C33C's, twelve 6SN7's, four 6H30-DR's (nos), and four 6V6's. Now, I'm compelled by guilt to re-tube the other pair of 150SE's, so my MegaLines will be utterly content - LOL.

A short time ago, I had the pleasure of an entire afternoon with Chris Terraneau of Amplitrex evaluating these tubes and plotting curves :-) As you had remarked, one with knowledge is a tremendous resource!

I remain a student of the BAT circuit...

Best,
Sam

c1ferrari

Owner
Well another expensive weekend. I spent about five hours listening to n.o.s. tubes for my amps, primarily VT25/10 and 10Y and rectifiers, primarily 5U4G and GB. As I have learned the box and stencilling on the glass are not a guarantee of the actual provenance of a tube. Even with respect to legitimate n.o.s. tubes, RCA might have purchased a particular tube from Sylvannia and vice versa. It is critical to have someone knowledge as a resource. Having said this, I have had good luck with Josh at Tejas Tubes in Houston. After he and I listened all day Saturday, I was able to determine that my balanced Kegons clearly and consistently prefer 10Y to 10 variants of the VT25 and that the KB's prefer the 5U4G to the GB variant. With respect to the VT25, 1940's Sylvannias seem well suited for my amps. With respect to the rectifiers, NaTIONALS FROM THE 1950'S worked well as did brown base RCA's. I am looking for pairs of Genelux and Tungsram rectifiers which may be even better. Another things that I learned is that generalizations about particular tubes are not always a good indicator as a specific circuit may call for different electrical parameters. This proved to be the case with some very expensive Western Electric rectifiers.

fcrowder

Owner
Subsequent to the listening sessions over the weekend, I was able to have a couple of listening sessions comparing Stage III Vortex Prime AC cords with the Stage III Minotaur. Both of these sessions were in other people’s systems. On the Esoteric P03 transport and D03 DAC, the Minotaur was a pretty big step forward, especially on the Transport. We also tried it on the clock, but it didn’t seem to help much there. In my friend Paul’s system the Vortex Prime worked very on his EMM Switchman preamp, while the Minotaur was a little bass heavy. The Minotaur worked really worked well on the EMM DAC. Resolution and soundstaging were both enhanced. On the EMM transport, the Jorma Prime cord worked better than anything else, really opening up the soundstage. With this combination of cords Paul’s digital sound was elevated quite a bit. I continue to like the Jorma Prime for its tonal balance and ability to accentuate dynamics and palpability; however, it is becoming increasingly obvious that the top of the line Stage III cords are cleaner and more extended at the top, more controlled in the bass and midbass and more tonally neutral.

fcrowder

Owner
I had an interesting, if costly, weekend. Many of you will remember that about a year ago I purchased a Stage III Zyklops power cord for my digital set up. At the time, it seemed like the best choice to complement the Esoteric X01-D2 that I owned. About three months ago, I learned that Stage III had a major upgrade to the Zyklops and all its existing cords which consisted of the replacement of the connectors with ceramic units custom manufactured for Stage III. Although somewhat skeptical at first, after hearing a friend's upgraded Vortex Primes in comparison to the original, I bit the bullet and send mine in for the upgrade which cost $300.

Of late I have spent considerable time trying to optimize the Balanced Kegons, both the tube complement and the AC cabling. As I have previously discussed the tube issue, I will not rehash old ground. I have a peculiar set-up which requires the use of one power cord about two meters longer than the other. Unfortunately, this has made power cord comparison difficult. A friend loaned me a second Weizhi over the weekend to enable me to try out different power cords on the amps. This allowed me to use three shorter cords, rather than one short and the other ridiculously long.

With respect to power cords, I can say with some certainty that the KB’s are extremely sensitive. As it turns out the Isoclean Super Focus cords which I have been using are not only not the best on the Kegons but are actually a very poor match. Two cords which seem to work well are the Jorma Prime and the latest Stage III wires particularly the Minotaur and the Zyklops. The Stage III cords exert a much stronger control of the midbass frequencies making the Isoclean cords appear a touch ripe and bloated in comparison. Likewise the Stage III cords are much cleaner and more extended at the top and more detailed throughout the frequency range. The Stage III also has much better image focus and soundstaging ability. Voices and solo instruments are properly sized and placement is very stable. In comparison, as additional instruments are added to the stage with the Isoclean, it seems to create room for the new instrument by pushing the first further back into the soundstage (I will note that I have somewhat exaggerated the effect to illustrate what is happening). The Jorma Prime is also excellent, a bit warmer than the Stage III but not as resolving, a little less clean and extended at the top and a bit more forward. I would note that I continue to like both and that in the right circumstances, the Isoclean is still very good, say with a transistorized amp like the Parasound JC-1 monoblocks where its fatness in the midbass ameliorates the leaness of the amp. As a result of the listening over the weekend, I am redoing my AC set-up for the Kegons and will be using a combination of the Stage III and Weizhi.

