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*Don't get frustrated and don't have preconceived ideas about how something should sound. Don't condemn the "new" part right away, give it some thought. The problem may be something "exposed" in earlier change. Try hard to understand (not just hear) what each change is doing. *

Well, I like the advice someone once gave me of having something in your system for a while then switching back to the previous component as a way of making a more thorough evaluation, though i still will use quick A B A comparison's on occasion. I think each can have their place.

The other thing that i am trying to strictly follow/never veer from is to make only one change/replacement at a time once the system's sound has "snapped" into focus (sounds great) and if it doesn't take the sound a step in a forward direction revert back to the previous set up, otherwise i can find myself forever trying to get back the great sound i locked into because i made too many minute changes here or there and can't remember the combination that brought the positive result.(sometimes a tiny change can be profound) I think this applies at least in cases where you feel the sound has really come to a special place and they're aren't going to be any major components stages which might require some extra experimentation.

Today i listened for about 5hrs. Today, i experimented a bit with cartridge bolt tightness,mats, the relationship between preamp, amp, cartridge loading, tonearm mounting bolt torques(this usually doesn't cross my mind but today it did just purely out of curiosity), footers for my amp and a power cable change.

A few days ago i switched out fim silver speaker cables for fim gold speaker cables. Fim gold sounds more detailed, fuller, more cohesive but a touch warm so that it slightly homogonizes the sound, whereas the fim silver have a more direct presentation, smaller scale and renders cleaner, sometimes maybe too clean but overall still great. The fim gold had a more "complete" sound with more resolution but sometimes that resolution was a double edged sword. Like the reverb added to recording sounded way too unnatural. Like the decay was under a microsocope. Sometimes things could lean towards mechanical and threadbare. I wanted to keep the gold's good qualities but lose its bad ones cause it had alot of potential i thought cause it does some interesting things over the silver. Was the problem with the cable itself? was it something else? I will make a long story short, the tweaking of the breuer's mounting bolts (loosening them), using a solid neoprene unribbed mat alleviated some of that threadbareness. At the very end of my listening session just as i was about to power down the system, i asked myself what switching the power cord that feeds the acoustive revive rtp, which drove the vh audio airsine's which drive my preamps might do. The cord going into the rtp was the vh audio flavour 4 and i have a cardas golden reference kicking around. I knew from previous experimentation that the cardas cord could provide some body, even if it was a bit slow and a bit on the translucent side. It is just a "cheap" cord relative to some of my other components and compared to the stuff out there but switching it in really transformed the sound and gave everything this wonderful flow, richness, tonal density and body. The ultra detail of the fim gold was ameliorated by the cardas.

I could still hear the limitations of the cost effective snell cabinets, the slight dirtiness in their treble but it didn't matter, the snell's as clunky as they look, made some magic with norah jones's voice. Full, lush,detailed,emotional, expressive, dense, rich, 3d, natural, warm...

***Most of all, ENJOY your software. Listen with your heart, not just your ears. At some point long term, relaxed listening will help you understand what each change is providing and that is the key to getting everything right. ***

Thank you Albert. I try, I try!... but when i know that something fundamentally is amiss i CAN'T except it! cause something just isn't right! Anyways, I can happily say that that that little change of the cardas cable brought the sound to a place where it was EASY to relax and listen with my heart! I know when something is sounding wrong and something is sounding right(i tweak UNTIL... it is for the most part... "right"). Things are sounding right now. Not perfect but right.

***On my turntable I've had at least six different mats and at least that many clamps (or weights). It amazes me that each one brings something different to the party.***

Yes, good choice of words. "amazes"...It has amazed me too what small odd changes can do to effect the final sound. My experience has been that their are about 9 failures for 1 success. Putting the cardas cable into the mix was like putting in a brand new cartridge. Here comes the pessimist audiophile in me. I wonder if a used 1500 dollar cable would have done the same trick as the cardas in this context? Maybe...maybe not. Sometimes [i think i'm right when i say] synergy is $ sign blind.

Understanding/predicting electricity, "resonances" and price per performance ratio's is like thinking you know a women just by looking at her.

[Side questions: Is it bad for sound reproduction if my arm hum's slightly only when i touch it? 2. Does anyone hear "groove echo" on norah jones "the nearness of you"?]

Thanks...

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vertigo August 12, 2012 04:26

.

Thanks, Albert.

A little while after i posted i managed to acquire a luxman pd444. I moved my breuer arm and allaerts cartridge over to the luxman from my tweaked out lenco 78. I am in the middle of deciding which i think sounds better/best in my system and according to my personal tastes.

The luxman 444 is a direct drive quartz locked design and i am developing a better grasp from a musical enjoyment perspective about how GREAT speed accuracy can play a vital role in great lp playback. Listening and living with it for a while is persuading me/showing me the virtues of speed accuracy.

The luxman compared to my systemdek and lenco... is very neutral , not romantic and more true. With some careful tweaking i can dial in the luxman so it is very objective, clear, yet still musical and tonally neutral. Tonally neurtral like i've never heard it before! It is interestingly the first time i have been able to appreciate accuracy over a romantic sound.

I identified with your comment about "ghost imaging" even more so now that i've listened to the luxman for a couple weeks. Previous luxman 444 owners have described its sound as coming eerily close to imitating master tape playback regarding its speed. I guess what i am hearing is just that quality. It sounds very close to "perfect" ...speedwise ...that it makes playback sound very interesting in this regard. It forces me to rethink what constitutes good playback.

Now i want to try and dial in the tone of the table by experimenting possibly with panzerholz armboards, different mat materials and different footers for my amps. I've already made some headway. The luxman is pleasingly objective (sounds like an oxymoron) and if i can successfully add a dash of organicness and seductive textures to it, i think it just might easily come out winner of the three tables! (if it isn't already)

I can now too believe that cap replacement can effect sound. The luxman sounds better plugged into a vh audio hot box than it does in a standard receptacle so if this can yield positive results then i can believe fresh good caps can do the same.

Thanks,

John

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vertigo August 09, 2012 19:07

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That's cool that you went and visited the designer himself. I am very much enjoying my time with his tonearm design, with my jan allaerts and lenco. My experience with it has been similar as with the allaerts. They are sensitive and can sound superb when used they way they were designed to be used. Veer slightly away from that little window and the magic disappears.

I heard/saw in person my first sp10 mk2 yesterday. It was in a birchply only plinth with a sme 312 arm and a denon 103. I lowered the arm onto the record without the platter spinning and tapped on the plinth. It was a ringy plinth and probably didn't do justice to what the sp10 is more capable of. The rest of the system was tonally starved so i think i still have no real idea of what is or isn't possible with this table or how it compares with my tweaked lenco 78. I would be curious if it could be more musical to me in the context of the rest of my system.

The gentleman confided in me after about a 3 hour visit that he preferred his linn table. I tried to encourage him to give the sp10 another chance and that i was skeptical that he was hearing it in ideal conditions. Though i told him there is a possibility he still might prefer his linn even though the sp10 were in a good plinth.

I did the best i could with the poor listening conditions and just tried to hear through to at least hear how speed stable it was. It sounded very speed stable to me.

I guess for some audiophiles they put a high importance on speed stability. I know the sp10 is a very speed stable/accurate table, VERY! speed stable but i wonder how it does in other parameters in regard to the way we humans enjoy music.

With my lenco , in regard to speed accuracy ,as long as i don't detect something annoying or distracting, i never really think twice about its speed. I don't think twice about wether or not it is 0.001 or 0.02 accurate. Now i have a nice systemdek iX table that is belt driven that does suffer from audible problems. Like sax and piano decay sound unnatural, to the point that it detracts from the musical engagement. Interestingly on song tracks i might push the speed bar up (on the lenco) a bit because i prefer the song a bit faster. As long as whatever the speed is, does not go up and down in short frames of time so it is noticeable (and it doesn't) i don't think twice. So, for me, i don't really feel the need for a special outboard speed box. I have explored the idea of incorporating a variac so that i can find a zone where my motor creates less noise but that's about it. I do consider my system revealing enough to hear and appreciate speed accuracy, by the way.

I have a question for anyone. I am trying to understand how replacing capacitors on a POWER SUPPLY can SUBSTANTIALLY improve what finally comes through the speakers. That is, if you test the speed with a stock power supply and it reads 100 percent accurate then upgrade the power supply caps, re test and it reads , still, 100 percent accurate how can miniscule electrical value changes equal profound sonic changes? To my mind if its spinning at 33.33 before the cap upgrade and 33.33 after how can it be so important that it be so accurate to so many decimal points behind the first zero? At least from a musical perspective once the music has started?

My understanding is that gross or subtle speed inaccuracy will blur or even lose details of the music and soundstage so i don't knock those who see value in pursuing great speed accuracy and that's fine but i would like to say that to this audiophile a players tonal color and shadings, and expressiveness is even more important.

My guess is that the answer i will receive is that while a stock power supply is very accurate it is not AS accurate as a upgraded one. So we are talking about degrees here.

While i can easily understand how cap replacement in amps and preamps which are in the SIGNAL PATH can have a profound difference i guess i am a little bit skeptical about the degree to which a power supply cap replacement which purpose is to "only" spin the platter at 33.33 can really have a profound effect.

Can impeccable speed in a turntable effect its tonal colors? In my opinion very little. I would say that the materials the table is made of plays a large part in that.(and their quantities and qualities) and the table design approach. This will, in my opinion play a larger part on fundamentally whether or not you will like a table.

For example, the sonic difference between a sp10 2 and a 3 i would attribute to the 3's much heavier platter, its different materials, the mat, and power supply NOT so much to their differences in speed accuracy, which must be relatively miniscule. Their fundamental design approach is virtually identical so tonally it will sound very similar.

Thanks.

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vertigo May 25, 2012 20:29

RE: Also, some say the finger lift is a source of vibration and sounds better with it off.

As with a breuer arm.

(lots of interesting stuff on this thread)(thanks)

vertigo May 22, 2012 06:01