fcrowder

Owner
System edited: Several additions to the system, including the EMM Labs XDS1 a Weizhi AC line filter and several Stage III power cords.

fcrowder

Owner
One thing which I really appreciate about Ryan is that he is brutally honest, not mean or unkind, just brutally honest. His comments Friday night were interesting. As usual, he reiterated that the bass of his Watt Puppies had a level of slam and impact that the Acapella's and for that matter most other speakers do not equal. I believe that he is correct in saying that the bass of the Audionote amps is characteristically single ended, it does sound very different from that of a high power transister amp. Likewise, a 23 watt amp does not have quite the dynamics at the loud end of the spectrum on rock music of a much larger amp. This is not noticeable on the vast majority of music that I play and is very benign even when it happens as SE tubed amps tend to be somewhat forgiving of being over driven. Other than these two areas, I believe that he was relatively pleased with the sound. I am currently using Isoclean Super Focus power cords on the amps and will soon be trying some alternative cords to see how that impacts the bass control and dynamics.

fcrowder

heard fred's system fri night, changes since last time are
A) Emm XDS1 replacing Esoteric Xo1-d2
B) new rectifier tubes in the Audio Note amps

while the rig makes sacrifices that one would expect in any system limited by 20wpc, the 20 when applied to well recorded acoustic / vocal music is spooky, and got the illusion of 'live-in-the-home' about as well as i've heard it.

taking a deeper look into the AN amps reminds me of looking at a hand-made auto (ie 6-figures). art meets engineering objectives. ridiculous and remarkable at the same time.

rhyno

Owner
I had the chance over the weekend to hear the FM122 phono stage in a friend's system which also included EMM Labs separates, the FM Acoustics mono amps, a Walker TT and a Lyra Titan i cartridge. Previously, I had also heard heard the Einstein phonostage in the same system. The two are very different but each excellent in its own way. The FM is possibly the most detailed phonostage that I have heard, extremely clean, linear, low distortion, perhaps a touch lean for my tastes but that is highly dependent on the associated power cords and AC line filter used. It seemed to really like the Jack Bybee filter combined with Jorma Prime power cords. The Einstein is somewhat less revealing but warmer, with more air and a larger, deeper stage. While I will keep the Einstein for the time being, I will probably check out some of the alternatives.

fcrowder

Thanks, Fred :-)

-Sam

c1ferrari

Owner
Sam,

The X01-D2 is to the P03/D03/G0 about the same as the CDSA is to the XDS1. To be clear, the more expensive Esoteric gear basically addresses what I perceive as the weaknesses of the X01-D2. It is a superb machine. It clearly has the same ability to retrieve detail that the XDS1 has and tonally is very similar; however, the way in which each presents detail is quite different. In a good hall the Esoteric would be similar to a seat at the very front of the hall. The focus is on the instruments with less hall information. The XDS1 is more like a seat in the mid hall area which will give you less upfront detail but more detail with respect to the hall. One focuses on the direct sound, the other on a mix of direct and reflected sound. Neither is "right" or "wrong". They represent different perspectives on the same event. I personally prefer the Xds1 but others will prefer the Esoteric.

fcrowder

Fred,

When you have a moment, I would be interested in your musings of the XDS1 vis-a-vis Esoteric P03/D03/G0. Thanks!

-Sam

c1ferrari

Owner
I purchased the EMM Labs XDS1. It has been a revelation, particularly since I am intimately familiar with the Esoteric X01-D2, Playback Designs and had an EMM Labs CDSA in my home for the 6 weeks prior to receiving the XDS1. It is perhaps worth saying that that on an overall basis, I preferred the CDSA to the X01-D2 because of its musicality and correct tonality but felt that the X01-D2 was superior in retrieval of low level detail, extension at the frequency extremes, and dynamics. The CDSA also displayed a bit of congestion in the upper bass and lower mids that was absent from the X01-D2. The major failing of the X01-D2 is its tonality which is a bit lacking in harmonic complexity in comparison to the CDSA. The XDS1 is a huge leap over the other units. It is the first digital piece which I have owned which approaches good analog.

fcrowder

Owner
No multi-channel is currently planned for the primary sytem; however, I need to completely revamp the small system used for video. The thought there would be something enjoyable but cost effective.

fcrowder

Hi Fred,

Rather curious...is multichannel on your audio horizon?

Thanks,
Sam

c1ferrari

Owner
It was an interesting weekend in many respects as I drove to College Station to visit Norm Luttbeg (Tbg)to hear his Tidal Contriva SE speakers and Bergman Sinde turntable/Ortofon A90 cartridge. After adjusting the tracking force downward on the A90, the sound of the combination was exceptional. The Bergman seems well thought out and well executed, although it would clearly benefit from an easier graduated method of adjusting VFA and a more repeatable method of adjusting tracking force. However, neither of these nits affected the sound. I would like to have heard the Tidals with different electronics. The amp in particular did not seem ideally suited to driving the speakers. The Tidals seem to have avoided the negatives that I typically hear with ceramic drivers. They are well detailed without added brightness. The drivers are also very coherent. I hope to hear them again under different circumstances.

On Sunday, Norm and a friend came to Houston to listen. We started about 10:30 in the morning and were still listening that evening. One thing that became abundantly clear was how much better the Kegons get after being left on for three or four hours. The surprise of the listening session was how analog like the EMM Labs XDS1 sounded.

fcrowder

Owner
I think that the sound of the XDS1 is consistent whether through the M9 or the Einstein; however the two line stages impart different flavors to what is run through them. The Audionote is clearly somewhat richer harmonically and from my perspective tends to benefit the Esoteric players. The XDS1 is a bit harmonically richer and works well with either.

fcrowder

Hi Fred,

Thanks for the update. I'd read on another thread your decision to purchase the XDS1 -- congrats! Would you be available to comment on the similarities/differences of the XDS1 when coupled with either the Einstein or Audio Note linestages?

Vbr,
Sam

c1ferrari

Owner
Dan the "cartridge man", at least that's how I think of him, my expert on cartridge set up, visited Friday evening to preview the Ortofon A90. dan already owns one but is currently playing with the top of the line ZYX. He convinced me to at least try some 100 ohm loading plugs which he brought with him, but more importantly, he talked me into lowering the tracking force from 2.3 grams to 2.01 and then to adjust VTA. The short answer is that I currently like 85 ohms on the Einstein, but that the cartridge sounds much better at a lower tracking force. Again I am not sure how much lower it will go after full break in. The other lesson learned is how VTA and tracking force affect each other. The A90 is sounding very good in all areas. On a separate note, the EMM Labs continues to improve. At this point I have decided to bite the bullet and buy it as I really like the particular combination of pluses and minuses. It is significantly better than the Esoteric X01-D2, probaly equal but different from the P03/D03/G0S. More on that later.

fcrowder

Owner
I have been experimenting with the loading of the A90 and at this point can say with great certainty that 40 ohms is way too low and 300 way too high.  The cartridge, at least in my system, sounds right at 85 ohms.  I would guess that 100 might be a touch better but have no way of verifying it.  When the load is too low the bass is uncontrolled and imaging suffers.  When it is too high, the top end sounds rolled off.  Things seem to snap into focus at 85 with great treble and tight, well controlled impactive bass.  Note that the loading also effects output but not disastrously. After I get to the 50 hour mark, I will experiment with tracking force, but at present, I am content to sit back and just listen. recently I have rediscovered early tulip label DGG's and 6-eye Columbia classical recordings. Both can be excellent.

fcrowder

I would sugested using VTF even lower. Try 1.8-1.9 also, even though it is system dependent. I am using 1.9. I raied to 2.2 and it did not sound better.

gallant_diva

Owner
I initially set VTF at 2.3 grams as recommended by the factory but have since dropped it to 2.1 grams. I am trying to track with the bottom of the cartridge parallel to the turntable; however, I find that setting it by ear while therecord is playing results in a slight adjustment, generally very slightly up. I still need to play with loading. Raul Iregas has suggested 100 ohms; I am currently at 300 but will experiment this weekend.

fcrowder

Hi Fcrowder:

I do not have adustable loading n my phono. But I am curious what VTF and VTA are you using in your A90.

G

gallant_diva

Owner
I have now put about 10 hours of play on the Ortofon A90. Several friends who own A90's have suggested that a minimum of 50 hours is needed for breakin and that it opens up at that point. For those who have only seen pictures, the stylus is quite long. Ortofon suggests that the starting point for VTA is parallel to the record; however, given the open structure of the cartridge, it is not always easy to determine when it is parallel. Fortunately or unfortunately, the A90 is very sensitive to VTA adjustment. Even a minimal adjustment can lift the quality of the sound rather significantly. I am running it into an Einstein phonostage [probably the best bargain in high end phonostages] loaded at 300 ohms. Any suggestions from other users with respect to optimal loading would be greatly appreciated. For reference, the Titan i liked 100 ohms into the Einstein. tracking is currently at 2.3 grams but in the Rockport, that is probably a bit high. I figured that it would be wise to complete breakin before trying to adjust down force but again any suggestions from users would be appreciated.

fcrowder

Owner
I have been listening to the EMM Labs XDS1 today and after about 200 hours of play, it is already state of the art in many respects. Leading edge definition is still a bit soft. The soundfield that it creates is huge.

I also had a friend install the Ortofon M90 cartridge tonight. All I will say at this point is that it is quite good straight out of the box, neither bright nor edgy.

fcrowder

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